Will Dwarf designs get beefier and wider?

The most recent preview of dwarves I can remember in AoC was of those weird Gnomish dwarves. Any idea of their design will get more beefier and "wider"? Ngl, the current dwarves look very lacking for a dwarf

OK someone requested me to post this strawpoll here, vote what you want for the dwarves:

https://strawpoll.com/xzzpjg4yr/r

I'm gonna hope ppl will want changes xP

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Vhaeyne

I am very excited about this poll.

Dygz

This conversation has been going on for days now in multiple threads. You should know what I/we mean by now with: "The Dwarves we know and love.". People have been describing those dwarfs in many different ways.

Because Dwarves don't all look the same. Exactly.
I know which Dwarves you want to focus on, but "we all know" that that is a narrowminded view of the spectrum of depictions of Dwarves.

We have also shown multiple examples of how the dwarfs' descriptions don't match what is in game currently. We have shown concept art that is not a match for the game currently. That is the evidence I was talking about.

That is disingenuous because we can't show screenshots of what the Dwarves look like in the game right now.
The guy in the video that Agerr posted clearly states that while he is aware of the complaints about the Ashes Dwarves being too skinny and not very dwarfy-looking, that's not what he currently sees in the character creator.

As for your project manager prospective I did say I agree with that a few times now. I don't want delays for this. We don't know what tech Intrepid has under the hood to change things like this. It could be an easy fix.

Again, you don't know. But, I kinda know.
What we don't know is whether or not the character create sliders will result in builds that make the naysayers complacent. So, that is what people should be keeping an eye out for.
Stout is not necessarily the same thing as beefy and wide. So, while we may very well be able create Dwarves that are more stout...that doesn't mean we will be ale to get them to be as beefy and wide as Warhammer Dwarves.
You said on page one, "This concept art is perfect." And I've said, we can expect the Ashes Dwarves to look like that - especially with sliders.
But, that concept art of Dwarven armor is not beefy and wide.

The Orc situation is easier to explain. Orcs have never been very consistent from franchise to franchise. That is why they come with less expectations. At least for me they don't.

Dwarves have not been very consistent from franchise to franchise, either. But have been more consistent than Orcs, probably. Possibly more consistent than Elves. It's not particularly reasonable to assume that Ashes Dwarves will be just like Middle Earth Dwarves, but there is quite a bit of variety in physicality even among Middle Earth Dwarves. Not all Middle Earth Dwarves are stout. Certainly, not all Middle Earth Dwarves are beefy and wide.

Polls worded dripping with bias aren't particularly meaningful.

Vhaeyne

Dygz wrote: »

That is disingenuous because we can't show screenshots of what the Dwarves look like in the game right now.
The guy in the video that Agerr posted clearly states that while he is aware of the complaints about the Ashes Dwarves being too skinny and not very dwarfy-looking, that's not what he currently sees in the character creator.

There are screenshots out from Intrepid. We have shown them in these threads.

Dygz wrote: »

Dwarves have not been very consistent from franchise to franchise, either. But have been more consistent than Orcs, probably. Possibly more consistent than Elves. It's not particularly reasonable to assume that Ashes Dwarves will be just like Middle Earth Dwarves, but there is quite a bit of variety in physicality even among Middle Earth Dwarves. Not all Middle Earth Dwarves are stout. Certainly, not all Middle Earth Dwarves are beefy and wide.

Polls worded dripping with bias aren't particularly meaningful.

How would you word the poll?

Asgerr

Vhaeyne wrote: »

I am very excited about this poll.

Just got reminded of this dumb metal album:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoK3F2RFZtk

Sholer

Absolutely YES, but I just care about the Dunir I'm not a fan of the hawaian dwarfes.

Marcet

Asgerr wrote: »

Vhaeyne wrote: »

I am very excited about this poll.

Just got reminded of this dumb metal album: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoK3F2RFZtk

how epic is this lol

Asgerr

Bumping the thread for visibility (the higher the votes, the more accurate read)

Dygz

Ah. No. Zoomed out images don't really help.
We need images that where snapped zoomed in to be similar in size to the concept art you say you like to get a proper read of proportions. We need to be able to take the pics for the purpose of comparison with the concept art rather than just any old zoomed out shot which was taken to show a general impression of Ashes Dwarves in-game.
Actually, really, we should use screenshots of Dwarves in the current character creator. I have some, but I can't post them because visual NDA is still in play.

