No login rewards:
Fomo
Useless trinkets taking inv space
Annoying marketing gimick. My reward is my gameplay.
Fair enough. Implementation of @Settra32's Activity Points system would be nice though; Maybe in the form of another aspect of the game, such as reputation/honor/achievement activity.
Yeah, that system would be great for some things, there just shouldn't be a need for a general reward structure over top of the reward structure that the content should come with.
i dont like log-in daily rewards.... but what if instead of daily it is loggin-in during an event? like: log-in during the last 2 weeks of december and you will get a snowman pet skin! i'd love that. And also, what about "mentor" systems like in wow? help a newcommer: he will get a xp buff and you will get a little bit of Embers
I don't like log-in daily rewards.... but what if instead of daily it is loggin-in during an event? like: log-in during the last 2 weeks of december and you will get a snowman pet skin! i'd love that, or instead of loggin-in just a questline
First of all, WOW stole the mentor system from FFXIV, which retained the mentor system from FFXI. It is a very old system. Every quality of life feature added in shadowlands nearly was something FFXIV had for years. Not really related to the conversation, but it bugs me that the WOW community acts like some of the stuff in shadowlands is this new amazing stuff never before seen in any other MMO.
Also, in my experience. The mentor system does not work well in modern MMOs. In FFXIV a lot of people call it the Burger king Crown. A derogatory term for people with the mentor icon next to their name, that can't help themselves, much less anyone else. Which sadly is more common than a mentor that is actually helpful.
As for the main course of your idea, I would not be upset if they gave limited skins for holiday events. They are devaluing their own cash shop by doing so, but if they wanted to do that, it is fine. I do take issue with XP buffs of any kind. To me it is a catch up mechanic, catch up mechanics should not exist in a game like AOC, it is too much of a slippery slope. I don't want it leading to other things that make leveling easy.
Another thing to consider, the Devs specifically might not be interested in a snowman pet. It may be considered something that is immersion breaking. I know they are very against school girl outfits and swimwear. This may fall into that category.
Not trying to poo poo over everything you said, just trying to be real.
Log-in rewards are excellent if your game is shallow.
How about making a game where logging in to play is its own reward?
Keep the game interesting rather than treating us like Pavlovian dogs by dangling shinies in front of our faces.
Also, in my experience. The mentor system does not work well in modern MMOs. In FFXIV a lot of people call it the Burger king Crown. A derogatory term for people with the mentor icon next to their name, that can't help themselves, much less anyone else. Which sadly is more common than a mentor that is actually helpful.
Well in my experience a friend irl introduce me to starcraft years ago and explained me how it worked, he gave me advice. who pros to watch and we played so much because i enjoyed playing it with him. he was my mentor and i got one of the best experiences... feel bad for your bad experience
Another thing to consider, the Devs specifically might not be interested in a snowman pet. It may be considered something that is immersion breaking. I know they are very against school girl outfits and swimwear. This may fall into that category.
Didn't know that philosophy, but instead of a snowman can be a thing you encounter in-game
Well in my experience a friend irl introduce me to starcraft years ago and explained me how it worked, he gave me advice. who pros to watch and we played so much because i enjoyed playing it with him. he was my mentor and i got one of the best experiences... feel bad for your bad experience
You don't need a in game system to form a constructive relationship like that. I am talking more specifically about the game putting in a system where people want to become mentors to get the extra benefits the game gives you for doing so. The people that are normally more helpful are the ones that generally just want to see others succeed. The Burger King crowns are just people who are in it for the extra rewards. Some of the worst players I have ever seen had the mentor crown. You will often find much better help asking a guild member.
The Burger King crowns are just people who are in it for the extra rewards. Some of the worst players I have ever seen had the mentor crown. You will often find much better help asking a guild member.
Well that is just a not so good system then, it can be improved. for example: let the mentee decide to give the reward or not to the mentor. that way you may not receive the gift if you are like that. obviosly if you did it ok you also may not receive it... but you can try again
Definitely a big no. Even if its just cosmetics. I don't want to be forced to log in everyday just for the sake of logging in. Aside for that, cosmetics are just as important as equipment etc. IMO.
If you've got your artists working on daily tat that you're not bothered about giving away for free, then they won't be able to work on the real stuff that people actually want.
Login rewards are a form of manipulation, and I don't think they have a place in a Subscription based game.
They are there to entice players to login, even though they don't want too. If you don't login, you miss out on something, which is the underlining 'threat'.
