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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
I understand an portion of the community might have concerns with the spell casting/weapon wielding dynamics/aesthetics, But I also appreciate that Mages and other classes will have access to all weapons and armor and do not want to pigeon hole a wizard/mage archetype into a wizardywoo wand/book/staff swisher.
So movement/abilities/skill bar etc all great so far.
I will also add my voice to the : keep the lighting plasma ball and remove the snow globe shell to the spell effect. Comunity feedback sentiment pile.
2 thumbs up Intrepid...Don't let haters grind you down.
Actually seeing more skills on the hotbar was honestly a relief. I've been worried about the amount of skills we would have available at our disposal as I am one of those players that prefer to have around 10 or more skills to flush out a rotation as well as utilities, which we have absolutely not seen in previous showcases. I understand that we are being shown what would be low level characters in low level areas but a man can dream and I'd rather not dream about hitting my auto/basic attack button.. over and over and over again.
My only real negative critiques would be the lightning skills bending around LOS and how that may be used and or abused later on. I think we all have some negative feelings towards that (even though it's admittedly pretty damn cool) but I can't have a concrete stance without seeing the mages full kit. Maintaining LOS in PvP encounters and forcing players to move to your advantage, especially pesky ranged players, is sometimes the only strategy and I'd hate to see the taken away. Conversely, a mage abusing the mechanic to remain in LOS to disrupt an objective or what have you, could lead to some major frustrations.
My only other gripe would be the style of the frost skills. They seem very cartoonish to me compared to the rest and I'd love to see it more transparent and ice/glass like. They did look cool but they stood out much more compared to other skills showcased. This is also a sentiment I had regarding the animation for the party damage reduction skill shown in the tank showcase. The electric AOE ball was also not entirely to my fancy. I wish I could give feedback on how to improve that one but my few remaining brain cells have yet to formulate an idea.
All in all, it does remind me of the mages in Archage (with its elemental interactions and combos) but also of that in TERA (RIP) which I was a huge fan of. I seldom play mage but I was hooked on it during my time on TERA for quite a while. I think allowing the extra movement to adjust is fantastic, not too over or undertuned, while still emphasizing the big damage and slower casting speeds and the need for such a mage to posses some modicum of awareness. (Although I wouldn't mind the Black Mage memes from FFXIV to filter over in their own little way). I find this type of game play much more appealing conpared to that seen in games like BDO. There seemed to be a good balance between single target and AOE abilities, even using AOE abilities to apply stacks faster which keeps them from being useless during single target encounters. The use of the greatsword also seemed really cool, I dont believe its implementation was flushed out as well as it should be but it gives me a lot of ideas and I'm all for it. So, good job! I'm looking forward to seeing what improvements are made.
Can't really comment on transitions between spells/complexity without playing.
Seems like there is no diminishing returns on cc atm, like the freeze effect, you stack 5 for the frozen root, you can't build more frozen stacks while the frozen root is active but you can start building them immediately again after the frozen root ends and repeat with no DR on the root duration.
I don't know if the freeze effect stacks from multiple mages but now you could possibly just perma root people by having multiple mages spam frost spells.
+ need better tooltips with cooldown, damage, duration and such
I like the idea of building debuffs with elements and then purging those debuffs with another element. I think that thinking of long-term viability is important here because its very easy to make things that look cool or seem cool on paper but in practice arent viable.
How do you feel about being able to move while casting spells? Do you like the agency given to you, or does it feel unnatural?
I think this is the way to go 100%, mages should be able to move while casting. Maybe spell cast time should decrease while standing still though.
How do you feel about the transitions between spells? Does this feel natural to you?
This part seems good.
How do you feel about the general or rotational complexity of the Mage Archetype? Does it feel too simple, too hard, or just right?
I dont feel like its particularly complex. I would like to see possibly 2 debuffs per element, with different elements breaking each of those 2 debuffs. For example we saw frost and lightning working together. I think frost and fire should have something together as well. And lighting and earth - something along the lines of grounding of some sort. I dont want to be pigeonholed into having to play ice/lighting together if i want to play lightning and vice versa.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Mage Archetype?
