Maybe we are getting hung up on the term auto-flagged for PvP zone. What if it is referred to as a corruption free PvP zone.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited September 2022
Castle Siege, Caravan and Node Sieges are all opt-in; not permanent zones that auto-flag. You can be in those locations without being auto-flagged. I could witness a Siege or a Caravan run as a Non-Combatant.
My character would have to be in a Guild or a be a Citizen in order to be auto-flagged for a Guild War or a Node War. Which means, I could play a character/alt who is not in a Guild or who is not a Citizen to not be auto-flagged and still explore as much as I wish.
That's not possible in a permanent zone that auto-flags characters who enter the zone.
I especially do not want to play a game where other players can look at my character and assume I am in the mood for PvP - when, most likely, I am not. Those are the encounters that cause me to rage-quit PvP-Optional servers and move to PvE-Only servers. Even though, I enjoy PvP combat, sometimes.
Enemy of the state? All of those things above also do not prevent someone from being killed in PvP, they just result in corruption being added to the aggressive player. I would like to say that I am not attacking you or your opinion, it just seems to me like "throwing the baby out with the bath water" to say that the game is unplayable if there is an area of corruption free PvP.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Enemy of the State - I'm pretty sure your character has to have accrued negative Reputation in the System for that Node first. But, even if a Mayor can flag anyone as an Enemy of the State. I can switch to an alt. It's by character; not account.
My issue is not particularly about bein killed. It's about being flagged for PvP when I'm not in the mood for PvP. Everyone has their dealbreakers. Being flagged for PvP when I'm not in the mood for PvP causes me to rage-quit.
And, yeah, again. I don't play games like EvE Online and ArcheAge specifically for that reason.
Don't play what you don't like.
As soon as Steven indicates Ashes is like Eve Online and ArcheAge - I know, as Steven reminds us, Ashes is not made for everyone. And... if it has zones that auto-flag as Combatant, Ashes is not made for me.
Which is OK. I don't have to play every MMORPG every made.
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mcstackersonMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Enemy of the State - I'm pretty sure your character has to have accrued negative Reputation in the System for that Node first. But, even if a Mayor can flag anyone as an Enemy of the State. I can switch to an alt. It's by character; not account.
My issue is not particularly about bein killed. It's about being flagged for PvP when I'm not in the mood for PvP. Everyone has their dealbreakers. Being flagged for PvP when I'm not in the mood for PvP causes me to rage-quit.
And, yeah, again. I don't play games like EvE Online and ArcheAge specifically for that reason.
Don't play what you don't like.
As soon as Steven indicates Ashes is like Eve Online and ArcheAge - I know, as Steven reminds us, Ashes is not made for everyone. And... if it has zones that auto-flag as Combatant, Ashes is not made for me.
Which is OK. I don't have to play every MMORPG every made.
Maybe we are getting hung up on the term auto-flagged for PvP zone. What if it is referred to as a corruption free PvP zone.
Instead of being flagged a combatant, it's changed so that no corruption is given for killing a non-combatant. You would no longer be flagged so people wouldn't assume you wanted to pvp.
So the issue is about being "flagged for PvP". That is gonna be hard for me to address considering, if I am not mistaken, everyone is flagged for PvP almost everywhere.
My purpose in responding here is my hope to keep you a part of the AoC community. I enjoy your podcasts. I believe having you around to express the needs of PvE players, of which I am one predominantly, helps to balance the game.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Instead of being flagged a combatant, it's changed so that no corruption is given for killing a non-combatant. You would no longer be flagged so people wouldn't assume you wanted to pvp.
It would at least have to not auto-flag me for PvP although... I'm not sure how much it would matter if there were not a signifcant penalty for killing Non-Combatants.
Theoretically, players on the "PvP-light servers" might not attack Non-Combatants on the Open Seas.
My issue is there being a permanent zone that auto-flags as a Combatant, rather than being flagged as a Non-Combatant by default.
