Greetings, glorious adventurers! If you're joining in our Alpha One spot testing, please follow the steps here to see all the latest test info on our forums and Discord!

Corruption system in relation to auto-flagging in open sea

NaughtyBruteNaughtyBrute Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
This is not a post about if auto-flagging is good or not, or about preference between the two.
It is about the corruption system and the logic inconsistency of applying this system.
(for transparency, I would prefer the complete removal of this system, but what irks me more is the logic inconsistency)


The corruption system was presented as a tool that complies with the risk-vs-reward philosophy.

E.g. an attacker risks becoming corrupted if he kills a player that doesn't fight back and the defender risks losing much more loot if he doesn't fight back.
Both sides are risking in order to get rewarded.

In the open-sea, as Steven mentioned in the stream, the rewards will be grater and the risk needs to be higher.
Is the corruption system unable to handle that?
If the reward is more valuable, wouldn't that make the attacker more willing to become corrupted and the defender more willing to fight back to minimize his loses?

Why is now the corruption system presented as an obstacle to the risk-vs-reward philosophy for open-sea content?

In the open-sea now, with the auto-flagging, what is the risk for the attackers? E.g. if let's say 3 ships that are co-operating spot 1 ship, why wouldn't they attack? Where is the risk?
How are the bounty hunters affected by this change? Would they be able to hunt corrupted players in the open-sea?
Contrary to what Steven said, this change is actually going against the risk-vs-reward philosophy. If you outnumber the enemy, there is no risk in attacking.

You cannot treat the corruption system as a helpful tool for land content and as an obstacle for open-sea content.. those things cannot be true at the same time, just because the ground changes!

When you need to add exceptions to a system, in order to make the content fun, then maybe that system is not good enough.
If it is good enough, use it everywhere.. if it is not, remove it from everywhere!

The approach Intrepid is taking makes no sense.
«13456728

Comments

  • DolyemDolyem Member
    I totally recommended this in several threads. AND NOW ITS REAL! How does everyone feel about this? Its a pirates life for me!
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • AsgerrAsgerr Member
    Unless you decide to navigate along the coast from one end of the continent to the other, it will take a ship approximately what? 20 minutes tops from continent to continent by sea?

    There won't really be time for much, unless you already had knowledge of time and place and destination, to lie in wait.
    Sig-ult-2.png
  • SigtyrSigtyr Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I love it. I think it fits with their philosophy of risk vs reward and also creates a need for intercontinental diplomacy. If a guild or guilds can set up a scientific node on each continent then risk free travel can be implemented between them. Obviously one type of player will have a vested interest in this happening and being maintained, while another will not. This will be a catalyst for both conflict and diplomacy.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited August 26
    LMFAO
    It's a dealbreaker.
    Like EvE and ArcheAge, that's too PvP-centric for me.
    I won't be playing.
    Unless we can use the Divine Gateways to port to starting areas on other continents.
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I'm excited! Can't wait for the pirating!
    smallerLizard.jpg
  • though im a little sad that fishing always gets tossed in with the dangerous areas, I do like them adding a "zone" that is full on pvp-encouraged. Pirates beware ill sic an army of swordfish on you.
    5000x1000px_Sathrago_Commission_RavenJuu.jpg
    Commissioned at https://fiverr.com/ravenjuu
  • OverthrowOverthrow Member
    edited August 26
    I think it's a very big decision and it's a bad one that will reduce the success of the game.

    The corruption system exists to prevent Ashes from becoming a gank box. Games that are gank boxes ALWAYS fail. [and if you don't agree with that statement, then why not remove corruption entirely?]

    Why then, would you turn all of the ocean content into a gank box by removing the risk of corruption? There are plenty of other opportunities for PvP that are balanced for risk v reward.

    If corruption works well on land then it should also be implemented for the water content. That was the original plan. This makes it seem like ocean is supposed to be some sort of advanced content zone, like EVE null sec.
  • I greatly welcome this addition. Naval content will be special-interest, yet something that even casuals will have reason to partake in - even if only from time-to-time.

    This will greatly support any Pirate-Raider-centric guild-themes; Living on an island or in a port-city will have entirely different context, when you know it's only safe to stick to the shallower, local waters....





  • In regards to 'risk vs reward' its even more risky to travel across the water so the rewards should be higher.

