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[Feedback Request] Alpha Two Mage Updates Shown in the April Livestream

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    SoggyBandaidSoggyBandaid Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    How do you feel about the Mage Archetype so far?
    I feel like the direction is good compared with alpha 1. The visual on the abilities looks great. I'd say the mage is probably the best archetype shown aesthetically.

    How do you feel about being able to move while casting spells? Do you like the agency given to you, or does it feel unnatural?
    I feel like the bigger spell slower movement trade off is a great design!

    How do you feel about the transitions between spells? Does this feel natural to you?
    The transitions between spells looked good. The visual transitions as spells ended looked a bit choppy. Shield and lighting orb just vanished out of existence.

    How do you feel about the general or rotational complexity of the Mage Archetype? Does it feel too simple, too hard, or just right?
    I felt like the complexity was probably good, but the visual feedback was lacking. Just looking at the mobs it was tough to tell when they were chilled, frozen, shocked, etc. It's not a huge deal with one mage at low level, but if groups are trying to coordinate combos at higher level with more abilities, the visual feedback can be a huge help to know if my mage landed his frost abilities.

    What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Mage Archetype?
    I really like the diversity of the Mage's kit, blink and sleep were especially fun. I think this adds an element to make the class a bit more tactical than some games I've played where you just maximize whatever element is best in the meta.

    What are your favorite Mage archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
    I like the elementalist from GW2 because each of the different elemental attunements had it's own function and aesthetic. Additionally, each element played differently depending on your weapon choice. It made the class feel very easy and fun to pick up, but very hard to master. I also like the Wizard in D&D or Pathfinder. Spells like scry, silence, and some others that go beyond just damage gave the archetype an added layer of complexity.

    Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Mage Archetype?
    I'm excited for the Mage Archetype. If I am being honest, my biggest concern is that the mage makes some of the earlier archetypes, particularly the Tank, look underwhelming by comparison. The Tank update felt a bit lackluster... it feels even less impressive seeing the Mage. However, that may be outside the scope of the question. The Mage looks very exciting all around.
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    edited April 2023
    I've mained a sorcerer/elementalist/mage in every MMO I've ever played for the past 18 years.

    Here is my review from today's showcase:
    • Overall Combat Comment: Combat feels a little bit static. Need better mobility. Not every spell needs to be static and rooted.
    • Blink: Looks great, it reminds me of Streak/Ball of Lightning in ESO. Instead of a cooldown, wish it just drained your mag instead and drained it even more for each time. Just so you can use it 2-3 times to get in and out of combat easier.
    • Shield: Wish shape was rounder vs oval/eggshape. Will this shield be worked on some more? Seems like the shield incl a few other effects just disappeared vs fading out. There's no end transition of the shield currently.
    • Ball of Lightning: Ability looks great. But people will only slot it for PvE activities like dungeons/raids. I don't see the usage of it for PvP. Could there be an alt for this with smaller orbs shooting out? Like a dot? I feel that would be more useful for PvP.
    • Blizzard: Nailed this one. I appreciate the hovering/flying moment. I hope meteor shower has similar effect. But i do have one comment that is applied to below.
    • Cone of Cold: I like this, but I feel we are missing more effects to the area. Can the ground get slightly frosted for this and for Blizzard? Right now there's just ice spikes shooting up. Also think the colorscheme can get more frost white vs icy blue.
    • All lightning abilities: I feel a lot of these spells can easily be interrupted. Would like for combat to feel a little bit faster. Cast time can be cut in half.
    • Arcane Abilities: Love!
    • Sleep Spell This was great, I wonder if this can be ranged as well for players using staff?
    • Weapon: Happy we saw a mage wielding both a wand a sword. But wish we got to see a mage with a Staff. Will the range be increased when wielding a staff?
    • Remaining abilities: I assume this was just a taste of what's to come and the team didn't want to show off all abilities?
    • Gliding mounts: Stoked about this. But will these be more common than flying mounts?
    • Environment: That opening shot in the cave with the light coming through. That was beautiful.

