Dev Discussion #24 - Overgearing

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Comments

  • I think that a good system would be that you can use all weapons and armor but depending on the level there is an attribute penalty on the weapon and that as you level up it will go down, for example, you have a level 30 sword and you are level 10, so that sword instead of 100 attack and does holy damage will have a penalty that will put it only a little better than level ten weapons and the holy damage will be less or blocked until a certain level. You can use that weapon up to level 30, keeping the idea of leveling up to be able to use it and you will also have the reward for the effort to get it at a lower level and there would also be objects that reduce this penalty by 5 levels for example
  • nonameftwnonameftw Member, Settler
    edited November 12
    People here will give a lot of valid points against it some for. I just wanna mention that the idea of getting rid of the usual soulbind-technique that is prevelant in western mmorpg's stops a lot potential commerce that could happen.

    If crafters have to compete with old equipment it reduces the overall price of gear and makes it more accessible. It also is more of an investment for players than a sunk cost.

    In a game that has such a focus on commerce like AoC it would be a bold move to make gear tradable. It would be different and in my opinion potentially quite interesting if even the most rarest items could be traded by players.

    When it comes to level requirements for items there is hardly an argument against them imo. Other devs have struggled to balance a game over the years WITH soulbind and level requirements. Getting rid of both of them makes balancing hardly possible if gear actually improves your character (which is not a necessity). If the level 1 twink can kill lvl 30 mobs because of gear then that's just outside of intended gameplay isn't it ?

    That is not to say that twink items like the heirloom system from WoW should be banned. Giving players an incentive to twink is one way to give them an incentive to go out in the world. It will help newer players to find veteran mentors.
    The focus with things like this should be on convenience. It should not necessarily make the twinks stronger but make it easier for them to get through the content that the player already has experienced.
  • Twinking is simply the best thing ever, I love Anarchy online that the entire game revolves around twinking!

    as long as you can play the game normally without the need for twinking.

    but it's a nice thing to hunt for that EPIC gear for an alt or a friend or what ever
  • George BlackGeorge Black Member
    edited November 12
    I feel that high grade armor should cause a low lv character walk slowly (feel heavy effect).

    A high grade weapon should cause the low lv character to miss their target and massively burn their MP when using abilities.
  • I have no problem with low lv characters receiving good quality LOW LV GEAR from other players, as they still need to put the effort into leveling up and finding groups and get organized, in order to progress.
  • First of all, I prefer that the equipment is limited to the level of the character, however, I also like the idea that certain items appear that are rare that have a characteristic of skipping some levels for the equipment:

    For example, a ring for magicians that in addition to giving some statistics for this class, has the characteristic of jumping 5 levels, and when you have equipped that ring that is rare to get, you can also equip yourself with a tunic and staff that are up to 5 levels above your character.
  • Personally, I feel like being able to over gear a little bit can be fun. I'd like to preface this by saying that I only enjoy over leveled gear when it is *slightly* above my level. As an example, having a level 25 character with level 28 or 30 gear. Having over leveled gear like this, and making it rare for me, makes me feel like I found a lucky gem if it drops from a boss. This also lets me keep said piece of gear for a longer period of time until it becomes obsolete.
  • RaghRagh Member
    Imho I do love saving gear, cause it's cool or cause it's powerfull or cause I'd atached some roleplaying history to it.
    And I'd like having the option to have a Main Character in which I could farm, and spent tons of hours but If at some point I decide having a secondary character or want to try some other main arquetype build being able to equip it with the optimus equipment since the start.
    But that on the case there's some optimus leveling set or if there's a gear per level limitation that even if permits me have a strong leveling character, it's not OP compared to other similar levels.
    It's only a new character being optimous since the start thanks to the hard work of my main.
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  • I hope overgearing will NEVER be in this game. In WoW this KILLED the RPG flair of the leveling. What would a new player (or slow levelers) think if the best quest rewards are achieved and then one other dude is comeing with his omfgololzonk high level armor set with best in slot enchanted Weapon and kills them or their quest mobs in high speed? Low level pvp would be dead for new players (slow leveler) too. And NO, I do NOT think that the corrupted gear drobbing penalty would change anything. If some bored max level players want to troll and kill the fun they will just farm this gear over and again and continue to inflict this high damage to the RPG feeling during leveling.

    In addition this creates more work for a player who wants to twink. You always want to be best geared, and if there is a way to enhance your advantage in any scenario, players will do it. And do not come with your *insert evil word*-excuse to "jUsT dOnt UsE ThEm". You do not want to feel left behind, this does not work psychologically.