    I agree that fishing has now become very dangerous to pick, perhaps only add an autoflag zone once you go a certain short distance away from land. So you only get flagged when you hit the deep seas but can still fish in the shallower waters.

    For those who may not know there is a limited amount of fishing you can do in land and standing on the coast, better fish have to be caught by going into water by boat.
    y5aef1k1h1ij.png
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Scarbeus wrote: »
    I agree that fishing has now become very dangerous to pick, perhaps only add an autoflag zone once you go a certain short distance away from land. So you only get flagged when you hit the deep seas but can still fish in the shallower waters.

    I'd imagine there will be plenty of rivers and lake in-land for fishing.
    smallerLizard.jpg
  • Where are you guys getting all this information? Did i miss a dev update?
    Empyrean - The Superior Race
  • Cant wait to become a pirate.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    You did miss it. Yes.
  • JustVineJustVine Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Where are you guys getting all this information? Did i miss a dev update?

    About two hours ago yes.
    Celebrating the first caravancery anniversary with bursary sorcery.
  • JustVine wrote: »
    Where are you guys getting all this information? Did i miss a dev update?

    About two hours ago yes.

    Damn :( Watching now. Isn't there normally like a tab at the top of the forums with upcoming planned dev update like a couple of days before? Must've somehow missed it.
    Empyrean - The Superior Race
  • Overthrow wrote: »
    I think it's a very big decision and it's a bad one that will reduce the success of the game.

    The corruption system exists to prevent Ashes from becoming a gank box. Games that are gank boxes ALWAYS fail. [and if you don't agree with that statement, then why not remove corruption entirely?]

    Why then, would you turn all of the ocean content into a gank box by removing the risk of corruption? There are plenty of other opportunities for PvP that are balanced for risk v reward.

    If corruption works well on land then it should also be implemented for the water content. That was the original plan. This makes it seem like ocean is supposed to be some sort of advanced content zone, like EVE null sec.

    Well to be fair they are already adding similar zones to the inland as well. Maybe not as expansive as the entire sea, but its still something they have said they wanted in the game.

    unknown.png


    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Open_world_battlegrounds
    5000x1000px_Sathrago_Commission_RavenJuu.jpg
    Commissioned at https://fiverr.com/ravenjuu
  • OkeydokeOkeydoke Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Damnit watching the vod now and you spoiled this news for me Dolyem. Dygz get yur ass in the game. It's fine. I haven't seen the part of the stream yet where they talk about this, but I'd have to imagine if they're going to add a lawless zone like this, they may err on making the corruption system harsher in general.
  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I think I like this change. It sounds like there's still going to be a significant portion of the ocean which is close to shore and non-flagged, and shore-hugging travel and fishing will definitely be a thing.

    Open ocean has to be more rewarding with this change though I think. Bigger and more expensive fish to catch, NPC pirates with good loot, and whatever other ocean content we can think of.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited August 26
    No. That's not what a Battlegrounds is for Ashes.
    Ashes Battlegrounds are Caravans and Sieges; not zones. Rather... that's what they were before today.
    Also, you opt-in/sign up to flag as Combatant for those.
    We now have all Naval content as Battlegorunds with auto-flagging as Combatant just for entering the area.

    This now a case of auto-consent for being PKed just by choosing to play the game, so...
    I won't play the game.
  • Sathrago wrote: »
    Well to be fair they are already adding similar zones to the inland as well. Maybe not as expansive as the entire sea, but its still something they have said they wanted in the game.

    unknown.png


    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Open_world_battlegrounds

    Oh, of course. It's a PvP game. What I'm referring to is the unstructured, open world pvp that corruption is intended to penalize.
  • SigtyrSigtyr Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited August 26
    Dygz wrote: »
    No. That's not what a Battlegrounds is for Ashes.
    Ashes Battlegrounds are Caravans and Sieges; not zones. Rather... that's what they were before today.
    Also, you opt-in/sign up to flag as Combatant for those.
    We now have all Naval content as Battlegorunds.

    Think you could be overreacting here a little bit. We don’t know how easy or difficult it will be to simply run away from or avoid enemy ships without being boarded.

    The one thing I will say in your defense is that I always understood corruption to a be a lore thing, a sort of punishment from the gods. Auto flagging in the oceans goes directly against this.
  • Isn't there normally like a tab at the top of the forums with upcoming planned dev update like a couple of days before? Must've somehow missed it.

