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Comments
it's not even a significant change ..and especially not at this stage of development, also to my knowledge they've already changed the design of the dwarves once because of community feedback so why not again? ultimately steven (and many other devs but especially intrepid) want to please the community ..if that means changing something to do so then they will lol.
I could be wildly underestimating it though. I still think it would be worth it.
I am never going to play dwarf myself, but I do know that most people who play dwarf would like to feel badass. I don't think very many people would feel badass with the current dwarfs.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
they'd be scaled up alongside the model itself..the change isn't so significant that it will damage the outfit's visuals i'm sure
Not a fan of the ones like in WoW that look like they got squished by a boulder in an ACME cartoon.
I agree about the WoW part. Dwarf face look cool in WoW but their bodies are so bad that I wonder why tf they even changed the models from the original used pre WoD. Pre WoD, many models had far better body scaling, now a lot of bodies are super beefy and unproportional
The artists would need to take the time to redesign the armor to properly fit the new Dwarf models.
The Ashes devs are mostly from SoE/Daybreak, so we can expect that the general shape of Ashes Dwarves will be more similar to EQ Dwarves than to Warhammer Dwarves - especially since that is what we've seen in the concept art and that's what we see in the current models. The Ashes devs will be confident that these Dwarves are sufficiently badass enough because they've already had 20+ years of people being fine with playing similar models.
I am sure those DEVs are not with SoE/Daybreak anymore for a reason. People, don't just leave one place to go do the same thing in another place for no reason. I am skeptical that anyone left SoE/Daybreak to come to Intrepid to make the same game they already worked on.
They are a part of Intrepid now. Which is its own unique beast, trying to do its own unique thing. Just because someone made things early in their career one way, does not mean they will make the same things for the rest of their career. See Pablo Picasso's career for a great example of this. He went through a number of phases. If one person can change a lot in their own career, imagine how that is with a whole group of people doing so together. I don't think the final product is going to be exactly like anyone imagined. That is how collaborative works go.
I already showed in the thread that the concept does not match the current in game screen shots. They had something that was a compromise between large bulky dwarfs and gnomes. Right now they are full blown gnomes and people don't seem to like it. That is why this thread is here. I don't think this is the first thread complaining about the same thing I have seen.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
neither of us know how the process works i guess..but the point still stands..it's worth them doing it.
if you are right and they stay a similar way to how they are now then there's gonna be nobody playing them, simple as that..and that just goes to show you that the devs aren't always right, even after 20+ years, proof is in this thread, everyone in here wants them to be changed (except you for some reason)
They certainly did not leave Daybreak just because they believe EQ Dwarves don't look badass enough.
The artists have made concept art and models that are similar in shape to EQ and EQ2 Dwarves.
If they were drawing inspiration from Warhammer because they feel Warhammer Dwarves are more badass than EQ/EQ2 Dwarves, we would have seen that in the concept art already.
The Ashes concept art you posted which models Dwarven armor is basically the same as what you show as being in the game. That whole thing has just been scaled down, perhaps... in the concept art, the top of the Dwarf's head appears to be just below the Human's shoulder. While in the 3D model, the top of the Dwarves' heads are about waist high. But the concept art was mostly showing armor detail; not racial height comparisons.
The Dwarf in the concept art has the same proportions as the 3D model in the video.
Notice that Ashes concept does not have the same proportions as the image you say you like.
There are some people who don't like the current appearance. Sure. That is not most people.
If it were a significant amount of people complaining about the appearance when concept art was first shown and when the 3D models first appeared - maybe. But, the devs have already invested 4+ years in the current vision. They are not going to just switch to Warhammer models.
And, if they do, you should not expect this game to launch before 2017. Because that means the devs will feature creep everything.
i mean it's a fact they ARE more badass, ask any dwarf fan and they'll pick WH 100% of the time, it's not about what the devs think is the best it's about the actual fans and ppl that are gonna play the race think.
nobody*, nobody likes the current appearance, get it right man. Also i'll mention again that they've changed them once already, and like i said already it doesn't have to be warhammer lol, i'd take mostly any other fantasy dwarf over these gnomes but warhammer does them best.
you are not even going to be playing a dwarf and yet here you are arguing about how they should look, the game isn't out for a long time, time to find another hobby?
