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Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
To me, the different voices all trying to change the game in their direction are a symptom of the actual biggest problem the game has, they are not the problem itself.
The problem is a lack of focus for the game, and specifically messaging about the game to the community.
Ashes is claiming to be a PvX game, yet everything we hear about it is expanding the PvP aspects of the game more and more.
The game is set to be for seasoned MMO players that are up for being subject to loss on a continual basis, having to work to get anything and often having the greats of that work stripped away - and yet it wants to appeal to people so casual they cant have 10 minutes of travel time and so need a family summons.
The REASON Ashes has so many different voices trying to get the game to go in a specific direction is because the game has made claims at different times of heading in different directions.
This is Ashes biggest issue - it seems to not quite know what it wants to be. It wants to be a PvX game, but seems to only be focusing on PvP.
This was also New Worlds biggest issue. If the game knew what it wanted to be, all those people with all those voices wouldn't have bothered. When you see a game that is set on being PvP and makes no concession at all to PvE, people dont sit there complaining that the game isn't PvE enough. They only do this if they have reason for thinking the game is going to somewhat suit their play preferences.
When you have a game that has developers that make statements that appeal both to players like Dygz and George (two people that probably won't ever find a home in the same game), you have a game that at the very least, doesn't have it's messaging down.
Now, A lot of people are going to disagree with me on this, and that's fine. As a point of proof though, I want to present two games - one that is released, and one that is in development.
The game that has been released in Crowfall. There were never any serious voices telling the developers they need to make the game more PvE friendly. The game was very clear from it's announcement that it was a PvP game. The game released as a PvP game (for better or worse).
The second game is Pantheon. This is a game that is blatant about being a PvE game. You don't see a whole lot of people saying they need to make the game more PvP friendly.
Both of these games have their messaging down, and had that from the very start. As such, the communities each game built were full of the correct players - players that were actually a part of the games target demographic.
New World never really had that. It tried to appeal to too many groups of players, and as a result it appealed to none. Some people like to blame the players that were complaining about how the game was for this, and that is somewhat understandable. However, if the developers knew what their game was, and had faith in what their game was, their messaging from the very beginning would have made sure that the community was only made up of the players that were the games target.
Ashes very clearly has too wide a community right now. It is heading in to a New World situation (though I don't see Intrepid making such vast changes to the game). This isn't the fault of the people in the community, it is the fault of the messaging that drew people in to the community.
As a final point as to how bad Ashes messaging is, can anyone say for certain whether this game will see more of a focus on player skill in PvP or in PvE?
Obviously people are going to have opinions on this question, but I doubt anyone (including Steven) can actually answer this question today.
But you can't really "achieve more" against a mob that was specifically designed around you having achieved that already. And the "<10%" difficulty would indicate that Intrepid want to create bosses that are meant to push those overachieving players to their limit.
Now there's a question of how in the living fuck Intrepid's planning on succeeding with that goal (that is if they want to keep bosses open world), but that's a whole different discussion that's probably months (if not years) out. We haven't heard a single word on this front and I'd definitely love if Intrepid fixed that.
The logical assumption to make here is that Intrepid haven't worked this out themselves yet. Logically, they would not release as much information about PvP as they have without also releasing some information about PvE, if they had it, and if they want the game to remain a PvX game.
My understanding is that no experienced PvE focused MMO developer will work with Steven as his lead (seemingly, he is almost the same to work for as he is to deal with in a game - look up his own opinions on what he is/was like as a player), I have serious doubts the PvE game will ever actually materialize in any manner other than what L2 had.
Your opinion here may well be a popular one, but it is based on other games, rather than being based on Ashes. It is - I am sure you agree - also based on assumptions that we can't really make.
The interesting thing about Ashes PvE (what little we know about it), is that it has many things that would appeal to PvE players that are playing instance based PvE now. The concepts of content drops being based
on how well you perform on the content, and the concept of content that has various mechanics change would be absolutely fantastic in an instanced PvE setting.
In a setting like Ashes though, an open world, PvP enabled setting, they are both pointless, and potentially even negative mechanics to have.
Indeed.
To me - others may well disagree - this is both the biggest issue the game has, but is also what is going to result in even more people trying to drag the game in different directions.