"If you don't play with the others, you'll miss out on the ice cream."
Players should WANT to login, not be bribed.
Login rewards are cheap tokens to make up for a lack of content/community.
Please don't cheapen the experience.
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NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Yeah after Toast made her post we knew it was going to have them.
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
Please pass our feedback on to whoever makes the decisions about this. We don't like it, and we'll be disappointed to see it, given the feedback we've given.
Ah well, I guess our feedback wasn't passed on, after all.
Please pass our feedback on to whoever makes the decisions about this. We don't like it, and we'll be disappointed to see it, given the feedback we've given.
Ah well, I guess our feedback wasn't passed on, after all.
So much for "listening to player feedback".
Like I say in most threads the devs will listen if it helps them
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
And indeed while forums are amazing for gathering feedback and thoughts on these kinds of things, we do always have to keep in mind that it's only a very small and super passionate subset of the community that will take the time to chime in and respond
Is all of twitch chat also too small & passionate?
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NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
And indeed while forums are amazing for gathering feedback and thoughts on these kinds of things, we do always have to keep in mind that it's only a very small and super passionate subset of the community that will take the time to chime in and respond
Is all of twitch chat also too small & passionate?
or the kickstarter/backers
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
I hope what I'm writing has not yet been written (sorry I haven't read through everything).
i am absolutly against daily quests and against login reward. that puts a subliminal pressure on having to go online every day to get the daily rewards.
in steven's interview with summit1G and shroud, steven mentioned something about seasons that are 6 months long. then why not a series of season quests. the more percent of the season quests you have completed at the end of the season, the higher the reward.
This encourages you to play in order to get the best possible reward, but you can organize your playing time yourself and don't feel pressured to be online all the time. this idea can of course also be tried for shorter periods of time. In my opinion, it should never be less than a week.
I do have to say, if Ashes ends up with a log in reward system in conjunction with a cash shop, anyone that doesn't know better would automatically assume the game is getting set to go f2p.
Even some people that do know better would suspect as much.
While many days will pass on Verra where the inhabitants will spend sunrise to sunset in mundane existence, many go above and beyond, and in doing so, open a tiny channel to the wellspring of magic flowing from what came before and through to what comes after. While fairly intangible in the physical world, these small motes of magical energy correlate to the events of the world, most directly tied the planes above where the magic flows most freely--basically each real-world season. These motes of energy are mostly intangible, though when one has accumulated enough of them, they start to take form. As more are gathered, this form becomes more coherent, yet still ever-shifting and ambiguous, until the form is clear enough that a Verran can reach into their understanding of accumulated magic to pull forth a shard of that magic into a form that can be perceived in Verra. The temporal and flowing nature of this shard is one that prevents it from carrying power, but in the same way it is shielded from power exposed to it, resulting in that itemized shard of planar wellspring magic being seen and worn but otherwise avoiding interaction and influence in world or plane where it is used.
As conditions in the planes change, the focus and power of the motes is different, often increasing in quantity but experiencing dilution, resulting in a similar net effect to those who can collect them. Older motes can often be split into the newer ones, likewise newer ones can be consolidated into older motes. Some vessels are more adept at capturing motes than others, but the wellspring diffuses its power as evenly as possible--and like jars left out in the rain, they will not fill at the same rate, but when they are full, no more will be obtained for that period of magical events. This does not affect the gathering of motes of different forms, including similar motes that have become diluted since the last gathering opportunity.
Outside of lore, this is meant to be part of a weekly login system. For the first run of each season, once a week, for 13 weeks, every 15 minutes of non-idle gameplay correlates into 1 Mote Shard Equivalent (MSE) earned, and up to 10 MSE can be earned per week. Any MSE missed from past weeks can still be earned afterwards, at a rate of 1 hour of play per MSE, until the season has passed. The maximum for the first round of seasons is 60, where 50 MSE is enough to get all the aesthetic items for the season.
Every time a season returns, the new form of motes are earned at (Year+1)*Motes rate, which is the same MSE because all items now cost 2x the rates of the year before. It is possible to convert motes from the previous years, without affecting the seasonal mote earning cap, at a correlating MSE rate. So if a year 1 Wellspring Raindrop is converted to a Tear 3 Wellspring Dewdrop, 1 Raindrop = 3 Dewdrops. Likewise if a player has an excess of Dewdrops and was 2 Raindrops away from getting a Year 1 item they missed, they can convert 6 Dewdrops to complete the transaction. The main reason for mote dilution is to use bigger numbers over time convey to a sense of progress and change, but otherwise 1 for 1 MSE can be kept consistent so the whole MSE and conversion system doesn't add extra confusion. I suppose it also allows for more fine-grain pricing as the event goes on, where year 1 may have 10MSE for the "all weapon skins" bundle, which a future event may price each one out individually at less than 1 MSE apiece for individual weapon skins.