    Last Friday of every month is a dev update. If you're on the Discord you also get notified about 30 mins before.

    y5aef1k1h1ij.png
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Sigtyr wrote: »
    Think you could be overreacting here a little bit. We don’t know how easy or difficult it will be to simply run away from or avoid enemy ships without being boarded.

    The one thing I will say in your defense is that I always understood corruption to a be a lore thing, a sort of punishment from the gods. Auto flagging in the oceans goes directly against this.
    If I am flagged as Combatant just for exploring the world, I'm out.
    It's a drastic change for basic gameplay from content that was a stretch goal.
    And... I probably would not have backed the Kickstarter had I known this was a possibility.

    Which is OK... I've always said that I won't play if Corruption does not work as described.
    I was mostly waiting to test Corruption in Alpha 2.
    I now know that Corruption will not work as originally described.
  • Honestly its hype I'm 100% looking forward to that, going to actually make the seas feel dangerous for people out there, add more politics, drama and such. Curious how much money is there going to be made out in the sea as well with content. My guild was like when is this gaming releasing lol.

    @NiKr When i heard sea is auto flag

    vnlbs4q62czh.png
  • DolyemDolyem Member
    Dygz wrote: »
    Sigtyr wrote: »
    Think you could be overreacting here a little bit. We don’t know how easy or difficult it will be to simply run away from or avoid enemy ships without being boarded.

    The one thing I will say in your defense is that I always understood corruption to a be a lore thing, a sort of punishment from the gods. Auto flagging in the oceans goes directly against this.
    If I am flagged as Combatant just for exploring the world, I'm out.
    It's a drastic change for basic gameplay from content that was a stretch goal.
    And... I probably would not have backed the Kickstarter had I known this was a possibility.

    Which is OK... I've always said that I won't play if Corruption does not work as described.
    I was mostly waiting to test Corruption in Alpha 2.
    I now know that Corruption will not work as originally described.

    Wouldnt this provide a slightly lighter load of ganking inland though? Could just avoid ocean content and have fun on the mainlaind
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • Dygz wrote: »
    It's a dealbreaker.
    Like EvE and ArcheAge, that's too PvP-centric for me.
    I won't be playing.
    Unless we can use the Divine Gateways to port to starting areas on other continents.

    Why don't you just not focus on sea content in the game and have more of a focus on the content on the land? If you need to travel by sea just do that when you need to every so often. There might be a safe way to travel between land if you aren't trying to transport things it is a possibility.
  • DolyemDolyem Member
    edited August 26
    Dygz wrote: »
    Sigtyr wrote: »
    Think you could be overreacting here a little bit. We don’t know how easy or difficult it will be to simply run away from or avoid enemy ships without being boarded.

    The one thing I will say in your defense is that I always understood corruption to a be a lore thing, a sort of punishment from the gods. Auto flagging in the oceans goes directly against this.
    If I am flagged as Combatant just for exploring the world, I'm out.
    It's a drastic change for basic gameplay from content that was a stretch goal.
    And... I probably would not have backed the Kickstarter had I known this was a possibility.

    Which is OK... I've always said that I won't play if Corruption does not work as described.
    I was mostly waiting to test Corruption in Alpha 2.
    I now know that Corruption will not work as originally described.

    Also I am totally planning on starting a "safe passage" escort service across the sea.

    EDIT: maybe escort service isnt good wording
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • Okeydoke wrote: »
    Damnit watching the vod now and you spoiled this news for me Dolyem. Dygz get yur ass in the game. It's fine. I haven't seen the part of the stream yet where they talk about this, but I'd have to imagine if they're going to add a lawless zone like this, they may err on making the corruption system harsher in general.

    Corruption system is already really harsh, up to extremely harsh based on how dense the server is with seeing people around. If you are red and walking by 20 people, there is a high chance they flag on you causing you to lose more progress than you gain and gear drops.
  • WarthWarth Member
    Great change. Very good decision by Intrepid. Love it.
    Open Seas should be wild and untamed. Cross Continental Caravans/Merchant ships should be high risk, high value.
    Being on the open sea should be high-risk.
  • SongRuneSongRune Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited August 26
    .
Sign In or Register to comment.