Im not particularly impressed with the skill animations. They do not seem impactful. The blizzard animation didnt much look like a blizzard to me at all. Chain lightning seemed ok, but the ball lightning and lighting bolt(?) didnt seem like they had that oomph of "ive just shot lighting out). I think ball lightnings use case seemed rather niche - for example the dps window of it seemed super short in use. Maybe there should be some sort of mechanic for it when it can slow down or follow a target hit by it with some sort of static lighting mechanic? Blizzard to me seems like something that could be small when initially cast and grows over time to be larger and larger at the cost of mana? I would like to see more blizzard effects with it and not the Ice sicles(?) that rain down. Maybe more of a mist and snow/ground effects? I am not sure really, its just not very appealing to view. the arcane spells looked fine, and blink looked amazing.
Movement was great, the class seemed fluid.
The horizontal interaction between the elements is a feature that you should double down on. What was shown was good but a system that just seems to have layer after layer would be amazing.
Concerned about the time to kill shown. If it takes that long for a dps to kill a common mob then leveling a tank or healer will be awful.
The abilities were not doing nearly enough damage. If felt like a lot of work with little to no payoff. I expect that pace leveling a healer. The longer the build up the greater the impact, but that did not seem to be case.
Like others have said sickles should fall from sky on blizzard spell and stick into the ground and maybe explode after couple of seconds.
The "frost" effect on the ground just looks lie someone draw some lines on the ground and doesnt "pop" or feel frosty. And they all look the same.
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The only thing that I want to see is a indicator on how much the barrier has left when cast over the health bar, since there was no description what it scales on, i'd like an indicator for it thats all, the rest felt nice i feel some of the lightning spells are a bit too tame? if that makes sense, it seems too linear and focused when lightning as an element? is chaotic so I'd like to see more wild and random strikes when casting the electro ball looks honestly quite bland it looks too much like a plasma ball if the outer shell was lighter and the lightning strikes were as said before a bit more aggressive then it would really feel like a Lightning mage fantasy, also how many spells of each element will there be? like what if someone has a roleplay build of a full frost mage is that available or is it forcing to take other spells ( fire, earth lightning ect. )
Other than those the rest was amazing, combat seemed smooth, moving while casting is good its not too much but enough to still cast and move out of attack zones.
Ps. ThunderBird was Beautiful any hints as to where to find such a beast to tame?
2: Being able to move while casting spells feels great, a caster that can't move while casting isn't a mage, it's a first time novice that's just now learning how to cast simple spells imo.
3: The transition feels fine.
4: I feel like the general complexity of the class might be too much depending on how much damage it deals, as previously said, the more difficult and complex a class is to play, the greater it should reward the player. No two ways about this, I'm mainly concerned about the mage's viability in PvP at the high level (semi-pro, pro) compared to other classes but this needs to be fleshed out more to paint a full picture of whether mage will be quite literally bad at PvP due to needing all the combos to deal good damage or whether the other classes will be made in such a way that the mage will fit just right.
6: I think the effects on some spells, especially Lightning, the shield and the moving ball lighting need a lot more polish. They are perfectly fine for a first showcase for sure, but they lack detail and look out of place (ball lightning, shield) or simply are too weak / lack impact or oomph (Lightning). On the other hand, Blizzard, Forstbolt, teleport and cone of cold looked great.
And I think the duration of sleep should be greatly reduced, but made it instantaneous. Because while it is applied, the enemy can shoot him down or retreat.
2) Not so much as feed-back but interesting going forward nonetheless, will the different elemental effect proc different effects depending on which other element that consume/proc with it.
This would require a bit more balancing as to make the options situational, but would surely contribute something to the way you approach combat in different situations as a mage. Here my inspiration leans on Magicka and Divinity Original Sin, whilst not being MMOs, have simple yet incredibly deep mage systems.
