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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
Here is my review from today's showcase:
Hope above is constructive feedback. But overall, I'm super excited for Alpha 2.
there is a gap closer and a damage shield. Dont expect to win one against many. This is a group focused game. Your solo as a mage isn't to be right in the face of the enemy. The tank does that. Your tank needs to protect you and your group. If you dont have a group, how to you expect to win against others who have a tank to protect, a healer to heal and dps roles to deal dmg?
Not every class should be able to do everything. Save your gap opener if you find yourself in a tight spot. Better yet, learn to play with your group effectively. Both in Pve and PvP. This isn't a solo game.
Mages should 100% be able to move while casting a lot of their spells, but it shouldn't be full mobility. I play Mages in most MMOs, and it always feels bad when you're forced to stand entirely still while casting, but I also understand it would be incredibly unfair to be able to move at full speed. I like that a few of the spells seemingly allow you to move while casting, but at reduced speed.
I would also like to see some more proper action spells, not aoe, but single target action spells (like it'd have been cool if Frostbolt or Magic Missiles was an action spell instead of tab). Right now it feels like Melee archetypes are more action-heavy while Ranged archetypes are predominantly tab.
I'm terrible at giving feedback when only watching footage, so I'll have to wait till I get to try it in-game. But so far it looks like a great start to the Mage. 9/10 showcase.
How do you feel about being able to move while casting spells? Do you like the agency given to you, or does it feel unnatural?
How do you feel about the transitions between spells? Does this feel natural to you?
How do you feel about the general or rotational complexity of the Mage Archetype? Does it feel too simple, too hard, or just right?
- Again, cant really say how it feels. Will have to play it to give that feedback. It looks like it would be good, just right.
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Mage Archetype?What are your favorite Mage archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Mage Archetype?
The FX and Soundfx of some the abilities seemed lackluster. They generally had a solid foundation but lacked the "Spark" that really would make them compelling. Like the chain-lightning and frost cone. Especially the lightning strike.
Alpha 1 may have been overtuned, but I feel this was too wimpy. A mage's power should be displayed in the fx and soundfx. If the fx is able to be adjusted, whats the problem with giving us the ability to even turn them up a bit?
I heard Steven say this is meant to be a "Top-Tier" MMO, but these effects dont look "Top-Tier" in my opinion as a random dude.
When I look around, it seems most people are satisfied with what's there, fx-wise. I suppose if the game launched looking like this I'd be okay with it. I guess I just prefer a bit more "flash" in the fx and more bass-y "punch" in the soundfx then the average bear.
I realize this is alpha.
Looks decent so far
How do you feel about being able to move while casting spells? Do you like the agency given to you, or does it feel unnatural?
I didnt see you guys moving too much, but the movement felt a little bit slow - so did the overall casting -speed it all up a bit!
How do you feel about the transitions between spells? Does this feel natural to you?
Looked good from what i could see
How do you feel about the general or rotational complexity of the Mage Archetype? Does it feel too simple, too hard, or just right?
seemed a bit muddled, didn't really see a rotation aside from casting different spells in no consequential order - possibly simplistic - more complexity so we really have to focus while in combat that enables large skill gap potential. Base rotation should be simple but there should be lots of room for reactive additions and decision making mid rotation. Wow (as a reference) has Plenty of classes that have great rotations with skill gap potential.
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Mage Archetype?
I plan on Maining Mage and what excites me is fast/devastating/unforgiving gameplay (glass cannon).
What are your favorite Mage archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
I really enjoyed Arcane mage in World of Warcraft. Mobile high skill gap rotation. Very smooth /reactive gameplay.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Mage Archetype?
Movement while casting was good, not fast, yet enough to manoeuvre about and it brought an air of showmanship quite fitting for an arcane caster.
Really impressed with spell effects overall, especially when they go around a terrain obstacle, I didn't expect that.
Mages seem like they will be tricky to fight against in PvP. AoE, CC, Blink, Sleep... Lots of tricks to pull out of their fabulous hats.
On a non mage related topic. I quite liked the mini-map's graphic/texture/mappy-drawn-look. Not sure about the borders, they were... ok. But the top with the region name, compass, etc, was looking sweet.
