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Login rewards MEGATHREAD

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Comments

  • Lore DynamicLore Dynamic Member, Alpha Two
    Vhaeyne wrote: »

    As long as it don't pop up when you log in. I really hate when a game bugs me the second I load it up. If there was a separate window to manually bring it up. I would for sure use that. It would be even better if it was on a website so I could bring it up on a second monitor.

    This drove me nuts also in other MMOs.
    I remember BDO & SWTOR being particularly annoying with its various pop-up windows. >_<
    So immersion-breaking.


    Steven Sharif is my James Halliday (Anorak)

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    And with strange aeons even death may die.”

    -HPL
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I prefer no log in rewards.

    It's a little immersion breaking for me to just be rewarded for logging in. It's another reminder that it's a game you are logging into.

    Probably the biggest thing though is I don't like being pressured to log in and how i feel behind if a miss logging in.
  • ThePhilosophileThePhilosophile Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Login rewards should be something special or for merit. Additionally, they should not be a scheduled type thing (random if you are gonna have them) or if they are scheduled they should be like anniversary events.

    Example of cool login rewards are as follows:
    /played = 365 days. A mount or a pet would be a cool reward for a player as a thank you from the devs for playing the game (obviously this shouldn't be written anywhere it would just be a nice surprise you would receive when you log in.) Mount or Pet could be a randomly generated shop item or it could be a unique mount to show prestige, up to the devs on that (I'd prefer the later, just make it something really cool and shiny)

    Game launch anniversary rewards: nothing extreme, maybe an xp boost for a weekend for alts nothing that affects the economy.

    Login rewards should always and I repeat ALWAYS BE USED SPARINGLY. consistent or daily rewards is a sign of a dying game or desperation on the side of the devs.
  • No.

    In my case, "forcing" me to log in or do diaries is the trigger in my brain to see a game I enjoy as a chore I would preffer not to do.
  • XenotorXenotor Member, Alpha Two
    Big No.
    People allready have stated enough reasons they suck.
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  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited November 2020
    Simplistically, probably no.

    However, they may perhaps fulfill some roles in certain situations. ie as marketing to get encourage / benefit a player to return to the game after some absence.

    An anniversary gift, to say thank you for being in game for X years.
  • TyranthraxusTyranthraxus Member, Alpha Two
    edited November 2020
    I said this on the discord earlier when it was brought up, but I might as well repeat it here. Daily login rewards are there to perpetuate the skinner box that keeps players trapped in a game long after they have stopped enjoying it. They have a single purpose - to condition you into a routine of logging in every single day.

    Once I've had a chance to do more research on the subject I plan on doing a video about all the psychological techniques mmorpgs use, in order to educate players on what is happening. Once you know about them, they become far less effective. The amount of psychological manipulation modern games use on their players is quite frankly disgusting in my opinion.

    Well-stated! Daily quests for minor rewards such as consumables? YES!

    Log in and immediately get something for nothing? NO!

    That said, yours truly has nothing against Veteran Rewards. In-fact, the hours-played total Lt mentioned seems even more-reasonable than the more-traditional MMO habit of rewarding just having been subscribed for so long.
  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I said this on the discord earlier when it was brought up, but I might as well repeat it here. Daily login rewards are there to perpetuate the skinner box that keeps players trapped in a game long after they have stopped enjoying it. They have a single purpose - to condition you into a routine of logging in every single day.

    Once I've had a chance to do more research on the subject I plan on doing a video about all the psychological techniques mmorpgs use, in order to educate players on what is happening. Once you know about them, they become far less effective. The amount of psychological manipulation modern games use on their players is quite frankly disgusting in my opinion.

    Well-stated! Daily quests for minor rewards such as consumables? YES!

    Log in and immediately get something for nothing? NO!

    That said, yours truly has nothing against Veteran Rewards. In-fact, the hours-played total Lt mentioned seems even more-reasonable than the more-traditional MMO habit of rewarding just having been subscribed for so long.

    Daily quests are just as bad and create meaningless time dumps in addition to making the whole experience into a Skinner box.

    No dailies. No chores. Just let the world exist and have sensible tasks players can choose from to advance their characters.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    This must be the only unanimus topic so far. I am surprised and happy about it.
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    Hahaha, yes. Now there's something we ALL agree on, I hope it gets some attention from the big bosses!
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    This must be the only unanimus topic so far. I am surprised and happy about it.
    Very, very good point.

