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[Feedback Request] Basic Melee Weapon Attack Update Discussed in June Livestream

VaknarVaknar Moderator, Member, Staff
edited July 29 in General Discussion
Edit: Combat Clarifications - Click here before dropping your feedback! :)

Hello glorious community,

We’d like your feedback on the Alpha Two Basic Melee Weapon Attack Update discussed during the June 2022 Development Update Livestream.



To help guide this conversation, here are a few thought starters:
  • What aspects of basic melee weapon attacks are important to you?
  • Do you feel anything is missing from the basic melee weapon attacks we’ve shared so far?
  • Are there types of basic melee weapon attacks in other games that you feel are done well? If so, in what ways?
  • Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with basic melee weapon attacks?
Please don’t feel limited by the thought starters above. Feel free to share anything you’d like about Ashes of Creation’s basic melee weapon attacks.

We’ll be compiling a report for the design team on Friday, July 15, 2022, so please try to get your feedback into this thread by then!

Everyone here at Intrepid Studios looks forward to reading all the feedback you have to share!
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Comments

  • edited June 30
    LOVES:
    1. The fast action paced combat looks great and a real good time. Also very happy that you’re not rooted while performing attacks.
    2. Love the implementation of adjusting dmg numbers. I like being able to see damage output and damage taken, but don’t want them to visually take over the screen.


    IMPROVEMENT IDEAS:
    1. When blocking, I would like to see that your character is actually taking a hit in character's body movement. Right now it’s just sound.
    2. Are we missing footsteps? That would help character feel more grounded.
    3. The spin with daggers felt out of place, was this supposed to be used with a hammer or great sword? That would feel more appropriate due to swing looked like he was swinging something heavy and not light daggers. Same with that big hammer animation skill. Felt odd to use that for daggers, but understand this was just a little tease on skills and not final.
    4. Not a fan of the yellow sword light/particles from attacks. Just keep it more subtle in grey like the daggers and tone it down about 40% for all weapons.
    5. Do you currently have a "curve" on attack movements? I wish attack movement's felt more linear if that makes sense. In video they felt like a mix of slowmo-fast that looked very eastern mmo. Movement almost slows down for a 0.1 second before the hit.
    6. Have the team explored a depth of field that is optional under Graphics Settings? Grand Theft Auto does a good job of making what is in front of you in focus while the things in the corner of eye slightly blurred. Would be a nice addition to settings in general.


    As someone who plays sorcerer in every game, I would've liked to see magic weapon combat. But understand spells are a little bit more sensitive to show. But overall, i'd say the team is making amazing progress and I would jump into Alpha 2 tomorrow if you announced it :blush: Way too excited for this game!
    Empyrean - The Superior Race
  • arsnnarsnn Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha One
    edited June 30
    This gave me a lot of confidence for the project.
    For me Intrepid now has proven to be able to utilize the entirety of the gamedev toolset involved this project on a very high level.

    PvE and weapon combat looked already refined.

  • NiKrNiKr Member
    Looks good. I personally could play with this already cause I really don't care too much about it. Hope you manage to please all the other people who care about combat a lot.
  • SonicXplosionSonicXplosion Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited June 30
    Having the greatswords weighty-ness being the max, and the daggers weighty-ness being the min seems like a good scale.

    Looks really good, and I think you should continue in this direction!
  • BrianDaddyBrianDaddy Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited July 7
    From what I have seen, It looks exactly like what I am looking for. I will love to get my hands on to really get a feel but I love the direction it is going.

    Edit - In response to the Comment from @TheDarkSorcerer
    #1 - I agree that blocking should feel most impactful, could be done with camera movement or player movement.
    #2 - I'm sure footsteps are still work in progress, but yes good sound and footprints would be ideal.
    #3 - I agree the whirlwind was out of place with daggers but it could just be an ability with the class he was using not really tied to the weapon. WIP
    #4 - I think the effects is a good thing to have for melee swings since that is what melee will be doing most of the time. I think it adds to the impact and feel of the weapon , I enjoy it.
    #5 - This I did not feel when watching, it could be a WIP issue or a recording issue. Not sure but looks decent
    #6 - I personally would not like anything blurred. But I can see the appeal as a setting. If the game is done well it really shouldn't need to hide its depth with a graphic setting.