    Hope above is constructive feedback. But overall, I'm super excited for Alpha 2.
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    George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    Bladedance wrote: »
    The Mage class shown, severely lacks mobility. The abilities are fine but if a dodge or additional meaningful mobility was added in then the mage would be epic. As the current iteration sits, it is lack luster at best, for action combat. Even just adding directional moves on top combat spells that would allow the caster to move in at a "meaningful speed" would be good. This would help for damage avoidance in PVE as well as PVP. There's nothing worse than doing your favorite cool looking spell while someone is slicing and dicing you while you're waiting for the animation to finish.

    Also, if you keep long animations the damage done should be chunkier this keeps the risk vs reward aspect in place.

    there is a gap closer and a damage shield. Dont expect to win one against many. This is a group focused game. Your solo as a mage isn't to be right in the face of the enemy. The tank does that. Your tank needs to protect you and your group. If you dont have a group, how to you expect to win against others who have a tank to protect, a healer to heal and dps roles to deal dmg?

    Not every class should be able to do everything. Save your gap opener if you find yourself in a tight spot. Better yet, learn to play with your group effectively. Both in Pve and PvP. This isn't a solo game.
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    TalentsTalents Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited May 2023
    By far the best archetype showcase so far, not just because we saw a good number of abilities shown, but also because the VFX looked clean, the animations looked fluid, and the abilities actually had combo effects that were noticeable and shown clearly on stream.

    Mages should 100% be able to move while casting a lot of their spells, but it shouldn't be full mobility. I play Mages in most MMOs, and it always feels bad when you're forced to stand entirely still while casting, but I also understand it would be incredibly unfair to be able to move at full speed. I like that a few of the spells seemingly allow you to move while casting, but at reduced speed.

    I would also like to see some more proper action spells, not aoe, but single target action spells (like it'd have been cool if Frostbolt or Magic Missiles was an action spell instead of tab). Right now it feels like Melee archetypes are more action-heavy while Ranged archetypes are predominantly tab.

    I'm terrible at giving feedback when only watching footage, so I'll have to wait till I get to try it in-game. But so far it looks like a great start to the Mage. 9/10 showcase.
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    OrbificatorOrbificator Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited April 2023
    How do you feel about the Mage Archetype so far?
    • Mechanic-wise, looking good.
    • Visual-wise, FX was tuned down too much and soundfx could be better.

    How do you feel about being able to move while casting spells? Do you like the agency given to you, or does it feel unnatural?
    • Not sure how it feels, have to play, but I'm sure it will be great.

    How do you feel about the transitions between spells? Does this feel natural to you?
    • Looked fine to me. The fact that it didn't stand out to me at all as an issue probably means its good.

    How do you feel about the general or rotational complexity of the Mage Archetype? Does it feel too simple, too hard, or just right?
    • Again, cant really say how it feels. Will have to play it to give that feedback. It looks like it would be good, just right.
    What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Mage Archetype?
    • Playing as: Being able to set up combos that proc for high damage. Having eye-catching abilities showcase power.
    • Playing with: Being able to synergize, for one, but also the visual spectacle they bring to the battlefield.
    • Playing against: Knowing that if I can just grab them and sit them down, I can whale on them.

    What are your favorite Mage archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
    • First and foremost, I think of mages as The Class of Spectacle.
    • For favorite archetypes:
    • Your standard ranged Glass Cannon, of course.
    • Close Quarters Battlemages.
    • The rare Damage Mitigation (Tank) Mage.

    Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Mage Archetype?
    • Pure mechanic-wise, It looks pretty exciting. I cant wait to test it out. Nothing stood out to me as a problem. At first, i though damage was low but im used to playing "Single Player" MMO's. Built around groups, the damage seemed fine.
    • My major gripe is purely visuals, so nothing urgent.
      The FX and Soundfx of some the abilities seemed lackluster. They generally had a solid foundation but lacked the "Spark" that really would make them compelling. Like the chain-lightning and frost cone. Especially the lightning strike.

    Alpha 1 may have been overtuned, but I feel this was too wimpy. A mage's power should be displayed in the fx and soundfx. If the fx is able to be adjusted, whats the problem with giving us the ability to even turn them up a bit?

    I heard Steven say this is meant to be a "Top-Tier" MMO, but these effects dont look "Top-Tier" in my opinion as a random dude.

    When I look around, it seems most people are satisfied with what's there, fx-wise. I suppose if the game launched looking like this I'd be okay with it. I guess I just prefer a bit more "flash" in the fx and more bass-y "punch" in the soundfx then the average bear.

