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Not really feeling the whole front flip Dwarfs...

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Comments

  • AtrushanAtrushan Member, Alpha One, Adventurer, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited June 2021
    Conrad wrote: »
    Atrushan wrote: »
    I don't care either way but I will say this. The description says NOT to be deceived by their stout nature, that they are the strongest warriors the world has ever known. I'd honestly question ANY other race being able to do a flip in full armor over the strongest warriors the world has ever known, personally. Also stoic is an attitude, not a body type.

    If that was the case Gimli wouldn't ask Aragorn to be thrown xP

    You can't exactly throw yourself and a flip is just an acrobatic technique. Also keep in mind a dwarf armor would be lighter than a bigger being due to it being less materials. Also are you trying to say that Aragorn could do a flip in full body armor?

  • MarcetMarcet Member
    Atrushan wrote: »
    Conrad wrote: »
    Atrushan wrote: »
    I don't care either way but I will say this. The description says NOT to be deceived by their stout nature, that they are the strongest warriors the world has ever known. I'd honestly question ANY other race being able to do a flip in full armor over the strongest warriors the world has ever known, personally. Also stoic is an attitude, not a body type.

    If that was the case Gimli wouldn't ask Aragorn to be thrown xP

    You can't exactly throw yourself and a flip is just an acrobatic technique. Also keep in mind a dwarf armor would be lighter than a bigger being due to it being less materials. Also are you trying to say that Aragorn could do a flip in full body armor?

    If Aragorn couldn't do a flip in full body armor... Gimli even less!!!
  • MarcetMarcet Member
    @Atrushan And I want Gimlis in the game, okay? I want them to stumble and fall like a potato when lightly jogging.
  • ShergrimShergrim Member
    edited June 2021




    Atrushan wrote: »
    Conrad wrote: »
    Atrushan wrote: »
    I don't care either way but I will say this. The description says NOT to be deceived by their stout nature, that they are the strongest warriors the world has ever known. I'd honestly question ANY other race being able to do a flip in full armor over the strongest warriors the world has ever known, personally. Also stoic is an attitude, not a body type.

    If that was the case Gimli wouldn't ask Aragorn to be thrown xP

    You can't exactly throw yourself and a flip is just an acrobatic technique. Also keep in mind a dwarf armor would be lighter than a bigger being due to it being less materials. Also are you trying to say that Aragorn could do a flip in full body armor?

    not necessarily, dwarves have much thicker armour due to them being able to carry much more weight than humans or elves.
  • MaezrielMaezriel Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Atrushan wrote: »
    Conrad wrote: »
    Atrushan wrote: »
    I don't care either way but I will say this. The description says NOT to be deceived by their stout nature, that they are the strongest warriors the world has ever known. I'd honestly question ANY other race being able to do a flip in full armor over the strongest warriors the world has ever known, personally. Also stoic is an attitude, not a body type.

    If that was the case Gimli wouldn't ask Aragorn to be thrown xP

    You can't exactly throw yourself and a flip is just an acrobatic technique. Also keep in mind a dwarf armor would be lighter than a bigger being due to it being less materials. Also are you trying to say that Aragorn could do a flip in full body armor?

    As someone who's worn full body armor (medieval and modern), I ain't believing anyone's doing flips in it w/o Spiderman levels of strength vs size proportions.
    ZeFuP1X.png
    If I said something that you disagree w/ feel free to say so here.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    That's like not believing in gods.
  • SigmundSigmund Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Hey all,
    Was super excited to make a dwarvan character. Logged in, and ended up with a garden gnome. Front flip notwithstanding, the feel was way off.

    I fully realize that sliders and customization options are not in place, and combat animations are in flux. Fingers crossed for a future change in the direction of Marcus Hietz or Tolkien, and far less Oompa Loompa, no offense to Grumpy, Sleepy and Sneezy, et al.

    A suggestion only: Broader shoulders and hips, barrel-like torso, larger hands and feet. My hope in playing a dwarf was to feel like part of the mountain, akin to stone. Sturdy. Not punt-able or diminutive.

    Now if Alpha being Alpha proves the current posture and model can be built on, and is flexible enough to allow players to make more halfling-type characters, then Hammers High! and /salute! to them - but I'll hold out for the dwarves that appear to be "pound for pound the strongest warriors the world has ever known."
    Certainly NOT coveting the lost treasures of Dünheim.
  • JustVineJustVine Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    How would you all feel if the flip was only occurring during a sprint jump?
    Node coffers: Single Payer Capitalism in action
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I'd prefer if it was possible to flip except while sprinting.
  • GaluxGalux Member
    Just make it so everyone can choose whether they want to flip or not, either in the character creator or as an option in-game.
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  • JustVineJustVine Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Galux wrote: »
    Just make it so everyone can choose whether they want to flip or not, either in the character creator or as an option in-game.