    I want the next gen MMO to be pure RPG for the players to immerse themselves in a high quality fantasy world. And not to see it **** by 98742 players with the same armor set during the long leveling process (in endgame its normal that many players walk around with the same gear, likely the BiS gear, no pun against that), which does crazy amounts of damage. And NO, cosmetics will do a flying *insert evil word* about it, because you will be able to identify the players with this armor sets by the damage they do to you, and the close to 0 damage you do to them. Then it is completely irrelevant how this stuff looks, you just "insert evil word" know what they would look like, if they would not spent money on microtransactions.

    If you implement this dog*insert evil word* overgearing, which was designed to increase the numbers in an engagement matrix for shareholders, you have a big argument against buying your product.

    PS: Yes I know, that I am emotional on this topic and I will not excuse it. I was thinking about to write this in a way, which would get me banned on the forums.

    PSS: And if you open a discussion on an LFG-tool I will like 99% get banned with by first post on it. xD
  • neuroguyneuroguy Member
    edited November 13
    I don't see a problem with it personally (barring one exception which I will go over below)... I don't like the idea of stringent level requirements for items when the game promotes trading and crafting etc. Ultimately though I think how much impact over-gearing may or should have is dependent on 2 things: how restrictive the game is for individual characters and how level gated/dependent the game's content is.

    Character Restrictions
    Depending on how restricted an individual character is from engaging with the game's content, the game may be more or less alt promoting. For example, the number of professions you can master on an individual character, or the number of social organizations you may be able to be a part of. If any single character is restricted in the number of these, they will be more incentivized to create alts and eventually leveling up alts will get very tedious (because keep in mind, this is still an MMO and you will be sinking a ton of time in your main already). So the more you promote making alts, or the more you restrict individual characters, the more you should allow over-gearing. Personally to me, it seems like with the lack of fast travel, literally wanting to explore the other parts of the world may be reason enough to want an alt in AoC. Add on profession restrictions, the other archetypes, race specific augments and content etc you have decent reason to roll alts and therefore I think the game's design should be fairly over-gearing friendly.

    Level Gating Content
    Many games use character level to gate content and to give you something to work towards such as dungeons or new zones. Since in Verra you are supposed to find less dangerous monsters near the road and more dangerous monsters up the mountain in ~every zone, you are not really restricted in geography by your level. Similarly open world dungeons don't seem to have a mechanism for hard level gating and Steven has already mentioned he doesn't like mechanisms that prevent you from taking on monsters many levels above you (scaling). I tend to agree, your level is a rough indicator of your power level but you should personally determine what kind of challenge you can and can't take on. The only time over-gearing may become a problem is in for example battle grounds if you group players simply by their level, but there are ways to combat this like normalizing gear, grouping based on level AND gearscore etc.

    Exception: Corruption
    The only thing to be weary of with over-gearing in my opinion, is how corruption is calculated. If the corruption you gain is scaled by level difference only, then over-gearing will be very controversial and problematic for world PvP & griefing. However, if you make corruption scale as a function of gear score or some other similar metric, then over-gearing should be fine given the game's design as explained above. In general, I think PvP is where over-gearing becomes controversial but otherwise I see no problem with it.

    Edit1: not saying you should be able to wear full end-game gear at lvl 1, obviously there should be level requirements to some capacity but I think they should be generous.

    Edit2: @Cellzar makes some great arguments against over-gearing below. I just think the level gating and character restrictions (described above) should be tuned according to the decision.
  • I think if overgearing is allowed, it should be minor (max of 5-10 levels above).
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  • SzoloSzolo Member, Founder
    edited November 16
    I am ok with overgearing a lower level character, until it stays within reasonable limits. In-game Items usually have a level requirement associated with them, or some skill that must be attained through a quest, and that solves the problem.
    However Ashes will theoretically feature a mostly unconstrained gaming world, so I could accept the notion of crafted items bearing no level requirements.
    As there is item attrition in Ashes, a high end item is not just az advantage, but also a disadvantage for the wielder. The items will not just be crafter from materials normaly unobtainable by the boosted character, but also (hopefully) require those high end materials for repairing. If somebody is willing to provide the necessary reagents for constantly repairing the affected item, it is his/her decision to "burning" the (relatively) valuable reagents in favor of that low level character.
    You ride that fine line of like everyone is about to die and you shall keep on casting, keep going, it awesome. Thats the best part of healing.
  • beaucheebeauchee Member
    edited November 12
    If done right, ''overgearing'' shouldn't be a problem at all. If you would give the Excalibur sword to a brand new adventurer, he still would not be god like and still not able to defeat dragons with it; I guess I'm trying to say that if the balance of character (stats) and items is done right I do not mind ''overgearing'' even if it might give a small edge to that player ( I think he deserves it for getting that Excalibur in the first place, how he uses it or whom he gives it to is entirely up to that player). I, myself, do not see the use of giving such a great weapon to a low level player when it would be much more efficient in the hands of a max level (proficient).