    I realize this is alpha.
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    DaevokDaevok Member
    edited April 2023
    How do you feel about the Mage Archetype so far?
    Looks decent so far
    How do you feel about being able to move while casting spells? Do you like the agency given to you, or does it feel unnatural?
    I didnt see you guys moving too much, but the movement felt a little bit slow - so did the overall casting -speed it all up a bit!
    How do you feel about the transitions between spells? Does this feel natural to you?
    Looked good from what i could see
    How do you feel about the general or rotational complexity of the Mage Archetype? Does it feel too simple, too hard, or just right?
    seemed a bit muddled, didn't really see a rotation aside from casting different spells in no consequential order - possibly simplistic - more complexity so we really have to focus while in combat that enables large skill gap potential. Base rotation should be simple but there should be lots of room for reactive additions and decision making mid rotation. Wow (as a reference) has Plenty of classes that have great rotations with skill gap potential.
    What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Mage Archetype?
    I plan on Maining Mage and what excites me is fast/devastating/unforgiving gameplay (glass cannon).
    What are your favorite Mage archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
    I really enjoyed Arcane mage in World of Warcraft. Mobile high skill gap rotation. Very smooth /reactive gameplay.
    Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Mage Archetype?
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    I like what I've seen.

    Movement while casting was good, not fast, yet enough to manoeuvre about and it brought an air of showmanship quite fitting for an arcane caster.

    Really impressed with spell effects overall, especially when they go around a terrain obstacle, I didn't expect that.

    Mages seem like they will be tricky to fight against in PvP. AoE, CC, Blink, Sleep... Lots of tricks to pull out of their fabulous hats.


    On a non mage related topic. I quite liked the mini-map's graphic/texture/mappy-drawn-look. Not sure about the borders, they were... ok. But the top with the region name, compass, etc, was looking sweet.
    Be bold. Be brave. Roll a Tulnar !
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    keyframekeyframe Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    Oh boy, do I have a lot of thoughts on the mage preview we saw. I am a mage or some kind of magic user in like 90% of mmo's and not going to lie I'm pretty sad about what we saw. I think this is the first time where I've been disappointed on what has been shown. So far the mage seems super generic in terms of theming and honestly appears to have the same old spells that every single game with a mage has. Sleep might be the only spell that was somewhat unique to the Ashes mage and even then it's a fairly typical spell. Even a lot of the animations felt super generic (I'll dive more into animations and spell effects below). I was honestly hoping for so much more than what was shown off today. I've been a bit tired of mage classes going with elements, though with the other classes being fairly fresh, I figured at least we'd see Ashes doing something a lot more unique and creative for mage spells. So again, seeing the cookie cutter mage today was pretty disappointing, in terms how the mage looks and feels in general. I'd love to see a lot of these spells reworked honestly. If I had to pick spells to keep, I enjoyed the look / feel of the the blink, arc/chain lightning, sleep, and ball lighting. (Though again more on look down below)

    The mechanics for working with the different elements, as far as I understand the different interactions, seem interesting. I don't know how I feel about it honestly, on the one hand the various and progressive debuff(s) sound neat but I worry that having debuff(s) where the stack count matters is going to be a bit hard to read, especially in groups. Though I'm going to need to see how it plays with the full kit before I can finalize my thoughts on this. Though I think I'd like to see more of interactions between the elements. Like maybe some of the lightning spells create a debuff that changes depending on what element uses that debuff. So if you picked a specific earth / metal spell the target would be magnetized and gently pulled towards your earth spell, or flung there if using it at a higher stack of the lightning debuff (assuming stacking stays). The only real question I have is how does these debuffs work with other mages when attacking the same target?

    The movement and flow of the abilities looked good. I think this is the one area that was really well done all around. The slight movement on the blizzard ability was very nice, and the rotation that was shown looked every smooth for where the game is at in development.

    As for animations and spell effects, they were a bit of a mixed bag. Starting with the good, the effects look like they belong inside the world a lot more then previous effects we've seen. The arching lightning based off terrain was great, and the ball lightning looked pretty good too. Oh and I really liked the arch/chain lightning character animation. The above definitely needs a bit of polish but for where the game is at in development the stuff mentioned is looking great.

