As the great majority of Ashes community, i dont think active blocking should be in the game, and seeing it in the showcase trully concerns me. Instead of spreading hate, i would like to propose another idea to blocking. As said, weapons will have a skill tree. What if, at lv.1 of all weapons and shields, theres a "BLOCK" skill. The skill "BLOCK" could consume mana (or other resource), have a cooldown and last for 1 to 2 second (while blocking players cant cast any other skills). This way, blocking will be more important and player will have to consider where the best time to use it.
How do you feel about the direction the Tank archetype is taking, based on what we shared during the January Development Update?
- Never played as Tank, but i liked to see the tank showcase.
What are your thoughts regarding the Tank abilities shown in the January livestream?
- Abilities feel nice, but cant comment much until i see all the auguments and how they will chance the abilities. In general, all abilities showed felt nice.
What are your thoughts regarding the Warhammer & shield, and 2H sword shown in the January livestream?
- Shields fell good when equiped and when blocking but, for me, BOTH the warhammer and the 2H sword felt too bright. There is too much light every attack. For a 4 man showcase it might be ok, but what about when 8x8 player happens, or worst, when GvG happens with 500 players!!! So, weapons swings could be LESS BRIGHT in my humble opnion.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Tank updates?
- As the great majority of Ashes community, i dont think active blocking should be in the game, and seeing it at the showcase trully concerns me. Instead of spreading hate, i would like to propose another idea to blocking. As said, weapons will have a skill tree with passives that increases damage and have other effects to improve this type of weapon. What if, at lv.1 of all weapons and shields, theres a "BLOCK" skill, the only active skill in the weapon tree. The skill "BLOCK" shoud consume mana (or other resource), must have a cooldown and last 1 to 2 second (while blocking players cant cast any other skills). This way, blocking will be more important and player will have to consider where the best time to use it.
I know this is lengthy but I hope you take the time to read and think about these points...
General Tank Discussion - Based on what we shared during the last Livestream, what do you like about the current direction of the Tank archetype, and what are your concerns?
Active Block:
I do like the direction of having active block as part of the design. I feel that it gives me a tanking immersion that feels impactful, especially when you block a big hit. When the animations from both the player and enemy along with the sound are done right, this actually feels really really good. I'm the kind of person who doesn't want just an ability button I push to mitigate damage like in WoW. I want to feel like I'm actually blocking a hit, similar to New World. However I also don't want to just active block either. This can get boring, and my finger hurts when your blocking too much. Abilities that build up stacks/consume stacks of some kind of resource and its management can also be fun like in Rift. Let me active block, use abilities, do ability combos and use resources to make damage mitigation fun. My experiences are mostly coming from DAoC, Wow, Rift, BDO, GW2, ESO, New World, FF14 and a handful of others. I have done some hard core raiding, mostly casual raiding, dungeons and other group content.
With that said, I believe that other means to mitigate damage need to be included in the design. Here are some suggestions for it.
1. Design enemy encounters in such a way that bosses/mobs have unique patterns in which active block is used. A few examples here (very basic) that a boss might have that I find fun as a tank:
-Tank buster that may kill you if not blocked
-Cleave that you position the boss away from the group that does a lot of damage if not blocked
-Low damage attack with a de-buff/stacks of some kind, which greatly impacts the fight if not blocked
2. Incorporate abilities that mitigate damage not just in addition to active block but actually replace the need for it, so that active block is not your only option and maybe can give you breathing room to focus on damage instead of active blocking.
3. Split damage mitigation methods to positional or protective (whatever you wanna call them). Positional would include moving the physical cleave away from the group and using active block and protective would be popping my magical bubble shielding ability to protect the group from a magical AOE attack. Some abilities could include popping a shield for physical absorption also for a group, but I feel like active block is generally more of a personal physical damage mitigation method. Considering you have melee and magical range classes, I think this would work well. Boss is about to cleave me, and anyone in melee range I have to turn boss away and active block it, and then boss does a room size magical AOE and everyone has to get into my protective bubble both melee and ranged.
4. Split damage mitigation types at minimum to physical and magical, with active block more for physical damage and magical being ability based mitigation. The boss above that does the physical attacks also has magical attacks. For these I would pop my magical shield ability, giving me more variety in damage mitigation and this time I'm not holding block.
The point here for both 3 and 4 is to make it diverse and give me options based on the fight
5. With the chaining of the stun/knockdown abilities, I can see fights incorporating the use of active blocks, magical shields, and phases where the tank can maximize its DPS capability during these stun/knockdown portions of a fight. This helps to mitigate damage while the enemy is down as a team effort, but also buys time for the tank to crank out their damaging abilities.
6. I think that active block needs to have some kind of stamina or resource. This can be fun gameplay having to manage it, but also curbs simply holding down block all the time too. Your shield can "bust" if you will.
7. I want to see how the synergy works better with other classes. While the stun/knockdown stuff is great, how will abilities with healing received bonuses or damage buffs, etc work?
8. PLEASE give me big ass shields!!! I like tower shields as big as my character!!
NOTE: Maybe some of this above, depends on if you went Primary Tank, Secondary Fighter or Primary Tank, Secondary Mage, but I hope to see some diversity here.
Abilities That Can Be Used While Using Other Abilities - During the January Livestream, we mentioned Grit (timestamp), an ability that can be used at any time. What do you like about this? What don’t you? From other games you’ve played, do you have concerns with abilities like this?
I think this just makes sense. Abilities off global cooldown are a must. Usually in most MMO's for a tanking class, I call these my "oh shit buttons" for damage mitigation. Sometimes these are used intentionally for boss fight phases and sometimes if I screwed up these are great for survivability to overcome my mistake. This is key for any tank I believe and is one aspect of tanking I do find really fun. I think these kind of abilities are fine as you need to manage these properly whether in PVP or PVE. My only concern is making these abilities "all damage". Again split these oh shit buttons into physical and magical variants or combinations of both.
Tanks in PvP - Mechanics and designs of class kits should matter in PvX (both PvE and PvP settings) was something we discussed during the last livestream (timestamp to this discussion). From other games, what do you like and what do you dislike about how tank abilities do or don’t work in PvP and PvE situations?
I have stated this somewhere already in my feedback in another forum post, but will mention it again here.
I think taunts/threat should be a thing in PVP. In every MMO threat/taunts in PVP simply does not exist. Now it might seem weird that you yell at someone (taunts being a yell or scream) in a game and "taunt" them to attack only you. Lets face it though, when someone talks shit to you in real life, they are the threat. Or at least the perceived threat and your attention is focused on them. This should be reflected in your taunt ability in PVP, only in a game the camera auto snaps to the aggressor/taunter momentarily so the tauntee knows who just taunted them and the camera then can be freely moved however the tauntee wants. The camera snap is only meant as an attention grabber like a taunt would do in real life. If someone in real life starts talking crap to me, I'm gonna immediately turn and face them to assess the threat. There will be a visual also that shows who has just taunted them for the duration of the taunt and during this time only the taunter can be attacked by the tauntee. Makes perfect sense to me, though in a game this could be an entirely crazy idea... I don't know... just trying to make taunt a relevant ability somehow in PVP.