    If people are referring to ''overgearing'' to a broken mechanic where it gives an unfair advantage to a low level player, then I would not want this to be part of the game at all. (If a sword could cast one fireball per day if used by a mage that knows the fireball spell but the mechanic doesn't prevent a low level warrior from doing so...). To fix those kind of issues you can add minimum strength (or any stats) requirement, for example, justified by the weight of the sword (knowing that a lower level wouldn't have that strength). So that warrior could still use the sword but not capable to cast the fireball (lacking the skill or Int stat requirement).
  • I don't think many people like the idea of overgearing being a thing. The question comes down to how to prevent. Putting level or stat requirements is a good start. Having gear drop at your level when it drops also helps. But coming from eso which uses both of these systems it doesn't always work out. In ESO there is an Faction vs Faction instance called under 50. This instance is for newer players to fight other new players and to get their feet wet in pvp. The problem is you get smurfs that will grind out gear for each set of levels and they will play in this campaign until they get to max level 50. Once they do they will trade their gear into a bank, create a new character and redo the entire process again. This creates a toxic environment as newer players can't compete as they run far less optimal setups.

    When it comes to Ashes, there is no way to separate out pvp by level in open world combat. It's just not designed to be, which is fine but you can still address the main pain points. The main pain point in my opinion is the corruption system. What I would recommend is creating a system that gives people scores based on level and gear power. Base the amount of corruption gained on this score.
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  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Early Alpha One Tester
    When Heirloom armor (twink) in wow first was introduced it was fun, exciting, and made pvp really fun to do ALL THE TIME! However, in hindsight, it ruined the over feel and gameplay in my opinion. after four or five years, all in game gear became obsolete minus a ring or two.... (well until they made twink rings/necks too.

    there was never any need to buy/craft in game gear until the new expansion b/c the heirloom armor had best stats up until endgame, then you would just deposit your twink gear in bank for a newly made character and do process all over again. Also that significantly messed up how people looked. we all had to transmog our twink gear to look different.

    I want to not only feel the leveling process with my stats/points, but when it come to gear progression as well, i want 1-10 to look diff 11-20, 21-30 and so on, if i have twink gear i will feel bored and immersion breaking.

    P.S. it feel good, like a spike of Dopamine collecting a new head piece or chest piece after 2 to 3 levels.
  • SentSent Member
    Mmmh hard question this is.
    How much power comes from gear at max level?
    Should this ratio be maintained during leveling?

    I personally like having the power come from me, not my gear.
    I think a fair 50/50 balance between class and top tier gear is ok, and when in doubt err on the side of class. I'm talking about sheer numbers not player's skill.

    I can't see any reason why this balance shouldn't be maintained at every level.
  • kaincallaviskaincallavis Member
    edited November 13
    I told myself I would just reply with something short and sweet but as usual it got away from me... I hope some of you enjoy the reasonably short read anyway...

    TL;DR: efficiency bell curve with diminishing returns more severe based on level difference.

    Should a level 1 be able to equip/use a level 50 sword? Sure!!!
    Should a level 1 be able to equip/use a level 50 sword as efficiently/effectively as a level 50? Hell no.
    Hang with me here, I think you'll appreciate the specifics below...

    Don't restrict the players from doing what they want, but there should be practical limitations within the bounds of common sense...

    Logic:
    The irony of bringing up logic in a video game discussion is not lost on me.
    It takes practice to become good at anything.
    A random person picking up a bardiche or halberd... or crossbow - or any item for that matter and using it would probably not be incredibly effective with it unless it were your profession.
    Obviously, in the game there will be warriors; for example, that practice using a halberd. But we have to consider the other element to practice.

    Similar to how a modern marksman might not be very effective with a musket from the 1600's or even a ballista, a brand new (level 1) swordsman would probably not be very good with an uber high-level weapon.

