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Will Dwarf designs get beefier and wider?

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Comments

  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Yeah, you're right, but I'd expect them to be reversed...Some of the concept art for Nikua have been based around sun, sea and sands. Especially the fishing and the mushroom one. Can't remember the names of course but I remember some of the concepts.

    I don't believe Nikua are in the current tests so I doubt Nikua has even been implemented yet and all dwarven replications are the Dunir for both races except the concept art.
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  • pyrealpyreal Member, Warrior of Old, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Sholer wrote: »
    Absolutely YES, but I just care about the Dunir I'm not a fan of the hawaian dwarfes.

    Ditto ditto
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Update. I played dwarf today in Alpha one. I would like to report that without any armor on they are pretty yoked out of their minds. I should have named my dwarf mini Hafthor.

    You put the armor on and become Samwise Gamgee.

    Still too short for my taste, but I think with sliders there is hope!
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    This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
  • ShoelidShoelid Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    played a dwarf in the test today and rather liked it :#
  • LieutenantToastLieutenantToast Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Merged together a couple of different threads here on dwarf models <3
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  • AsgerrAsgerr Member, Alpha Two
    Since they've been merged, could OP edit the thread to include the Poll at the top and in the title?

    This way it doesn't just disappear in the 10 pages of posts
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  • Hayhaka SapaHayhaka Sapa Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I like they didn't copy dwarfs created by some other game. Different games should have different designs because people with different imaginations created them. Most games dwarves don't interest me at all. WoW and AoC are both kind of cute in different ways for females. So, any I make are female. Most games though I simply don't like dwarves.

    What I would like is more variety in hair color (I don't like red hair on much of anything other than foxes). White hair, grey hair, black and brown. All I remember in AoC is red. Also, would be nice to have a long hair style too and not just short.
  • Uncommon SenseUncommon Sense Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Its not about copying warhamers legless barndoors with beards or LOTR movie Gimli "we dwarfs are natural sprinters very dangerous over short distances"

    Also it seems suggested that they are copying EQ dwarfs...so the apple does not fall far from that tree.

    When you tell someone that dwarves will be a playable race there is already an established expectation for people who actually play dwarves in RPGs..the risk of not meeting that expectation is a disappointed player base.

    As of now the Dunir lore and concept art does not feel portrayed in the current alpha models. Little foot heavy boots issues.

    Sliders might make amends, But its apparent by many players there is something lacking somewhere for me there is not enough heft. Feels like salad when I ordered a steak.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Haha! I was wondering how there were 94 new posts here in the couple hours since I last posted!!
    LMAO!
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Update. I played dwarf today in Alpha one. I would like to report that without any armor on they are pretty yoked out of their minds. I should have named my dwarf mini Hafthor.

    You put the armor on and become Samwise Gamgee.

    Still too short for my taste, but I think with sliders there is hope!
    Cool. This is exactly what I've been saying.
    Thanks for the sanity check!!
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Elf Marine wrote: »
    What I would like is more variety in hair color (I don't like red hair on much of anything other than foxes). White hair, grey hair, black and brown. All I remember in AoC is red. Also, would be nice to have a long hair style too and not just short.
    Yep. It's Alpha One Preview, so very limited options at the moment.
    Steven shared a couple of images with me for Aelar that he hopes will be added to the character creator in July, so...maybe some of the other races will also get some new options soon.
    We've seen a bit of that on the Ashes twitter account.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    There was not an option for me so I'm not voting for myself...
    You might want to tone down your blatant narcissism there Dygz.
    LMAO
    You are the one who will only play if the Ashes Dwarves are 100% the way you envision Dwarves should be.
    I could have voted "No" if I just wanted to be an asshole, but...
    None of the options in that poll represent my perspective so, I cannot honestly choose any of those options.

    I will say this...a couple hours ago, I chatted with Maggie about this topic and mentioned the poll and asked if Steven could possibly share some of his thoughts about all this on the next Livestream.
    She said Toast would compile everything and send it to the artists but no comments for the foreseeable future.
    So...I took a stab at promoting your cause to the devs and trying to get some early dev feedback for you.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Well, we got Toast's attention and a merge happened lol
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  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Yep. That was about 15 minutes after my chat with Maggie.
    I'm sure that's just a coincidence.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Okay cool, I have no cause for concern. I just thought it was funny that the poll was eaten in the merge.
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  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    I told Maggie there was a poll, so I'm sure they will at least get today's tally.
  • Shergrim wrote: »
    I kinda like the current model and the proportions of the dwarfs.

    guarantee you're not playing one

    Yep, i'm definitely not, how exactly does it change what i like or dislike about what i've saw?
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    Aren't we all sinners?
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    I told Maggie there was a poll, so I'm sure they will at least get today's tally.