3) Graphics. Lightning effects were on spot. I love to see it being toned down to a more realistic art style. I'd have to concur with many other posters on the frost effects being clunky. I'd prefer them to be whiter (blue ice really isn't very common) and less chunky. The usage of mist during the blizzard was pretty good though. The ground effect with snowflakes extending and retracting was interesting and felt fresh, but could use some more tinkering. Personal preference here, but I would love some crisper sound correlating to them snow flakes on the ground. There's a specific sound where chunks of cold pressed snow is applies friction and pressure which almost chirps and cracks. I think that would be an excellent choice of sound design.
4) Suppose I'm not a big fan of the way frost mines work in the cone spell. But hey can't win them all.
5) Something supposedly far reaching is the ability to manipulate terrain. Creating chunks of stone/earth that blocks vision, movement and to some extent projectiles would be an amazing addition to the mage set.
6) I wish the fire mage set would include a utility spell that creates a lot of dense black smoke. Id like the smoke to be rather tall. It could apply a small debuff in a small AoE. It's main usage would be to reduce sight/information which obviously makes certain aimed abilities harder to pull of. Could work as camouflagedfor other players or as an opportunity for escape. Or perhaps as communication of a distance in organized guild activities. If not limited to a fire mage, perhaps a craftable item could produce a similar effect.
7) I've always appreciated control gameplay with situational burst, situational mobility and limited defense (I cannot stress how important it is to limit the two first). I really enjoy having the mage set using a lot of longer cast time spells. Obviously some spells should be instant or near instant (such as blink). Longer cast times should obviously have that additional reward bound to it - which is something you already have down. However I think that, the elemental flashiness, reduced mobility, increased crowd control, weak defenses is the main differing themes that sets the mage apart from a ranger.
8) I would enjoy different elements being stronger versus different mobs. Nothing fancy, just ice damage being strong versus fire elementals. Doesn't necessarily have to apply to all mobs.
9) Make sure to balance sleep properly
10) I would enjoy a self-destruct skill (again perhaps exclusive to the fire mage) which deals huge amount of damage in a small-medium aoe centered on the player. However it has a long cast time, during which you're not slowed or hampered in your casting. However it cannot be interrupted by the player and results in your own death. It could be used as a last resort vs melees when one is sure to go down and would in some cases perhaps turn the offender on the run and if said offender doesn't manage to escape both players die. It would create scenarios where the game turns into a game of tag.
11) A lot of people dislike hard crowd control. Suppose I'm just used to it. A simple solution however is to instead of being completely rooted one gets a massive slow (think 90%). That was one doesn't lose ones ability to interact with movement completely even though it gets hampered.
12) I think utility spells is a must for the mage and rogue skill kit. More of those please.
13) I love that its possible to blink over gaps in terrain. Brilliant.
I think the mage looked great. I like that the mage has a diverse kit to deal with different situations. I liked the animations for spells and I also really liked the animations for basic wand attacks.
How do you feel about being able to move while casting spells? Do you like the agency given to you, or does it feel unnatural?
I think being able to move while casting and being slowed for high impact casts is the way to go so the combat doesn't feel static.
How do you feel about the transitions between spells? Does this feel natural to you?
I think the transitions were really good.
How do you feel about the general or rotational complexity of the Mage Archetype? Does it feel too simple, too hard, or just right?
I think the complexity looked good considering that we only saw part of the mages kit and that we didn't see any combos with other classes yet.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Mage Archetype?
Two possible concerns:
1) I hope we will be able to see other players' cast bars so you can aniticipate attacks without knowing all the animations. I also hope we will be able to interrupt casts with specific abilities like kicks or silences.
2) I hope mage+mage+mage+... won't we a very strong combo. I could see mage partys being strong because they can stack debuffs like electrified or chilled. I think the combos with other classes should be stronger than combos with other mages.
All in all a great showcase, the best so far. Keep up the great work!
I would love to see longer-lasting visual effects on the environment after a fight, especially when spells have been cast that impact the ground. After a battle, it doesn't feel like it was a tough fight, at least not visually.
