Suggest: Swap the front flip for a jump or slide that uproots the earth, creating difficult terrain for the opponent. Or just let them slide between the legs of the opponent.
For jumping gaps let them use their weapon or shield as a kind of pole vault to gain a little more height and distance.
When sprinting downhill they should be more prone to tumbling, knocking over friend and foe due to the momentum of their small, yet denser proportions.
When sprinting uphill, dwarves should have a slight advantage, especially in caves.
In general, dwarves should be better at moving forward than running away.
What about the acrobatic jump when in character creation you make a skinny dwarf and once a certain marker of muscles/fat is paste you get a more heavier jump ?
Don't seem to hard to implement later on in the development.
0
Uncommon SenseMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
My Solution was simple.
Dunir: Heavy set swing arm jump.
Nikua: Flippy pygmies.
4
NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
1
Uncommon SenseMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
The other significant yet overlooked issue with the flip jump is how does it it effect pvp hit boxes?
Does the flip jump prevent head shots?
If there is a perceived pvp advantage by selecting the smallest race due to hitbox detection advantages and then have a jump skill prevent head shots when jumping...The PVP playing field will not look great.
Yes Nagash Tiki masks and other cosmetics* are fine
The main issue I see is combat effectiveness for the Front Flips. In most racial cases they can jump forward, turn back in mid-jump and still maintain forward movement, and thus, enable a Parthian shot tactic (shooting while moving in a different direction due to jumps ((Like WoW)), but the Dwarven Flip prevents the same dynamic Range in terms of Parthian Shots and kiting. You would find it difficult to perform Parthian Shots/Kite Melee characters and fight at the same time with the front flips. I hope I make sense. In effect, the Dwarves are gimped by the front flips in terms of combat effectiveness. I hope the Parthian Shot makes it to the full game but I would hope all races with ranged parameters would be able to perform the Parthian Shot rather than most being able but not all.
I mean tighter, thicker muscle tends to lend itself to short, strong bursts of energy, vs. lean muscle which is more for endurance. So if a dwarf is packed with muscle, it's actually somewhat reasonable to believe they could jump pretty dang well.
The main issue I see is combat effectiveness for the Front Flips. In most racial cases they can jump forward, turn back in mid-jump and still maintain forward movement, and thus, enable a Parthian shot tactic (shooting while moving in a different direction due to jumps ((Like WoW)), but the Dwarven Flip prevents the same dynamic Range in terms of Parthian Shots and kiting. You would find it difficult to perform Parthian Shots/Kite Melee characters and fight at the same time with the front flips. I hope I make sense. In effect, the Dwarves are gimped by the front flips in terms of combat effectiveness. I hope the Parthian Shot makes it to the full game but I would hope all races with ranged parameters would be able to perform the Parthian Shot rather than most being able but not all.
Another Interesting consequence of a flip jump...I thought hit boxes were an serious issue, but hadn't even considered attacks with a bow/ranged while jumping or jump turn re face kiting. I cant remember if momentum is maintained while jump turning or if mid air jump redirection is a thing...but yeah that make the flip a whole other issue entirely appreciate that insight @Zeshio
I can suspend my disbelief for front flipping Dwarves. I do think it shouldn't be an every single jump thing but it's not as immersion breaking as somethings I've seen in video games
shitty take as usual
you seem to only care for the devs vision and not what the actual players want..it's a recipe for disaster...is this why you no longer work for activision!?
Because the dev's vision is the only thing that matters. As that's what will be done. If players bring up a point they agree with, then that's the new thing that matters. If that's a problem for you, there's a wide range of other games to play.
0
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited June 2021
At least this is a quick and easy fix if the devs decide to remove the flip.
I don't think there needs to be much justification for why you don't like the flip.
But, the reasons people are giving to support why the flip should be removed, like Middle Earth Dwarves never flipped when they jumped or stoic people would never jump or stout people can't jump aren't valid.
How a person casts a Fireball mid-flip might be valid.
But, again, I don't think it will take that much to convince the devs to remove a flip from a jump.