MSE should be low enough per item to let players start getting them within the first week, where more grand items like skins may cost 10+, whereas single item type skins or furniture items cost 1 or 2, or maybe come in a bundle for 5 or 10. This way players can start showing off their earnings fairly early on, which will encourage other players to get active and play at least up to the weekly minimums, or end up working hard in the final weeks to make up for lost time.
While I know the powers that be are fans of exclusivity, I believe this provides the exclusivity desired, while giving players a slight amount of anti-FOMO power with longevity. For a player who missed aesthetics from logins in the first year, they should be able to earn those and all aesthetics along the way within 4 years, if they don't miss a single week of mote earning. Those who are less dedicated or come in much later will have a tougher time catching up to the wardrobe of veteran players, and a player coming in at the 3 year mark might never catch up. Considering how long the longest MMOs run and still get new players, seeing a lot of new players after 3+ years should be completely expected for the game.
"Loyalty Awards" seem better to me, than "Login Rewards"
Rather than getting X-item every day by logging into the game ....
Player's can get X-item per months of subscriptions they've paid/played. You are rewarded for your monthly loyalty to the game, and not subconsciously forced to log in each day for fear of 'missing out' on a reward.
I think Final Fantasy 14 has a similar system set up for Friend Recruitment program (both friends get to pick a gift based on months of subscription paid/time-passed playing).
Steven Sharif is my James Halliday (Anorak)
“That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.”
-HPL
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NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
No matter what you call it it's still manipulative as it add FOMO to the game
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
As long as it doesn't force consecutive day logins and it can be achieved without logging in every single day of the year. If it's something reasonable like 70~100 logins in a year I think it's fair. Have the rewards being general convenient stuff like inventory/storage expansion and have some rare cosmetics. As long as nothing OP or balance impacting is a reward and I don't feel like it's a chore to make sure I sign in every day I like it.
"Loyalty Awards" seem better to me, than "Login Rewards"
Rather than getting X-item every day by logging into the game ....
Player's can get X-item per months of subscriptions they've paid/played. You are rewarded for your monthly loyalty to the game, and not subconsciously forced to log in each day for fear of 'missing out' on a reward.
I think Final Fantasy 14 has a similar system set up for Friend Recruitment program (both friends get to pick a gift based on months of subscription paid/time-passed playing).
Sounds too close to tying the acquisition of a reward to paying real money...
...and since everyone playing will get the reward, doesn't it just become a meaningless participation trophy?
In the end, calling it loyalty is marketing - it's still just manipulation.
why not something like weekly login counts. for every week you get online in a row you get a reward. so a total per year is 52 login weeks. with this you are not forced to be online every day but only every week at least once...
or a system with weekly login counts but it dont need to be in a row. for example the count of login weeks per season (6 month). so the max. login weeks per season are 26 weeks. if you login 20 of the 26 weeks you have logged in 77% of the 26 weeks and get 77% of the max. reward.
but that is maybe not fair for people which play 20 weeks every day if another player loggs in once per week for 20 weeks and gets the same reward...
"Loyalty Awards" seem better to me, than "Login Rewards"
Rather than getting X-item every day by logging into the game ....
Player's can get X-item per months of subscriptions they've paid/played. You are rewarded for your monthly loyalty to the game, and not subconsciously forced to log in each day for fear of 'missing out' on a reward.
I think Final Fantasy 14 has a similar system set up for Friend Recruitment program (both friends get to pick a gift based on months of subscription paid/time-passed playing).
Sounds too close to tying the acquisition of a reward to paying real money...
...and since everyone playing will get the reward, doesn't it just become a meaningless participation trophy?
In the end, calling it loyalty is marketing - it's still just manipulation.
It would be a meaningless participation trophy for the first few years.
However, thenlonger the game is live the rarer the newer rewards will be.
EQ2 had a system like this, and the 10 year rewards were *very* rare for a long time.
"Loyalty Awards" seem better to me, than "Login Rewards"
Rather than getting X-item every day by logging into the game ....
Player's can get X-item per months of subscriptions they've paid/played. You are rewarded for your monthly loyalty to the game, and not subconsciously forced to log in each day for fear of 'missing out' on a reward.