The tank tends to be ignored in PVP, unless we are carrying a flag for example for points. I think we need protective abilities that really make a tank a threat, like group buffs within range or game modes that really lend to our damage mitigation. Please make PVP better for tanks.
Tanks in High End Raids and Dungeons - Groups will need players with primary archetype Tanks to complete challenging content. What do you like about this, and what concerns do you have? Context on this topic from the last livestream (with timestamp).
As a Tank archetype, I want to feel like my class matters. Not just in high end raids and dungeons. Steven indicated that other archetypes can tank, that it was dependent on the setting. As long as this is designed in a way that doesn't take away from the whole point of my class, I understand that groups for less challenging content may not have a full on tank archetype and that a Primary Fighter, Secondary Tank archetype can fill this role in a limited way. Yet, having a tank archetype should still be preferred over this. Otherwise the content difficulty should really increase, but not be impossible. This is where you can begin to blur the lines between Trinities and I think the archetypes need to stay mostly true to their trinity. Please don't let a fighter replace me in most content, and only make me effective in high end content
I do think that for higher end content, it should be a must to have a Primary Tank archetype. You have to give us our cake at some point and let us eat it too.
Unique Threat Mechanics - How do you feel when raid bosses or other significant NPCs have unique threat mechanics? Are there specific ones you’ve enjoyed (or strongly disliked) from other games?
Yes, give raid bosses unique Threat Mechanics. I believe there should be certain mechanics incorporated into some boss fights (not all) that force the tank to "Taunt" an enemy or build aggro again. This makes for fun tank gameplay. Here are some examples where I think this is fun:
1. Tank swapping, where some sort of debuff or stacks build and you work as a "tank team" to mitigate damage. (I have done some raid bosses, where you really plan with your other tank to determine the best strategy you will use to mitigate the damage coming out, this is actually really fun)
2. Boss with adds, where adds spawn and either the main tank or off tank must grab aggro before they kill the group
2. Boss ability resets threat table entirely and the tank must grab aggro or people start dying
3. Environment changes somehow, splits the group up and you must grab aggro for a specific phase. Like the group has to split into two groups and one tank goes with each side through a portal and has to grab aggro while ported away momentarily.
These are common examples... but things like this. I'm sure there are many ways to do it.
It might be worth reducing the threat when the tank uses the active block. This will force the player to at least not throw the active block mindlessly. I don't think this idea is great, just adding it to an ideas box.
P.S. I have no tank experience.
Active blocks in PvP can often make for static and silly gameplay. If we can get a perfect block mechanic, could there be a block-breaker mechanic as well? And if we dodge the block-breaker, could that stagger or trip in that situation? That way, the gameplay is dynamic, with a feel of rock, paper, scissors [attack/counter/ re-counter] gameplay
The general direction of the tank is looking good. Finding the balance for a tank to have fun is difficult. Abilities
That being said, the abilities certainly left a lot to be desired. Firstly if too many of the shield-based abilities, like Shield Slam, are primary threat generators I worry that non-shield abilities/builds will be dead in the water for group compositions. If Shield Tank ends up being the only viable build from a threat generation and damage mitigation standpoint then it doesn't matter that they can use any equipment under the sun, like Wow Vanilla/Classic if no one is going to use builds that don't use a shield you might as well just make it a requirement. That being said, if plenty of the other builds are at least fun, if not competitive, it would be a nice change of pace. So alternate abilities for shield abilities and other threat generators please.
Secondly, taunts! Yay taunts! An instant snap taunt is too boring most of the time, I agree on that for sure. My thoughts almost perfectly match that of Narc shudder but I've also had the idea that combo based taunting would be the best way to keep tanks engaged and ensure proper rotations. I've had that idea for years as an off-again on-again tank main. I think the combo based status effects system is very cool and, much like in Narc's video on the topic, I think could work seemlessly with taunting.
Thirdly, blocking mechanically is boring, but only if it's right click reduces damage hur-dur. A parry/perfect block mechanic sounds great, but I feel like there should also be abilities, worked into the shield tree maybe, that allow you to have some shield/mobility combo like a shield roll or other neat combinations of shield mechanics. Something that can also carry your mitigation/resistence from shielding for a couple of seconds so you could still cast a GCD or even stack with another mitigating ability, making your burst resistence very high. Warhammer and Shield
The warhammer looks great. Some extra animation for swinging while moving in other directions and I think it'll be exactly where people would want it to be while playing. I gave a lot of shield thoughts already but they are more around shielding ability. The animation is fine, maybe could use a bit of flair depending on the race/abilities used with it. Looking good General Stream Thoughts
This might have been discussed somewhere already, but I do feel like enemies, at least bosses, need to have some universal damage indicators for their abilities that are explicitly different from what player indicators look like. I need to know where enemy abilities are as a tank so I can make sure people are out of range.
A "Near Aggro" indicator should certainly be implimented. Steven and the team not being able to tell if a certain mob was going to aggro is mainly down to them not have any kind of indicator that you were getting close to their aggro ranges. Turning towards your character, having some UI element, or maybe having an ''investigating the area'' function to mobs close to aggro are all great ideas and instrumental to new players.
Camping being a complete stop and chill mechanic is fine, it brings back the old danger of back pulls if your group isn't clearing in a timely manner. I just hope there are plans for plenty of consumable options to reduce this downtime for the more impatient players. I would certainly invest the gold in some potions if it meant I didn't have to hear Nagging Ned bitch at me for the 7th time tonight about needing to drink between pulls when he doesn't because he doesn't know how to do a rotation and use mana.
Settings reccomendation for separate audio sliders for enemy abilities opposed to your abilities/hitcon and allied abilities. This is good for multiple accessability and person preference tweaks.
Great update guys! Can't wait to see more of what 2023 brings :DDD
Professional Skeptic, Entertainer, and Animal Enthusiast
Extra feedback after the office hours on the tank in regards to PvP
based in some discussions with main tanks in my community that can't come here to provide feedback due to the language barrier
CCs and skill Range
Most main Tanks can agree that in a lot of MMOs tanks suck at PvP, this is mainly because the class/archetype has low damage and more often than not is not "tanky" enough nor it has enough crowd control abilities to present a threat in PvP - they are often easily ignored and replaceable
How to fix this?