    As for the rest, I won't say bad, as most of it wasn't bad just something I don't think fit very well:
    • Overall I think the spell effects being toned down was good but I think it went just a bit too far in the other direction and would like to see a slight move back in the other direction. I'd rather turn down the spell effects then have them be too little.
    • The blink and sleep spells purple/black fog looks more like shadow magic then arcane.
    • The first half of the motion the character makes when casting lighting strike wasn't great. I'd like to see this reworked a bit. Same with the particle effect of the first half. The strike onto the enemy itself was solid.
    • The cast animations for the frostbolt and other spells where you pull back both your hands and form the spell between them has been done to death. This goes back to the spell being a bit generic but I'd like to see the animation reworked or improved on a bit. Maybe have the character spread out their arms and slowly pull them closer, and show them condensing the water into the frostbolt, or something similar for other affects.
    • The shell effect looked really great, but for closer cameras it's going to take up a decent portion of the screen. Maybe reduce how far it goes out from the player, or have the same effect but change it kinda hug the silhouette of the player.
    • I like the ice spells fog portion when it's present but the ice itself needs a bit of work, especially the ground effect / clusters and the size of the frostbolts (too small, maybe should trail the fog from cone of cold). The clusters in particular seem off. I don't know if it's cause they look like they come out of nowhere, due to the ice clusters not having snow/frost connecting them, or the fog not continuing to billow out while the animation plays out, or both.

    Anyway, that's the majority of my thoughts on the mage preview we saw. Nothing was bad per say, but I was left feeling disappointed about the direction of the class.
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    DralayDralay Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited April 2023
    • Overall it looked like an improvement from previous versions of the mage
    • The ability to move while casting is a must without that I believe the class would look and feel much worse I think the movement speed while casting needs to actually be increased.
    • In general it felt like the cast times for nearly every ability was too long, I understand a really high damage ability taking a long time to cast however most of these abilities seemed like relatively basic abilities yet they still had 2 or 3-second + cast timers. In order to have faster-paced combat I think all classes should have relatively low cast timers or else it feels like your perma rooted.
    • It felt like overall the transition between spells was slow not the animations them selfs but just long cast timers that seemed to be the main issue here.

      Overall it looked solid I know there will be augments and changes but I personally would like to see faster-paced abilities with lower cooldowns. I am ok with sacrificing damage to have faster-paced gameplay. It looked like 3/4 of the abilities we saw were cast timer slowed. I think the class needs more mobility built into abilities. For example, maybe you cast an ice wind that blows you backwards from the direction of the cast while damaging in a cone.

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    AlusiAlusi Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited April 2023
    Agree with many of the other posters this is the most progress I have seen for some time for a class and demonstrating their kit and abilities.
    I really like the idea of building in options to chain together different types of abilities to increase damage or create other synergistic effects. This will make gameplay much more interesting than just a basic set rotation of skills. I really hope this is the plan moving fwd for all classes?
    I also agree that sometime the mage did look slow with its movement on some abilities. However if the mage can move fast on all spells while casting this will present balance problems in PvP if melee classes have no way to close the gap to do damage.
    If all classes have faster movement speed options then I guess the balance could be more for faster higher movement gameplay in general on all classes?4
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    SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    It looks nice,

    I have concerns we're not going to get good combat over all, rather Intrepid is going to leave the game to zerglords and anyone who had hoped for high tier combat play is going to be left looking elsewhere.

    But anyone with a critical eye is looking at this and going, "why?".

    Anyone who came to Ashes in hopes of good combat and not more ball zergs and the lowest common denominator types of PvP, we may have to join the high tier raiders into looking elsewhere. Which is a damn shame because the team shows all the promise of making the best combat in the market.

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    akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Wonder how mage casting out of line of site will work if mobs require line of site in pve.. especially raids

    And also wonder how casting out of line of site will work in pvp. I would imagine, casting out of line of site capability will put mages as high priority targets in quick skirmishes if there is cover nearby (if they hit hard too)!

    Will other classes also have some degree of out of line of site hit and/or heal capability?



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    DizzDizz Member
    edited April 2023
    -How do you feel about the Mage Archetype so far?

    Great.

    -How do you feel about being able to move while casting spells? Do you like the agency given to you, or does it feel unnatural?