    Also seeing a theme from other comments with people wanting weapons to bounce back on weapon hit. There are so many variables that I don't think some players understand when it comes to that.
    Would you like on every single melee swing you take in a game that hits a mob to have your weapon bounce back?
    Or you saying that just because of the monster type he was attacking?
    I cant even imagine the amount of back end coding work that would go into calculating weapon impact, based on the swing based, on the mob type.
    I think people wanting this are expecting something like the game Chivalry which has that and is still not perfect and is not what I am looking for with a basic attack in a MMORPG.
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited June 30
    Loved it and can't wait to see how it looks as we get more abilities.

    I think the important thing for me is they need to be useful and easy to use.
    smallerLizard.jpg
  • Combat and aesthetics looked wonderful. The motion, fluidity and combo system is a great direction and for this being so early, that was a great sight to see.
    The main criticism I would give is that the impact looked missing or very weak. Enemies staggering or reacting to being hit would go a long way to make it not seem like a dps race where you just swing until it's dead. Otherwise, this is a great direction and beginning!
  • Thysius7Thysius7 Member
    Looks like a good improvement over Alpha One. I think my only criticism, minor as it is, is that I would tone down the blur effect on the dagger attacks a bit, this could just be personal preference though, others may really like it. I typically play casters in MMOs, so I'm looking forward to the ranged update.
  • WarPotatoWarPotato Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Love it, absolutely amazing!!! Have no complaints from what I've seen, the direction you are taking this is definitely positive and something I absolutely support! I just hope you keep going on the direction of action combat instead of going only tab-targeting because I feel that kind of system is a bit outdated and doesn't lend itself as much to the fluidity and weight that action combat allows for. Can't wait to see what else you guys have in store!
  • ClintHardwoodClintHardwood Member
    edited June 30
    The biggest problem I've seen is that neither the enemy nor the player gets staggered by large attacks. It makes the heavy attacks feel light and floaty. Also, the overhead swing feels too quick. I think it should be slower, stagger the opponent, and root the attacker for longer.

    Daggers look good, though. The attacks are fast, maneuverable, and 'weak', as they should be.
  • jolejole Member
    Regarding damage number UI customization options. It would be nice in addition to the customization of these options to go in-depth where we can customize the colors based on damage type.

    For example, Nature Damage I would like to be green text vs Shadow Damage I would like to be purple text.

    This type of customization would be incredible to see.
  • nonameftwnonameftw Member, Warrior of Old, Kickstarter
    Animations look neat.

    Simple Feedback: Mobs should fight about half a meter further away. The weapon may clip through mobs. But the Player Character should never.

    It would be cool if there would be actual innovation. It'd be neat if there would be collision in the animation with the enemies. But I guess that's not what you are going for.
  • shadowphaseshadowphase Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I like the cleave feature with wide swings. I think the spin with the daggers looks weird being the same as the 2H sword. Maybe have a smaller radius for daggers. If it is a skill like the hammer then maybe summon a weapon fitting the animation. (not basic attack related) The golem's landslide attack or w/e could do with some more telegraphs like pulling up some rocks or something from the ground.
  • BrujoBrujo Member
    The third animation of the sword needs to be reworked. It's a slow windup then a little too fast on the hit then it just appears on the ground. This is minor that I'm sure will be addressed.
  • VissoxVissox Member
    I LIKE
    The sword. It looks like a REAL sword.
    The dagger animations.
    The ground impact decals.
    The dagger glints/swishes.
    I DONT LIKE
    The "floatyness".
    The sword glint.
    MY IDEAS
    Get rid of the yellow sword glint. When I saw the sword, I literally said out loud "Now THAT is a real sword." and then you swung it and it lit up, and it totally unsold itself. I would like the sword swing to appear as the dagger swing, just like a silver glint.
    The sword needs to stop on the rock man, it needs to hit, and bound backwards, and this should interact differently for flesh beings and other materials. It's probably time consuming but this is the only thing that would sell action/animation combat for me. I also need to see some mob feedback for when it gets hit, some kind of purely visual stagger with a getting hurt sound effect.
  • Can't say that I am interested in this sort of combat style. Can we have a TAB-target mode so that it does those animations to the currently selected target? I would like to not have to hold down the mouse key all day when it could be automated.