The mechanics for working with the different elements, as far as I understand the different interactions, seem interesting. I don't know how I feel about it honestly, on the one hand the various and progressive debuff(s) sound neat but I worry that having debuff(s) where the stack count matters is going to be a bit hard to read, especially in groups. Though I'm going to need to see how it plays with the full kit before I can finalize my thoughts on this. Though I think I'd like to see more of interactions between the elements. Like maybe some of the lightning spells create a debuff that changes depending on what element uses that debuff. So if you picked a specific earth / metal spell the target would be magnetized and gently pulled towards your earth spell, or flung there if using it at a higher stack of the lightning debuff (assuming stacking stays). The only real question I have is how does these debuffs work with other mages when attacking the same target?
The movement and flow of the abilities looked good. I think this is the one area that was really well done all around. The slight movement on the blizzard ability was very nice, and the rotation that was shown looked every smooth for where the game is at in development.
As for animations and spell effects, they were a bit of a mixed bag. Starting with the good, the effects look like they belong inside the world a lot more then previous effects we've seen. The arching lightning based off terrain was great, and the ball lightning looked pretty good too. Oh and I really liked the arch/chain lightning character animation. The above definitely needs a bit of polish but for where the game is at in development the stuff mentioned is looking great.
As for the rest, I won't say bad, as most of it wasn't bad just something I don't think fit very well:
Anyway, that's the majority of my thoughts on the mage preview we saw. Nothing was bad per say, but I was left feeling disappointed about the direction of the class.
Overall it looked solid I know there will be augments and changes but I personally would like to see faster-paced abilities with lower cooldowns. I am ok with sacrificing damage to have faster-paced gameplay. It looked like 3/4 of the abilities we saw were cast timer slowed. I think the class needs more mobility built into abilities. For example, maybe you cast an ice wind that blows you backwards from the direction of the cast while damaging in a cone.
I really like the idea of building in options to chain together different types of abilities to increase damage or create other synergistic effects. This will make gameplay much more interesting than just a basic set rotation of skills. I really hope this is the plan moving fwd for all classes?
I also agree that sometime the mage did look slow with its movement on some abilities. However if the mage can move fast on all spells while casting this will present balance problems in PvP if melee classes have no way to close the gap to do damage.
If all classes have faster movement speed options then I guess the balance could be more for faster higher movement gameplay in general on all classes?4
I have concerns we're not going to get good combat over all, rather Intrepid is going to leave the game to zerglords and anyone who had hoped for high tier combat play is going to be left looking elsewhere.
But anyone with a critical eye is looking at this and going, "why?".
Anyone who came to Ashes in hopes of good combat and not more ball zergs and the lowest common denominator types of PvP, we may have to join the high tier raiders into looking elsewhere. Which is a damn shame because the team shows all the promise of making the best combat in the market.
And also wonder how casting out of line of site will work in pvp. I would imagine, casting out of line of site capability will put mages as high priority targets in quick skirmishes if there is cover nearby (if they hit hard too)!
Will other classes also have some degree of out of line of site hit and/or heal capability?
Great.
-How do you feel about being able to move while casting spells? Do you like the agency given to you, or does it feel unnatural?
Great. I hope that if player invest deep enough in one spell for example maxed out spell Blizzard will able to gain more mobility to feel more comfortable while using the Blizzard.
-How do you feel about the transitions between spells? Does this feel natural to you?
Great. Looks fun.
-How do you feel about the general or rotational complexity of the Mage Archetype? Does it feel too simple, too hard, or just right?
I like it, but the number showed on debuff icon is not very easy to read how many stacks it is. I think overall it’s quite easy to understand how mage works as just mage archetype. If the damage and/or the mobility while casting scales good, I feel mage archetype is pretty good.
-What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Mage Archetype?
As I answered if the damage and/or the mobility while casting scales good, I feel mage archetype is pretty good.
-What are your favorite Mage archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
Elementalist(Tempest/Weaver/Catalyst) in GW2.
-Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Mage Archetype?