    Great. I hope that if player invest deep enough in one spell for example maxed out spell Blizzard will able to gain more mobility to feel more comfortable while using the Blizzard.

    -How do you feel about the transitions between spells? Does this feel natural to you?

    Great. Looks fun.

    -How do you feel about the general or rotational complexity of the Mage Archetype? Does it feel too simple, too hard, or just right?

    I like it, but the number showed on debuff icon is not very easy to read how many stacks it is. I think overall it’s quite easy to understand how mage works as just mage archetype. If the damage and/or the mobility while casting scales good, I feel mage archetype is pretty good.

    -What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Mage Archetype?

    As I answered if the damage and/or the mobility while casting scales good, I feel mage archetype is pretty good.

    -What are your favorite Mage archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.

    Elementalist(Tempest/Weaver/Catalyst) in GW2.

    -Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Mage Archetype?

    I’d like to see Elemental Empowerment gives wand basic attack more differenet twist, like after cast lightning or frost spells wand basic attack become lesser chain lightning that do AOE damage or ice lance that shot faster that normal wand basic attack.

    Frost spells are a little bit more like snow than ice to me , maybe it’s because the color.

    When spells hit monster the chilled effect and electrified effect on monster are not obvious enough(at least to me) and monster doesn’t give enough feedback on animation such as a twitch to let player feel that spell hits the monster.

    And I hope you can do this(https://youtu.be/8pes3BHQsrU) to objects like trees or eaves etc that might block the line of sight.
    A casual follower from TW.
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    SolnirSolnir Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited April 2023
    I think the direction of where the Mage is going is looking good. However, something that I always notice in games is the sound design, and of course this is keeping in mind how early in development we still are. At any point before sound, it is way more important to focus on the functionality of any given ability. As it stands, I wasn't too jazzed about the VFX of certain abilities, and paired with the sound, it felt very underwhelming to watch. One of the devs actually commented on this and said they know it looks a little off, so that reassured me that we're seeing the same thing and it will be an improvement later. This isn't to suggest things aren't being looked at if it wasn't mentioned during the livestream, but I want to be part of the crowd that backs up a solid foundation for amazing sound design.
    Sound Design Feedback

    For example, during the melee portion of the showcase, the strange metal clanging that occurs on specific targets like the plant enemies we saw earlier just felt straight up weird. I feel like that would be a great sound against armored targets, but if I'm fighting a plant, I'd expect a softer, maybe more muted slice and dicing. Less obvious and maybe more of a preference thing is how the sound of Blizzard was a bit too whispy and flat. I'm sure the stream/video didn't lend the sound any favors, so I'm not about to jump on that too hard, but it would be nice if we could hear things like the ice shards falling on impact, coupled with the whisp of harsh winds as you'd expect to hear from a blizzard.

    Mage Feedback


    First off, I just have to say I'm LOVING the idea of a battle-mage in this world. It was funny to see a little cloth-bearing magic user wield a massive two-handed sword, but I think the application of this is too good to pass up. Criticism of sound aside, I think the abilities were good. Slowly moving with the Blizzard around you is a great take on the typical AOE we're used to seeing with casters. When seeing these different elements come into play, I thought how cool it would be to master a specific set of elemental abilities, and Steven does mention this, which I am so happy about. If I ever played Mage, I'd want to spec far into Fire and see how that turns out. BTW, kudos to the dev who pulled off the move against the Rock Elemental where he casted the Lightening Ball and immediately used Blink through the elemental into a Cone of Cold to leash it back into the damage of the lightening and Cone of Cold. That was badass, but it also really showcased how an effective Mage can create their own damage patterns with each element.