I don't personally see how people can say the issue is the voices of the many, when the very reason those voices even exist is Intrepid themself.
I mean, people will always argue for the game to be the best version of what they think that game is supposed to be. If there are people arguing in vastly different directions, then people have vastly different ideas of what the game is trying to be.
When you dont like it, you are free to go.
I think is better to have the PvP and PvE players on the same server.
Having PvE servers would force the developers to create content in a different way and try to be competitive with all the other great PvE mmos who focus on them as main audience. The rules of what make a PvE mmo good are dictated by a different audience and the developers who know how to milk them.
The difference will not be just how the corruption is balanced.
Caravan system will most likely fall apart.
Sieges which destroy their homes will make no sense for them either. You do not attract PvE players with great content and still letting PvP sieges in game. NPC sieges maybe but tuned down so that players can still defend the node easily.
Then you end up with a different game as I do not see a team of developers making PvE servers competitive with other MMOs and then keeping and working on the PvP game vision too.
Then let's see what the mindset of those PvE players would be. What do they want?
Is it obtaining the high level gear the purpose?
To help them feel that they work on their objective of acquiring that and not wasting time running on the map, the AoC devs should add fast travel, ways to find a team with random players fast, even from other servers. Without PvP sieges, not having cross-realm interaction would be illogical. Why make player owned nodes if they do not fight each-other?
Those cause all the problems with the server merges. PvE players have absolutely no reason to accept separate servers and forced server merges with all the consequences upon the market and guilds.
Separate servers also prevent friends playing together if one starts later on an open server.
AoC has the challenge that it tries to attract PvE players who still search for that PvE mindset: the purpose of what they do.
And whatever their purpose is when they login, if the PvP-er can prevent them, is bad.
AoC must highlight more on selling that it offers the game-play and not the traditional objectives PvE-ers get in other games
And this objective, of working together to save the city must bring together both PvP-ers and PvE-ers.
The corruption system feels not designed for this, because it mentions only green, purple and red and nothing about citizens of the same node.
When players see PvP they assume other players close to them will kill them.
And I assume that actually citizens will have a reason to protect each-other even if they are not in the same guild.
But I do not see much concern on PvP-er side about this on this forum. They are only concerned that they lose the PvP aspect. What is the objective of the PvP? To loot the other player?
If you guys want to be able to kill the citizens of your own node (for PvP reasons) or be able to harvest safely resources near another node (for PvE reasons), then I think the game fails to achieve it's main purpose and will face direct competition with the other MMOs more fiercely as it will not stand out from the crowd with anything specific.
so why are you here man? that's beyond me, if you don't like the design what are you doing here hoping they will eventually change it? Final Fantasy 14 is an amazing game, go play it - or wait for the riot MMO, it's simple
What did intrepid add to the game, that we didn't know about in 2017 that made it more PvP and not PvX ?
the open seas? where they Literally - increased the SIZE of the World expanding all the continents and PVE content as well? and decided to have exclusive NPCs and World Bosses (PVE) within international waters as an OPTIONAL Opt In content that you can chose not to participate - while giving you all the coastal waters (expanded) that you can still fish and do all the PVE activities while protected by the corruption system?
is that not PvX? if you agree with Dygz on this and think they are going away from PvX because of this change... I'm sorry but you guys don't understand the meaning of PvX and backed the wrong game.
PvX is NOT having separated PvP and PvE content, it is having forced PvE content merged inside of PvP content and forced PvP content inside of PvE content. (sure, you have some pvp only content like arenas, or some pve only content like social organizations or religions - but I'm talking about the general design)
There is no argument you can make that Ashes is not PvX or doesn't know what it wants to be.
Cool, so, where does PvE come in to it?
Or is Steven's vision of PvX really just PvP?
I mean, you seem to be claiming that you know, so tell us.
Why are you jumping to conclusions about my preferences? You read what I said, took it as a personal attack, and then tried to push me towards something else. Did I specify what design decisions? No. Did I say "pvp will kill the game"? No. Stop trying to project your own misery and misgivings onto me. Better ask yourself why tf you're here, instead of getting ass mad at someone else's thoughts.