    I feel like an optional toggle might get more buggy than its worth. Also its kind of a racial characteristic. I hope they give Nikua this and dunir something slightly different just so my beefy breathern feel more grounded, ultimately. But testing the acrobatic stuff is more important for early terrain testing. So my question is more directed at Nikua players not Dunir.
    Node coffers: Single Payer Capitalism in action
  • BarabBarab Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited August 1
    Please remove the flip from the Dunir. By far the consensus was that it was ridiculous. Love the energy but it just doesn't feel right to the many of us planning to main Dunir.

    The Dünir Hold Mithril Warhammers,Thanes of the Keelhaul, Dünir scourge of the oceans, Warhammer First Fleet Command of The Dünzenkell Nation, friends to the Dünir Dwarves of the Dünhold. Hammers High!
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  • SolmyrSolmyr Member
    Agreed, it really doesn't fit. Casual acrobatics are more of an elven thing -- which is pretty much the exact opposite of what you want from classical fantasy dwarves like the Dunir.
  • Uncommon SenseUncommon Sense Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Thanks for the thread bump, bit disappointing after 3 years the jump flip is still a thing.

    The new Dunir models are great but now it makes the stumpy front flips even more ridiculous and out of character...
  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Not exactly a deal breaker for me that dwarves are flipping around when they jump, but it does look silly.
    Could see nikua flipping around as they'd be more used to jumping off of and climbing around ships. More fluid motions like with water.
    When I think of dunir I think of a quite literally grounded being. And if they were jumping from stone to stone in the mountains they'd be making decisive motions with purpose, focusing on getting from point A to point B in a no nonsense manner. Slamming into landings with a force seems more in line with the mountain dwarves as opposed to bouncing around.
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  • ArtharionArtharion Member, Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    Ashes Dwarves are from Verra and Sanctus; not Middle-Earth.
    What a race that lives under those mountains might do is up to Steven's lore; not Tolkien's lore.
    We have no clue how much head room the Dünir have beneath their mountains. I am pretty sure that there will be plenty of room for Dünir to complete their flips in the Underground and in whatever undermountain dwellings we encounter on Verra.

    You don't know what you don't know.

    Tomorrow they remove the flip and you would write a post saying is ok because dwarves don't do flips. You're just accepting whatever Intrepid does.
  • Uncommon SenseUncommon Sense Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The front flip acrobatic Dunir don't even adhere to Steven's/Intrepid lore...Just go back to the Kick Starter brief.

    It is so out of place and nonsensical...I'm almost convinced its done out of spite for the players...and remains as a persistent troll and inside development joke...Which is not a good look from an overall perspective. Plausible or not...

    There was a point in the Bard live stream where the crew even promoted Dunir Tank jump flipping as "who knew Dunir we're so acrobatic" and "Keep Jumping"...

    So yeah, bit of middle finger moment there...

    As someone who wants to play as a Dunir bard/cleric I am at a point that if the front flip jump remains, I am questioning whether I will pick Dunir at all and I doubt I am the only Dwarven-esk lore fan coming to the same conclusion...

    I'd ask again that Intrepid please reevaluate what Dunir means and if the character mobility really fits their own narrative? and if the player base would agree with that direction.

  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    I'll repeat this here as well.

    INTREPID, DON'T YOU FUCKING DARE TOUCH FRONTFLIPS!
  • SathragoSathrago Member, Alpha Two
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Not exactly a deal breaker for me that dwarves are flipping around when they jump, but it does look silly.
    Could see nikua flipping around as they'd be more used to jumping off of and climbing around ships. More fluid motions like with water.
    When I think of dunir I think of a quite literally grounded being. And if they were jumping from stone to stone in the mountains they'd be making decisive motions with purpose, focusing on getting from point A to point B in a no nonsense manner. Slamming into landings with a force seems more in line with the mountain dwarves as opposed to bouncing around.

    We need the front flip to end in a ground shattering t-pose. STAT!
    8vf24h7y7lio.jpg
    Commissioned at https://fiverr.com/ravenjuu
  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Sathrago wrote: »
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Not exactly a deal breaker for me that dwarves are flipping around when they jump, but it does look silly.
    Could see nikua flipping around as they'd be more used to jumping off of and climbing around ships. More fluid motions like with water.
    When I think of dunir I think of a quite literally grounded being. And if they were jumping from stone to stone in the mountains they'd be making decisive motions with purpose, focusing on getting from point A to point B in a no nonsense manner. Slamming into landings with a force seems more in line with the mountain dwarves as opposed to bouncing around.

    We need the front flip to end in a ground shattering t-pose. STAT!

    With a bass drop into a Phonk song?
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • Uncommon SenseUncommon Sense Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »
    I'll repeat this here as well.

    INTREPID, DON'T YOU FUCKING DARE TOUCH FRONTFLIPS!

    Profanity to promote a weak point...

    I don't have an issue with flips, I stated 3 years ago they'd be fine for the Nikua.

    If Intrepid decides to adhere to the mountain cave dwellers who are shaped by stone/solid/stoic...yet are acrobatic beyond belief...then so be it.