    Final Thoughts


    Overall, this was a good showcase to watch, and I have to agree with others saying that this archetype has come such a long way since Alpha One. You guys are killing it with the amount of progress you're making. I hope my soapbox on Sound Design made sense, but I know we have plenty of time to get there, and I'm enjoying the development journey so far.
    Hvernig grísurnar myndu grunna ef þær vissu hvernig gamli galturinn þjáðist.
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    OrkoOrko Member
    1) I love the minor movement while casting, I mean you are a mage you need to focus to cast a spell
    2) One thing I hate is when you are casting and u can do cancellation of action.. like you started to cast, you need to finish it kinda thing. I consider this tactical error,... like u are low hp but you chose spell thats aoe casting and minor movement.. u put your hp on the line hoping you kill the enemy before it comes to you
    3) Loved all the spell, I think maybe the electrical ball could move a bit slower.. maybe less damage but slower. I am guessing now is faster but more damage since the ball will pass through quicker
    4) please do the rest of the class showcase like this.. much better..
    5) I love ice magic, maybe the spikes could be a bit smaller, blizzard is cool. overall love the showcase.. so far the best mage type mmorpg I seen in a long time



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    Mages look quit good with the limited mobility they seem to play a more strategic role in manipulating the field via zoning with cone of cold and ball of lightning more strategic game play instead of zoomies.

    I would like to see 2 stat options though available
    Spell hast aka faster cast speed
    and concentration i guess increased movespeed while casting

    these stat options on armor/talents/archetype upgrades and thing i think would go a long way to bring the mage together (might already be the case) but figured i would mention it
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    Ban_Ban_ Member
    Pray, wherefore must it needs be a focus on Tab Target? The sight of the mouse and the requirement to click upon a creature appears archaic. Should I desire to engage in such interactions, I would be inclined to play Runescape. Alas, the absence of invulnerability frames and the spectacle of a melee-oriented creature striking from a considerable distance with naught but a punch is truly distressing.

    How dost thou plan to balance the realm of Player versus Player combat between melee and those possessing tab target ranged abilities? Behold the scene at the twentieth minute and the fiftieth second in the video; it is evident that skill becomes superfluous when one may simply circumvent obstacles while their abilities effortlessly seek their target without the need for prowess.

    Might there exist a conceivable notion of segregating the servers, thereby allowing for an action-oriented combat realm and a tab target realm? Such a stratagem could serve as a fine means to discern the prevailing preference among the populace, for I find it difficult to fathom that the younger generation, constituting the majority and ever burgeoning in numbers, would incline toward this antiquated style of combat. The game presents a splendid visage, and the amalgamation of elemental abilities wrought by your team is undeniably remarkable; however, the combat itself is a cause for concern. Let us be frank, this game is unlikely to be released ere 2025 or thereafter, and we are then expected to engage in combat reminiscent of MMOs from the year 2005 as we venture into the 2030s?

    The game remains in its nascent stages, and I beseech thee to diligently consider devising a more fitting system than alternating between tab target and whichever variant of "Action Combat" thou art compelled to toggle between. Truthfully, I would care not even if it were a balanced fusion of the two, for that tab targeting and the dearth of invulnerability frames are truly perplexing phenomena.

    If thou hast endured my diatribe thus far, I extend my gratitude, and I eagerly anticipate thy opinion on the matter!
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    The Mage Archetype looks amazing.

    I love that you can move while casting spells. It makes perfect sense that you just move a bit slower. From a combat perspective I would say if you can't move your a sitting duck. I think that if you become stuck in place for a full cast, that should be a pretty powerful spell to make up for that vulnerability.

    The combos on the stream looked promising. In fact it looked pretty fun setting them up. I am excited to see how they interactive with others classes abilities. The complexity of the rotation looks good, it looked diverse and yet not too complicated. If too many spells exist, most will go unused for the average player.

    I am excited to see how the Mage Archetype controls the battle. Mages can win or lose a fight, depending on the utility they provide.

    I really think that it is cool that the Mage Archetype can use weapons, beyond staffs, wands, etc. With an elemental nature to them. Looks really fun.

    I liked the targeting of the spells a lot. I like that you can tab target, and yet still have some spells that need to be aimed and positioned. I have always found aiming every spell and attack is exhausting, and in a large fight it can be quite difficult to see the target, much less hit it. I think you all have a good targeting system.
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    StevenSharifStevenSharif Moderator, Member, Staff, Avatar of the Phoenix, Kickstarter
    💪💪💪