    Yeah, Toast and Mags have played Dwarves on the dev streams. Some others too of course. They just want to make a great game.
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  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Update. I played dwarf today in Alpha one. I would like to report that without any armor on they are pretty yoked out of their minds. I should have named my dwarf mini Hafthor.

    You put the armor on and become Samwise Gamgee.

    Still too short for my taste, but I think with sliders there is hope!

    The thing is, there's no weight or mass to them. No visual oomph at all, and certainly not super stoic looking. Sure, the men have big arms and shoulders for their very diminutive size, but that slender wasp waist gives them that light-weight look. The dwarf women don't even have the muscles going for them.

    If the sliders can make them a head taller and double or triple their waist-size, we're starting to get somewhere, but I feel like that should be the baseline. Then if people want the more "ripped gnome"-look we currently have, I also feel they should have that option.

    The elves and humans are ripped too. Well, the men are, the women are just in the "fit" category. The human males especially look solid and stoic in their proportions, in comparison to the dwarves.

    Dwarf-tossing can definitely be a big thing in Verra with the current models. Even human kids can get in on the fun :D
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Asgerr wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Asgerr wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Asgerr wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Asgerr wrote: »
    However, he has the absolute right to believe that only Tolkien-Warhammer like dwarves look cool. So that doesn't "entirely" invalidate his point either.
    The problem with this is that this argument is essentially saying that you already think a thing you haven't seen can't be cool, because this argument is saying that only one thing does.

    This is clearly not a good argument.

    If you don't like the look of the Dwarves now, cool. Tell Intrepid specifically what it is you don't like, rather than just "they don't look like the Dwarves in other IP's", which really is basically all I have seen so far.

    If you can't find something you specifically don't like about them other than that they are not Tolkien Dwarves, then I'm not sure what to say other than that this isn't a Tolkien IP.

    I think a number of us have made the exact details of why we don't like them in other threads.

    I (We?) don't like the narrow waist (and most of the rest), excessively diminutive stature, the fact that they do front tuck flips when jumping etc.

    What I prefer: a more stocky and stout build, more muscular, perhaps a little taller (about navel height compared to humans perhaps?), heavier in their movements, etc.
    This really is just a preference for Tolkienesque Dwarves, rather than there being an actual issue with the current Dwarves.

    Basically, it is saying you don't want Intrepid to do their own thing - rather than finding actual issues with what it is they are doing.

    * Applause *

    You finally get it. It's all about the fact that we prefer Intrepid to make them look like me and many prefer them to look.

    What do you mean "you finally get it"?

    I said in my first post in this thread that all a few people here are asking for are Toslkienesque Dwarves. I "got it" before I bothered commenting - something I wish others on these forums would do sometimes.

    Just because I understand that you want Dwarves to look like every other IP's dwarves, that doesnt mean I agree that it is a good position to hold. You are - as I said earlier - trying to make Verra the same as every other fantasy IP out there, and this is something Steven specifically doeant want.

    Basically, you are trying to limit the creative freedom Intrepid can have with their IP, and I dont much like that.

    Now, if you had an actual reason other than "some of us prefer", then we have a totally different discussion on our hands. Thing is, you dont.

    All you have are some personal preferences.

    Yes. Exactly. Personal preferences matter Nooani. People play everything they play in an MMO out of sheer and pure preference.

    Indeed.

    Saying "I personally prefer things to be this way over how they are now, and these are my reasons", that's great, more people should do that.

    Saying "this thing needs to be changed, and here is a poll to 'prove' it", that is what I take exception with.

    You'll note, I have not given an opinion on what I think about the Dwarf model at all in this thread, I have given my opinion on other posters, and nothing more.

    Stop trying to force Intrepid to do what you want. If you dont like a thing, tell then you dont like it, and why you dont like it, and leave it at that.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    The Dünir male waist is not slender or waspish. The stomach is not pushed over the waistline as in the pic below, but the waist is not at all waspish.
    The Dunir head is just below the chest of a Human male in a side by side comparison.
    And that might be adjusted somewhat taller with the character creator sliders.
    Pathfinder Dwarves: (3 ft. 11 in. – 4 ft. 5 in.)
    The Dünir male base model is about 4ft compared the Aelar male base model.

    The lore says stoic; not super-stoic.
    Stoic - a person who can endure pain or hardship without showing their feelings or complaining.
    The facial expression on my Dünir male is about as dour as one could get and would certainly count as stoic if he was enduring pain or hardship.
    I don't know which head you chose, but it's an Alpha One preview. We can be sure there will be a significantly wider choice of faces by launch.

    Miiiiight be able to double the waist line, but... I very much doubt they will triple the waist line.
    The Dünir female arms aren't as beefy as the male's, sure, but having a beefy are is not necessarily a standard thing for Dwarf females. Both what we have on the Dünir female and beefy arms are common. Again, that can probably be adjusted with sliders.