I think Final Fantasy 14 has a similar system set up for Friend Recruitment program (both friends get to pick a gift based on months of subscription paid/time-passed playing).
Sounds too close to tying the acquisition of a reward to paying real money...
...and since everyone playing will get the reward, doesn't it just become a meaningless participation trophy?
In the end, calling it loyalty is marketing - it's still just manipulation.
It would be a meaningless participation trophy for the first few years.
However, thenlonger the game is live the rarer the newer rewards will be.
EQ2 had a system like this, and the 10 year rewards were *very* rare for a long time.
I really liked how WoW sent out a statue for its loyal players who were with them for 10 years - but what I liked about it was that it was a surprise rather than a known reward that could have the effect of incentivising subscribing or logging in.
Edit: or at least I think the 10 year statue was a surprise
Comments
As with others though, I don't see the point in an additional reward system to be always running.
Something like this may be all good for a holiday event or some such, but I just don't see the need as a general system.
Yeah, that system would be great for some things, there just shouldn't be a need for a general reward structure over top of the reward structure that the content should come with.
Also, in my experience. The mentor system does not work well in modern MMOs. In FFXIV a lot of people call it the Burger king Crown. A derogatory term for people with the mentor icon next to their name, that can't help themselves, much less anyone else. Which sadly is more common than a mentor that is actually helpful.
As for the main course of your idea, I would not be upset if they gave limited skins for holiday events. They are devaluing their own cash shop by doing so, but if they wanted to do that, it is fine. I do take issue with XP buffs of any kind. To me it is a catch up mechanic, catch up mechanics should not exist in a game like AOC, it is too much of a slippery slope. I don't want it leading to other things that make leveling easy.
Another thing to consider, the Devs specifically might not be interested in a snowman pet. It may be considered something that is immersion breaking. I know they are very against school girl outfits and swimwear. This may fall into that category.
Not trying to poo poo over everything you said, just trying to be real.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
How about making a game where logging in to play is its own reward?
Keep the game interesting rather than treating us like Pavlovian dogs by dangling shinies in front of our faces.
i have never played final fantasy, i just said an example. no need to generalize me over a community because it bugs you.
Well in my experience a friend irl introduce me to starcraft years ago and explained me how it worked, he gave me advice. who pros to watch and we played so much because i enjoyed playing it with him. he was my mentor and i got one of the best experiences... feel bad for your bad experience
Didn't know that philosophy, but instead of a snowman can be a thing you encounter in-game
me neither
Just gonna pop a quick vote for No in here.
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/47344/daily-quests-yes-or-no/p1
That's the old thread if you would like to know more.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
You don't need a in game system to form a constructive relationship like that. I am talking more specifically about the game putting in a system where people want to become mentors to get the extra benefits the game gives you for doing so. The people that are normally more helpful are the ones that generally just want to see others succeed. The Burger King crowns are just people who are in it for the extra rewards. Some of the worst players I have ever seen had the mentor crown. You will often find much better help asking a guild member.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
Well that is just a not so good system then, it can be improved. for example: let the mentee decide to give the reward or not to the mentor. that way you may not receive the gift if you are like that. obviosly if you did it ok you also may not receive it... but you can try again
"We estimate we can sell up to 80% of an individual's visual field, before inducing seizures."
Too much clutter on my HUD makes me anxious.
Steven Sharif is my James Halliday (Anorak)
“That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.”
-HPL
They are there to entice players to login, even though they don't want too. If you don't login, you miss out on something, which is the underlining 'threat'.
"If you don't play with the others, you'll miss out on the ice cream."
Players should WANT to login, not be bribed.
Login rewards are cheap tokens to make up for a lack of content/community.
Please don't cheapen the experience.
Ah well, I guess our feedback wasn't passed on, after all.
So much for "listening to player feedback".
Like I say in most threads the devs will listen if it helps them
Is all of twitch chat also too small & passionate?
or the kickstarter/backers
i am absolutly against daily quests and against login reward. that puts a subliminal pressure on having to go online every day to get the daily rewards.
in steven's interview with summit1G and shroud, steven mentioned something about seasons that are 6 months long. then why not a series of season quests. the more percent of the season quests you have completed at the end of the season, the higher the reward.
This encourages you to play in order to get the best possible reward, but you can organize your playing time yourself and don't feel pressured to be online all the time. this idea can of course also be tried for shorter periods of time. In my opinion, it should never be less than a week.
