Feedback: We love the open sea PvP change - now, what about open PvP zones for World Bosses?

High risk, high reward, the open sea change was one of the best possible changes Intrepid made, now, we know that on the open seas we will have unique NPCs and rewards, but the best gear and materials that are legendary tier only drop from legendary world bosses,

because of that, I would love to see the area around the legendary world bosses being open pvp zones as well, so people can't abuse the corruption system and rely on that to try to do the legendary world bosses without the risk of being killed by other Guilds

the corruption system is amazing but it should be used only for it's intended purpose: deter ganking and PKing in the open world where there is nothing to gain, I feel like Legendary World bosses fall under the same ruleset as the open seas, and because of that I would love to see this change.

I feel like similar to the open seas, this would help to protect the PvErs in the game, by alleviating the need for gankers to PK random people, since now they have the oceans and they would also have the open world bosses areas to PK, and this would make the content even more challenging, and reducing the number of people that have access to Legendary gear, making it actually Legendary and not the "endgame" set that every guild can obtain.

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Warth

see nothing mentioned on wiki, what happens if a player will cause damage to another player and an NPC kills the green one.
But it is mentioned that
"The open world PvP flagging system is designed to deter people from griefing other players"

If a team is fighting a boss and another team comes and helps the boss to kill the first green players, this is griefing, isn't it?

My assumption is that the combatant becomes corrupted.

Combatant doesn't get corruption if the monster deals the finishing blow.

Contesting a boss/resource/mob location isn't considered "griefing" either.

hleV

I swear most of these posts are carebears not dealing with the fact that it's not a PvE-centric game. Actually half of that is Dygz seeking attention by repeating how he's not gonna play the game, when literally nobody asked.

Aerlana

Probably already said but for me : stupid

people will try to come in such fight just to avoid people to get their loot. But also a strong guild could hope to methodically zerg the raid during their fight, when boss is around 25-30% and so "steal" the boss

Corruption becomes the real risk. The rewards ? the people not getting more strength (loot) but also the "steal" of the loots are the rewards.

Now, lets imagine "ok, world boss are totally free PvP area, but, what about also the major farm areas?
And in the end, back to "why corruption" ?

The corruption is not only to deter ganking
in fact... this will work only on crybabies that just want to be the basic murderhobo, not the real PvP fan... who will even find it more interesting with the booty hunter mechanics : getting red, and with high corruption will make strong players come to him to kill him... No need to look for strong people they will come at you, and still without a "consensual" situation but a real savage open world PvP.

And your idea versus "risk & reward" :

The corruption is here to make a PvP risky when you target people that are not in PvP mode like when... ready to fight bosses. raid bosses will needs consumable (so already a cost), risk to wipe, and also risk to get ganked doing it. the reward is... boss loot. people coming there get easy kills to do, and rewards for those kills... with only corruption as risk...

And yes, i think people who try to get less corruption, or a less impactfull corruption are just basic murderhobo and not PvP fan... while i remember really interesting fight on wow, on PvP server/PvP flag, majority of time, it was people, hidden/in furtivity, waiting me to be in fight, to come, cc me, enjoying to have the mobs doing its own damages on me to get a kill... If they discover that this won't be easy, they often just... get in runaway state because they have no balls to assume... How many time i saw a same rogue, ganking me during a daily, failing to have me dead in few seconds, running away... coming back in furtivity, and ganking me when i pull again... one did it more than 10 times...
And not talking about people waiting being 3-4 who didnt care to jump on lonely or duo, and then did simply camping, probably to "assert dominance" right ? running away when it turned out to be not 4v2, but 4v5.
Or ... if "grey kill" are two words anyone can say and understand what it means and often despise such behaviour exist... Again it is proof that lot of "open world PvP fan" are just no balls people who wants to flex...
I mean, on BDO, look at karma, it is not even so damaging (just don't go with your top stuff...) and it remains people able to cry that "karma just makes a good pvp impossible" They don't want any risk, they want freekill for their youtube video... how many of those video are boring just because it is around flexing, and never show time where fight are interesting (maybe because they ran away when they didnt have the freekill each time? :-° )

meanwhile as i say, as adept to have sometime open world PvP, i do it for interesting fight, and i find corruption a great thing for it ! and i know many others will just won't care if their name is purple or red at all.