I can be a part of the Ashes Community and not play the game.
I can be a part of the Ashes Community and not play the game.
Sure. But the thing I don't get... is why would you WANT to? Seems pretty weird to me.
Are you hoping you can change the direction of the game? If so, you are playing it all wrong in my opinion.
I can be a part of the Ashes Community and not play the game.
Sure. But the thing I don't get... is why would you WANT to? Seems pretty weird to me.
Are you hoping you can change the direction of the game? If so, you are playing it all wrong in my opinion.
Honestly nothing is wrong with that. It is the same way people watch streamers play games. He invested in the game and is curious where it will go. It can be entertaining to watch even if its not a game for some players.
Honestly nothing is wrong with that. It is the same way people watch streamers play games. He invested in the game and is curious where it will go. It can be entertaining to watch even if its not a game for some players.
I guess. I do like watching streamers play games... not quite the same as watching regular players chat in the forums about the game while all the time saying this is a game you have no interest in playing, but to each their own.
I just find it odd that anyone would spend time watching someone playing game, rather than playing that game them self.
I've yet to come across a game streamer thatvwas more entertaining than the game itself - I just dont see the point in them.
As a streamer enjoyer myself I can answer this at least from my own pov. In most cases I watch a streamer who either has a different pov/logic from me or the same.
I watch the one with differing opinions to see the other side of some conversation or to see him play a game that I have already beaten to see if there's something in the game that I might've missed (be it thematic or even gameplay).
And I watch the one with the same opinions/playstyle for those games that I will most likely not play myself but have some interest about (be it social-based or just general). This allows me to "play" the game the same way I would've played it w/o, well, playing it
The 2 biggest examples of this are Asmon and CohhCarnage. Asmon's views on games are quite different from mine so I watch him to check my bias for stuff. His chat's opinion only adds another lvl of that "check". Cohh's playstyle is almost exactly like mine (explores every nook and cranny and appreciates the story so never skips it) so I can watch him play games that I don't have the money or the time for and I would still feel as if I've played those games.
There's obviously the mechanical part of playing the game, but if I'm interested in that I'm most likely gonna play it myself and just won't watch the stream of it.
Oh, and there's also the "enrichment" streamers. Those who might be close to my gameplay, but go even deeper in some places and unveil stuff that I might've completely missed. For me that's MurderOfBirds with his Genshin streams. He's way deeper into the lore of the game and knows connections of characters that I sometime miss.
There's also the "re-experience the hype/emotionality" part of the equation. But that usually applies more to clips of streams rather than full vods.
There's also the "re-experience the hype/emotionality" part of the equation. But that usually applies more to clips of streams rather than full vods.
Clips I can understand. A good clip is information rich - high signal to noise ratio.
To me, a stream is the exact opposite.
If I were wanting to experience the story of a game (specifically a time consuming game like an RPG), and I was not going to play it, I'd perhaps watch clips that go over said story.
If I had the time to watch a livestream for the story of a game, I have the time to play it to experience it first hand.
I can understand the money aspect of it, but again, if I am unwilling to spend money on a game, I would be unwilling to put the amount of time in watching a stream - clips would be the way to go again.
The only people I know that watch gaming streams are some nephews of mine. But even then, they only do that when they have screen time, but are not allowed to use it for playing games.
Obviously, many people watch streams. I'm not saying people are wrong for watching them. I'm just saying I dont get it.
Obviously, many people watch streams. I'm not saying people are wrong for watching them. I'm just saying I dont get it.
It comes down to list of priorities and the energy to do the things on said list. It's way easier to watch a stream than to play a game. You can also do smth else while watching the stream. "Lurking" is quite popular exactly because of that.
There's also the social aspect of chatting with other like-minded people and the overall feeling of being a part of a community. And an even bigger aspect of parasocialness where this cool person is you "friend" that you get to watch/experience stuff with.
And for some people (me being my biggest example) there's the x2 speed (though I watch stuff at x2.5) at which you can consume the content, so you can get through more stuff in less time.