    Regardless of how small a minority the forum people might be in comparison to the entire customer-base, there is almost nothing that everyone agrees on. We bicker and argue and attack each other over everything. This is the first time in a long time I’ve seen a substantive opinion expressed with no objections from anyone.
     
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  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    This must be the only unanimus topic so far. I am surprised and happy about it.

    Agreed. Good thread, George.
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  • HellfarHellfar Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited November 2020
    Noaani wrote: »
    Second, players shouldn't ever feel punished for taking a day off to take their significant other out for dinner, or to spend an evening with their children.

    I definitely understand how these types of login rewards that only ramp up if you log in consistently can lead to potential "feelsbad" moments just for living your real life too. However, I've seen some games implement them where they just count up every time you log in, regardless of how long it's been since your last login - so it was more about rewarding you for overall time played. More like a "thank you for being a loyal friend" vs. "you MUST log in every day to get the greatest goodies". I'd be interested to hear more on what folks think about a system built more like this instead :smiley:
    Noaani wrote: »
    Someone that is able to spend 2 blocks of 7 hours a week in the game should not be at any disadvantage to someone that is able to spend 7 blocks of 2 hours a week in the game.

    Keeping this in mind and expanding further on the above, what if it was just based on your total time played in-game? So that every certain hours of playtime (regardless of consistency of login) you got a nice little gift?

    Hey Toast, I support the idea of being rewarded based on the amount of /played time on your account, but instead of a flashy notification appearing on your screen when this occurs, I'd rather just have it low-key sent to my mailbox.

    I appreciated how WoW just silently sent you in-game mail without trying to grab your full attention. If I wanted to see if I had unread mail, I would look for the mail icon on the mini map UI on my own terms.

    In comparison, even though I enjoy Guild Wars 2, it's flashy notification and reward systems can get annoying after a while and tend to break immersion.

    If the long-term rewards are strictly cosmetic I think this would be fine. I do not agree with the notion of daily log-in rewards.
  • unphazdunphazd Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Nagash wrote: »
    The way you worded it sounds like they will be in game
    CROW3 wrote: »
    That's the way I read Toast's response as well. I would be interested in understanding more about why (e.g. what are they trying to achieve), considering the near-uniform reaction above (knowing this isn't a scientific sample size).

    I wasn't meaning to imply as much, I was just providing an alternate angle for the discussion as it seemed like lots of folks here were so uniformly against it, and I wanted to shake ya up a bit ;)

    And indeed while forums are amazing for gathering feedback and thoughts on these kinds of things, we do always have to keep in mind that it's only a very small and super passionate subset of the community that will take the time to chime in and respond <3

    I'm not a fan of pop up windows and it's negative effect on immersion it really depends on how the rewards are implemented.

    Imagine a system being built on some form of lore. Like a gift from the Gods for divine node dwellers, some form of research feedback package for scientific nodes or dividends paid for economic nodes and so on... The scope for ideas is wide and these potential rewards will be best suited being hard wired into the game mechanics and lore rather than appearing as some kind of gimmicky output.

    So big NO on daily rewards, they also come off as more of a 'held prisoner' tool than a measurement of devotion. A person logging in for 1 minute on a day they didn't want to play the game would potentially get the same rewards as a person waking up eagerly to dive in 8 hours deep for the day.
    Rewards based on a more detailed increment of playtime would then need to be fairly balanced between those who have 1000's of hours to play the game versus those who don't.
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  • KhronusKhronus Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Never
  • RavudhaRavudha Member
    edited November 2020
    Noaani wrote: »
    Second, players shouldn't ever feel punished for taking a day off to take their significant other out for dinner, or to spend an evening with their children.

    I definitely understand how these types of login rewards that only ramp up if you log in consistently can lead to potential "feelsbad" moments just for living your real life too. However, I've seen some games implement them where they just count up every time you log in, regardless of how long it's been since your last login - so it was more about rewarding you for overall time played. More like a "thank you for being a loyal friend" vs. "you MUST log in every day to get the greatest goodies". I'd be interested to hear more on what folks think about a system built more like this instead :smiley:
    Noaani wrote: »
    Someone that is able to spend 2 blocks of 7 hours a week in the game should not be at any disadvantage to someone that is able to spend 7 blocks of 2 hours a week in the game.

    Keeping this in mind and expanding further on the above, what if it was just based on your total time played in-game? So that every certain hours of playtime (regardless of consistency of login) you got a nice little gift?

    I feel that the reward for overall time played is already there - it's more character progress.