Liniker

Aerlana wrote: »

meanwhile as i say, as adept to have sometime open world PvP, i do it for interesting fight, and i find corruption a great thing for it ! and i know many others will just won't care if their name is purple or red at all.

I think you don't understand the corruption system. It's not BDO that you can live the "red life" you can not Not Care about it.

Your character literally becomes physically weaker all his stats will drop to the point it is impossible to pvp a low level... plus you will lose HOURS of grind to get the XP back up each time you die, plus gear drop...

Corruption is meant, and Will deter PK, they explained it clearly before: You will only PK every now and then in EXTREME cases killing someone you really hate

it's not meant to be a mechanic to use to wipe out other groups during a boss fight.

CROW3

When Team A has engaged a boss, corruption makes it riskier for Team B to engage Team A to try and take over the boss fight. This seems appropriate, as the disrupting Team B is either trying to steal the kill or simply cause Team A to fail. Now if Team A flags up to Team B in an effort to fight two fronts, there’s a lower chance of corruption, and is pretty much a straight up fight. Team B has the much easier route in this fight, as the burden of the boss is carried by Team A until enough of that team has been killed to transfer the threat to Team B’s MT. It’s fine if Team B wants to do this, there’s just a cover at the door at the cost of some corruption to some players. So the pay the man and move in. Hockey enforcers do their job and take their box accordingly.

What you’re proposing is to be disruptive (taking the easier path) to a team that doesn’t engage you without any consequence (with lower risk). I don’t see added risk for the potential reward there. I just see MO2, not Ashes. There’s nothing wrong with MO2, it’s a fun bare-knuckle brawler.

It’s just not where Ashes is pointed IMO.

Liniker

CROW3 wrote: »

What you’re proposing is to be disruptive (taking the easier path) to a team that doesn’t engage you without any consequence (with lower risk). I don’t see added risk for the potential reward there. I just see MO2, not Ashes. There’s nothing wrong with MO2, it’s a fun bare-knuckle brawler.

It’s just not where Ashes is pointed IMO.

well, there will be world bosses in the open seas with no flagging system, do you consider that MO2 and not Ashes? bc that's where ashes is pointed as of this last livestream

I think it adds to the risk when there is more chances of pvp during a world boss and other people don't need to worry about a flagging system

Dygz

hleV wrote: »

I swear most of these posts are carebears not dealing with the fact that it's not a PvE-centric game. Actually half of that is Dygz seeking attention by repeating how he's not gonna play the game, when literally nobody asked.

LMFAO
If y'all stop bitching about me saying I'm not playing the game, no one will be talking about me not playing the game.
People love the Open Seas PvP change. We agree on that, regardless of whether I'm playing, so focus on that.

MaiWaifu

I think from a fantasy standpoint, I wouldn't want a world boss to have an open PvP area around it before or during the fight. If it's a world ending evil, why on Verra would we choose to kill each other instead of band together to fight it first at least?

Maybe after it is dead the area around it can become a free flagging zone to back stab eachother for the loot.

Ludullu

MaiWaifu wrote: »

I think from a fantasy standpoint, I wouldn't want a world boss to have an open PvP area around it before or during the fight. If it's a world ending evil, why on Verra would we choose to kill each other instead of band together to fight it first at least?

Maybe after it is dead the area around it can become a free flagging zone to back stab eachother for the loot.

Because it's gonna be a competitive game with limited resources. If literally everyone could get the loot from the boss just by participating - of course people would cooperate. But when you have 1-2 gear pieces and some mats for the same pieces dropping from the boss, while no one on the server has that tier of gear - you bet your ass everyone will fight for it because they wanna be better/faster/stronger than their opponent.

Asraiel

Dygz wrote: »

What Steven means is that the Open Waters are more dangerous in terms of higher chance to engage in PvP combat. But, the death penalties are reduced, so that's reduced risk.

? high chance?
if i remember correct the map was enlarged to 1200 km2 and the landmass will be 450 km2 meaning the sea is 750 km2 that i wouldnt say is a high chance of comming across someonme else.

but on sea there are no mountain or trees to hide in and ships will be seen from far away so that sneaking thru becomes impossible however even if spotting a ship you first need to makeit to it before it does drive into savety.

but i like the change to the sea beeing pvp so no need to care for corruption since there are allredy obsticals in the way and ships ofter will carry more than only 1 person, more like a group or a raid and so fights are more tactical than simply jumping out of a bush on someone that currently fights with a mob.

so on sea the chance of getting spottet will be high, the chance for an encounter will be low if not both wanna pvp it out. or the target doesnt pay attention to its suroundings.