That being said, the Dwarves in the beach pic you posted are about as stout and wide as what's in the Dwarven armor concept art you say is perfect. The primary difference is height. The Dwarves in the armor concept art have slightly longer arm bones and a slightly longer femur than the Dwarves in the beach pic but the width of the shoulders and the girth of the waist are pretty much the same as the armor concept art. Again, we could get a clearer comparison if we actually snapped a pic that is zoomed in to be similar to what's in the concept art.
The Dwarf with brandishing the weapon is smaller, mostly in height, than the concept art. Again, the width is about the same and the girth is about the same.
The width of the shoulders is about the same as the image you demo as what's mustered in your brain when you think of Dwarves, the Ashes Dwarves you posted are not quite as tall.
But that is different than beefy and wide.
The art pics that you posted are not much wider nor much beefier than the screenshots of the Ashes Dwarves you posted.

The Warhammer Dwarf in the video Conrad posted is much shorter than the concept art you posted that you say you like. The shoulders of the Warhammer Dwarf are much wider than the concept art you posted.

As far as I can tell we agree, but you keep arguing as if we don't agree.
I think that the Ashes Dwarves in-game are surprisingly small in height.
We should expect the Ashes Dwarves will look like the Dwarven armor concept art you posted and said is perfect.
We especially should expect that sliders in character create will allow Ashes Dwarves to look like the Dwarven armor concept art you posted and said is perfect, even if, for some reason, the base model does not look like that.
What I said is that we should not expect the Ashes Dwarves to be MUCH wider...and I later reference the Warhammer Dwarf in the video... which is much shorter than the Ashes Dwarves concept art and has much wider shoulders than what is in the Ashes Dwarves concept art.

Soooo....please point out where, in any of that, we disagree.

If I were going to make a poll, I would take a few days to get the wording right, but something like:
What are your current impressions of Ashes Dwarves?

They look fine as they are now.
The base model could be tweaked a bit, but it's not a dealbreaker.
We're going to need sliders in character create for me to get the appearance I really like.
The base model isn't quite stout enough, it should look like the Ashes concept art.
The base model is too skinny and should be beefier and wider, like Warhammer Dwarves.

Shergrim

this dwarf thread will not fall into irrelevancy! bump!

Nagash

Not that i'm playing a stuntling but I do feel they need an upgrade

RocketFarmer

I think you may have enough players start calling them small-footed Hobbits. When you go fantasy and you use certain terms, like dwarves, the predominant visual from the culture and literature will supersede the artistic impressions of the creator. The dominant modern visuals come from Disney, Tolkien and D&D.

I would recommend character creator options for players to make their dwarves beefier or fatter. Might even be a running player thing about some dwarves not having the stomach for it. Or those without the huge muscles might be referred to as soy-dwarves. Hurtling insults is another trait players have come to expect from dwarves.

Or maybe the intent is not to call them dwarves and just refer to them as Dunzenkell. Just more foreign to the standard dwarven archetype, but not so foreign to Middle Ages versions where dwarves were described anywhere from short old men with beards to small children of incredible strength.

RocketFarmer

Need the option for players to create a dwarf that measures up to their expectations. Pun intended.

Dygz

(Oops, this was supposed to be an edit.)

Asgerr

At how many votes do you guys think the poll will be representative of the playerbase's opinion?

We're around 45 at this time. I would like to have at least 100 votes, but perhaps someone can math me a reason why a lower vote count is sufficient.

Nagash

Asgerr wrote: »

At how many votes do you guys think the poll will be representative of the playerbase's opinion?

We're around 45 at this time. I would like to have at least 100 votes, but perhaps someone can math me a reason why a lower vote count is sufficient.

I would say a 1000 to get the devs to listen

Asgerr

Nagash wrote: »

Asgerr wrote: »

At how many votes do you guys think the poll will be representative of the playerbase's opinion?

We're around 45 at this time. I would like to have at least 100 votes, but perhaps someone can math me a reason why a lower vote count is sufficient.

I would say a 1000 to get the devs to listen

Well then everyone please share the poll with anyone you know who has an eye on the game.

The poll was also reposted to reddit in case people have an easier time accessing it through there

bloodprophet

No.
I think they should do their own thing.
We are all here for something different. Every time they show something different people rush here to start a thread about why different is bad and it needs to be just like every thing else.
Why should it look like Tolkien's dwarves?
Because Tolkien said so.

I say have the courage to do your own thing stop trying to be like every thing else.

Inixia

I was hoping they could make the dwarf models a bit taller actually, and thinner.
Maybe the ears a little pointier.

Songcaller

Inixia wrote: »

I was hoping they could make the dwarf models a bit taller actually, and thinner.
Maybe the ears a little pointier.

I agree, little devils would be cooler than Dwarves.

Marcet

bloodprophet wrote: »

No.
I think they should do their own thing.
We are all here for something different. Every time they show something different people rush here to start a thread about why different is bad and it needs to be just like every thing else.
Why should it look like Tolkien's dwarves?
Because Tolkien said so.

I say have the courage to do your own thing stop trying to be like every thing else.

We don't want nothing different, we want it like it was BEFORE.

Before, MMO's were good and dwarves were badass.

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