And as I said, it's not always games that you yourself would play. I watched the full playthrough of TLOU(2) on Cohh's stream because I had no intention of playing those games but I was interested in the bigger social discussion about them and I wanted to see why those games were praised/hated so much. And even if I pirated those games, spending several dozen hours playing them was in no way appealing to me.
Also, there's the issue of literally not having the means to play the games that are exclusive to a platform that you don't have. I'll never have a switch or a playstation, but I'm interested in seeing what their games represent because quite often they push the industry forward. And by watching streamers that play like me I can pretty much "play" those games myself.
Being part of the community the streamer creates can be a good feeling. Viewers support the streamer. They fit support roles in MMOs, like doing endless hours of crafting and gathering (cutting trees and fishing) which can be a boring activity for a professional raider.
I bet @Dygz just wanted to fish peacefully hours long in the middle of ocean and drinking rum.
September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
haha.
Well, I want to be able to explore the entire world, repeatedly, when I wish to, without being auto-flagged as a Combatant.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I can be a part of the Ashes Community and not play the game.
Sure. But the thing I don't get... is why would you WANT to? Seems pretty weird to me.
Are you hoping you can change the direction of the game? If so, you are playing it all wrong in my opinion.
If I wanted to change the direction of the game development... the first thing I would do is start a poll.
And, on the Ashen Forge podcast, I would state that people who don't like the auto-flagging in the Open Seas mechanic should post on the forums.
I havent done either of those.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I watch streamers because I like to see the way other people like to play.
It's not much different than visiting other people's homes.
Depends on what I'm doing, but... I might be watching other people play while I'm playing the same game in another part of the world or on a different server.
Especially if I like the personalities and/or commentary of the steamers.
Especially true if someone is streaming while I'm at work and can watch, but can't play.
At the end of the day, it's different strokes for different folks.
This is not a post about if auto-flagging is good or not, or about preference between the two.
It is about the corruption system and the logic inconsistency of applying this system.
(for transparency, I would prefer the complete removal of this system, but what irks me more is the logic inconsistency)
The corruption system was presented as a tool that complies with the risk-vs-reward philosophy.
E.g. an attacker risks becoming corrupted if he kills a player that doesn't fight back and the defender risks losing much more loot if he doesn't fight back.
Both sides are risking in order to get rewarded.
In the open-sea, as Steven mentioned in the stream, the rewards will be grater and the risk needs to be higher.
Is the corruption system unable to handle that?
If the reward is more valuable, wouldn't that make the attacker more willing to become corrupted and the defender more willing to fight back to minimize his loses?
Why is now the corruption system presented as an obstacle to the risk-vs-reward philosophy for open-sea content?
In the open-sea now, with the auto-flagging, what is the risk for the attackers? E.g. if let's say 3 ships that are co-operating spot 1 ship, why wouldn't they attack? Where is the risk?
How are the bounty hunters affected by this change? Would they be able to hunt corrupted players in the open-sea?
Contrary to what Steven said, this change is actually going against the risk-vs-reward philosophy. If you outnumber the enemy, there is no risk in attacking.
You cannot treat the corruption system as a helpful tool for land content and as an obstacle for open-sea content.. those things cannot be true at the same time, just because the ground changes!
When you need to add exceptions to a system, in order to make the content fun, then maybe that system is not good enough.
If it is good enough, use it everywhere.. if it is not, remove it from everywhere!
The approach Intrepid is taking makes no sense.
what if you dont outnumber the enemy?
what if you get baited thinking you are 3 vs 1 then after you get corrupted, ships come out of nowhere and kill you.
what if you just sell with others so you dont get 3v1 ed
what if you get corrupted then you cant lose karma fast enough and someone else comes and kills you?
If I wanted to change the direction of the game development... the first thing I would do is start a poll.
And, on the Ashen Forge podcast, I would state that people who don't like the auto-flagging in the Open Seas mechanic should post on the forums.