Give the Tank Plenty, I mean PLENTY of CC's, allow the tank to spec into more single target CCs and large-scale AoE CCs for different builds in PvP - CCs will assure that the tank is viable in PvP - this is the main point here
Also, this is very important, increase the range on the tank skills so it can be the initiator in PvP without having to be at melee distance, a long-range chain pull and charge is essential to be effective against ranged opponents and to initiate in PvP without having to eat damage until you are up close
Some examples of necessary CC skills for PvP:
- Grapple: Basically what you have shown, a short distance single target pull
- tier 1 Leash: a chain that pulls a single target at mid-range distance
- tier 2 Leash: a chain that pulls up to 3 targets at mid-range distance
- tier 3 Leash / augmented Leash: a chain that pulls up to 5 targets at long-range distance
Leash would have a longer cooldown, and grapple would have a shorter cooldown, so you'd get 2 pulling skills to use
- tier 1 Charge: basically Shield assault with more range
- tier 2 Charge: something similar to Shield assault but now with a longer range
- tier 3 /augmented Charge: something like Shield assault with a longer range and an AoE that pulls targets together
- Shield/weapon barrage: a short forward dash that hits the target shield/weapon - repeat the attack up to 2 hits. The last hit briefly stuns the target.
- Shield/Weapon bash: melee stun with a longer duration and no damage
- Debilitate: hits the target reducing their defence stats and temporarily disarming the target
- Wallop: jump forward and hammer the ground with your shield/weapon to inflict knockdown within an AoE
- Lockdown blow: cripple the target reducing their movement speed for X % in a set duration
Defensive skills for PvP:
- Shield Wall: a skill that will summon a wall that will stop inc ranged damage
- Reflect: temporarily reflects a % of inc damage both for magic or melee damage - very important for PvP
- Temporary Health boost: increases the tank's HP for a set amount of time
- Buffs that while active will reduce the target's defence stat stackable based on how many hits the target takes
Active Blocking
The Tank Archetype should be the most effective when Active Blocking with a shield
You can do this using the Courage resource and having a passive ability that can or can not be picked, that when you active block with a shield if you have Courage stacks you will block 100% of the inc damage and spend your courage stack
You can also give the tank another passive to improve their mitigation when active blocking with melee weapons if you don't want to use a shield, but the "perfect block" should only apply to the shield
Please, don't do timed perfect blocks like Valheim not everyone has 10ms and ping will mess up this mechanic
Something every main tank seems to agree is that we need a VERY limited stamina usage when active blocking - this applies to all classes, including the Tank and including the shield
Don't to like New World when you have a very forgiving stamina bar that you can manage and just keep your shield up during most your fights - this is very boring game design
using your active block should be something you have to THINK and pick when you want to use it, you should only be able to tank a few hits with a LONG stamina recovery time and if you break your stamina bar it should go on a even longer cooldown - weapons should only be able to block maybe 3 to 4 hits before breaking
this would make the use of active blocking situational and meaningful - and would also make it viable to not use active blocking if you don't want to, since it's a high skill cap mechanic and for the tank to be better you need to spec into those passives I discussed previously
Every skill should work in PvP
Most main tanks agree on this one - Threat and Taunts need to work in PvP, it is absolutely terrible when you get useless skills that are PvE only
You can do this with debuffs, make threat and taunt apply debuffs to your player target reducing their defense for taunt and reducing their damage for threat
Grit
This is a good resource, love it - using it wisely and stacking before activating it makes this skill something that you need to know what you are doing, it requires player skill
and because of that I think you should make it better, 15% damage reduction with the plus 15% bonus doesn't seem good enough for what this is, maybe giving some CC immunity as well or a higher defense mitigation
just making it stronger because it's something that is more complex and should reward the tank accordingly
Yo, hello there. I'm not a tank player so I just leave some opinions.
Animation and sounds:
again, as in almost every video I need to ask what are you trying to achieve with this? Is this going to be a "jap anime" type of game or more like a "wow, gw2..." type of game? You are overturning it both every time but I have no problem with it, if there will be a personal slider to knock those effects down, for me at least by half, cuz even in your preview video there are moments where the screen is completely filled with effects and it just shines - almost like flashbang in counterstrike. In more chaotic situations with more players involved, this will be unplayable.
UI:
so far I'm very happy. I love you moved to the TAB target system, this is absolutely great decision. Minimap is nailed perfectly, love the compass detail touch. Small and just informative quest tracker, there are no useless bars that just fill the space, and the non-essential stuff for gameplay is decently on the side and does not get in way of anything. Please just keep it that way, this is great work.
Since there will be no add-ons, pls make for us a personal setting where we can adjust which buffs/debuff we can see around the health bar/nameplate. For example, I'd like to have some CC stuff at some space and damage debuffs on another side etc.
tank gameplay itself:
seems good to me, I like how even tanks are forced to drink and recharge resources. This is what I was missing in wow so much, as a healer I just speed-drink midpulls, and completely lost the RPG feelings from resting. Make the game even harder so there will be strategy discussions needed, I'd love to do that during the drinking phase very much.
I have watched the preview in its entirety and here are my impressions:
The Shield Assault skill is fun and adds a unique dynamic to combat. It's interesting that it requires the use of an equipped shield. This skill is more for getting close to targets rather than knocking them back or plowing through a group.
Tremoring Bellow is already a great skill and doesn't need any changes.
I think Grit is cool and I hope Courage will mitigate effects like Fear and other negative effects.
Aegis is amazing as it is now.
The first two mob fights looked good, but I'm concerned about how quickly the mobs died. While I understand that the party has an advantage with four members, I suggest giving the mobs a flat 10% buff per party member. This would make a noticeable difference when the party is not well-organized. However, if the party has too many members, the mob will become overwhelmed and useless.
It would be interesting if the minotaurs had a warhorn to summon more minotaurs. This would give the mobs better odds, making them more challenging. The Oakenbane Resonant looks great, and if it's meant to fight parties, consider giving it a little bit of CC.
The Bough Warden performed well in combat.
The Shield Rush animation and camera give a satisfying sense of weight and impact.
I suggest adding a tank taunt that lowers the threat level of the entire party and increases the tank's threat level. It should not be a "fix any situation" skill, however. If the party messes up too much, the tank should not be able to fix the situation with a click.
I noticed that the DPS members were wrecking the mobs while they stuck to the tank. I suggest having mobs like the Oakenbane Resonant knock the tank down and switch to another target to add more challenge.
Overall, the preview was great, and the tank performed well in defending the party. The fights felt natural, like playing a finished game.
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
How do you feel about the direction the Tank archetype is taking, based on what we shared during the January Development Update?