Regarding the spells, I like that it's more of the classic fantasy route and not like a mobile game's final-fantasy-like action mage who can do everything. However, I feel like the impact of a mage being attacked is missing. I'd expect a mage to have to focus on their spells, so if they are in close combat and get hit, their concentration should fail or be drastically diminished, especially when casting complex spells. Mages are typically glass cannons, like thieves/rogues, so if they get punched in the face, they get distracted. They should distinguish themselves from fighters/tanks when in close quarter combat.
As for the idea of mages being able to wield a two-handed sword, it's a bit weird, and I hope that the balancing is done well. I'm eagerly looking forward to it.
All in all, it was a very neat character introduction, and I hope that many more presentations like that will follow.
Why was the preview done in this way?
For a full archetype preview I'd expect:
- Talent tree or similar system if that's going to be a thing in Ashes
- Talking about what makes mage unique compared to other casters
(like do only mages get the elemental stack interaction system when using elemental magic or does it apply to more things. Or perhaps when you pick mage as a secondary class)
- Weapons available (if all weapons for any class - then specific mage interactions with the weapons if they exist)
- Low level character for levelling feel
- Max level character with multiple builds (like fire vs frost vs lightning fully decked out)
- Character free casting against static and mobile golems/target dummies to show how abilities work with aoe or single target
- Design philosophy stated
- Short snappy 1 min trailer where an obvious mage character casts cool abilities to start the preview off with
- What does mage offer as a secondary class (extra talents, passives, general overview of ability modifications)
Instead what we got was:
- Arguably good or bad visuals for spells
- Fighting against plants?
- Lightning orb
- Blink
- Elemental stack interactions
- Lightning spells sometimes ignoring line of sight.
Then once you finished at least three archtypes this way, have those three run through a curated pve experience on screen so you can show their strenghts and weaknesses and interactions with each other.
Later on when secondary classes become available for testing in production do another video PER CLASS where you show off the way they interact with other classes if they get added on to the base class or what they offer to other classes when picked as a secondary.
What could have been:
The preview right now killed any hope and interest I had in the game. It feels like you showed random magic abilities on a guy with a mage hat as opposed to actually talking about and showing us the mage as it is intended.
If I were to compare it to Arch Age this video is akin to showing a character with half an archetype out of the three they can pick for their character. No interactions with its own class or other systems. Or Blizzard showing off a level 10 warrior with no selected specialization and only heroic strike, charge and thunderclap unlocked and asking us to be interested and impressed. It seriously feels like Intrepid is shooting themselves in the foot by releasing this content in this way in the hopes of generating hype instead of a more planned and structured way to communicate how classes are supposed to work.
I'm terrified of players and fans praising this product just because they want it out now/faster instead of actually looking at what was shown. Not realizing how bad and uninteresting it actually looked because of how bad and uninteresting so many mmorpgs already are around us right now and our desperate desire for a new game we can base our personalities on for the next 15 years.
I beg you to postpone the next preview if you have to. Retcon the mage and the tank previews. Release a structured preview for both instead. Or treat these videos are spell / ability demos for melee and magical ranged characters. Not as a full on archetype preview because it seriously failed at that for me.
I'll write it again. This preview was an incredible dissappointment to me. Both from a gameplay perspective based on what was shown but also from a PR standpoint for Intrepid itself.
I understand making a game is a lot of work and not all of what I expect for a good archetype preview will be available for showing to the public at this time. But you are able to adress these things as future content to come. Adress that another video will be made where these interactions will be shown. Show us how you envision the true Ashes hybrid combat to look in its finished state instead of this tab target let down.
The ashes battle royale looked and felt more enjoyable to play than this preview.
Oooh I like this. I would love to see this ingame. If nothing else, try it and compare.
How do you feel about the Mage Archetype so far?
- Great! I love the different schools of magic. I do not mind one bit that all schools were not shown off. Excited to test them when the time is right. Basic mage MMO spells included in the arsenal.
- I know this will be figured out in testing, but mana management should be a thing. It didn't appear this was ever an issue. I am not sure if that was tied in with ability cds turned off.