I havent done either of those.
Pretty sure the only people still watching the "Ashen Forge" or theory forge or whatever it is called would agree with you... or they would have stopped watching.
Come to think of it... you should start a poll. lets see where this lands.
Pretty sure the only people still watching the "Ashen Forge" or theory forge or whatever it is called would agree with you... or they would have stopped watching.
I watch every episode of Ashes Forge and I disagree with them on a lot of topics. I watch it exactly because I disagree with them. Fuck being in an echo chamber.
Pretty sure the only people still watching the "Ashen Forge" or theory forge or whatever it is called would agree with you... or they would have stopped watching.
I watch every episode of Ashes Forge and I disagree with them on a lot of topics. I watch it exactly because I disagree with them. Fuck being in an echo chamber.
Do they only agree with each other or do they bring counter points or other view points?
Comments
My character would have to be in a Guild or a be a Citizen in order to be auto-flagged for a Guild War or a Node War. Which means, I could play a character/alt who is not in a Guild or who is not a Citizen to not be auto-flagged and still explore as much as I wish.
That's not possible in a permanent zone that auto-flags characters who enter the zone.
I especially do not want to play a game where other players can look at my character and assume I am in the mood for PvP - when, most likely, I am not. Those are the encounters that cause me to rage-quit PvP-Optional servers and move to PvE-Only servers. Even though, I enjoy PvP combat, sometimes.
My issue is not particularly about bein killed. It's about being flagged for PvP when I'm not in the mood for PvP. Everyone has their dealbreakers. Being flagged for PvP when I'm not in the mood for PvP causes me to rage-quit.
And, yeah, again. I don't play games like EvE Online and ArcheAge specifically for that reason.
Don't play what you don't like.
As soon as Steven indicates Ashes is like Eve Online and ArcheAge - I know, as Steven reminds us, Ashes is not made for everyone. And... if it has zones that auto-flag as Combatant, Ashes is not made for me.
Which is OK. I don't have to play every MMORPG every made.
So would this recommendation fix your issue?
Instead of being flagged a combatant, it's changed so that no corruption is given for killing a non-combatant. You would no longer be flagged so people wouldn't assume you wanted to pvp.
My purpose in responding here is my hope to keep you a part of the AoC community. I enjoy your podcasts. I believe having you around to express the needs of PvE players, of which I am one predominantly, helps to balance the game.
Theoretically, players on the "PvP-light servers" might not attack Non-Combatants on the Open Seas.
My issue is there being a permanent zone that auto-flags as a Combatant, rather than being flagged as a Non-Combatant by default.
I can be a part of the Ashes Community and not play the game.
Not everybody has to PvP.
No, thank you. I'm not OK with that.
Sure. But the thing I don't get... is why would you WANT to? Seems pretty weird to me.
Are you hoping you can change the direction of the game? If so, you are playing it all wrong in my opinion.
Honestly nothing is wrong with that. It is the same way people watch streamers play games. He invested in the game and is curious where it will go. It can be entertaining to watch even if its not a game for some players.
I guess. I do like watching streamers play games... not quite the same as watching regular players chat in the forums about the game while all the time saying this is a game you have no interest in playing, but to each their own.
Many reasons. But certainly not to repeatedly tell the streamer and his/her chat that I don’t want to play the game.
did you have any more questions?
Not really, not that you really answered my one question that I did have.
I just find it odd that anyone would spend time watching someone playing game, rather than playing that game them self.
I've yet to come across a game streamer thatvwas more entertaining than the game itself - I just dont see the point in them.
I watch the one with differing opinions to see the other side of some conversation or to see him play a game that I have already beaten to see if there's something in the game that I might've missed (be it thematic or even gameplay).