    Taking this practice logic into account: note that there are 2 sides to this.
    1) Weapon type vs profession AND
    2) Practice (or level) vs the sophistication of the weapon (or weapon level)

    So a mage would not be the ideal sword user. (reference to example 1 above) But they could pick up and swing a sword.
    Likewise, an unpracticed (low level) miner would be able to utilize simple (low level) weapons like a shovel or a pickaxe but would be a lot less effective if they were using a bulldozer or blasthole drill for example.
    Specific to the game: A low level swordsman would not be as effective with a high level sword. barring the reality that a sword is a sword... video game logic dictates that a simple sword (low level) and a sophisticated sword (high level) would be similar to the metaphor above with a neophyte miner trying to use a blasthole drill...

    Solution:
    There needs to be diminishing returns.
    A level 10 can use a level 10 sword with 100% efficiency. Say the weapon has 10 attack. They can utilize all 10 attack with each swing.
    A level 10 could opt to use a level 15 sword but they are only 90% as efficient. The sword is complex but not so overwhelming that they have a hard time understanding the function. That level 15 sword might have 50 attack but best they can hope to utilize is 45 attack with each swing. Still a marked improvement! To compensate for the marked improvement maybe they are also a little less likely to hit the target, or they swing it a little slower...
    A level 10 could attempt to use a level 50 sword. But that is far more sophisticated than they are accustomed to... They would probably only be about 5% efficient with a level 50 sword. It might have 500 attack. but the best they can hope to utilize is about 25 attack with each swing... significantly less effective than the level 15 sword to which they would be a little more accustomed.

    If down-tweaking the direct effectiveness is not to your liking than you can adjust other parameters... such as hit-chance and speed... or all of the above.

    Obviously you guys can adjust the bell curve etc... You can math it out as much as you want. I just supply the idea. Not even a very original one... But it would be effective IMO.

    If battlegrounds based on level brackets are the concern then obviously the bell-curve would be pretty strict, that said, I think a fairly strict bell-curve is a good idea in general. If players want the best possible equipment for their level then they have to work harder than others their level to get it... Raiding level appropriate dungeons or having some of the best crafters make them the best versions of level appropriate gear available.
  • Most of my experience with twinking I saw was in battlegrounds for leveling which was divided into level brackets which just means you don't do BG's when you level unless you want to deal with that. In an open world sense I'm hoping the problem solves itself. Overgearing in open world if you plan on ganking may put a bounty on your head or get someone of higher level to come fight you in retaliation, which doesn't mean you'll lose but it's not in your favor. Outside of a controlled pvp level bracket I don't see where twinking would be a relevant thing to do since the goal of it is to maximize your gear for your level to dominate at that level range which doesn't mean much if a max level character can come and goomba stomp you. If you do it for PvE then you'll eventually outlevel the gear and you aren't really harming anyone but your own play experience.
  • RintaRinta Member
    edited November 13
    I have no problem with it as a concept, lower level character being able to use items obtained by high level crafting / boss items / etc.

    If only max level characters can equip the most luxurious equipment - that limits the ways the game can be played, while not really bringing in much. Yes, maybe a level 10 won't be able to kill level 20 - but level 30 still will, and death is death. Yes, maybe a level 10 alt will not kill a level 30 monster all by themselves, but they can still level significantly faster with superior knowledge of the game and with help of powerful friends who may, say, tank or pre-damage the monster for them. What next, forbid friends to help each other? :wink: This is supposed to be a multiplayer game after all.

    There are also many ways to play a game, where one can achieve a lot without necessarily levelling their character to the max. If one is a great merchant and earned the money in game to buy the legendary sword, didn't they earn the right to equip it? If someone purely focuses on crafting and doesn't like hitting things as much - who is to say they shouldn't be able to enjoy the fruit of their labour?

    This doesn't mean that level 1 character must necessarily be able to equip all items - some limits can still be implemented (although they don't have to be), just make sure it's not excessively strict.

    PS: I am biased because my favourite MMORPG Ragnarok Online (Classic version) had a very wide spread of level limitations on items (with some very strong items being available from early levels, and definitely what you would call "twinking", while some being locked behind mid-levels or specific stat requirements, etc.), and it was fun mechanics that totally worked and nobody had any problems with it. Admittedly it didn't have open world PvP, so who even knows how it would work if it did :neutral:

    PPS: Also, a strict gear progression in a game that encourages you to make alts is what theme parks do to keep "low level areas" populated, so that new players don't come in and see empty world. I suspect that many people who are strongly for it come from theme parks and never played a well designed free economy sandbox.