    The other thing is time played doesn't necessarily equate to loyalty. The person who uses 5 out of their 10 spare hours a week to play is showing much more dedication than the person playing for 15 hours who has 50 free hours in a week.

    Personally, from a design perspective, I don't like these kinds of rewards systems because they come off as gimmicky and are often a cheap substitution for real content rewards. If AoC goes as planned, I don't think it needs this extra stuff; I'll be happy being rewarded in the game itself.
  • ChimeChime Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Eh, no. BDO is a prime example of why not to have daily rewards, it floods the screen and just gets annoying.
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  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited November 2020
    Chime wrote: »
    Eh, no. BDO is a prime example of why not to have daily rewards, it floods the screen and just gets annoying.

    No1 offender of too much going on.
    I hate everything bdo does when it comes to UI windows.
    I made this topic when I logged in bdo a few days ago.
  • RavudhaRavudha Member
    edited November 2020
    Chime wrote: »
    Eh, no. BDO is a prime example of why not to have daily rewards, it floods the screen and just gets annoying.

    No1 offender of too much going on.
    I hate everything bdo does when it comes to UI windows.
    I made this topic when I logged in bdo a few days ago.

    BDO is the ultimate offender I was thinking of when replying to this post too.
  • XenotorXenotor Member, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    Second, players shouldn't ever feel punished for taking a day off to take their significant other out for dinner, or to spend an evening with their children.

    I definitely understand how these types of login rewards that only ramp up if you log in consistently can lead to potential "feelsbad" moments just for living your real life too. However, I've seen some games implement them where they just count up every time you log in, regardless of how long it's been since your last login - so it was more about rewarding you for overall time played. More like a "thank you for being a loyal friend" vs. "you MUST log in every day to get the greatest goodies". I'd be interested to hear more on what folks think about a system built more like this instead :smiley:
    Noaani wrote: »
    Someone that is able to spend 2 blocks of 7 hours a week in the game should not be at any disadvantage to someone that is able to spend 7 blocks of 2 hours a week in the game.

    Keeping this in mind and expanding further on the above, what if it was just based on your total time played in-game? So that every certain hours of playtime (regardless of consistency of login) you got a nice little gift?

    Lets say there is Guy A who only can play 2 hours each day.
    Then there is Guy B that can play 8 Hours each day.
    Both spend the maximum amount of time at the game showing their loyalty.
    But Guy B would get more rewards if its based on time played.
    If its based on daily login then Guy C who only can play 2 times a week for 7 hours each will not get the rewards.

    In the end, no matter how small the rewards will always be something you have to keep up with the top.
    Even if its cosmetic then people would feel like they have thrown money out by not login in every day.

    So please just leave them be.
    Give us enough to do without daily login rewards. You are already on the right track for that.
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  • VanqorVanqor Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Please, for the love of god, stay away from the whole "daily" concept.

    Remember, the whole purpose of a "login reward" is not to reward players that already play consistently, it is a strong psychological manipulation technique to make people log in even when they don't want to play, by creating a strong need to get the reward or else missing out. It's there to synthetically inflate player numbers, and to make you continue to spend more money on cosmetics/sub/whatever.

    Ashes is all about "making MMOs great again". "Again" implies that some aspects of MMOs used to be better. Know what? A central aspect of MMOs in the past was that to get a reward, you actually have to put in some work.

    Lastly, even from a business standpoint, these types of schemes makes much less sense in a subscription based, sandbox MMO, compared to a F2P themepark.


    P.S. Regarding Toast's comment, the only type of "loyalty reward" I don't think is utter trash are the type of anniversary rewards that some people have mentioned already. Like, OK, it's 1 year since you created your first character, here's a freebie.

  • One more vote for NO, for the exact same reasons in Noaani's post.

    And drawing from my own experience, when I was really into an MMO, I logged in almost everyday anyway - the gaming experience itself was the login reward (wow & ff14).

    And when I felt like taking a long break from the game, login rewards would usually keep me logging in -> logging out immediately for a while, and then eventually I would still stop logging in as that felt more & more like a chore.
  • FliPFliP Member, Alpha Two
    Login Rewards give players an incentive to log in and most likely keep playing.

    BDO has a fairly decent login reward system:
    - a main login reward which runs for a month, with rewards getting better the more days you log in
    - timed login rewards (get login rewards after being logged in for X minutes in a day)
    - milestone rewards (get rewarded for being online for X amount of hours in total)

    Having such rewards is certainly a positive counter to any potential P2W accusations if you get a possibility to earn certain Pay for Convenience items through milestones.

