I'd rather have flips than yahooefied mario jumps.
And it's a choice between only those two options, because I definitely do not want my preferred race to jump only half as far or high.
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Uncommon SenseMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Mario also flip jumps and he is a plumber not a dwarf...So i'm not sure what yahooefied actualy means..
So the next argument now is distance because half height apparently now specifies half jump distance...
But flipping wearing full plate armor makes total sense?
The Dunir have hefty arms...an arm swing assisted jump is totally plausible and can be done without going "woohoo" or punching a floating box in the air...
If anything the flip is a cop out then, as to suggest it too hard to figure out how can we make a smaller stature race be equal to the bigger races even though technically they could all be flip jumping too and covering more height and distance.
However in the real world high jumpers and long jumpers don't flip either...and gymnasts don't wear armor or have bear bellies...
If it the dorf flip jump stays, I'll probably not play as one even though its my preferred fantasy race...
logically speaking I don't feel a mountain carving and tunneling race (Dünir) would jump flip... "Stoic and stout" seems more rotund, staunch and stocky... a 'regular' jump with perhaps a dodge roll seems a better fit.
The islander dwarfs/halflings (Niküa) might seem fine with such athleticism.
We think alike.
I also imagine the Nikua to be the more agile ones. Just don't introduce the Martial Arts of Capoeira for them ... ... ... ... as hilarious as that might be.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
If Intrepid decides to adhere to the mountain cave dwellers who are shaped by stone/solid/stoic...yet are acrobatic beyond belief...then so be it.
I probably wont be able to play my preferred fantasy race due to it however...I don't think I am alone with this sentiment.
Dunir push wagons of stones. They carry stones themselves. They wear super heavy armor. They use the heaviest weapons around, just cause they're the chaddiest.
All of that requires your legs to be strong as hell. And strong legs lead to strong jumps. And their short stature leads them to have a lower center of mass, which allows them to do flips more easily.
It makes total sense in lore and fantasy. Flips must remain.
I think you don't understand how human anatomy works. You're not going to see many elite strength athletes such as strongmen, who could be considered the closest equivalent to dwarves, with a lot of muscle hypertrophy and high weight in their bodies, doing flips. Who does flips in real life? People who do calisthenics and similar sports, meaning you need to be flexible and have a low body weight. When you have a lot of muscle hypertrophy and high weight that doesn't happen.
And this is coming from someone who has gone from doing calisthenics to hypertrophying their muscles for several years in the gym.
1
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I disagree that the consensus hates the Dunir flip. It's just a very vocal minority.
Majority are fine with it and have no reason to say anything about it.
0
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
If it was perhaps a toggle-able cosmetic ability modifyer so that the player could chose on/off flips?
I realize this might seem petty to some people...But It s kind of important to enjoy playing something if that avatar is played for 100-1000-10000+ hours.
Might go with Vek just to troll myself...
Why does it need to be toggle-able?
Don't flip if you don't want to flip. Don't crawl if you don't want to crawl.
Dunir players already have the choice to flip or not.
0
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Mario also flip jumps and he is a plumber not a dwarf...So i'm not sure what yahooefied actualy means..
So the next argument now is distance because half height apparently now specifies half jump distance...
But flipping wearing full plate armor makes total sense?
The Dunir have hefty arms...an arm swing assisted jump is totally plausible and can be done without going "woohoo" or punching a floating box in the air...
If anything the flip is a cop out then, as to suggest it too hard to figure out how can we make a smaller stature race be equal to the bigger races even though technically they could all be flip jumping too and covering more height and distance.
However in the real world high jumpers and long jumpers don't flip either...and gymnasts don't wear armor or have bear bellies...
If it the dorf flip jump stays, I'll probably not play as one even though its my preferred fantasy race...
I have the feeling that Dunir cannot do that flip on Sanctus.
This is an old thread but ill comment since it not necro'd.
Saying a dwarf can't do a flip is the most brainrot take I've seen in awhile, akin to in society seeing someone based on race, body shape, etc that they can not do something.
If you train to do something and your character is an adventure you are going to be able to accomplish it. It simple means this dwarf has trained for a long time or worked hard at it to be able to do it. IE if a dwarf trained to be a rogue.
Just because characters train and can do it doesn't mean most dwarf citizens can even do it, but that is the difference and freedom of making your own character and story from a RP stand point Gameplay wise there shouldnt be a limit on anything, if you want to be a dwarf with mobility that is good freedom.
Also i got 0 issues if you don't play a dwarf because you don't like IS lore with it. Less complaining to deal with on silly topics, and terrible tanks akin to trying to head cannon your own personal rp lore that doesn't make any sense as some sort of reality.
*edit
Ok i seem people are complaining about the basic jump being a flip, thought that was around a skill. I wouldn't be surprised if that changed later.
Also animations being sold to people is a easy way for monetization if they really hate something.
I also wanted to mention that the basic jump animation feels clumsy and cartoonish. It would be great if it could be updated to look less like my character has stepped on a rat's tail.
Do no take inspiration from WoW's animations. This is the only advice I will give.
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Uncommon SenseMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I backed the game under 2 main reasons.