    As for the combat text; can we configure it in a Mik's Scrolling Battle Text fashion? That means damage coming in scrolls down the left-hand side of the player, damage going out scrolls up the right-hand side.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I'm good with this. I didn't expect this because I did not expect the game to be willing to go faster than even BDO.

    Any previous feedback I've given is technically moot therefore, because I was working from the incorrect assumption that there's no way Intrepid would have made a game faster than BDO or Neverwinter, given the other feedback received, but it is clear that you really want to push the genre beyond anything we've ever seen.

    Any other feedback I give would be similar speculation.

    As a Dagger user generally, I can absolutely work with the 'fast footwork bladestorm' I just saw, especially when the hitbox is shifting (I can't be absolutely sure that it is, but it looks very much like it is, from only what I was able to see).

    Y'all are gonna make me play this in preference to some fighting games, at this speed. I thank you.
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
  • AidanNautAidanNaut Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    What was showcased today was great, but what was most exciting was the discussion on the "ability toolkit". If I'm understanding right, this will allow the developers to not only quickly prototype abilities, but allow developers to balance abilities after release. No longer would players have to wait for years to see changes in ones chosen class, and only be restricted to simple number changes.

    Regarding the melee basic attack system, will there be other "swings" available to use? For example, jumping attacks, or "meteor" attacks from a great height? Perhaps some conditional attacks like back stabs or leg sweeps?
  • SigtyrSigtyr Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    This absolutely felt like the quality I was hoping for going into Alpha 2. A huge step up from Alpha 1, although a lot remains to be seen regarding ranged combat, abilities, weapons skills, etc. The basic attacks feel fast as well as impactful. The visual effects looks nice but not over the top which I think will go a long way toward making sure the game continues to run smoothly during large scale PvP (something Ashes got very little credit for in Alpha 1 imo). Looking forward to seeing combat built upon in the coming months.
  • iccericcer Member
    Except character appearing to be floating sometimes, it's amazing.

    I'd gladly take this combat in its current state over 90% of the MMOs out there.

    I don't want it to be like BDO, while BDO looks and feels great, its overly flashy and easy combat can also put me off. I'd much rather play a boring tab targeting game than something like BDO.

    Just please don't make it like ESO with that clunky, weaving, aa canceling mess.
  • AcijAcij Member
    I was wondering will there be a difference (in mobility, attack speed , dmg, cast speed, etc) between one-handed weapon + shield, dual wielding and just 1 one-handed weapon.

    Meaning....
    shield + one handed weapon - higher defense but slower mobility, attack speed, lower dmg, etc
    dual wielding - lower defense but higher dmg, attack speed but lower mobility, etc
    1 one handed weapon - lower defense and dmg but higher mobility, better cast speed, lighter in weight, etc

    I would love to see just 1 one-handed combat style
  • GrappLrGrappLr Member, Alpha One
    Awesome stream today! Loved the melee combat, looks awesome.

    Since you asked for feedback, my main gripe was:

    Enemies don't flinch/react to strikes. I think that detail gives a lot of "weight" to your hits. It's much more satisfying when they do.
  • Is there anything, in particular, you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with basic melee weapon attacks?

    Liked:
    - directional attacks were smooth looking
    - ground decals were a nice detail
    - sounds were great!
    - damage and crit numbers (and customizability) were one of my favorite bits of the demo.