I’d like to see Elemental Empowerment gives wand basic attack more differenet twist, like after cast lightning or frost spells wand basic attack become lesser chain lightning that do AOE damage or ice lance that shot faster that normal wand basic attack.
Frost spells are a little bit more like snow than ice to me , maybe it’s because the color.
When spells hit monster the chilled effect and electrified effect on monster are not obvious enough(at least to me) and monster doesn’t give enough feedback on animation such as a twitch to let player feel that spell hits the monster.
And I hope you can do this(
For example, during the melee portion of the showcase, the strange metal clanging that occurs on specific targets like the plant enemies we saw earlier just felt straight up weird. I feel like that would be a great sound against armored targets, but if I'm fighting a plant, I'd expect a softer, maybe more muted slice and dicing. Less obvious and maybe more of a preference thing is how the sound of Blizzard was a bit too whispy and flat. I'm sure the stream/video didn't lend the sound any favors, so I'm not about to jump on that too hard, but it would be nice if we could hear things like the ice shards falling on impact, coupled with the whisp of harsh winds as you'd expect to hear from a blizzard.
First off, I just have to say I'm LOVING the idea of a battle-mage in this world. It was funny to see a little cloth-bearing magic user wield a massive two-handed sword, but I think the application of this is too good to pass up. Criticism of sound aside, I think the abilities were good. Slowly moving with the Blizzard around you is a great take on the typical AOE we're used to seeing with casters. When seeing these different elements come into play, I thought how cool it would be to master a specific set of elemental abilities, and Steven does mention this, which I am so happy about. If I ever played Mage, I'd want to spec far into Fire and see how that turns out. BTW, kudos to the dev who pulled off the move against the Rock Elemental where he casted the Lightening Ball and immediately used Blink through the elemental into a Cone of Cold to leash it back into the damage of the lightening and Cone of Cold. That was badass, but it also really showcased how an effective Mage can create their own damage patterns with each element.
Overall, this was a good showcase to watch, and I have to agree with others saying that this archetype has come such a long way since Alpha One. You guys are killing it with the amount of progress you're making. I hope my soapbox on Sound Design made sense, but I know we have plenty of time to get there, and I'm enjoying the development journey so far.
2) One thing I hate is when you are casting and u can do cancellation of action.. like you started to cast, you need to finish it kinda thing. I consider this tactical error,... like u are low hp but you chose spell thats aoe casting and minor movement.. u put your hp on the line hoping you kill the enemy before it comes to you
3) Loved all the spell, I think maybe the electrical ball could move a bit slower.. maybe less damage but slower. I am guessing now is faster but more damage since the ball will pass through quicker
4) please do the rest of the class showcase like this.. much better..
5) I love ice magic, maybe the spikes could be a bit smaller, blizzard is cool. overall love the showcase.. so far the best mage type mmorpg I seen in a long time
I would like to see 2 stat options though available
Spell hast aka faster cast speed
and concentration i guess increased movespeed while casting
these stat options on armor/talents/archetype upgrades and thing i think would go a long way to bring the mage together (might already be the case) but figured i would mention it
How dost thou plan to balance the realm of Player versus Player combat between melee and those possessing tab target ranged abilities? Behold the scene at the twentieth minute and the fiftieth second in the video; it is evident that skill becomes superfluous when one may simply circumvent obstacles while their abilities effortlessly seek their target without the need for prowess.
Might there exist a conceivable notion of segregating the servers, thereby allowing for an action-oriented combat realm and a tab target realm? Such a stratagem could serve as a fine means to discern the prevailing preference among the populace, for I find it difficult to fathom that the younger generation, constituting the majority and ever burgeoning in numbers, would incline toward this antiquated style of combat. The game presents a splendid visage, and the amalgamation of elemental abilities wrought by your team is undeniably remarkable; however, the combat itself is a cause for concern. Let us be frank, this game is unlikely to be released ere 2025 or thereafter, and we are then expected to engage in combat reminiscent of MMOs from the year 2005 as we venture into the 2030s?