Dumb design choices will always cause people to leave and it doesn't matter if you think it's good or bad. Once more in case you're too dense to understand this. I didn't give a design choice.that is bad. All I did was say DUMB CHOICES are what is going to be bad for the game. Now get off your high horse and stop trying to fight phantoms that aren't there.
He jumped on your comment because it's so vague and pointless that anyone could read it any which way.
bro, im literally having a nice hot chocolate, with my girl in a rainy sunday watching my favourite tv show, I couldn't be in a better mood lol
trying to guess what other people's feelings are from what we type in a videogame's forums comment section is... not a good idea
Dude, chill!
The hostility in this post is debilitating.
Good ideas can come from people with a different desired end state, and some of those ideas may shift the course slightly away from where you want the game to land-but that’s not necessarily a bad thing.
If a player wants to be able to grief the bejeezus out of other players and sees AoC as a game ripe for doing that—I hope mechanics are in place to prevent that—and it appears that the bones are there for it.
If a player wants no PvP whatsoever and to solo all content, well this probably won’t be the game for them—and ideas that push it in that direction will likely not be implemented.
So ultimately, viewing these suggestions (whatever the source) through the lens of: will this help the game meet the stated intent and mission or will it change that stated end and mission is probably the sane and rational approach.
But it’s fair to be worried about what the masses will push for, for sure.
Depends on the decision. Look at New World. They did a 180 on what they were trying to do originally and the whole game suffered for it. That's just one of the bad decisions but probably the biggest for that game. A more recent one is OW2 and the phone issue (which apparently got fixed but that damage is done) and while it's not technically a game issue it was still a bad decision to set things up like that. There's tons in ESO to the point i'd have to pull out the archive.
It's vague for a reason as we don't know what decision is going to be bad right now. We do know that one thing was bad, the old combat, which got changed to what it is now. I can't say that "animal husbandry is bad because I can't kiss my monkey squirrel to give it wings" since NO ONE has actively used it yet...though kissing it to give it wings does sound pretty neat.
As a veteran MMO gamer who's played quite a few games, seen the commonalities of short-comings and poor execution et cetera, Steven, being a fellow gamer, I hope shares, from experience, the things that worked well, and those things that didn't work. In that I have some confidence the direction is sound.
Don't try to make Ashes of Creation a game for as many people as possible. You will fail.
Don't stray from the main core genre and theme of the game. You will fail.
Don't release the game until it's ready. You will fail.
Don't introduce anything Pay to Win. You will fail.
Don't be lax in fixing exploits and tracking down and destroying botters and RMTers. or.. You will fail.
Don't make the game too easy, handing out a lot of free stuff in events that will blow the balance of the game. You will fail.
Don't introduce items (either functional or cosmetic) into the game that goes against the main lore and theme of the game. You will fail.
Don't put in a quest to kill 10 rats. You will fail!
Don't have repetitive grind-fests killing the same mob over and over again to only progress in minute increments until one's eyes bleed. You will fail.
Don't put in mob spawn timers that creates a line of campers for hours and days on end just to have the mob spawn in order for one to have a chance to progress their epic weapon. You will fail.
Don't trivialize your world with fast travel. You will fail.
Just some.... hehehe
I agree with the sentiment but there is one argument against this. Yes Stephen is making his dream game, and it sounds perfect to a number of people following it. But if it doesn't appeal to a large enough player base for it's profits to cover expenses... The game will die.
He can't independently fund the game forever.
100k players not enough? Really?
@NiKr
"Nah, we gotta take the high road. We listen to both sides and then prove them wrong through actions. If you made the extreme sides out to be Mordor - they'll behave like it."
"Exactly, the game survives on its community. If a good portion of the community can prove that the game can exist with owpvp w/o turning into a toxic grieffest - people will come and play the game."
These are the 2 best statements I have read on these forums regarding sentiment. We shouldn't choose who we listen to, just what we listen to.
Yes, everybody should be ganked, even the gankers!
This is just a game like any other, there's scouting, there's gathering intel, there's the hunt after the guy, there's collaboration between people involved and their neighbours... all those things generate self arising content.
Such content can not be programmed by any company, this content comes directly from the players and it's the best content.
This sounds amazing and engaging, the PVE carebears can befriend people.