I believe the Tank archetype is taking a great turn! After watching the video I love how the tank has the goal of taking aggro and then proceeding to mitigate damage and/or negate it. It's what I was looking for in my next MMO. The gameplay during the stream was super smooth so seeing the tank just go off on monsters has me very excited! The direction seems, again, to be aggro and damage mitigation based so I would say keep heading in that direction.
What are your thoughts regarding the Tank abilities shown in the January live stream?
The tank abilities shown in the live stream are very cool and I like the visuals. However, I believe the ability on hotkey 8 should be broadened. The area of that blue shielding ability covered four people fine but, in an area meant for 8 people it will not seemingly protect everyone especially if they are trying to stand behind you for support. Seeing how the abilities affected the area was also very visually pleasing and I love their animations. So for AOE effects or shielding purposes please widen the shielding effects to encompass more individuals. Unless multiple tanks are necessary for large-group protection. In which case maybe increase the size of the hotkey 8 ability by a quarter or half size. Simply put, I think it might need to be a smidge larger unless the size of it is meant for 4 - 5 people.
I would also like to see the tank's movement abilities. I understand the tank was only level 15 however, I want to see what his movement abilities are outside of (WASD). Does he have abilities to up his movement speed or abilities that you can combo to chase down a target? Of course, I want him to be an anchor. I understand tanks are not supposed to be speedsters but, I would like to see more movement in his kit outside of WASD if that makes sense. Not asking for him to be ranger agility just, to have a way to move quickly whether it be by ability combos or movement speed increase through abilities. Unless another class is intended to increase party movement speed.
What are your thoughts regarding the Warhammer & shield, and 2H sword shown in the January live stream?
The Warhammer and shield were a great combo and I loved seeing them in action it was wonderful all in all. I believe they flow and function greatly. The 2H sword should have a resting position if just exiting combat.
Is there anything, in particular, you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Tank updates?
I'm excited about the tank in general! Everything looks and seems great! The only thing I have concerns about is the size of the tank's abilities not being as visually large as I perceived. I don't need them covering half my screen it just seemed like they were not big enough to cover more than a party of four or five. If that is the intention then that means two tanks will be needed for a party of ten to mitigate damage properly. Also, the movement for tanks whether they get increased speed at higher levels or movement speed abilities as they level to aid in movement seems great. I just don't know if they are finalized. I want my tank to have the option to chase down a target or sit and anchor properly.
That being said I love you all and hope this helps! I loved it all so much great work Intrepid!
During the livestream today they talked about threat in PvP and I've always through that a simple and fun mechanic for PvP threat is a simple damage reduction/increase based on the amount of threat you have.
So if the tank had 20% threat on you, you'd deal 20% more damage to the tank and 20% less damage to anyone other than the tank. (Obv numbers would need tweaking / balance). So the DPS still has a choice of what to do, but they are incentivized to attack the tank and disincentivized to attack others.
How do you feel about the direction the Tank archetype is taking?
The Taunt System and protection skills are obviously traditional but generic. Can we consider moving toward an alternate form of tanking with some dynamic aspects outside of tank and spank pressing skills on cooldown with no real rhythm or diligence? For example making crowd control abilities across all classes more scarce but largely impactful with longer cooldowns adds value to tanks in disrupting dangerous PvE attacks or long cast time PvP abilities/ engagements in large scale.
I propose something a kin to Vanilla archeage where certain skills apply % increase aggro generation from damage done (but few or no straight 100% taunt success skills with long uptime) as well as rewarding a Tank Class specific resource like "mettle"[/b] with benefits when spent such as: the ability to gain aggro on a single target or aoe or healing or group protection.
This would make tank gameplay infinitely more skillful with decision making in how to spend built up stacks, of this class specific resource. This would transition smoothly into PvP because a class resource is multi purpose and not just for taunting, while also having that tank and spank simplicity for newer players.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Tank updates?
Excited to see certain debuffs like snare or slow can be chained into a knockdown when using another certain skill but diversifying the debuffs and synergy options would truly wet the mouths of competitive group PvP focused player base!
The major turn off for me personally is that the current visual and audio feedback do not create combat fluidity. In a polished game one would be able to close their eyes and hear the sounds and have a decent understanding of what classes types (and how many present)/ abilities are being used.
Adjustments could prove monumental in competitive group PvP where coordination and visual/audio feedback go hand and hand and also the case when fighting very strong boss types in PvE where certain skills or opposition needs to be mitigated or reacted accordingly! Opens opportunity to add punishing mechanics so even simple questing or solo killing mobs feels more dynamic in that players need to pay attention for dangerous patterns or moves. I think every veteran mmo enjoyer could agree they dread meaningless mob farming and wouldn't mind some dynamic or unexpected play during simple encounters.
I'm but a humble MMO enjoyer and recently joined the AoC hype train. I hope some of this feedback is helpful as I do try to provide my enthusiasm for this diminishing genre with experience at hand !
I have some thoughts which consists of a few things that a lot of others might already have mentioned.
1. Block(ing) should be a skill which costs stamina to hold (I think you guys mentioned this in the video already though which is good).
2. It seemed hard to tell when Grit was being used, might have also been a thing because the vfx was way too chaotic.
3. I was hoping for a classic taunt/shout ability to grab aggro for a few seconds in a 10-16m range, it looked like you were losing aggro quite a few times. If you want to pull a group of small mobs or even a boss you can run in first, taunt/shout and then your team can come in after you positioned them correctly.
4. Was grapple missing a skill effect? It looked like you were a mime pulling the air. I miss some kind of hook (doesn't have to be too extreme). Also I would suggest not adding rng into skills.
5. Tank damage seemed really low, I would still like to do atleast 40-60% of the damage that other dps classes do depending on how well I play.
The effects are way too much, it was chaotic and hard to tell what was going on in a lot of different cases. As last, I don't know if iframes (invincibility frames) are something you guys are adding, but they feel really satisfying with action combat. A traditional backstep iframe would be nice to dodge hard hitting attacks.
First of, I haven't read through the thread so my following post might have been covered or brought up somewhere else. I mainly just follow the livestreams and this is the first time I post on the forum since tanking is my favorite thing to do in an MMO. Second, I was overall pleased with the tank archetype and thought aegis and the other abilities seemed creative. I am sure that some of the flaws I saw has already been adressed by other posters here.
However, what I want to bring up is that I would really love to see tanks not being restricted to the usual sword-and-board. I know that whatever weapons you want to play with is up to you but I really hope it is still viable whatever you go with. For example, I'd love to see an "avoidance" specialized tank such as the knight, using a two handed weapon and relying mainly on parrying (and dodging somewhat) for avoidance or a nightshield (tank/rogue combo) which uses dual wield and dodging mainly for avoidance. This could further elaborated to have attacks that proc after a parry/dodge, e.g. knight parry into a riposte which generates extra threat or a nightshield dodging which allows a psuedo taunt to be used (+10% extra threat gain). I think you get the picture.