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Even some people that do know better would suspect as much.
As conditions in the planes change, the focus and power of the motes is different, often increasing in quantity but experiencing dilution, resulting in a similar net effect to those who can collect them. Older motes can often be split into the newer ones, likewise newer ones can be consolidated into older motes. Some vessels are more adept at capturing motes than others, but the wellspring diffuses its power as evenly as possible--and like jars left out in the rain, they will not fill at the same rate, but when they are full, no more will be obtained for that period of magical events. This does not affect the gathering of motes of different forms, including similar motes that have become diluted since the last gathering opportunity.
Outside of lore, this is meant to be part of a weekly login system. For the first run of each season, once a week, for 13 weeks, every 15 minutes of non-idle gameplay correlates into 1 Mote Shard Equivalent (MSE) earned, and up to 10 MSE can be earned per week. Any MSE missed from past weeks can still be earned afterwards, at a rate of 1 hour of play per MSE, until the season has passed. The maximum for the first round of seasons is 60, where 50 MSE is enough to get all the aesthetic items for the season.
Every time a season returns, the new form of motes are earned at (Year+1)*Motes rate, which is the same MSE because all items now cost 2x the rates of the year before. It is possible to convert motes from the previous years, without affecting the seasonal mote earning cap, at a correlating MSE rate. So if a year 1 Wellspring Raindrop is converted to a Tear 3 Wellspring Dewdrop, 1 Raindrop = 3 Dewdrops. Likewise if a player has an excess of Dewdrops and was 2 Raindrops away from getting a Year 1 item they missed, they can convert 6 Dewdrops to complete the transaction. The main reason for mote dilution is to use bigger numbers over time convey to a sense of progress and change, but otherwise 1 for 1 MSE can be kept consistent so the whole MSE and conversion system doesn't add extra confusion. I suppose it also allows for more fine-grain pricing as the event goes on, where year 1 may have 10MSE for the "all weapon skins" bundle, which a future event may price each one out individually at less than 1 MSE apiece for individual weapon skins.
MSE should be low enough per item to let players start getting them within the first week, where more grand items like skins may cost 10+, whereas single item type skins or furniture items cost 1 or 2, or maybe come in a bundle for 5 or 10. This way players can start showing off their earnings fairly early on, which will encourage other players to get active and play at least up to the weekly minimums, or end up working hard in the final weeks to make up for lost time.
While I know the powers that be are fans of exclusivity, I believe this provides the exclusivity desired, while giving players a slight amount of anti-FOMO power with longevity. For a player who missed aesthetics from logins in the first year, they should be able to earn those and all aesthetics along the way within 4 years, if they don't miss a single week of mote earning. Those who are less dedicated or come in much later will have a tougher time catching up to the wardrobe of veteran players, and a player coming in at the 3 year mark might never catch up. Considering how long the longest MMOs run and still get new players, seeing a lot of new players after 3+ years should be completely expected for the game.
Rather than getting X-item every day by logging into the game ....
Player's can get X-item per months of subscriptions they've paid/played. You are rewarded for your monthly loyalty to the game, and not subconsciously forced to log in each day for fear of 'missing out' on a reward.
I think Final Fantasy 14 has a similar system set up for Friend Recruitment program (both friends get to pick a gift based on months of subscription paid/time-passed playing).
Steven Sharif is my James Halliday (Anorak)
“That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.”
-HPL
Sounds too close to tying the acquisition of a reward to paying real money...
...and since everyone playing will get the reward, doesn't it just become a meaningless participation trophy?
In the end, calling it loyalty is marketing - it's still just manipulation.
or a system with weekly login counts but it dont need to be in a row. for example the count of login weeks per season (6 month). so the max. login weeks per season are 26 weeks. if you login 20 of the 26 weeks you have logged in 77% of the 26 weeks and get 77% of the max. reward.
but that is maybe not fair for people which play 20 weeks every day if another player loggs in once per week for 20 weeks and gets the same reward...
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FAQ Channel AoC Discord
AoC Support&FAQ Forum
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It would be a meaningless participation trophy for the first few years.
However, thenlonger the game is live the rarer the newer rewards will be.
EQ2 had a system like this, and the 10 year rewards were *very* rare for a long time.
I really liked how WoW sent out a statue for its loyal players who were with them for 10 years - but what I liked about it was that it was a surprise rather than a known reward that could have the effect of incentivising subscribing or logging in.
Edit: or at least I think the 10 year statue was a surprise