    I probably wont be able to play my preferred fantasy race due to it however...I don't think I am alone with this sentiment.


  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Uncommon Sense wrote: »
    If Intrepid decides to adhere to the mountain cave dwellers who are shaped by stone/solid/stoic...yet are acrobatic beyond belief...then so be it.

    I probably wont be able to play my preferred fantasy race due to it however...I don't think I am alone with this sentiment.
    Dunir push wagons of stones. They carry stones themselves. They wear super heavy armor. They use the heaviest weapons around, just cause they're the chaddiest.

    All of that requires your legs to be strong as hell. And strong legs lead to strong jumps. And their short stature leads them to have a lower center of mass, which allows them to do flips more easily.

    It makes total sense in lore and fantasy. Flips must remain.
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • Uncommon SenseUncommon Sense Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »
    Uncommon Sense wrote: »
    If Intrepid decides to adhere to the mountain cave dwellers who are shaped by stone/solid/stoic...yet are acrobatic beyond belief...then so be it.

    I probably wont be able to play my preferred fantasy race due to it however...I don't think I am alone with this sentiment.
    Dunir push wagons of stones. They carry stones themselves. They wear super heavy armor. They use the heaviest weapons around, just cause they're the chaddiest.

    All of that requires your legs to be strong as hell. And strong legs lead to strong jumps. And their short stature leads them to have a lower center of mass, which allows them to do flips more easily.

    It makes total sense in lore and fantasy. Flips must remain.

    All the descriptive words you're trying to implicate into justifying a highly acrobatic race is counter intuitive. Gymnasts don't work in mine shafts or look to be hewn from stone. Rocks don't flip they tumble and roll.

    I'd rather they plausibly use their upper strength to arm swing a jump to compensate for shorter legs not built for jumping but less likely to buckle under a heavy burden...You can't have a higher center of gravity will a beer gut... The whole flipping with heavy armor is just ridiculous in any context.

    The Nikua by all accounts being a free minded ocean/water race befit a more acrobatic moment motif. If you want acrobatic flipping dwarfs as an option...just apply the ability to the Nikua, Make the Dunir more stoic as they should be and nothing will be lost in terms of development or player choice options...

  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Uncommon Sense wrote: »
    nothing will be lost in terms of development or player choice options...
    What will be lost is my dunir doing frontflips :) And I don't want that. Which is my feedback to Intrepid.
  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I'm fine with the front flip. Sure, it's perhaps more a Niküan thing than a Dünir thing, but they have the same ancestors.
  • Uncommon SenseUncommon Sense Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Well at this stage of development and their recent Bard Livestream, It seems to me that Intrepid has doubled down on the Dunir doing flip jumps...give the 3 year gap between the rework to the model they would have had time to re evaluate the mobility aspect and agree whether or not it is lore appropriate...

    Some of us don't feel it is mountain dwarf behavior ...Others seem to justify it as cool but nonsensical.

    Having purchased dwarven specific cosmetics, with the original mindset of playing Dunir...

    I am now having to rethink my character choice due to the flip jump...I understand some players are fine with it...
    I am not one those players. So after my time with Alpha 2 testing I will come to conclusion after hands on testing.

    If it was perhaps a toggle-able cosmetic ability modifyer so that the player could chose on/off flips?

    I realize this might seem petty to some people...But It s kind of important to enjoy playing something if that avatar is played for 100-1000-10000+ hours.

    Might go with Vek just to troll myself...

  • SengardenSengarden Member, Alpha Two
    edited August 2
    It's a small thing, but if I had to voice an opinion, I'd say I agree that it looks odd. In general, it's obviously pointless. That being said, if the flair is going to be there, it should fit thematically. In WoW, I enjoyed having my night elf druid do a little flip now and then. It makes thematic sense for an elf to be lithe and feathery and acrobatic. When I think of a dwarf, I don't thing of them doing front flips for fun like it's nothing.
  • DiamahtDiamaht Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Uncommon Sense wrote: »
    I understand Intrepid is taking its own direction on races and lore for Ashes...Perhaps not trying to fall into fantasy tropes or intellectual property thresholds.

    But logically speaking I don't feel a mountain carving and tunneling race (Dünir) would jump flip... "Stoic and stout" seems more rotund, staunch and stocky... a 'regular' jump with perhaps a dodge roll seems a better fit.

    (Verbal NDA lifted personal experience alpha tester, So actual hands on impression of the race as it currently being offered)

    The islander dwarfs/halflings (Niküa) might seem fine with such athleticism.

    I hope Intreprid might already have such details in the pipeline but just not implemented yet.

    If not I hope they might reconsider the Jump Flip for mountain dorfs...

    I think it's just so we can actually see them. If they are not jumping, we will never see them over tall grass and small bushes.

    The artists spent a lot of time and effort designing them. The least we can do is actually look at them.
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    Presumably it's so that they can still jump the same distance as the other races, despite being half their size. Would you prefer to have your Dwarfs only be able to jump half the distance of other races?
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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