People should not play this game as a single player, they have to consider the other players as part of the problem but also part of the solution. If you can't fight you should try diplomacy, that's the whole point of the human interaction and no company can program that.
The players have to do a better job in being players.
The nodes will be upgraded through pve activities, this is really scary to me, because a bunch of PVE bot aspirant carebears will go for this power grab in the upgrade mechanics. The carebears are the cogs of war in AoC because of that... they have to be dealt with somehow.
This is not a pvp vs pve game, this is a game which people should work together and know their roles in the collaboration for creating a great node.
PVP people, specially the gankers, are the solution to defend your node against another agressive and opressive carebearing node. The bot aspirant pve carebear node will be upgraded and make your node a vassal node, then your node will pay taxes and xp to the carebears!! Hello?
We have to gank them over and over because the vassal node can't declare war against he main node!
Where there is monopolization of violence there is opression because you have no tools to fight back.
The nodes will be upgraded through pve activities, this is really scary to me, because a bunch of PVE bot aspirant carebears will go for this power grab in the upgrade mechanics. The carebears are the cogs of war in AoC because of that... they have to be dealt with somehow.
This is not a pvp vs pve game, this is a game which people should work together and know their roles in the collaboration for creating a great node.
Well don't worry too much, I am a PVP to the T, but I still need to hit max level, then become economically powerful, then help my mates hit max level, then get augments, then maintain and upgrade my gear, all of that gives the node im in EXP, plus PVP also creates exp. So ya hardcore PVE players may focus grind exp but it shouldn't balance out to such an extreme that they make THE difference.
@Noaani
Obviously Steven is gonna have to do some juggling here and maybe that means we lose out on some promises, but in reality to point to the lack of message in the game seems wrong as well. Steven has made it clear its PVX and thus brought PVP and PVE voices to the arena so yes loud voices are a problem regardless of how clear their message is. Understanding how Steven wants to implement that message may take too long and I think an average joe showing up may not understand the message yes, but I think people following the game do know what the message is.
AOC is a PVX, risk vs reward, community driven game. Players, NPC's, mobs, and your environment will drive your decisions every time you logon, freedom of developer guided choice will be the content style.
You want to know what the PVE content will be like, take your highest expectations and divide it in half, want to know the PVP content will be like, take your highest expectations and divide it in half. The expectation that a game will be a pinnacle of PVE and PVP is hopeful and would be great but to expect the absolute best will leave ya holding your breath for far too long.
We know the "message" its just longer than usual.
A game like this will drive the innovation of other games and give every future MMO a look into what they could do. It should drive several new titles with similar but improved mechanics.
This exactly, just because they are talking about some pvp type content does not make it suddenly just pvp. PvE content is always there they have said and shown dungeons, bosses, talked about world bosses, etc. Just because they are showing and talking about more PvP stuff as they continue to show more pve stuff every stream does not suddenly mean they are never talking about pve.
Every stream you see new areas to explore, new mobs, npcs and even some bits of combat from them now. If you are expecting them to detail how they are doing raids i highly doubt you are going to hear that, what mmorpg has ever shown how they are doing raids....
@NiKr You played any mmorpgs where they talk about how raid content is going to work in a game?
The next mmo that I'm kinda interested in is TL (well, outside of Ashes obviously) and we don't know shit about that game either, but from just the videos alone it seems like you basic "stand and shoot and maybe step to the side to avoid a mechanic"-type of pve.
The main difference between those 2 games and Ashes is that Steven went ahead and said that he wants to have super hardcore pve that would even have scaling difficulty based on your previous performance. That's the type of shit you gotta prove that you're even able to achieve.
I'd be interested to know how Lost Ark promoted itself back when it was just coming out in Korea. They seem to care about their pve difficulty so I'd assume they showed at least an encounter or two to show what kind of difficulty would be expected in the game.
And as for Ashes, we'll obviously test pve during alpha2 but I'm just curious, will the devs start laying out the tracks right before our "train" or have they already done some work on the harder pve encounters and could show off at least one mob or boss who has an above average AI or at least a complex set of abilities and moves.
i hope aoc (including alpha), tl, d4 and riot mmo dont all come out at the same time T_T