Hope there will be some sea world bosses and some sea dungeons that lure peoples to it to increase the amounts of encounters.

Dygz wrote: »

hleV wrote: »

I swear most of these posts are carebears not dealing with the fact that it's not a PvE-centric game. Actually half of that is Dygz seeking attention by repeating how he's not gonna play the game, when literally nobody asked.

LMFAO
If y'all stop bitching about me saying I'm not playing the game, no one will be talking about me not playing the game.
People love the Open Seas PvP change. We agree on that, regardless of whether I'm playing, so focus on that.

even do i do like the sea pvp change i must partly agree with the prequotet. on mainly every change from the AoC that the wiki discribes, that are made by other followers you act like the Gardian protector not wanna allow the slightes change, only if it is done by king steven.

but thats just my opinion in total there is mainly you Dygz and Crow3 that RPing the Gardian Protactors.
those that follow the project and those that are active in the forum theres a huge diffrent in counts while in forum around 200 lads discuss matters are there several k lads following AoC. so everything we say is alredy only a tiny tiny minority of what the lads following the Project think. or like it would translate from my language:

Alles was wir hier sagen und diskutieren hat nicht einmal die Grösse eines Fliegenschisses.
Everything we say and discuss here is not even the size of a fly shit. (google translator)

Have a happy day

Dygz

Asraiel wrote: »

on sea there are no mountain or trees to hide in and ships will be seen from far away so that sneaking thru becomes impossible however even if spotting a ship you first need to make it to it before it does drive into savety.

We’ll have to see about Stealth ships.
But, I expect speed ships as well.

Asraiel wrote: »

i like the change to the sea beeing pvp so no need to care for corruption since there are allredy obsticals in the way and ships ofter will carry more than only 1 person, more like a group or a raid and so fights are more tactical than simply jumping out of a bush on someone that currently fights with a mob.

Yep.

Asraiel wrote: »

so on sea the chance of getting spottet will be high, the chance for an encounter will be low if not both wanna pvp it out. or the target doesnt pay attention to its surroundings.

Hope there will be some sea world bosses and some sea dungeons that lure peoples to it to increase the amounts of encounters.

The whole point of auto-flagging in the Open Seas is because there are unique NPCs and unique treasure-finding opportunities, so…
We should be expecting people to congregate in those areas.
Probably similar for the best fishing spots in the Open Seas.

Asraiel wrote: »

even do i do like the sea pvp change i must partly agree with the prequotet. on mainly every change from the AoC that the wiki discribes, that are made by other followers you act like the Gardian protector not wanna allow the slightes change, only if it is done by king steven.

Not really. I say things are unlikely to change and if something does change significantly, expect a significant delay for launch.

Asraiel wrote: »

everything we say is alredy only a tiny tiny minority of what the lads following the Project think.

Asraiel wrote: »

Alles was wir hier sagen und diskutieren hat nicht einmal die Grösse eines Fliegenschisses.
Everything we say and discuss here is not even the size of a fly shit. (google translator)

Have a happy day

Haha! Nice!
And, yes… Have Fun!

CROW3

Liniker wrote: »

well, there will be world bosses in the open seas with no flagging system, do you consider that MO2 and not Ashes? bc that's where ashes is pointed as of this last livestream.

Yes, and the difference between an ocean raid encounter and a land raid encounter where Team B attempts to disrupt Team A, is when you’re dead you have an open ocean between you and that battle and no boat. That risk of time loss might just win me over for additional risk in the open sea encounters.

But, you’re question is about land, not sea, right?

I think it adds to the risk when there is more chances of pvp during a world boss and other people don't need to worry about a flagging system

Ok, great. I don’t think the risk of pvp in a pvp-focused game is additional risk, it’s just table stakes. 🤷‍♂️

MaiWaifu

NiKr wrote: »

Because it's gonna be a competitive game with limited resources. If literally everyone could get the loot from the boss just by participating - of course people would cooperate. But when you have 1-2 gear pieces and some mats for the same pieces dropping from the boss, while no one on the server has that tier of gear - you bet your ass everyone will fight for it because they wanna be better/faster/stronger than their opponent.