    It is certainly not needed to have any login rewards or milestones, but players surely appreciate free stuff.
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  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I definitely understand how these types of login rewards that only ramp up if you log in consistently can lead to potential "feelsbad" moments just for living your real life too. However, I've seen some games implement them where they just count up every time you log in, regardless of how long it's been since your last login - so it was more about rewarding you for overall time played. More like a "thank you for being a loyal friend" vs. "you MUST log in every day to get the greatest goodies". I'd be interested to hear more on what folks think about a system built more like this instead.
    Yep. Wizard101's Dailies are like this.
    Quick task that can be completed in less than 20 minutes.
    The rewards are basically cosmetics.
    And it resets after 30 tasks have been completed rather than resetting if you skip a day.
    Easy to ignore if you want to.

  • McShaveMcShave Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    No to login rewards. I'm even hesitant to have daily quests in the game.
  • AlhionAlhion Member
    edited December 2020
    A log-in/participation-based rewards system was the largest topic of discussion in today's stream.

    How would you like to see a log-in rewards/participation system implemented, if at all?


    @Settra32 posted another thread with an idea that, so far, is my absolute favorite -
    Settra32 wrote: »
    ...In the system, we would have Activity Points(i will use AP from this point forward) which calculates the amount of time and effort you've spent on the activities the developers want you to steer into so as to make you explore the length of their game. Let's say that, for a rough draft, the Monthly Maximum of AP a player can get is 30000 AP. This would mean that you would need to contribute a minimum of 1000 AP everyday to reach the Monthly Maximum.

    What i think would work nicely is making it so that there is a Daily Maximum of AP you can attain everyday, but making it so that the Daily Maximum is a large enough number to allow people to skip days or to simply spend less time in one day and more in the other ...read more!

    I would like to see an ongoing rewards system that offers collector's items once in a while, along with the consideration of offering extra crafting reagents or even item upgrade utilities as weekly/bonus rewards throughout the month.
    Alhion wrote: »
    [...]I don't think a rewards system should ever contribute to a notion that simply "logging in" shows player participation/loyalty; More effort should be required in order in order to solicit a sense of accomplishment.
    An idea I offered during the live stream was introducing quests every so often that would re-present themselves throughout the month, so players have multiple opportunities to log-in and complete criteria involving the month's unique/seasonal goals, with a later reintroduction of some rewards to provide newer players with an opportunity to acquire some previously-released rewards.
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  • BehagueBehague Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited December 2020
    I'll be logging in everyday regardless...

    But not a fan because if you do miss a day, its like you're being penalised.
  • KhronusKhronus Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I will also be logging in everyday so in that regard....I guess it would be cool to get something for it? Honestly though I wouldn't be excited to earn something that everyone else will eventually get. I would much rather see some sort of achievement reward system that helps promote every community/content building aspect of the game.
  • AlhionAlhion Member
    edited December 2020
    Behague wrote: »
    I'll be logging in everyday regardless...

    But not a fan because if you do miss a day, its like you're being penalised.

    @Behague While that is the intention for the avid gamer, sometimes things do come up that can derail us for a day or two each month. While I think it would be unrealistic to expect daily attendance (and consequentially, have a poor impact on player morale when a day does get missed), a system that would require a certain amount of effort each day that can be made up if a day is missed as long as a certain amount of criteria is met each week may work well.


    I vote for weekly participation criteria, where each week's accomplishment contributes to a final monthly reward.

    If cosmetics/collector's items are offered by this system, unique-to-month and returning (perhaps with slight differentiation each year) rewards would be cool so players have an opportunity to gain a highly-prized collector's item later on if they are unable to obtain the item during its release month.

    I would also like to see weekly boosts, like crafting reagents/gear enhancers (perhaps upon completion of weekly criteria) as part of the implementation of this concept.

    Khronus wrote: »
    I will also be logging in everyday so in that regard....I guess it would be cool to get something for it? [...]I would much rather see some sort of achievement reward system that helps promote every community/content building aspect of the game.

    Gamer participation/loyalty is definitely important for developers and fellow players alike to promote. An achievement for logging in each day for a month straight would be cool for sure, perhaps for a piece of furniture.

    As far as a wide-held expectation of attendance goes, I would definitely move towards highlighting weekly participation and/or various criteria for the month that would be required for a greater reward.
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    I want to see rewards in game come only from activities in game.

    Logging in and afk'ing for a few hours should not reward players a damn thing.
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