Anyway, that was my two cents. Quite late after the tank showcase but I've been thinking about whether I should post this or not and finally decided to do it. Can't wait for alpha 2.
maybe to make the tank more of a priority target and not get ignored in pvp is to give them a skill/ability that makes it so only they can be targeted by the enemies tabbed skills (whether it be within a range or party or what have you), but have the free aim skills be left alone?
1) The VFX from melee combat (especially that orange trails) is too much for me. It's totally understandable when mages are creating that pixel extravaganza, but for me, melee fights should be something more like windy swordplay, then a colorful carnival.
2) There is a gap between the moment sword hitting a mob and end of swing animation, where it seems like the attack freezing for a micro-moment. Because of that it feels like we are experiencing some fps drops during the fight (which is not true, but it feels like that). I hope everyone understand what I am talking about. Need to mention that ranged combat does not have that issue.
Comments
- Never played as Tank, but i liked to see the tank showcase.
What are your thoughts regarding the Tank abilities shown in the January livestream?
- Abilities feel nice, but cant comment much until i see all the auguments and how they will chance the abilities. In general, all abilities showed felt nice.
What are your thoughts regarding the Warhammer & shield, and 2H sword shown in the January livestream?
- Shields fell good when equiped and when blocking but, for me, BOTH the warhammer and the 2H sword felt too bright. There is too much light every attack. For a 4 man showcase it might be ok, but what about when 8x8 player happens, or worst, when GvG happens with 500 players!!! So, weapons swings could be LESS BRIGHT in my humble opnion.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Tank updates?
- As the great majority of Ashes community, i dont think active blocking should be in the game, and seeing it at the showcase trully concerns me. Instead of spreading hate, i would like to propose another idea to blocking. As said, weapons will have a skill tree with passives that increases damage and have other effects to improve this type of weapon. What if, at lv.1 of all weapons and shields, theres a "BLOCK" skill, the only active skill in the weapon tree. The skill "BLOCK" shoud consume mana (or other resource), must have a cooldown and last 1 to 2 second (while blocking players cant cast any other skills). This way, blocking will be more important and player will have to consider where the best time to use it.
General Tank Discussion - Based on what we shared during the last Livestream, what do you like about the current direction of the Tank archetype, and what are your concerns?
Active Block:
I do like the direction of having active block as part of the design. I feel that it gives me a tanking immersion that feels impactful, especially when you block a big hit. When the animations from both the player and enemy along with the sound are done right, this actually feels really really good. I'm the kind of person who doesn't want just an ability button I push to mitigate damage like in WoW. I want to feel like I'm actually blocking a hit, similar to New World. However I also don't want to just active block either. This can get boring, and my finger hurts when your blocking too much. Abilities that build up stacks/consume stacks of some kind of resource and its management can also be fun like in Rift. Let me active block, use abilities, do ability combos and use resources to make damage mitigation fun. My experiences are mostly coming from DAoC, Wow, Rift, BDO, GW2, ESO, New World, FF14 and a handful of others. I have done some hard core raiding, mostly casual raiding, dungeons and other group content.
With that said, I believe that other means to mitigate damage need to be included in the design. Here are some suggestions for it.
1. Design enemy encounters in such a way that bosses/mobs have unique patterns in which active block is used. A few examples here (very basic) that a boss might have that I find fun as a tank:
-Tank buster that may kill you if not blocked
-Cleave that you position the boss away from the group that does a lot of damage if not blocked
-Low damage attack with a de-buff/stacks of some kind, which greatly impacts the fight if not blocked
2. Incorporate abilities that mitigate damage not just in addition to active block but actually replace the need for it, so that active block is not your only option and maybe can give you breathing room to focus on damage instead of active blocking.
3. Split damage mitigation methods to positional or protective (whatever you wanna call them). Positional would include moving the physical cleave away from the group and using active block and protective would be popping my magical bubble shielding ability to protect the group from a magical AOE attack. Some abilities could include popping a shield for physical absorption also for a group, but I feel like active block is generally more of a personal physical damage mitigation method. Considering you have melee and magical range classes, I think this would work well. Boss is about to cleave me, and anyone in melee range I have to turn boss away and active block it, and then boss does a room size magical AOE and everyone has to get into my protective bubble both melee and ranged.
4. Split damage mitigation types at minimum to physical and magical, with active block more for physical damage and magical being ability based mitigation. The boss above that does the physical attacks also has magical attacks. For these I would pop my magical shield ability, giving me more variety in damage mitigation and this time I'm not holding block.
The point here for both 3 and 4 is to make it diverse and give me options based on the fight
5. With the chaining of the stun/knockdown abilities, I can see fights incorporating the use of active blocks, magical shields, and phases where the tank can maximize its DPS capability during these stun/knockdown portions of a fight. This helps to mitigate damage while the enemy is down as a team effort, but also buys time for the tank to crank out their damaging abilities.
6. I think that active block needs to have some kind of stamina or resource. This can be fun gameplay having to manage it, but also curbs simply holding down block all the time too. Your shield can "bust" if you will.
7. I want to see how the synergy works better with other classes. While the stun/knockdown stuff is great, how will abilities with healing received bonuses or damage buffs, etc work?
8. PLEASE give me big ass shields!!! I like tower shields as big as my character!!
NOTE: Maybe some of this above, depends on if you went Primary Tank, Secondary Fighter or Primary Tank, Secondary Mage, but I hope to see some diversity here.
Abilities That Can Be Used While Using Other Abilities - During the January Livestream, we mentioned Grit (timestamp), an ability that can be used at any time. What do you like about this? What don’t you? From other games you’ve played, do you have concerns with abilities like this?
I think this just makes sense. Abilities off global cooldown are a must. Usually in most MMO's for a tanking class, I call these my "oh shit buttons" for damage mitigation. Sometimes these are used intentionally for boss fight phases and sometimes if I screwed up these are great for survivability to overcome my mistake. This is key for any tank I believe and is one aspect of tanking I do find really fun. I think these kind of abilities are fine as you need to manage these properly whether in PVP or PVE. My only concern is making these abilities "all damage". Again split these oh shit buttons into physical and magical variants or combinations of both.
Tanks in PvP - Mechanics and designs of class kits should matter in PvX (both PvE and PvP settings) was something we discussed during the last livestream (timestamp to this discussion). From other games, what do you like and what do you dislike about how tank abilities do or don’t work in PvP and PvE situations?
I have stated this somewhere already in my feedback in another forum post, but will mention it again here.