The front flip is fine considering how the Dunir currently look like gnomes.
If the devs listen to player feedback and make them look wider and beefier, I think they should remove the front flip. If they don't, and insist on keeping the Dunir as is, I am ok with the gnome flip.
Hey people Where did you see the flipping dwarfs? Is there a video or something?
I'm not sure if this is what everyone's been referring to, but there is a jump flip in one of their older videos on their YouTube channel. Whether it's changed or not I'm not sure since I've never picked dwarves:
shitty take as usual
you seem to only care for the devs vision and not what the actual players want..it's a recipe for disaster...is this why you no longer work for activision!?
Because the dev's vision is the only thing that matters. As that's what will be done. If players bring up a point they agree with, then that's the new thing that matters. If that's a problem for you, there's a wide range of other games to play.
Many times Devs' visions are pretty bad. Players help refine those to what they should be. Except Singleplayers games but that is a completely different genre, where your opinion would probably be accurate.
Mmos are a completely different medium to SP games since they are driven by the players, and seeing how many, if not most devs are not listening to player feedback and eventually start going down the shit drain, tell me, how are devs visions more important than that of players? Every mmo so far ignores player feedback for the dev vision, only to be trash because they didn't listen.
1
Uncommon SenseMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Though Subjective I don't even feel the dev vision is being met but that's just my opinion. Aesthetics, anthropological appropriation and lore aside there are other issues that seem to be overlooked.
How does the flip effect hit boxes in competitive pvp?
How does the flip effect combat animations?
how does the flip interact with other abilities and combat tactics like kiting with ranged weapons?
0
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited June 2021
I think the flip is no different than the regular jump in terms of how it affects combat animations or kiting.
I tried casting while jump-flipping. I was locked into the jump animation and could not cast. So, you have to wait until the jump animation stops before you can activate an ability... as far as I could tell.
I think the flip also will be no different than regular jump in PvP - obviously will not affect tab-target abilities. I doubt it will present a significantly smaller hitbox for active abilities.
But, we still have to learn how the devs feel about the flip.
It's still Alpha One Preview... although I think Friday we played a build closer to what the devs have been playing and closer to what we will have in the actual Alpha One.
We don't know if they were just testing a concept or if the flip is really planned for Niküa rather than Dünir.
A flip is easy enough to remove. There were a few times when the flip did not activate and it was just a regular jump, but I couldn't figure out how to consistently trigger the jump with no flip. Now that I think about it, it could be that the no-flip animation that got triggered was the falling animation, even though I triggered it just with the space bar. I'll have to compare those animations next time I get the no-flip jump to trigger.
Hey people Where did you see the flipping dwarfs? Is there a video or something?
I'm not sure if this is what everyone's been referring to, but there is a jump flip in one of their older videos on their YouTube channel. Whether it's changed or not I'm not sure since I've never picked dwarves:
I don't care either way but I will say this. The description says NOT to be deceived by their stout nature, that they are the strongest warriors the world has ever known. I'd honestly question ANY other race being able to do a flip in full armor over the strongest warriors the world has ever known, personally. Also stoic is an attitude, not a body type.
I don't care either way but I will say this. The description says NOT to be deceived by their stout nature, that they are the strongest warriors the world has ever known. I'd honestly question ANY other race being able to do a flip in full armor over the strongest warriors the world has ever known, personally. Also stoic is an attitude, not a body type.
If that was the case Gimli wouldn't ask Aragorn to be thrown xP
0
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I agree that having long-standing fantasy races does come with a package of expectations, but I also think it's fine, and probably preferable that some of these expectations are broken from time to time, and to varying degrees, otherwise things can get stale.
Personally, I kind of like the dwarf flip. It's unexpected in a humorous way. If you think it ruins the fantasy, I can see where you're coming from, but we'd have to simply agree to disagree from there.
Ugh, I think we may be overlooking a critical piece of information with regards to flipping dwarves. Will they be wearing kilts, in the traditional style? That could be bad.