    PPPS: Also, what is the big difference between level 10 character getting a piece of strong equipment they haven't personally "earned", and a max level character getting the same? Maybe that max level character never does bossing and spends all their time sitting on the bench in the town square and chatting with passer bys, and suddenly they sport full boss gear because their friends gifted it to them. How does them being max level really makes a difference though?
  • Need more potions! and when you think you have enough, add a few more~
    lvl req's are fine imo

    I really doubt "twinking" will be a thing with a open world environment.
  • BSkittyBSkitty Member
    edited November 12
    Reserved for rant.
  • akabearakabear Member, Pioneer
    I thought some of New World`s approach to gear was good. When crafting, the crafter could make gear with a rating/score with varying grade bound with an upper/lower limit to the gear type itself and best scores produced by a high level craft skill. Further enhanced with the option to add a range of special items to the craft base to increase attribute chance and more material for grade increase chance..

    A great sink for materials that felt fair.
  • akabearakabear Member, Pioneer

    Lineage 2 offered underwear as a means to improve your armor without impacting what your visual was.

    BDO, I`m not so impressed with the need to have a gear for pvp and multiple separate gear for pve such as one for fishing, crafting, cooking, alchemy, gathering, farming etc..
  • Should lowlevel characters be able to equip higer level gear? HELL NO! Especially not in Ashes of Creation for multiple reasons.

    1) Economy
    After a few months everbody just uses highlevel gear. Not only twinks, but also new players, who got their euipment from buddys or guildmates, to help them level faster. This makes every piece of gear that isnt high/max level completly worthless. This will also effect the crafting system.
    Just look at the crafting system from WoW. Blacksmithing is completly useless beacuse nobody is gonna buy your crafted items.

    2) Open world PVP
    New players without highlevel gear wont stand a chance against other players on the same level that are well geared. They cant compete for anything and just gonna bite the dust over and over again.
    Doesnt sound like fun at all.

    3) Hitting max level to fast
    Geared out low level characters will hit the max level noticeably faster which causes them to think there isnt enough content. The whole 1 - 50 experience doesnt feel rewarding since you dont have that gear progression anymore.

    4)Zero character progression
    Characterlevels become pointless. Who cares if my mage gets +2 intelligence every level when my whole set of high level armor gives me instant +200. I wont see my character getting stronger every level, since Im already an absolute beast at level 1.

    5) Challenges
    Challenges like quests that require multiple players (which may help people to connect to others) will lose their meaning. The same thing for lower world bosses. Back in the day we needed 20 level 10s to kill that dragon. Today my maxed out level 5 twink can two-hit that dragon. Does this sound like fun to you, when every threat just becomes a big joke?

    There are a lot mor reasons but my rusty english gives me a headache. Just DONT give low characters higher level equip.
  • QuinQuin Member
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    Glorious Ashes community - it's time for another Dev Discussion! Dev Discussion topics are kind of like a "reverse Q&A" - rather than you asking us questions about Ashes of Creation, we want to ask YOU what your thoughts are.

    Our design team has compiled a list of burning questions we'd love to get your feedback on regarding gameplay, your past MMO experiences, and more. Join in on the Dev Discussion and share what makes gaming special to you!


    Dev Discussion #24 - Overgearing
    What’s your view on overgearing (aka "twinking")? Giving high(er) level equipment to low(er) level characters?

    Keep an eye out for our next Dev Discussion topic regarding boss difficulty!

    The question is always, "Will I have fun?" when you comit to any design change.

    Let me tell you about the game I played called "Darkfall"
    It was a full loot MMO that had no skill caps, no limit on what gear you bring to a fight and friendly fire.
    That game turned into a dumpster fire within 3 months because it was not fun.

    Having all your gear taken away made getting more a grind to farm the specific mats to make your armor.
    With no safe zones people would hover around banks constantly.
    Friendly fire forced every person to join very large guilds and roll a mage so that you could create suppressive fire and even then the enemies would siege outside protected times and take your holdings with 5 men.

    Should Twinking be in Ashes? Just about every player you ask that question will say, "Hell No"
    However your target audience in this case for an open world PvP game will mostly say Yes.

    My suggestion for this instance is to have gear that scales down to the level of the player so that you can have really good gear, but you wont be at a major advantage early on.