The game remains in its nascent stages, and I beseech thee to diligently consider devising a more fitting system than alternating between tab target and whichever variant of "Action Combat" thou art compelled to toggle between. Truthfully, I would care not even if it were a balanced fusion of the two, for that tab targeting and the dearth of invulnerability frames are truly perplexing phenomena.
If thou hast endured my diatribe thus far, I extend my gratitude, and I eagerly anticipate thy opinion on the matter!
I love that you can move while casting spells. It makes perfect sense that you just move a bit slower. From a combat perspective I would say if you can't move your a sitting duck. I think that if you become stuck in place for a full cast, that should be a pretty powerful spell to make up for that vulnerability.
The combos on the stream looked promising. In fact it looked pretty fun setting them up. I am excited to see how they interactive with others classes abilities. The complexity of the rotation looks good, it looked diverse and yet not too complicated. If too many spells exist, most will go unused for the average player.
I am excited to see how the Mage Archetype controls the battle. Mages can win or lose a fight, depending on the utility they provide.
I really think that it is cool that the Mage Archetype can use weapons, beyond staffs, wands, etc. With an elemental nature to them. Looks really fun.
I liked the targeting of the spells a lot. I like that you can tab target, and yet still have some spells that need to be aimed and positioned. I have always found aiming every spell and attack is exhausting, and in a large fight it can be quite difficult to see the target, much less hit it. I think you all have a good targeting system.
Strong feedback frands ❤️🙏
My only issue is it using Melee Weapons, that said we have not tested it.
How do you feel about being able to move while casting spells? Do you like the agency given to you, or does it feel unnatural?
Looks right for PVP, Bit slow for PVE. But once again we have not tested it.
How do you feel about the transitions between spells? Does this feel natural to you?
Overall I'd say its fine, bit slow, then bit fast, Bit to combo focused, there was a pause in the demo at some points between the same skills - As I'm not playing mage I didn't deep dive into which skills. It could be due to the guy playing just delaying the input so the debuff is confirmed to do the combo action? To hard to say for sure without know more & not having tested it
How do you feel about the general or rotational complexity of the Mage Archetype? Does it feel too simple, too hard, or just right?
Looks right, but once again we have not tested it.
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Mage Archetype?
Mages are OP cancer in all games, So nothing. I especially do Not look forward to 30second sleeps.
What are your favorite Mage archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
Necromancer gw2 & Final Fantasy Type-0 Ace who uses cards to attack (mixed melee, ranged, mage)
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Mage Archetype?
Very concerned at player feedback, Very concerned you will speed it up when it has blink, Very concerned you will speed it up when it has shield, Very concerned you will speed it up when casting AOE's so in PVP players cant approach the class in combat, VERY CONCERNED you will not have high recast on CC's (for all classes in PVP).
Here is my humble feedback:
I felt like some of the spell's casting speeds were too slow (f.e. Chain lightning, Lightning strike and Frostbolt), losing a lot of fluidity in combat. Maybe because the character is still low level? Either way this has a simple solution, just need to find the balance in dps between casting speed and damage output.
I like Diablo 2's Sorceress combat, it feels quick, fluid and impactful, despite being a hack & slash there is a lot of good things there that could be translated into AoC.
I would like to see the blizzard as a template placed AoE.
The lightning spells SFX sounded more like an electrical discharge when a thunder noise would feel more powerful and impactful, specially for Lightning Strike (or maybe save that sound for a critical hit), making the spell feel more *CLICK* Nice!
Also the blizzard SFX didn't sound like Ice.
Overall it looked really good, the combo system seems good as well as the mage's mechanics. It's only details that need refining IMO.
That being said, my congratulations on the great job that the team is doing, keep it up!
Big request: please have spells not limited to certain predefined sets. Define their properties from archtype, subtype, gear, attributes, buffs etc. Under the hood make them consist of technical building blocks, to enable a large number of combinations.
For example chain lightning splits into multiple branches when character subtype has certain properties. Of mage would fly higher on casting when less tanky. Or lightning would produce a storm with some elemental focused mage.
Best Archetype reveal so far. Heading towards right direction.
How do you feel about being able to move while casting spells? Do you like the agency given to you, or does it feel unnatural?