    Strong feedback frands ❤️🙏
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    prymortalprymortal Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited April 2023
    How do you feel about the Mage Archetype so far?
    My only issue is it using Melee Weapons, that said we have not tested it.
    How do you feel about being able to move while casting spells? Do you like the agency given to you, or does it feel unnatural?
    Looks right for PVP, Bit slow for PVE. But once again we have not tested it.
    How do you feel about the transitions between spells? Does this feel natural to you?
    Overall I'd say its fine, bit slow, then bit fast, Bit to combo focused, there was a pause in the demo at some points between the same skills - As I'm not playing mage I didn't deep dive into which skills. It could be due to the guy playing just delaying the input so the debuff is confirmed to do the combo action? To hard to say for sure without know more & not having tested it
    How do you feel about the general or rotational complexity of the Mage Archetype? Does it feel too simple, too hard, or just right?
    Looks right, but once again we have not tested it.
    What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Mage Archetype?
    Mages are OP cancer in all games, So nothing. I especially do Not look forward to 30second sleeps.
    What are your favorite Mage archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
    Necromancer gw2 & Final Fantasy Type-0 Ace who uses cards to attack (mixed melee, ranged, mage)
    Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Mage Archetype?
    Very concerned at player feedback, Very concerned you will speed it up when it has blink, Very concerned you will speed it up when it has shield, Very concerned you will speed it up when casting AOE's so in PVP players cant approach the class in combat, VERY CONCERNED you will not have high recast on CC's (for all classes in PVP).
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    PipomamPipomam Member
    edited April 2023
    Great improvement on the Mage, it looks really fun, being in my opinion one of the best showcases yet.
    Here is my humble feedback:

    I felt like some of the spell's casting speeds were too slow (f.e. Chain lightning, Lightning strike and Frostbolt), losing a lot of fluidity in combat. Maybe because the character is still low level? Either way this has a simple solution, just need to find the balance in dps between casting speed and damage output.
    I like Diablo 2's Sorceress combat, it feels quick, fluid and impactful, despite being a hack & slash there is a lot of good things there that could be translated into AoC.

    I would like to see the blizzard as a template placed AoE.

    The lightning spells SFX sounded more like an electrical discharge when a thunder noise would feel more powerful and impactful, specially for Lightning Strike (or maybe save that sound for a critical hit), making the spell feel more *CLICK* Nice!
    Also the blizzard SFX didn't sound like Ice.

    Overall it looked really good, the combo system seems good as well as the mage's mechanics. It's only details that need refining IMO.

    That being said, my congratulations on the great job that the team is doing, keep it up!
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    I get overwhelmed easily by complex combos and buff stacking so i was curious, would i be able to be a pure arcane mage and still complete end game raids, or will elemental combinations far outshine arcane builds in end game content DPS?
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    peksipeksi Member
    I liked what I see. Combining different spells to create synergistic effects is definately the way.

    Big request: please have spells not limited to certain predefined sets. Define their properties from archtype, subtype, gear, attributes, buffs etc. Under the hood make them consist of technical building blocks, to enable a large number of combinations.

    For example chain lightning splits into multiple branches when character subtype has certain properties. Of mage would fly higher on casting when less tanky. Or lightning would produce a storm with some elemental focused mage.
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    How do you feel about the Mage Archetype so far?

    Best Archetype reveal so far. Heading towards right direction.

    How do you feel about being able to move while casting spells? Do you like the agency given to you, or does it feel unnatural?

    The idea of slower movement while casting is good. However I think it was a bit to slow. Moving while casting needs to still feel useful and benefitial compared to being rooted. Maybe walking speed while casting?

    How do you feel about the transitions between spells? Does this feel natural to you?

    Generally this felt good. Using the wand to stack a debuff was nice. Not sure how this would feel though with slower weapons.


    How do you feel about the general or rotational complexity of the Mage Archetype? Does it feel too simple, too hard, or just right?


    This I felt is just right. Complexity is good.

    Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Mage Archetype?

    Excited about the complexity and huge potential of different playstyles / customization for the Archetype.

    I have a bit mixed feelings about the curved lightning. The idea is cool, but line of sight should apply to atleast 90% of spells. Curving the attack should be a rare exception. Magical bolts, missiles etc should not be curvable.

    The wizard hat Icon shown in the UI showcase is a better fit for the mage than the current book + symbol applied. I feel like the book and flame could just as easily apply to the cleric or the summoner, where as with the wizard hat it is clear that this is a mage.

    General feedback on the stream & Archetype preview

    Definitely a good call to show the mage solo this time. Seeing a healthy number of abilities and them demonstrated clearly was good.