1 Oceanic Servers.
2 traditional preconceived playable dwarf race.
If flipping midgets is fine with players that's ok, I hope you have fun pouring out drinks for the homies...
I'll play a different race. I'm not angry, just disappointed.
My hope now is that Oceanic servers also don't flip.
0
Uncommon SenseMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I also imagine the Nikua to be the more agile ones. Just don't introduce the Martial Arts of Capoeira for them ... ... ... ... as hilarious as that might be.
I am so glad that others are supporting the no-flips policy for dwarves. I recently made a video about it here, https://youtube.com/watch?v=iGmak8V5wmc and I hope that most can agree with me!
I look forward to more folks being vocal about them being pro or anti-flip.
The most significant thing is that I want to see dwarves be meaty and stalwart kin, as I imagine being a smith for hours would make them choky. That and the traditional dwarf is all about the old-school mentality of dwarves. Try not to change that too much, imo, as that is what most of our dwarven community is looking forward to.
Would you make the elves' animations rigid and methodical? No. They're elves, their animations should give the feeling of effortless grace and reflect centuries of acrobatic mastery.
The same principle applies to dwarves. They shouldn't be flashy and acrobatic. Their animations should feel practical, confident, and sturdy. And yes, they can and should be a little goofy sometimes -- but not in a way that contradicts the archetypal themes of the race.
I think you don't understand how human anatomy works. You're not going to see many elite strength athletes such as strongmen, who could be considered the closest equivalent to dwarves, with a lot of muscle hypertrophy and high weight in their bodies, doing flips. Who does flips in real life? People who do calisthenics and similar sports, meaning you need to be flexible and have a low body weight. When you have a lot of muscle hypertrophy and high weight that doesn't happen.
And this is coming from someone who has gone from doing calisthenics to hypertrophying their muscles for several years in the gym.
And none of that exists in a magical world with dudes the size of a barrel (in both height and width).
Magical worlds lead to magical happenings. And I want my Dunir to magicaly frontflip.
I may be indifferent but this song alone should make a canon story dispute between dunir and nikua. Where nikua flip around and dunir think its utterly ridiculous
How about, if you want flipping on dwarves, you have to put a talent/skill point in it from the skill tree.
This would then have to be a gameplay issue, rather than a visuals one.
I'm all for people getting a free cosmetic that will change their flips into mario jumps. Or the other way around. But I'm all against any removal of flips, or making them a paid/gameplay feature.
How about, if you want flipping on dwarves, you have to put a talent/skill point in it from the skill tree.
This would then have to be a gameplay issue, rather than a visuals one.
I'm all for people getting a free cosmetic that will change their flips into mario jumps. Or the other way around. But I'm all against any removal of flips, or making them a paid/gameplay feature.
I was just kidding around with the talent point idea. I know it would not be practical.
However, can I ask what your desire is for flipping dwarves? I mean, what makes you want the dwarf to flip? For me, the reality is that in role play, things like this matter. People have role played dwarves for many years and have lore, back stories, and cultures built into their roleplay. These people are passionate about such things. To some, it is silly and easy to dismiss. I have stated before in other places that this game is multi-generational. It is indeed international as well. The multi-generational one is what I want to discuss. There are players here, that will be in there 70's probably. Maybe not many but there will be a few. I am 53 right now. 54 or 55 when game releases. Will be playing hopefully into my 60's. Lore and Role play will mean something to me, as my reflexes for pvp and such are reduced. So I guess I am playing the Role )Player, older gamer card when we say that things like flipping dwarves does not fit into what we have been playing for years. I understand that it has a high chance of staying that way but still must make my case. Hopefully understanding the reason why some people do not want the flipping dwarves, as it directly impacts the role play aspect. It is important to understand why you want it as to try to balance it in my head which is more important.
I think you don't understand how human anatomy works. You're not going to see many elite strength athletes such as strongmen, who could be considered the closest equivalent to dwarves, with a lot of muscle hypertrophy and high weight in their bodies, doing flips. Who does flips in real life? People who do calisthenics and similar sports, meaning you need to be flexible and have a low body weight. When you have a lot of muscle hypertrophy and high weight that doesn't happen.
And this is coming from someone who has gone from doing calisthenics to hypertrophying their muscles for several years in the gym.
And none of that exists in a magical world with dudes the size of a barrel (in both height and width).
Magical worlds lead to magical happenings. And I want my Dunir to magicaly frontflip.
By that logic, I want my human to magically walk in the air. After all, it's a magical world, right?
Comments
And it's a choice between only those two options, because I definitely do not want my preferred race to jump only half as far or high.
So the next argument now is distance because half height apparently now specifies half jump distance...
But flipping wearing full plate armor makes total sense?
The Dunir have hefty arms...an arm swing assisted jump is totally plausible and can be done without going "woohoo" or punching a floating box in the air...
If anything the flip is a cop out then, as to suggest it too hard to figure out how can we make a smaller stature race be equal to the bigger races even though technically they could all be flip jumping too and covering more height and distance.
However in the real world high jumpers and long jumpers don't flip either...and gymnasts don't wear armor or have bear bellies...