    The Dünir we have in the game right now do not look like Gnomes at all. Not even ripped Gnomes. The Dünir are very clearly Dwarves.

    I don't think an Aelar could toss the Dünir currently in Alpha. An Aelar could possibly power lift a Dünir up and assist them into a flip, but most of that "tossing" would be coming from the Dünir's jump; not the Aelar's throw.

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  • Uncommon SenseUncommon Sense Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    There was not an option for me so I'm not voting for myself...
    You might want to tone down your blatant narcissism there Dygz.
    LMAO
    You are the one who will only play if the Ashes Dwarves are 100% the way you envision Dwarves should be.
    I could have voted "No" if I just wanted to be an asshole, but...
    None of the options in that poll represent my perspective so, I cannot honestly choose any of those options.

    I will say this...a couple hours ago, I chatted with Maggie about this topic and mentioned the poll and asked if Steven could possibly share some of his thoughts about all this on the next Livestream.
    She said Toast would compile everything and send it to the artists but no comments for the foreseeable future.
    So...I took a stab at promoting your cause to the devs and trying to get some early dev feedback for you.

    Not caring enough to care...Wow aren't we all so lucky.
  • Dygz wrote: »

    I don't think an Aelar could toss the Dünir currently in Alpha. An Aelar could possibly power lift a Dünir up and assist them into a flip, but most of that "tossing" would be coming from the Dünir's jump; not the Aelar's throw.

    "nobody tosses a dwarf"! - gimli
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Shergrim wrote: »
    "nobody tosses a dwarf"! - gimli

    My dwarf is doing a pretty fine job of tossing himself...
    I am talking about his jump height.
    Get your mind out of the gutter...
    TVMenSP.png
    This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
  • Uncommon SenseUncommon Sense Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    That path finder dwarf looks legit it's the legs and feet proportions that make it.
    Looks like it could carry 2 kegs.

    Not flip over them.

    Overall a greater solidified unbreakable presence.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The Pathfinder Gnome has purple hair. Let's hope it means more colours for our hairstyles in the MMO.
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  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited May 2021
    That path finder dwarf looks legit it's the legs and feet proportions that make it.
    Looks like it could carry 2 kegs.

    Not flip over them.

    Overall a greater solidified unbreakable presence.
    I mean - that is an absurd response.
    The Pathfinder Dwarf is basically the same as the Dünir base model currently in Alpha.
    The Pathfinder Dwarf's forearms are significantly longer, has a belly instead of a flat stomach and the width of the foot is about the same as adding a baby toe to the foot of the Dünir.
    All of that most likely can be accomplished with sliders when sliders are added to the character creator.
    Those changes to the belly and feet are tweaks - not major changes which without them cause the Dünir base model to look like a Halfling or a Gnome.

    My very first reply to the beefier/wider thread was, "I think Ashes Dwarves are unlikely to get much wider."
    The Pathfinder Dwarf is not much wider than the current Dünir base model. The Dünir base model is nowhere near as skinny as a Gnome.
    The Dwarf in the Warhammer Online video and the Gotrek image posted shortly thereafter would be major changes to the Dünir base model - considerably more than tweaks. They are most likely beyond the scope of whatever sliders will be added to the character creator.
    Neither of those look like the Dwarves in the Jackson LOTR films, by the way.
    (@Vhaeyne The height of Gotrek compared to Felix in the tavern is pretty much the same as the current Dünir base model.)

    So, if what you have been asking for has been a change to the Pathfinder Dwarf, you have been in agreement with me for 10 pages but arguing as if we do not agree.

    If all you need to be able to play a Dünir is to be able to create a character as stout, beefy and wide as the Pathfinder Dwarf, you will very likely be able to do so by Beta/Launch.
    But changes that will allow the proportions of the Warhammer Dwarves below are very unlikely.
    I don't know why that observation is so contentious.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYhDCrhoC2c
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  • AsgerrAsgerr Member, Alpha Two
    Just reposting the poll for visibility: https://strawpoll.com/xzzpjg4yr/r
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  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Asgerr wrote: »
    Just reposting the poll for visibility: https://strawpoll.com/xzzpjg4yr/r

    @Conrad
    Would you mind adding the poll and an explanation of the poll to the first post?

    <3,UWU, ;) ,ect...
    TVMenSP.png
    This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
  • ConradConrad Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Asgerr wrote: »
    Just reposting the poll for visibility: https://strawpoll.com/xzzpjg4yr/r

    @Conrad
    Would you mind adding the poll and an explanation of the poll to the first post?

    <3,UWU, ;) ,ect...

    Oh shit, the whole thread exploded real fast. Yeah will add that soon to the first post
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