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To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Corruption system in relation to auto-flagging in open sea
NaughtyBrute
Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
This is not a post about if auto-flagging is good or not, or about preference between the two.
It is about the corruption system and the logic inconsistency of applying this system.
(for transparency, I would prefer the complete removal of this system, but what irks me more is the logic inconsistency)
The corruption system was presented as a tool that complies with the risk-vs-reward philosophy.
E.g. an attacker risks becoming corrupted if he kills a player that doesn't fight back and the defender risks losing much more loot if he doesn't fight back.
Both sides are risking in order to get rewarded.
In the open-sea, as Steven mentioned in the stream, the rewards will be grater and the risk needs to be higher.
Is the corruption system unable to handle that?
If the reward is more valuable, wouldn't that make the attacker more willing to become corrupted and the defender more willing to fight back to minimize his loses?
Why is now the corruption system presented as an obstacle to the risk-vs-reward philosophy for open-sea content?
In the open-sea now, with the auto-flagging, what is the risk for the attackers? E.g. if let's say 3 ships that are co-operating spot 1 ship, why wouldn't they attack? Where is the risk?
How are the bounty hunters affected by this change? Would they be able to hunt corrupted players in the open-sea?
Contrary to what Steven said, this change is actually going against the risk-vs-reward philosophy. If you outnumber the enemy, there is no risk in attacking.
You cannot treat the corruption system as a helpful tool for land content and as an obstacle for open-sea content.. those things cannot be true at the same time, just because the ground changes!
When you need to add exceptions to a system, in order to make the content fun, then maybe that system is not good enough.
If it is good enough, use it everywhere.. if it is not, remove it from everywhere!
The approach Intrepid is taking makes no sense.
It is about the corruption system and the logic inconsistency of applying this system.
(for transparency, I would prefer the complete removal of this system, but what irks me more is the logic inconsistency)
The corruption system was presented as a tool that complies with the risk-vs-reward philosophy.
E.g. an attacker risks becoming corrupted if he kills a player that doesn't fight back and the defender risks losing much more loot if he doesn't fight back.
Both sides are risking in order to get rewarded.
In the open-sea, as Steven mentioned in the stream, the rewards will be grater and the risk needs to be higher.
Is the corruption system unable to handle that?
If the reward is more valuable, wouldn't that make the attacker more willing to become corrupted and the defender more willing to fight back to minimize his loses?
Why is now the corruption system presented as an obstacle to the risk-vs-reward philosophy for open-sea content?
In the open-sea now, with the auto-flagging, what is the risk for the attackers? E.g. if let's say 3 ships that are co-operating spot 1 ship, why wouldn't they attack? Where is the risk?
How are the bounty hunters affected by this change? Would they be able to hunt corrupted players in the open-sea?
Contrary to what Steven said, this change is actually going against the risk-vs-reward philosophy. If you outnumber the enemy, there is no risk in attacking.
You cannot treat the corruption system as a helpful tool for land content and as an obstacle for open-sea content.. those things cannot be true at the same time, just because the ground changes!
When you need to add exceptions to a system, in order to make the content fun, then maybe that system is not good enough.
If it is good enough, use it everywhere.. if it is not, remove it from everywhere!
The approach Intrepid is taking makes no sense.
8
Comments
There won't really be time for much, unless you already had knowledge of time and place and destination, to lie in wait.
It's a dealbreaker.
Like EvE and ArcheAge, that's too PvP-centric for me.
I won't be playing.
Unless we can use the Divine Gateways to port to starting areas on other continents.
The corruption system exists to prevent Ashes from becoming a gank box. Games that are gank boxes ALWAYS fail. [and if you don't agree with that statement, then why not remove corruption entirely?]
Why then, would you turn all of the ocean content into a gank box by removing the risk of corruption? There are plenty of other opportunities for PvP that are balanced for risk v reward.
If corruption works well on land then it should also be implemented for the water content. That was the original plan. This makes it seem like ocean is supposed to be some sort of advanced content zone, like EVE null sec.
This will greatly support any Pirate-Raider-centric guild-themes; Living on an island or in a port-city will have entirely different context, when you know it's only safe to stick to the shallower, local waters....
I agree that fishing has now become very dangerous to pick, perhaps only add an autoflag zone once you go a certain short distance away from land. So you only get flagged when you hit the deep seas but can still fish in the shallower waters.
For those who may not know there is a limited amount of fishing you can do in land and standing on the coast, better fish have to be caught by going into water by boat.
I'd imagine there will be plenty of rivers and lake in-land for fishing.
About two hours ago yes.
Damn
Well to be fair they are already adding similar zones to the inland as well. Maybe not as expansive as the entire sea, but its still something they have said they wanted in the game.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Open_world_battlegrounds
Open ocean has to be more rewarding with this change though I think. Bigger and more expensive fish to catch, NPC pirates with good loot, and whatever other ocean content we can think of.
Ashes Battlegrounds are Caravans and Sieges; not zones. Rather... that's what they were before today.
Also, you opt-in/sign up to flag as Combatant for those.
We now have all Naval content as Battlegorunds with auto-flagging as Combatant just for entering the area.
This now a case of auto-consent for being PKed just by choosing to play the game, so...
I won't play the game.
Oh, of course. It's a PvP game. What I'm referring to is the unstructured, open world pvp that corruption is intended to penalize.
Think you could be overreacting here a little bit. We don’t know how easy or difficult it will be to simply run away from or avoid enemy ships without being boarded.
The one thing I will say in your defense is that I always understood corruption to a be a lore thing, a sort of punishment from the gods. Auto flagging in the oceans goes directly against this.
Last Friday of every month is a dev update. If you're on the Discord you also get notified about 30 mins before.
It's a drastic change for basic gameplay from content that was a stretch goal.
And... I probably would not have backed the Kickstarter had I known this was a possibility.
Which is OK... I've always said that I won't play if Corruption does not work as described.
I was mostly waiting to test Corruption in Alpha 2.
I now know that Corruption will not work as originally described.
@NiKr When i heard sea is auto flag
Wouldnt this provide a slightly lighter load of ganking inland though? Could just avoid ocean content and have fun on the mainlaind
Why don't you just not focus on sea content in the game and have more of a focus on the content on the land? If you need to travel by sea just do that when you need to every so often. There might be a safe way to travel between land if you aren't trying to transport things it is a possibility.
Also I am totally planning on starting a "safe passage" escort service across the sea.
EDIT: maybe escort service isnt good wording
Corruption system is already really harsh, up to extremely harsh based on how dense the server is with seeing people around. If you are red and walking by 20 people, there is a high chance they flag on you causing you to lose more progress than you gain and gear drops.
Open Seas should be wild and untamed. Cross Continental Caravans/Merchant ships should be high risk, high value.
Being on the open sea should be high-risk.