- Blink ability. Super clean! Thank you for nailing blink pathing
How do you feel about being able to move while casting spells? Do you like the agency given to you, or does it feel unnatural?
- I feel mage (really any caster/healer) should have a hybrid of rooted and moving while casting abilities. Power of the specific ability should dictate movement speed while casting. From a player perspective, it is nice to have ability to slowly move when channeling an ability (ex: Blizzard) due to normally high mana cost and cd. Flip side, it does separate players that do not have a movement when using a big ability to show off skill of timing/positioning (just a small thought).
- One example of this would be Cone of Cold. I feel this should be a bit more free to use while moving and less restrictive. As this ability appears to be more of a slow/root vs big damage.
How do you feel about the transitions between spells? Does this feel natural to you?
- A big thing from other games is the Global Cooldown (GCD) between abilities. I know this will be worked out during A2 and future testing. I am hopeful it will not be something super fast paced. The livestream looked like it displayed a good pace of transition.
How do you feel about the general or rotational complexity of the Mage Archetype? Does it feel too simple, too hard, or just right?
- I love the feel. There is complexity at level 15! That is super rare at this stage of an MMO. This also takes out some of the Random Number Generator (RNG) systems that other games put in place. For example, talent in World of Warcraft called Frostbite - percentage chance any frost effects on enemies can proc a root. That is random and was overpowered in early stages of WoW. I enjoy the build up. I am sure there will be diminishing return (DR) effects so a player cannot be continuously rooted over and over again. It is nice that as a player, you can control when you'd like something rooted vs RNG.
- I appreciate the short duration on Shell ability. As a mage player, having a shell/shield that can last around 60sec can be OP. Way more skill involved when the ability only lasts 5-10sec.
- Cone of Cold appears to be too large IMO. I'd suggest making the spell range a bit smaller since you can cast Frostbolt and slow enemies at a longer range.
- Sleep would be too OP as AoE. Either should be single target or if it can be AoE, duration should be halved.
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Mage Archetype?
- I love the kit. I love the mechanics. I am normally between a mage or support/healer due to the group of players I am with in MMOs. Looking forward to playing as a Mage!
- This will be the most difficult archetype to balance. The kit appears to be above and beyond the rest of archetypes shown. I know there will be a lot more to each (lvl 15 in A2)! I am hopeful each Archetype will have some pop to show off, if not all we will see is mages
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Mage Archetype?
- Huge topic with the community and I am looking forward to testing the game in A2 and beyond. I worry too many abilities are tab target. I know you can swap between tab and action combat, but I'd really prefer to see more skill shot. I highly enjoyed Tera combat of more of action combat. Majority of abilities were skill shot with some tab sprinkled in there.
- Steven, I appreciate you and all of the top end communication with this community! I enjoy when you play each archetype as well! I will say though, it is nice to see one of the developers that is skilled at the archetype, show off the archetype. Cool to see two different players utilize the archetype.
How do you feel about the Mage Archetype so far?
The elemental spell framework is a good direction.
How do you feel about being able to move while casting spells? Do you like the agency given to you, or does it feel unnatural?
Player agency is very important and the ability to move freely is a significant factor. I feel like some of the spells shown still run counter to this ideology, particularly if they have the appearance of charging but do not actually possess the charging mechanic like Frostbolt. If a spell looks like it's charging, then it should have that mechanic in place as well. Perhaps all non-instant spells could be chargeable, giving players the option to either remain stationary to charge their spells quickly, or move around while casting but receive a penalty to the charging rate. Edit: i.e. Stationary Cast = quicker charge; Mobile/Walking Cast = slower charge; potential for personal rhythms in spell rotation? Additionally, I think the slow floaty movement in the Blizzard spell feels a bit odd, and maybe some animation improvements could help with this.
How do you feel about the transitions between spells? Does this feel natural to you?
As far as observing the Mage, yes, they're fine. As for the damage transitions on multiple targets, unclear.
How do you feel about the general or rotational complexity of the Mage Archetype? Does it feel too simple, too hard, or just right?