I think taunts/threat should be a thing in PVP. In every MMO threat/taunts in PVP simply does not exist. Now it might seem weird that you yell at someone (taunts being a yell or scream) in a game and "taunt" them to attack only you. Lets face it though, when someone talks shit to you in real life, they are the threat. Or at least the perceived threat and your attention is focused on them. This should be reflected in your taunt ability in PVP, only in a game the camera auto snaps to the aggressor/taunter momentarily so the tauntee knows who just taunted them and the camera then can be freely moved however the tauntee wants. The camera snap is only meant as an attention grabber like a taunt would do in real life. If someone in real life starts talking crap to me, I'm gonna immediately turn and face them to assess the threat. There will be a visual also that shows who has just taunted them for the duration of the taunt and during this time only the taunter can be attacked by the tauntee. Makes perfect sense to me, though in a game this could be an entirely crazy idea... I don't know... just trying to make taunt a relevant ability somehow in PVP.
The tank tends to be ignored in PVP, unless we are carrying a flag for example for points. I think we need protective abilities that really make a tank a threat, like group buffs within range or game modes that really lend to our damage mitigation. Please make PVP better for tanks.
Tanks in High End Raids and Dungeons - Groups will need players with primary archetype Tanks to complete challenging content. What do you like about this, and what concerns do you have? Context on this topic from the last livestream (with timestamp).
As a Tank archetype, I want to feel like my class matters. Not just in high end raids and dungeons. Steven indicated that other archetypes can tank, that it was dependent on the setting. As long as this is designed in a way that doesn't take away from the whole point of my class, I understand that groups for less challenging content may not have a full on tank archetype and that a Primary Fighter, Secondary Tank archetype can fill this role in a limited way. Yet, having a tank archetype should still be preferred over this. Otherwise the content difficulty should really increase, but not be impossible. This is where you can begin to blur the lines between Trinities and I think the archetypes need to stay mostly true to their trinity. Please don't let a fighter replace me in most content, and only make me effective in high end content
I do think that for higher end content, it should be a must to have a Primary Tank archetype. You have to give us our cake at some point and let us eat it too.
Unique Threat Mechanics - How do you feel when raid bosses or other significant NPCs have unique threat mechanics? Are there specific ones you’ve enjoyed (or strongly disliked) from other games?
Yes, give raid bosses unique Threat Mechanics. I believe there should be certain mechanics incorporated into some boss fights (not all) that force the tank to "Taunt" an enemy or build aggro again. This makes for fun tank gameplay. Here are some examples where I think this is fun:
1. Tank swapping, where some sort of debuff or stacks build and you work as a "tank team" to mitigate damage. (I have done some raid bosses, where you really plan with your other tank to determine the best strategy you will use to mitigate the damage coming out, this is actually really fun)
2. Boss with adds, where adds spawn and either the main tank or off tank must grab aggro before they kill the group
2. Boss ability resets threat table entirely and the tank must grab aggro or people start dying
3. Environment changes somehow, splits the group up and you must grab aggro for a specific phase. Like the group has to split into two groups and one tank goes with each side through a portal and has to grab aggro while ported away momentarily.
These are common examples... but things like this. I'm sure there are many ways to do it.
P.S. I have no tank experience.
I moved your Tank feedback comments from the Office Hours post to this thread regarding Tank feedback!
Abilities
That being said, the abilities certainly left a lot to be desired. Firstly if too many of the shield-based abilities, like Shield Slam, are primary threat generators I worry that non-shield abilities/builds will be dead in the water for group compositions. If Shield Tank ends up being the only viable build from a threat generation and damage mitigation standpoint then it doesn't matter that they can use any equipment under the sun, like Wow Vanilla/Classic if no one is going to use builds that don't use a shield you might as well just make it a requirement. That being said, if plenty of the other builds are at least fun, if not competitive, it would be a nice change of pace. So alternate abilities for shield abilities and other threat generators please.
Secondly, taunts! Yay taunts! An instant snap taunt is too boring most of the time, I agree on that for sure. My thoughts almost perfectly match that of Narc shudder but I've also had the idea that combo based taunting would be the best way to keep tanks engaged and ensure proper rotations. I've had that idea for years as an off-again on-again tank main. I think the combo based status effects system is very cool and, much like in Narc's video on the topic, I think could work seemlessly with taunting.
Thirdly, blocking mechanically is boring, but only if it's right click reduces damage hur-dur. A parry/perfect block mechanic sounds great, but I feel like there should also be abilities, worked into the shield tree maybe, that allow you to have some shield/mobility combo like a shield roll or other neat combinations of shield mechanics. Something that can also carry your mitigation/resistence from shielding for a couple of seconds so you could still cast a GCD or even stack with another mitigating ability, making your burst resistence very high.
Warhammer and Shield
The warhammer looks great. Some extra animation for swinging while moving in other directions and I think it'll be exactly where people would want it to be while playing. I gave a lot of shield thoughts already but they are more around shielding ability. The animation is fine, maybe could use a bit of flair depending on the race/abilities used with it. Looking good
General Stream Thoughts
This might have been discussed somewhere already, but I do feel like enemies, at least bosses, need to have some universal damage indicators for their abilities that are explicitly different from what player indicators look like. I need to know where enemy abilities are as a tank so I can make sure people are out of range.
A "Near Aggro" indicator should certainly be implimented. Steven and the team not being able to tell if a certain mob was going to aggro is mainly down to them not have any kind of indicator that you were getting close to their aggro ranges. Turning towards your character, having some UI element, or maybe having an ''investigating the area'' function to mobs close to aggro are all great ideas and instrumental to new players.
Camping being a complete stop and chill mechanic is fine, it brings back the old danger of back pulls if your group isn't clearing in a timely manner. I just hope there are plans for plenty of consumable options to reduce this downtime for the more impatient players. I would certainly invest the gold in some potions if it meant I didn't have to hear Nagging Ned bitch at me for the 7th time tonight about needing to drink between pulls when he doesn't because he doesn't know how to do a rotation and use mana.
Settings reccomendation for separate audio sliders for enemy abilities opposed to your abilities/hitcon and allied abilities. This is good for multiple accessability and person preference tweaks.
Great update guys! Can't wait to see more of what 2023 brings :DDD
Professional Skeptic, Entertainer, and Animal Enthusiast
based in some discussions with main tanks in my community that can't come here to provide feedback due to the language barrier
CCs and skill Range
Most main Tanks can agree that in a lot of MMOs tanks suck at PvP, this is mainly because the class/archetype has low damage and more often than not is not "tanky" enough nor it has enough crowd control abilities to present a threat in PvP - they are often easily ignored and replaceable
How to fix this?