    Suggestions:
    -I wish there were more visual indications that you were being hit or that a unit was being hit (other than damage numbers ticking). BDO does a great job of applying a quick highlight to the player and/or unit being successfully hit (by applying a quick flash of bright overlay)
    - In addition to the actual weight and impact feedback mentioned above, adding a shuddering/impact animation might help the weapon hits seem more 'impactful' and 'weighted'

    Overall, I am extremely happy with how combat is turning out. And the stream format and presentation were amazing!!
  • For light weight weapons, will it be possible to jump on enemies to avoid the attack and back stab them?
  • keyframekeyframe Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    edited June 30
    Overall on the combat side, the actual attack mechanics itself looks to be in a good place, will have to play to know more but looks great. I know animation doesn't get a final polish to later in beta, but the only feedback I have to give at the moment is that the heavier weapon could use a tad more ease in /wind up before the swing, making it feel heavier without changing the mechanical aspects.

    I have a few thoughts on the combat text:
    Separate the xp text from the damage text a lot more
    Allow for xp text to be shown as a long, lingering, Total combat xp displayed after exiting combat
    The font looks pretty good
  • Love the direction the game is going in. I think you guys are doing incredible work. Something I really liked was the audio and how the sound of the swings were although the contact sounds seemed to be missing something. cant put my finger on it though. As an animator I loved hearing that the new combat is being animation led because it makes a huge difference in the feel of combat. Well done team!
  • thexmanthexman Member
    While it looks like you have went in the right direction since alpha 1, the combat animations for both melee weapons shown doesn't really look that fluid and a bit "choppy". Even though the animation for the 2 handed is slower than the daggers, it still doesn't really give that heavy feeling vibe with how "choppy" it's moving.
  • VissoxVissox Member
    metuldann wrote: »
    Can't say that I am interested in this sort of combat style. Can we have a TAB-target mode so that it does those animations to the currently selected target? I would like to not have to hold down the mouse key all day when it could be automated.

    As for the combat text; can we configure it in a Mik's Scrolling Battle Text fashion? That means damage coming in scrolls down the left-hand side of the player, damage going out scrolls up the right-hand side.

    I gotta say I'm with you chief, I'm really not a fan of action combat at all, I couldn't even play more than an hour into BDO, it's just not a good feel. Ashes might be the game that makes me switch who knows? But I would very much perfer the old tab style, if it aint broke don't fix it.
  • Love the way this looks and honestly looks great as an alpha and I can only see this combat getting better and love the little detail like sound placement and weight effects that effect environment. Only few things I have to say is I would want to see the weight of heavy hits effect different weapons blocks (Dual Blades, Great Sword, etc) that will effect the player health if not in already or delay of the next attack for smaller weapons to encourage dodging example a dagger taking a block hit from a heavy hit delays an attack a little or lose more health so they become more evasive.

  • SaraphitaSaraphita Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited June 30
    Initial thoughts:
    • Combat seems to have picked a direction (vs trying to support action & tab target) and is focusing on making that choice the best it can be. I think this is the right approach
    • Combat gives the appearance that it plays well (responsiveness, movement, weightiness, etc.), but only time will tell when we get our hands on it and can say for sure
    • I like the customization options being added into the game to help rid of the desire for add-ons
    • To me, the combat looks a bit too fast. The daggers, for example, look like you will be pressing an attack key every 300ms and that will get tiresome when playing for long periods of time. It looks cool and flashy when you’re demo’ing it in solo play against a small number of mobs, but I feel like that will not translate very well to large-scale pvp battles and maybe even standard party sizes
    • Some of the animations looked a tad too cartoonish. I don’t necessarily even think that cartoonish is bad, it just didn’t look like they fit in with the rest of the game’s aesthetic

    I appreciate the updates and the work everyone is putting in. Looking forward to the subsequent streams and getting my hands on it in Alpha 2!
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