If it the dorf flip jump stays, I'll probably not play as one even though its my preferred fantasy race...
Your sacrifice will be remembered with every flip I do
Is the issue that anti-flip people don't want to see any other Dwarves flipping either?
We think alike.
I also imagine the Nikua to be the more agile ones. Just don't introduce the Martial Arts of Capoeira for them ... ...
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
I think you don't understand how human anatomy works. You're not going to see many elite strength athletes such as strongmen, who could be considered the closest equivalent to dwarves, with a lot of muscle hypertrophy and high weight in their bodies, doing flips. Who does flips in real life? People who do calisthenics and similar sports, meaning you need to be flexible and have a low body weight. When you have a lot of muscle hypertrophy and high weight that doesn't happen.
And this is coming from someone who has gone from doing calisthenics to hypertrophying their muscles for several years in the gym.
Majority are fine with it and have no reason to say anything about it.
Don't flip if you don't want to flip. Don't crawl if you don't want to crawl.
Dunir players already have the choice to flip or not.
Saying a dwarf can't do a flip is the most brainrot take I've seen in awhile, akin to in society seeing someone based on race, body shape, etc that they can not do something.
If you train to do something and your character is an adventure you are going to be able to accomplish it. It simple means this dwarf has trained for a long time or worked hard at it to be able to do it. IE if a dwarf trained to be a rogue.
Just because characters train and can do it doesn't mean most dwarf citizens can even do it, but that is the difference and freedom of making your own character and story from a RP stand point Gameplay wise there shouldnt be a limit on anything, if you want to be a dwarf with mobility that is good freedom.
Also i got 0 issues if you don't play a dwarf because you don't like IS lore with it. Less complaining to deal with on silly topics, and terrible tanks akin to trying to head cannon your own personal rp lore that doesn't make any sense as some sort of reality.
*edit
Ok i seem people are complaining about the basic jump being a flip, thought that was around a skill. I wouldn't be surprised if that changed later.
Also animations being sold to people is a easy way for monetization if they really hate something.
Do no take inspiration from WoW's animations. This is the only advice I will give.
1 Oceanic Servers.
2 traditional preconceived playable dwarf race.
If flipping midgets is fine with players that's ok, I hope you have fun pouring out drinks for the homies...
I'll play a different race. I'm not angry, just disappointed.
My hope now is that Oceanic servers also don't flip.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Vestments_of_the_Runecarvers
The character Ludullu_(NiKr) gets to play
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1879722562318172
It might work though.
I look forward to more folks being vocal about them being pro or anti-flip.
The most significant thing is that I want to see dwarves be meaty and stalwart kin, as I imagine being a smith for hours would make them choky. That and the traditional dwarf is all about the old-school mentality of dwarves. Try not to change that too much, imo, as that is what most of our dwarven community is looking forward to.
Dünhold Discord
Dünhold Website
Listen to the song here: Dünir Dwarves Do not Flip
https://suno.com/song/2b7cc268-9763-4d2f-bacb-0c88fd681663
The same principle applies to dwarves. They shouldn't be flashy and acrobatic. Their animations should feel practical, confident, and sturdy. And yes, they can and should be a little goofy sometimes -- but not in a way that contradicts the archetypal themes of the race.
Magical worlds lead to magical happenings. And I want my Dunir to magicaly frontflip.
I may be indifferent but this song alone should make a canon story dispute between dunir and nikua. Where nikua flip around and dunir think its utterly ridiculous
I'm all for people getting a free cosmetic that will change their flips into mario jumps. Or the other way around. But I'm all against any removal of flips, or making them a paid/gameplay feature.
I was just kidding around with the talent point idea. I know it would not be practical.
However, can I ask what your desire is for flipping dwarves? I mean, what makes you want the dwarf to flip? For me, the reality is that in role play, things like this matter. People have role played dwarves for many years and have lore, back stories, and cultures built into their roleplay. These people are passionate about such things. To some, it is silly and easy to dismiss. I have stated before in other places that this game is multi-generational. It is indeed international as well. The multi-generational one is what I want to discuss. There are players here, that will be in there 70's probably. Maybe not many but there will be a few. I am 53 right now. 54 or 55 when game releases. Will be playing hopefully into my 60's. Lore and Role play will mean something to me, as my reflexes for pvp and such are reduced. So I guess I am playing the Role )Player, older gamer card when we say that things like flipping dwarves does not fit into what we have been playing for years. I understand that it has a high chance of staying that way but still must make my case. Hopefully understanding the reason why some people do not want the flipping dwarves, as it directly impacts the role play aspect. It is important to understand why you want it as to try to balance it in my head which is more important.
ok, noted.
By that logic, I want my human to magically walk in the air. After all, it's a magical world, right?
No, it's not. You're just agreeing with everything Intrepid does. If tomorrow they remove the front flip tomorrow, you'll be okay with that.
Ah yes, years of critiquing their design choices is "agreeing with everything they do"
John Belushi. He was all of 5' 8" and pushing 250 lbs. Not quite a dwarf but a pretty good flipper.