    I would have liked to see the player model though from different angles. Race is a huge component in class fantasy. Some combinations of races + archetypes just feel better than others. Showing the model in more detail would only take a minute and allow us to give feedback to you on it. Maybe for the cyclops stream we could take a quick look in more detail of the player models? I would also hope that when the charactor creator now receives its update on other races this milestone (according to the Q&A), that eventually when ready the current player models for the fighter, ranger, cleric, tank and now mage would be replaced with other models representing different races and genders.

    For the remaining Archetype reveals I hope that you continue to reveal them in different settings. For example it makes sense to show the bard in raid or group level play, but for the rogue a solo adventuring showcase could be sensible. For the summoner it would be nice to see how a dps / healer / tank orientated summoner fills a gap in a group that does not already have an archetype for that in it. Variety is good.

    Overall good work!




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    How do you feel about the transitions between spells? Does this feel natural to you?

    I find it a bit awkward to have weapons disappear during spell animations, particularly while wielding the large 2-hander shown on stream. I think it would be really cool to work weapons into the animations instead. For example, the start of the ball lightning animation spell could involve driving the player's weapon into the ground to free both of their hands. Then, once the spell completes, a telekinetic pull could bring the weapon back into the player's hand(s).

    I also feel that the way the character holds their weapon during the blizzard animation is somewhat unnatural while wielding a 2-hander. The weapon sways around quite a bit, and I would definitely be worried about cutting myself if I was holding such a heavy weapon up in the air with only one hand. Instead, I think I would either want to hold the weapon in a reverse grip, pointing it downwards, or hold it close with the flat of the blade against my back to minimize torque and reduce weapon sway.

    Because the ball lightning spell really reminds me of a plasma orb, I would like to see the lightning arcs interact with the bubble, creating little shockwaves when they touch.

    Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Mage Archetype?

    I'm really excited to play a melee focused mage! One concern that I have with the battlemage playstyle is that I usually can't have my cake and eat it too. With other games, I'm either squishy and have to spend too much time healing between each pull, or I hit like a limp noodle because I've sacrificed a ton of damage in order to increase my survivability. I will be very interested to see if you can make this playstyle competitive.
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    Chaos_LegionChaos_Legion Member
    edited April 2023
    "The lightning ball" sphere looks weird to me. Imo would be better without one and it visually resembles "the shell" ability. Also when you said it interacts with the environment I was expecting its path to curve slightly towards enemies that are close enough. Was disappointed to see lightning ball just going down the stairs even though it is way better then what we have seen before. It feels that all electric stuff should have that homing feature in its core.

    "The blizard" spell feels weightless and unimpactful.

    Also decals from spells could linger a bit longer. To get that feeling of scarred battlefield through the fight.
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    I understand that this is "work in pr" , but I want to mention something...

    Why ....just why u cant do something mysterious or scary ? big job was done , and I can see it ....but not in that direction what people expect (i read comments, not all but many)
    big dissapointed about sounds !! very very big no ... (i think you actually dont work on that part or u will be , i dont know)
    what I saw looked like blasters from star wars , or from cartoon for kids ...come on guys! do some bass , make some thunder etc. do some adult stuff) colors ....come on! ice with more spikes ( i saw links on youtube with game from 2012 Dragons dogma , look at that beauty ! that is so .... ooohh! this is what i expect , but optimised for online mmorpg )... i can explain with one sound of my expectations - in game called Apex , there is character Revenant , just try his tactical skill "Silence" - and thats it!
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    I saw something yesterday on stream that got me off but I don't know why.
    He launched lightning ball and it went down the steps instead of going in straight line above them.
    Then he blink up stairs and it got him at the top of them as the spell was also following invisible path instead of getting stuck at the bottom of those stairs.
    Then he blinked from one cliff to another in straight line.
    So the question is why blink which was clearly following available ground path didn't stopped in the air between cliffs or below on the ground? If this follows ground paths like all the spells, the jump between cliffs increased the range of the spell which is inconsistent for me. I'm bamboozled about this so can someone explain?
    If the mage jump off the cliff and ise blink he will land on the ground without damage or he will move in straight line in the air and continue to fall?
    What is the trajectory of the spells based on?
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