Give the Tank Plenty, I mean PLENTY of CC's, allow the tank to spec into more single target CCs and large-scale AoE CCs for different builds in PvP - CCs will assure that the tank is viable in PvP - this is the main point here
Also, this is very important, increase the range on the tank skills so it can be the initiator in PvP without having to be at melee distance, a long-range chain pull and charge is essential to be effective against ranged opponents and to initiate in PvP without having to eat damage until you are up close
Some examples of necessary CC skills for PvP:
- Grapple: Basically what you have shown, a short distance single target pull
- tier 1 Leash: a chain that pulls a single target at mid-range distance
- tier 2 Leash: a chain that pulls up to 3 targets at mid-range distance
- tier 3 Leash / augmented Leash: a chain that pulls up to 5 targets at long-range distance
Leash would have a longer cooldown, and grapple would have a shorter cooldown, so you'd get 2 pulling skills to use
- tier 1 Charge: basically Shield assault with more range
- tier 2 Charge: something similar to Shield assault but now with a longer range
- tier 3 /augmented Charge: something like Shield assault with a longer range and an AoE that pulls targets together
- Shield/weapon barrage: a short forward dash that hits the target shield/weapon - repeat the attack up to 2 hits. The last hit briefly stuns the target.
- Shield/Weapon bash: melee stun with a longer duration and no damage
- Debilitate: hits the target reducing their defence stats and temporarily disarming the target
- Wallop: jump forward and hammer the ground with your shield/weapon to inflict knockdown within an AoE
- Lockdown blow: cripple the target reducing their movement speed for X % in a set duration
Defensive skills for PvP:
- Shield Wall: a skill that will summon a wall that will stop inc ranged damage
- Reflect: temporarily reflects a % of inc damage both for magic or melee damage - very important for PvP
- Temporary Health boost: increases the tank's HP for a set amount of time
- Buffs that while active will reduce the target's defence stat stackable based on how many hits the target takes
Active Blocking
The Tank Archetype should be the most effective when Active Blocking with a shield
You can do this using the Courage resource and having a passive ability that can or can not be picked, that when you active block with a shield if you have Courage stacks you will block 100% of the inc damage and spend your courage stack
You can also give the tank another passive to improve their mitigation when active blocking with melee weapons if you don't want to use a shield, but the "perfect block" should only apply to the shield
Please, don't do timed perfect blocks like Valheim not everyone has 10ms and ping will mess up this mechanic
Something every main tank seems to agree is that we need a VERY limited stamina usage when active blocking - this applies to all classes, including the Tank and including the shield
Don't to like New World when you have a very forgiving stamina bar that you can manage and just keep your shield up during most your fights - this is very boring game design
using your active block should be something you have to THINK and pick when you want to use it, you should only be able to tank a few hits with a LONG stamina recovery time and if you break your stamina bar it should go on a even longer cooldown - weapons should only be able to block maybe 3 to 4 hits before breaking
this would make the use of active blocking situational and meaningful - and would also make it viable to not use active blocking if you don't want to, since it's a high skill cap mechanic and for the tank to be better you need to spec into those passives I discussed previously
Every skill should work in PvP
Most main tanks agree on this one - Threat and Taunts need to work in PvP, it is absolutely terrible when you get useless skills that are PvE only
You can do this with debuffs, make threat and taunt apply debuffs to your player target reducing their defense for taunt and reducing their damage for threat
Grit
This is a good resource, love it - using it wisely and stacking before activating it makes this skill something that you need to know what you are doing, it requires player skill
and because of that I think you should make it better, 15% damage reduction with the plus 15% bonus doesn't seem good enough for what this is, maybe giving some CC immunity as well or a higher defense mitigation
just making it stronger because it's something that is more complex and should reward the tank accordingly
Animation and sounds:
again, as in almost every video I need to ask what are you trying to achieve with this? Is this going to be a "jap anime" type of game or more like a "wow, gw2..." type of game? You are overturning it both every time but I have no problem with it, if there will be a personal slider to knock those effects down, for me at least by half, cuz even in your preview video there are moments where the screen is completely filled with effects and it just shines - almost like flashbang in counterstrike. In more chaotic situations with more players involved, this will be unplayable.
UI:
so far I'm very happy. I love you moved to the TAB target system, this is absolutely great decision. Minimap is nailed perfectly, love the compass detail touch. Small and just informative quest tracker, there are no useless bars that just fill the space, and the non-essential stuff for gameplay is decently on the side and does not get in way of anything. Please just keep it that way, this is great work.
Since there will be no add-ons, pls make for us a personal setting where we can adjust which buffs/debuff we can see around the health bar/nameplate. For example, I'd like to have some CC stuff at some space and damage debuffs on another side etc.
tank gameplay itself:
seems good to me, I like how even tanks are forced to drink and recharge resources. This is what I was missing in wow so much, as a healer I just speed-drink midpulls, and completely lost the RPG feelings from resting. Make the game even harder so there will be strategy discussions needed, I'd love to do that during the drinking phase very much.
The Shield Assault skill is fun and adds a unique dynamic to combat. It's interesting that it requires the use of an equipped shield. This skill is more for getting close to targets rather than knocking them back or plowing through a group.
Tremoring Bellow is already a great skill and doesn't need any changes.
I think Grit is cool and I hope Courage will mitigate effects like Fear and other negative effects.
Aegis is amazing as it is now.
The first two mob fights looked good, but I'm concerned about how quickly the mobs died. While I understand that the party has an advantage with four members, I suggest giving the mobs a flat 10% buff per party member. This would make a noticeable difference when the party is not well-organized. However, if the party has too many members, the mob will become overwhelmed and useless.
It would be interesting if the minotaurs had a warhorn to summon more minotaurs. This would give the mobs better odds, making them more challenging. The Oakenbane Resonant looks great, and if it's meant to fight parties, consider giving it a little bit of CC.
The Bough Warden performed well in combat.
The Shield Rush animation and camera give a satisfying sense of weight and impact.
I suggest adding a tank taunt that lowers the threat level of the entire party and increases the tank's threat level. It should not be a "fix any situation" skill, however. If the party messes up too much, the tank should not be able to fix the situation with a click.
I noticed that the DPS members were wrecking the mobs while they stuck to the tank. I suggest having mobs like the Oakenbane Resonant knock the tank down and switch to another target to add more challenge.
Overall, the preview was great, and the tank performed well in defending the party. The fights felt natural, like playing a finished game.
I believe the Tank archetype is taking a great turn! After watching the video I love how the tank has the goal of taking aggro and then proceeding to mitigate damage and/or negate it. It's what I was looking for in my next MMO. The gameplay during the stream was super smooth so seeing the tank just go off on monsters has me very excited! The direction seems, again, to be aggro and damage mitigation based so I would say keep heading in that direction.