Yeah, I agree from a gameplay perspective, I wouldn't want world bosses to give out participation trophies but I mean from an in world perspective; I would like to hope world bosses actually have a negative impact on surrounding nodes if they're not defeated (topple cities, prevent caravans, destroy local wildlife, migrate to other nodes etc).

I feel like a world boss should encourage people to work together. I don't think they should be open PvP zones from the get-go.

If people decide they want to backstab eachother afterwards, I feel like that's fair and why I'd be okay with after it's dead becoming an open zone. Unless rare drops get announced ingame, I don't think anyone will know who received what rewards from the encounter. Attacking each other willy nilly immediately after could result in a guild war.

A downside to open PvP would be that world bosses would become exclusively guild content. You wouldn't jump in as a solo just to get obliterated by massive guilds as a straggler.

Ludullu

MaiWaifu wrote: »

I would like to hope world bosses actually have a negative impact on surrounding nodes if they're not defeated (topple cities, prevent caravans, destroy local wildlife, migrate to other nodes etc).

Even if they do, literally any self-respecting strong guild will be trying to kill the boss as soon as possible, so you might not even feel the effects, unless they appear before the boss respawns.

MaiWaifu wrote: »

A downside to open PvP would be that world bosses would become exclusively guild content. You wouldn't jump in as a solo just to get obliterated by massive guilds as a straggler.

As they should. This game is not made for solo players. A lot of the content will be party-based, classes will be balanced for party play, looting rights are determined by dmg done so any solo player will always lose to parties.

You want to participate in big content? Join a guild. Socialize.

MaiWaifu

NiKr wrote: »

Even if they do, literally any self-respecting strong guild will be trying to kill the boss as soon as possible, so you might not even feel the effects, unless they appear before the boss respawns.

This makes me wonder if IS will force failure mechanics and event chains. For example, access to higher difficulty content being locked behind world boss failure to prevent events.

- Can't get into the Dragon's Lair with even better loot because you killed it before it flew there and opened the passage.

- Specific enemy varieties / gathering locations are unavailable because the world boss which spawns them is dead.

If they do add failure mechanics like this, it might actually be reasonable to make world bosses PvP zones since higher level players might want to prevent losing access to this harder content.

Ludullu

MaiWaifu wrote: »

If they do add failure mechanics like this, it might actually be reasonable to make world bosses PvP zones since higher level players might want to prevent losing access to this harder content.

And if they do decide to do this, they better never tell us about it, because people will just minmax the hell out of it.

CROW3

MaiWaifu wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

Even if they do, literally any self-respecting strong guild will be trying to kill the boss as soon as possible, so you might not even feel the effects, unless they appear before the boss respawns.

This makes me wonder if IS will force failure mechanics and event chains. For example, access to higher difficulty content being locked behind world boss failure to prevent events.

- Can't get into the Dragon's Lair with even better loot because you killed it before it flew there and opened the passage.

- Specific enemy varieties / gathering locations are unavailable because the world boss which spawns them is dead.

If they do add failure mechanics like this, it might actually be reasonable to make world bosses PvP zones since higher level players might want to prevent losing access to this harder content.

I remember Dave Georgeson talking about this type of story telling via global events unfolding in the EQN days. There could be four stages to a legendary encounter, and on one server a guild killed the dragon - stopping the evolution at stage 2. On another server the dragon wiped out a node, revealing a previously unknown entrance to a whole underground raid, the 3rd evolution.

I thought the whole idea was intriguing, as over time it would make one server dramatically different than another.

Nerror

No thanks to open pvp around world bosses. If you want to contest, war dec the opposing guild(s) or risk corruption. Or simply out-dps them. We already have the tools to contest in a way that makes sense.

Rando88

MaiWaifu wrote: »

I think from a fantasy standpoint, I wouldn't want a world boss to have an open PvP area around it before or during the fight. If it's a world ending evil, why on Verra would we choose to kill each other instead of band together to fight it first at least?

Maybe after it is dead the area around it can become a free flagging zone to back stab eachother for the loot.

This is how I was thinking too. If a boss comes to threaten the world everyone would team up to defeat it. If one team decides to kill the other team you should get corrupted.

Ocean change makes sense, this wouldnt though. Make some bosses appear in the ocean and everyone wins.

Dygz

There are some bosses in the Open Seas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_1q7Djv-Lw&t=4243s

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