The idea of slower movement while casting is good. However I think it was a bit to slow. Moving while casting needs to still feel useful and benefitial compared to being rooted. Maybe walking speed while casting?
How do you feel about the transitions between spells? Does this feel natural to you?
Generally this felt good. Using the wand to stack a debuff was nice. Not sure how this would feel though with slower weapons.
How do you feel about the general or rotational complexity of the Mage Archetype? Does it feel too simple, too hard, or just right?
This I felt is just right. Complexity is good.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Mage Archetype?
Excited about the complexity and huge potential of different playstyles / customization for the Archetype.
I have a bit mixed feelings about the curved lightning. The idea is cool, but line of sight should apply to atleast 90% of spells. Curving the attack should be a rare exception. Magical bolts, missiles etc should not be curvable.
The wizard hat Icon shown in the UI showcase is a better fit for the mage than the current book + symbol applied. I feel like the book and flame could just as easily apply to the cleric or the summoner, where as with the wizard hat it is clear that this is a mage.
General feedback on the stream & Archetype preview
Definitely a good call to show the mage solo this time. Seeing a healthy number of abilities and them demonstrated clearly was good.
I would have liked to see the player model though from different angles. Race is a huge component in class fantasy. Some combinations of races + archetypes just feel better than others. Showing the model in more detail would only take a minute and allow us to give feedback to you on it. Maybe for the cyclops stream we could take a quick look in more detail of the player models? I would also hope that when the charactor creator now receives its update on other races this milestone (according to the Q&A), that eventually when ready the current player models for the fighter, ranger, cleric, tank and now mage would be replaced with other models representing different races and genders.
For the remaining Archetype reveals I hope that you continue to reveal them in different settings. For example it makes sense to show the bard in raid or group level play, but for the rogue a solo adventuring showcase could be sensible. For the summoner it would be nice to see how a dps / healer / tank orientated summoner fills a gap in a group that does not already have an archetype for that in it. Variety is good.
Overall good work!
I find it a bit awkward to have weapons disappear during spell animations, particularly while wielding the large 2-hander shown on stream. I think it would be really cool to work weapons into the animations instead. For example, the start of the ball lightning animation spell could involve driving the player's weapon into the ground to free both of their hands. Then, once the spell completes, a telekinetic pull could bring the weapon back into the player's hand(s).
I also feel that the way the character holds their weapon during the blizzard animation is somewhat unnatural while wielding a 2-hander. The weapon sways around quite a bit, and I would definitely be worried about cutting myself if I was holding such a heavy weapon up in the air with only one hand. Instead, I think I would either want to hold the weapon in a reverse grip, pointing it downwards, or hold it close with the flat of the blade against my back to minimize torque and reduce weapon sway.
Because the ball lightning spell really reminds me of a plasma orb, I would like to see the lightning arcs interact with the bubble, creating little shockwaves when they touch.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Mage Archetype?
I'm really excited to play a melee focused mage! One concern that I have with the battlemage playstyle is that I usually can't have my cake and eat it too. With other games, I'm either squishy and have to spend too much time healing between each pull, or I hit like a limp noodle because I've sacrificed a ton of damage in order to increase my survivability. I will be very interested to see if you can make this playstyle competitive.
"The blizard" spell feels weightless and unimpactful.
Also decals from spells could linger a bit longer. To get that feeling of scarred battlefield through the fight.
Why ....just why u cant do something mysterious or scary ? big job was done , and I can see it ....but not in that direction what people expect (i read comments, not all but many)
big dissapointed about sounds !! very very big no ... (i think you actually dont work on that part or u will be , i dont know)
what I saw looked like blasters from star wars , or from cartoon for kids ...come on guys! do some bass , make some thunder etc. do some adult stuff) colors ....come on! ice with more spikes ( i saw links on youtube with game from 2012 Dragons dogma , look at that beauty ! that is so .... ooohh! this is what i expect , but optimised for online mmorpg )... i can explain with one sound of my expectations - in game called Apex , there is character Revenant , just try his tactical skill "Silence" - and thats it!
He launched lightning ball and it went down the steps instead of going in straight line above them.