And I watch the one with the same opinions/playstyle for those games that I will most likely not play myself but have some interest about (be it social-based or just general). This allows me to "play" the game the same way I would've played it w/o, well, playing it
The 2 biggest examples of this are Asmon and CohhCarnage. Asmon's views on games are quite different from mine so I watch him to check my bias for stuff. His chat's opinion only adds another lvl of that "check". Cohh's playstyle is almost exactly like mine (explores every nook and cranny and appreciates the story so never skips it) so I can watch him play games that I don't have the money or the time for and I would still feel as if I've played those games.
There's obviously the mechanical part of playing the game, but if I'm interested in that I'm most likely gonna play it myself and just won't watch the stream of it.
Oh, and there's also the "enrichment" streamers. Those who might be close to my gameplay, but go even deeper in some places and unveil stuff that I might've completely missed. For me that's MurderOfBirds with his Genshin streams. He's way deeper into the lore of the game and knows connections of characters that I sometime miss.
There's also the "re-experience the hype/emotionality" part of the equation. But that usually applies more to clips of streams rather than full vods.
Clips I can understand. A good clip is information rich - high signal to noise ratio.
To me, a stream is the exact opposite.
If I were wanting to experience the story of a game (specifically a time consuming game like an RPG), and I was not going to play it, I'd perhaps watch clips that go over said story.
If I had the time to watch a livestream for the story of a game, I have the time to play it to experience it first hand.
I can understand the money aspect of it, but again, if I am unwilling to spend money on a game, I would be unwilling to put the amount of time in watching a stream - clips would be the way to go again.
The only people I know that watch gaming streams are some nephews of mine. But even then, they only do that when they have screen time, but are not allowed to use it for playing games.
Obviously, many people watch streams. I'm not saying people are wrong for watching them. I'm just saying I dont get it.
There's also the social aspect of chatting with other like-minded people and the overall feeling of being a part of a community. And an even bigger aspect of parasocialness where this cool person is you "friend" that you get to watch/experience stuff with.
And for some people (me being my biggest example) there's the x2 speed (though I watch stuff at x2.5) at which you can consume the content, so you can get through more stuff in less time.
And as I said, it's not always games that you yourself would play. I watched the full playthrough of TLOU(2) on Cohh's stream because I had no intention of playing those games but I was interested in the bigger social discussion about them and I wanted to see why those games were praised/hated so much. And even if I pirated those games, spending several dozen hours playing them was in no way appealing to me.
Also, there's the issue of literally not having the means to play the games that are exclusive to a platform that you don't have. I'll never have a switch or a playstation, but I'm interested in seeing what their games represent because quite often they push the industry forward. And by watching streamers that play like me I can pretty much "play" those games myself.
Being part of the community the streamer creates can be a good feeling. Viewers support the streamer. They fit support roles in MMOs, like doing endless hours of crafting and gathering (cutting trees and fishing) which can be a boring activity for a professional raider.
I bet @Dygz just wanted to fish peacefully hours long in the middle of ocean and drinking rum.
Well, I want to be able to explore the entire world, repeatedly, when I wish to, without being auto-flagged as a Combatant.
And, on the Ashen Forge podcast, I would state that people who don't like the auto-flagging in the Open Seas mechanic should post on the forums.
I havent done either of those.
It's not much different than visiting other people's homes.
Depends on what I'm doing, but... I might be watching other people play while I'm playing the same game in another part of the world or on a different server.
Especially if I like the personalities and/or commentary of the steamers.
Especially true if someone is streaming while I'm at work and can watch, but can't play.
At the end of the day, it's different strokes for different folks.
what if you dont outnumber the enemy?
what if you get baited thinking you are 3 vs 1 then after you get corrupted, ships come out of nowhere and kill you.
what if you just sell with others so you dont get 3v1 ed
what if you get corrupted then you cant lose karma fast enough and someone else comes and kills you?
Pretty sure the only people still watching the "Ashen Forge" or theory forge or whatever it is called would agree with you... or they would have stopped watching.
Come to think of it... you should start a poll. lets see where this lands.
Do they only agree with each other or do they bring counter points or other view points?