What are your thoughts regarding the Tank abilities shown in the January live stream?
The tank abilities shown in the live stream are very cool and I like the visuals. However, I believe the ability on hotkey 8 should be broadened. The area of that blue shielding ability covered four people fine but, in an area meant for 8 people it will not seemingly protect everyone especially if they are trying to stand behind you for support. Seeing how the abilities affected the area was also very visually pleasing and I love their animations. So for AOE effects or shielding purposes please widen the shielding effects to encompass more individuals. Unless multiple tanks are necessary for large-group protection. In which case maybe increase the size of the hotkey 8 ability by a quarter or half size. Simply put, I think it might need to be a smidge larger unless the size of it is meant for 4 - 5 people.
I would also like to see the tank's movement abilities. I understand the tank was only level 15 however, I want to see what his movement abilities are outside of (WASD). Does he have abilities to up his movement speed or abilities that you can combo to chase down a target? Of course, I want him to be an anchor. I understand tanks are not supposed to be speedsters but, I would like to see more movement in his kit outside of WASD if that makes sense. Not asking for him to be ranger agility just, to have a way to move quickly whether it be by ability combos or movement speed increase through abilities. Unless another class is intended to increase party movement speed.
What are your thoughts regarding the Warhammer & shield, and 2H sword shown in the January live stream?
The Warhammer and shield were a great combo and I loved seeing them in action it was wonderful all in all. I believe they flow and function greatly. The 2H sword should have a resting position if just exiting combat.
Is there anything, in particular, you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Tank updates?
I'm excited about the tank in general! Everything looks and seems great! The only thing I have concerns about is the size of the tank's abilities not being as visually large as I perceived. I don't need them covering half my screen it just seemed like they were not big enough to cover more than a party of four or five. If that is the intention then that means two tanks will be needed for a party of ten to mitigate damage properly. Also, the movement for tanks whether they get increased speed at higher levels or movement speed abilities as they level to aid in movement seems great. I just don't know if they are finalized. I want my tank to have the option to chase down a target or sit and anchor properly.
That being said I love you all and hope this helps! I loved it all so much great work Intrepid!
So if the tank had 20% threat on you, you'd deal 20% more damage to the tank and 20% less damage to anyone other than the tank. (Obv numbers would need tweaking / balance). So the DPS still has a choice of what to do, but they are incentivized to attack the tank and disincentivized to attack others.
Just my $0.02
The Taunt System and protection skills are obviously traditional but generic. Can we consider moving toward an alternate form of tanking with some dynamic aspects outside of tank and spank pressing skills on cooldown with no real rhythm or diligence? For example making crowd control abilities across all classes more scarce but largely impactful with longer cooldowns adds value to tanks in disrupting dangerous PvE attacks or long cast time PvP abilities/ engagements in large scale.
I propose something a kin to Vanilla archeage where certain skills apply % increase aggro generation from damage done (but few or no straight 100% taunt success skills with long uptime) as well as rewarding a Tank Class specific resource like "mettle"[/b] with benefits when spent such as: the ability to gain aggro on a single target or aoe or healing or group protection.
This would make tank gameplay infinitely more skillful with decision making in how to spend built up stacks, of this class specific resource. This would transition smoothly into PvP because a class resource is multi purpose and not just for taunting, while also having that tank and spank simplicity for newer players.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Tank updates?
Excited to see certain debuffs like snare or slow can be chained into a knockdown when using another certain skill but diversifying the debuffs and synergy options would truly wet the mouths of competitive group PvP focused player base!
The major turn off for me personally is that the current visual and audio feedback do not create combat fluidity. In a polished game one would be able to close their eyes and hear the sounds and have a decent understanding of what classes types (and how many present)/ abilities are being used.
Adjustments could prove monumental in competitive group PvP where coordination and visual/audio feedback go hand and hand and also the case when fighting very strong boss types in PvE where certain skills or opposition needs to be mitigated or reacted accordingly! Opens opportunity to add punishing mechanics so even simple questing or solo killing mobs feels more dynamic in that players need to pay attention for dangerous patterns or moves. I think every veteran mmo enjoyer could agree they dread meaningless mob farming and wouldn't mind some dynamic or unexpected play during simple encounters.
I'm but a humble MMO enjoyer and recently joined the AoC hype train. I hope some of this feedback is helpful as I do try to provide my enthusiasm for this diminishing genre with experience at hand
1. Block(ing) should be a skill which costs stamina to hold (I think you guys mentioned this in the video already though which is good).
2. It seemed hard to tell when Grit was being used, might have also been a thing because the vfx was way too chaotic.
3. I was hoping for a classic taunt/shout ability to grab aggro for a few seconds in a 10-16m range, it looked like you were losing aggro quite a few times. If you want to pull a group of small mobs or even a boss you can run in first, taunt/shout and then your team can come in after you positioned them correctly.
4. Was grapple missing a skill effect? It looked like you were a mime pulling the air. I miss some kind of hook (doesn't have to be too extreme). Also I would suggest not adding rng into skills.
5. Tank damage seemed really low, I would still like to do atleast 40-60% of the damage that other dps classes do depending on how well I play.
The effects are way too much, it was chaotic and hard to tell what was going on in a lot of different cases. As last, I don't know if iframes (invincibility frames) are something you guys are adding, but they feel really satisfying with action combat. A traditional backstep iframe would be nice to dodge hard hitting attacks.
However, what I want to bring up is that I would really love to see tanks not being restricted to the usual sword-and-board. I know that whatever weapons you want to play with is up to you but I really hope it is still viable whatever you go with. For example, I'd love to see an "avoidance" specialized tank such as the knight, using a two handed weapon and relying mainly on parrying (and dodging somewhat) for avoidance or a nightshield (tank/rogue combo) which uses dual wield and dodging mainly for avoidance. This could further elaborated to have attacks that proc after a parry/dodge, e.g. knight parry into a riposte which generates extra threat or a nightshield dodging which allows a psuedo taunt to be used (+10% extra threat gain). I think you get the picture.
Anyway, that was my two cents. Quite late after the tank showcase but I've been thinking about whether I should post this or not and finally decided to do it. Can't wait for alpha 2.
Carthago delenda est
I also will give my feedback as short as I can:
1) The VFX from melee combat (especially that orange trails) is too much for me. It's totally understandable when mages are creating that pixel extravaganza, but for me, melee fights should be something more like windy swordplay, then a colorful carnival.
2) There is a gap between the moment sword hitting a mob and end of swing animation, where it seems like the attack freezing for a micro-moment. Because of that it feels like we are experiencing some fps drops during the fight (which is not true, but it feels like that). I hope everyone understand what I am talking about. Need to mention that ranged combat does not have that issue.
Thank you Interpid for what you are doing!