I'm going to have a Niküa, so...I will be playing a Dwarf.
What dwarves? They're some strange abomination, result of... ekhmm... between halflings and gnomes.
Same story will straight orcs, I stopped playing WoW after straight orcs, like.. wtf
It's pre-alpha, so I hope they're just replacements
Not saying anyone left Daybreak because the dwarfs are not badass enough. That is a bit of a strawman.
I am saying I don't thing they left Daybreak to come make the same exact thing all over again.
It is just a scaling issue right now. The dwarfs are too small. If they wanted to address this they absolutely could. I think it would be worth their time to do so. It is already a minority of weirdos that like dwarfs (No offence y'all). Why make a race that is not even super popular worst? It just makes it so that the people that do like Dwarfs want to play Orc instead or something.
The dwarf armor and flavor is on point, but they look like hobbits in dwarf armor.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
im guessing because not enough people were around at the time of it's development or it wasn't transparent enough for people to complain about them as those games are super old now, but now..now we can have a say about how we want our race to be and i'll have my say until they do them justice. i'm 100% certain that as a dwarf fan if they're not changed up enough then they'll be one of the least played races (so devs if you're reading take notes pls).
so you're going to play a dwarf and are ok with how they look ingame currently? so nikua are a completely different type of dwarf or you're playing a female dwarf? those are the only justifications i can think of, and if nikua are different then they should have separate models for both types imo.
100% the armour, architecture ect is amazing so far..shame the character models aren't up to parr. (and yes..the weirdo thing checks out)
The Daybreak devs know that Dwarves with a similar aesthetic are viable and that there are enough players willing to play Dwarves with those proportions that it's fine for them to use similar proportions if it suits their vision.
Scaling is not going to make the Dwarves beefier and wider in proportion.
Scaling is not going to result in Dwarves that look beefy, like the image you say you like.
Scaling is not going to result in Warhammer-esque proportions.
The OP argument is not that Dwarves are scaled to be as small as Gnomes rather than as tall as Dwarves.
The OP argument is that the proportions are off; not that the scaling is too small.
Scaling is not going to make the Ashes Dwarves beefier.
show me these players that are willing to play them, i want a word!
I would love to see some race statistic for a popular EQ2 server.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
Maybe we will get sliders and be able to manually fix the scale/proportions of the dwarfs.
That would solve all of this.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
All Levels 40+ 65+
Arasai 64,378 7,264 1,882
Barbarian 155,092 26,498 9,559
Dark Elf 230,647 42,206 16,004
Dwarf 76,992 12,306 4,219
Erudite 108,641 21,458 8,250
Fae 116,032 16,108 5,170
Froglok 56,908 7,392 2,602
Gnome 119,017 21,980 8,113
Half Elf 157,443 28,906 11,067
Halfling 38,657 6,819 2,508
High Elf 177,601 37,970 15,071
Human 193,984 32,906 12,583
Iksar 83,892 12,291 4,353
Kerra 141,841 21,665 7,773
Ogre 57,369 8,896 3,073
Ratonga 102,618 18,689 6,988
Sarnak 25,981 662 56
Troll 39,978 5,744 2,003
Wood Elf 176,771 32,524 12,615
EQ2 2007
I don't want WH proportions/scale. I just want a little taller and wider.
If I am reading that population data correctly. Dwarf was not very popular among the EQ2 races. To be fair though I don't think dwarf is that popular in any game.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
Ashes Dwarves might get about as beefy and wide as the EQ/EQ2 Dwarves, sure.
WH dwarfs are a perfect example of what they should be but they don't necessarily have to be that way for me to be satisfied, i'd be ok with LotR or warcrafts style too... really just something that resembles a dwarf and judging from the ingame screenshots they currently do not. seems like they need to re evaluate their vision if that's the case because the current iteration and EQ models aren't dwarfs they're gnomes, simple as.
Total War Warhammer 2's dwarfs are so awesome. Belegar Ironhammer specifically.