Then he blink up stairs and it got him at the top of them as the spell was also following invisible path instead of getting stuck at the bottom of those stairs.
Then he blinked from one cliff to another in straight line.
So the question is why blink which was clearly following available ground path didn't stopped in the air between cliffs or below on the ground? If this follows ground paths like all the spells, the jump between cliffs increased the range of the spell which is inconsistent for me. I'm bamboozled about this so can someone explain?
If the mage jump off the cliff and ise blink he will land on the ground without damage or he will move in straight line in the air and continue to fall?
What is the trajectory of the spells based on?
However, I think you should not just rework the best of them each time, try to iterate on them a little bit, with nowadays technology you can do what Blizzard devs didn't even try to imagine.
I'm an ex-mage player, before I swapped to rogue (which I hope will see soon with true stealth!) so I might have a few suggestions to apply for this class. I think it's good to give a mage a full kit of element spells accessible and let a player choose which path or element approach will choose to develop further, but the kit should stay. In early wow PvP I used a rank 1 frost bolt to cast fast slow as fire mage, etc. There could be ways to utilize spells from other schools. But I'd love to see some even more specific iterations of this class we didn't yet have much opportunity to play in games in general. I know it's a risky approach with new stuff but just imagine it with me.
1st example:
I always LOVED how Gandalf is fighting, I really wanna see a mage with a staff and Sword combo utilizing both on the field at very close range with spells just supporting his melee combat, blinding enemies, quick energy blasts... GO BACK TO THE SHADOWS! YOU SHALL NOT PASS!
2nd example:
In my opinion, there is no proper "dark mage" gameplay anywhere. So it definitely would be interesting if there are classical element paths and a dark path utilizing black and forbidden magic.
I liked how Illidan Stormrage was utilizing his abilities in books, to literally torture stuff, so the victim was suffering in fear and pain till the very last moment and he enjoys it. Games always portray a dark mage as a warlock which is a different thing to me. If there is a forbidden magic it should also be discovered by playing, so this path perhaps could open spell by spell which each might be a long and hard completing, time-consuming quest without actual quest giver and helping markers, directions, etc. Just figure it out in-game yourself.
I imagine these "black magic spells" to be just additions to the existing (perhaps frost) kit chosen by the player before, it could even be just animation changes I don't mind, but I'd really want something to develop and shape somehow myself. Imagine later in the game you see a mage player on the battlefield and instead of some burning effect a shadowy hand will appear and starts grasping you so you start losing your health like you are drowning etc.
3rd example:
Imagine that mana-shield of yours that just blocks damage could be developed into a kinda main combat thing that has a "shape" perhaps a "spectral knight armor" instead of just a bubble will appear and the player will be inside this spectral armor and become a melee fighter dealing magical damage instead etc, perhaps even be even become an off-tank for few second in dangerous situations or block just one big hit that tank would not survive, etc.
you can also iterate on spells individually. I mean is there a reason for spells not to do anything while casting, or if not cast properly to the end as expected? Not every spell should have such effects but imagine some big spell that needs to accumulate for like 5 seconds without moving with like 3 minutes cooldown, there perhaps could be sparks of unbound energy when melee is hitting the caster, and if someone presses some big damage to it, the spell might have a chance to break and knock everyone 10 meters around including the mage with everyone affected losing a portion of health due to badly handled cast. Would be also nice to give the mage some "mini-game" into these situations perhaps "press X" to handle the energy without losing it to the mentioned breakpoint etc. Or when generating that "ball of energy" traveling forward, that could perhaps just be released smaller with less damage if not cast whole and yet took the whole cooldown or just a portion of it to scramble the PVP gameplay. Or even regular bolts, make most of them castable while moving but with a lot of downgrades, perhaps if moving the spell might have a bigger chance to miss, or do less damage. The more unpredictable it is the more fun it will be because everyone is cheating in a way, and everyone counting enemy cooldowns, etc and that's not that healthy (to me at least). Would be nice to manipulate things more, which is basically the origin of this class.
These are things I want to see in nowadays games. Otherwise nice, work I like it just how like I liked the WoW mage before, now put some of yourself into it...