0
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I don't think Dünir will be wearing kilts without leggings.
Comments
For jumping gaps let them use their weapon or shield as a kind of pole vault to gain a little more height and distance.
When sprinting downhill they should be more prone to tumbling, knocking over friend and foe due to the momentum of their small, yet denser proportions.
When sprinting uphill, dwarves should have a slight advantage, especially in caves.
In general, dwarves should be better at moving forward than running away.
Don't seem to hard to implement later on in the development.
Dunir: Heavy set swing arm jump.
Nikua: Flippy pygmies.
They have to have Tiki masks
Does the flip jump prevent head shots?
If there is a perceived pvp advantage by selecting the smallest race due to hitbox detection advantages and then have a jump skill prevent head shots when jumping...The PVP playing field will not look great.
Yes Nagash Tiki masks and other cosmetics* are fine
Read the comic here!
Another Interesting consequence of a flip jump...I thought hit boxes were an serious issue, but hadn't even considered attacks with a bow/ranged while jumping or jump turn re face kiting. I cant remember if momentum is maintained while jump turning or if mid air jump redirection is a thing...but yeah that make the flip a whole other issue entirely appreciate that insight @Zeshio
Because the dev's vision is the only thing that matters. As that's what will be done. If players bring up a point they agree with, then that's the new thing that matters. If that's a problem for you, there's a wide range of other games to play.
I don't think there needs to be much justification for why you don't like the flip.
But, the reasons people are giving to support why the flip should be removed, like Middle Earth Dwarves never flipped when they jumped or stoic people would never jump or stout people can't jump aren't valid.
How a person casts a Fireball mid-flip might be valid.
But, again, I don't think it will take that much to convince the devs to remove a flip from a jump.
If the devs listen to player feedback and make them look wider and beefier, I think they should remove the front flip. If they don't, and insist on keeping the Dunir as is, I am ok with the gnome flip.
I'm not sure if this is what everyone's been referring to, but there is a jump flip in one of their older videos on their YouTube channel. Whether it's changed or not I'm not sure since I've never picked dwarves:
The flip in question occurs around 33:31
https://youtube.com/watch?v=8WQ_BBwK5LA
Many times Devs' visions are pretty bad. Players help refine those to what they should be. Except Singleplayers games but that is a completely different genre, where your opinion would probably be accurate.
Mmos are a completely different medium to SP games since they are driven by the players, and seeing how many, if not most devs are not listening to player feedback and eventually start going down the shit drain, tell me, how are devs visions more important than that of players? Every mmo so far ignores player feedback for the dev vision, only to be trash because they didn't listen.
How does the flip effect hit boxes in competitive pvp?
How does the flip effect combat animations?
how does the flip interact with other abilities and combat tactics like kiting with ranged weapons?
I tried casting while jump-flipping. I was locked into the jump animation and could not cast. So, you have to wait until the jump animation stops before you can activate an ability... as far as I could tell.
I think the flip also will be no different than regular jump in PvP - obviously will not affect tab-target abilities. I doubt it will present a significantly smaller hitbox for active abilities.
But, we still have to learn how the devs feel about the flip.
It's still Alpha One Preview... although I think Friday we played a build closer to what the devs have been playing and closer to what we will have in the actual Alpha One.
We don't know if they were just testing a concept or if the flip is really planned for Niküa rather than Dünir.
A flip is easy enough to remove. There were a few times when the flip did not activate and it was just a regular jump, but I couldn't figure out how to consistently trigger the jump with no flip. Now that I think about it, it could be that the no-flip animation that got triggered was the falling animation, even though I triggered it just with the space bar. I'll have to compare those animations next time I get the no-flip jump to trigger.
Thanks for the link.
Yeah a dwarf shouldn't can flip like that.
If that was the case Gimli wouldn't ask Aragorn to be thrown xP
Personally, I kind of like the dwarf flip. It's unexpected in a humorous way. If you think it ruins the fantasy, I can see where you're coming from, but we'd have to simply agree to disagree from there.