    The trick with a game like this when it comes to equipment is that equipment should be the key, but the character is the door. If scaling loot is too hard just make penalty version when a character is under leveled.
  • k3VNk3VN Member
    I think the question isn't really how we feel about overgearing, its how will the players abuse the system. The reality is, no matter what is done, players will seek to gain the most advantages in whichever way they can. "Twinking" in vanilla WoW was done only so that players could blast other players with impunity until there was a large enough group to fend them off or a higher level player came to take out the trash.

    My level 29 rogue in vanilla could routinely take out players 10 levels higher than him in 1v1, or one-shot equal level players with average gear, or take on groups of players in his level range. (though a lot of it had to do with the class admittedly.) It was funny at the time, but looking at it from a balancing perspective, I don't think those folks had much fun or found it very fair.

    Echoing a lot of the posts before this, if gear scales to level/character skill and provides a slight bonus over uncommon gear of equal level, then I think it should be fine, as long as it's for making your PvE experience a little bit easier. Giving some people an overwhelming advantage on their alts in PvP over someone with their first character just because they have played longer seems too much.

    Side note: Having gear be level dependant seems logical. I always liked getting some piece of gear and having that waiting for me as a reward for getting to the required level.

    Whatever is implemented, you gotta ask yourself first; How will this be abused? How can we curb that?
  • Overgearing is extremely necessary in an economy based game like AoC. Consider what Eve online would be if cooperation's were not constantly working on their titan ships. They would have nothing to work for, and nothing to use as a deterrent to keep people out of their space. The arms race would end, and the economy would suffer, and the game might die. AoC is not eve, but AoC is also not a standard theme park MMO. There needs to be a carrot on the stick to work for at all times. Overgearing is that carrot. At both low levels and end game. AoC seems to be using something very similar to the Lineage 2 over enchanting system as its carrot on the stick. What is great about this system is the risk versus reward involved in the system. You can enchant a weapon from +4 to +5, but you might loose the item. You are risking loosing the hard work that comes into making and enchanting the weapon. Some games with the enchanting system get this wrong by not having you lose the item in the process, which does not help the economy, and only diminishes the risk versus reward from the over enchanting system.

    When it comes to twinking. The first thing that must be said is that the world is never fair. If people are not overgeared they will for sure out number you in the open world. Having the ability to take a level 20 gear set and over enchant it to the point that it is a base line level 30 or 40 gear set is good for everyone on the server. Not only is it once again good for the economy, but it gives lower level characters a chance against capped toons. This is all one big open world, and taking away the ability to twink is only going to hurt low level players.

    The main argument against twinking would be that not everyone can afford to do it. Which is true. The solution is simple. AoC is a social game, Make friends. Get in a guild that can protect you and help you gear. You should never be alone. You and your guild should always be trying to twink or get the resources to twink. That is the life blood of both the economy and the game.

    I think the people that are against twinking and overgearing have not played a enough of a diversity of MMOs to truly understand what they are even arguing for.
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  • Gear should have a minimum level to use. Farming a BOE best in slot and giving it to a lower level alt character is not an issue. "Heirloom" gear was OP and allowed players to rapidly level up alts while blowing through content. "leveling gear" is not Twinking though...so long as it doesn't unbalance PvP there isnt an issue.

    I almost never seriously PvP on my main, but always have a twinked lvl 19 for serious PvP.
  • In a game like AoC where PvP is a giant part of the game, a core part of how you will be interacting with other players, this question is a different case than in other games. I enjoy the skill of crafting an account solely for pvp, giving it expensive gear you normally wouldn't see on a character of that level, to impress other pvpers id come across in fights and stomp noobs. The difference is, in ashes where PVP is not just something a percentage of people would be interacting with, a clan of under-leveled twinks or pures running around on a server could be seen and experienced as a roadblock, not just something to be feared and encountered in that subsection of the game. As long as combat is to the point where you can win some raid battles with worse gear than your opponents occasionally with RNG and skill management, twinking will not be an issue to the core experience of the game. There will always be a meta of the pvp purist, but allowing skill and subtle or not-so-subtle luck to topple an overconfident opponent is what makes it exciting to face one.
  • PercimesPercimes Member
    edited November 12
    The point of twinking is to make a character more powerful than it should be, or at least to be above what the average for its level is supposed to be. It's to skew the risk vs. reward mechanic.

    Either you do the same stuff a character of your level do, but at a lower risk, or you attempt something riskier for a better reward.

    The risk should not be diminished by overgearing. The greater the difference in level between a character and its gear is, the greater should be the chances of dropping the item. Gear should also degrade faster through combat/death (if you rely more on the gear than in your skill in using it, it takes the hit).
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