The gameplay seems a bit simplistic as it appears all you need to do is spam through the abilities, only bothering to switch between elements. Until we can see the full scope of their repertoire against other players or elite mobs, it's difficult to judge whether there's any impactful strategy in spell selection.
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Mage Archetype?
Looks useful for mana burn parties and effective in crowded battlefields.
What are your favorite Mage archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
FFXI/FFXIV's Red Mage, Black Desert's Witch, Guild Wars 2's Elementalist
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Mage Archetype?
I think the Blizzard spell needs a bit of rework as it looks more like a hail themed, mini-meteor shower in slow motion rather than a blizzard that has turbulent high speed winds and blinding snow. Ball Lightning's ability to adjust its height with the elevation is neat, but the jerky abruptness of the movement is jarring. Also, a huge ball that shouts, "This is my AoE range!" is unnecessary. Players will adapt to its range without an obtrusive demonstration. A spell visually that large should only originate by siege/ship weapons, rituals, or from a raid boss. A more attractive approach would be a smaller ball (e.g. 20-inch beach ball) jam-packed with energy, arcs dancing across the surface of the orb containing it and finding their escape by lashing out to nearby targets. The chain lightning avoiding obstacles is impressive!
Finally, the one issue that continues to bother me is the stagnant mobility. A 20-second teleport doesn't do enough to offset the restrictive spell casting. I understand I'm biased here though, as I'm in the crowd of thought that completely dropping tab-targeting in favor of more dynamic action combat could enhance the gameplay experience.
P.S. See Westergard's breakdown on Page 3 of this discussion.
No, but they should be fun. And right now mage looks static and clunky and unfun. This is 2023 (probably 2025-2026 at launch). We don't want to play rooted turret caster classes anymore when other games have shown the potential in fluidity and fun of more mobile caster classes.
To look at this archetype from a wide viewpoint, if these abilities are just part of the overall pool of abilities that is available to the archetype, then this is a good start. Having a some spells that allow for motion is good and adds variety. Having combinations that allow players to have less verticality in specific spell types but to branch out into other spell types. So, like was mentioned in the live stream, you can have players that focus solely in a single spell type to have less horizontal ability and more rigid play style.
What I, and I think others are also wanting, is how these initial showcases of spells are just a small subset along with how they interact with all other archetypes. Say, for example, does the Archiwizard (mage/mage) are allowed all spells available to the whole archetype and ways to apply mutations to the spells the most. Possibly allowing a solely focused fire Archiwizard having many ways to mutation the various fire spells to be different from each other while another Archiwizard might focus on cold/earth to weave in conditions, slows, and controls.
Then, apply this full customization and maybe move into a Battlemage (mage/fighter) who focuses more on short ranged spells and having higher mobility than the Archiwizard, but still not wearing any heavier armor. Going further, the Spellsword (fighter/mage) would be a mage that applies spells to the weapons/armor they wield, providing survivability and bursts of damage when applying a spell to an attack, with less focus on mutations on spells and a smaller spell list than any main Mage archetype.
These situations are hard to see how the archetype will be applied and envisioned in the future. But, to see the current Mage archetype as just a bucket of abilities that will be molded into what the community is expecting, I believe this is a good start.
How do you feel about being able to move while casting spells? Do you like the agency given to you, or does it feel unnatural?
I see nothing unnatural about this. Some of these abilities should allow movement while others shouldn't. Having mutations that changes the spells is absolutely encouraged, from my point of view. Take the Blizzard spell, I would imagine that a mutation would change this PBAOE to a targeted AOE would be expected by the community by large. And the exploding ice shards should also be a mutation that just isn't in the spell automatically. Adding these mutations allow for variability and uniqueness to allow each player to feel unique in their builds.
How do you feel about the transitions between spells? Does this feel natural to you?
Transitions, meaning the animations and timing between being allowed to cast spells and move? From the stream, it seems good on the surface. But, it would be hard to gauge until actual play can be experienced and I reserve judgement.
How do you feel about the general or rotational complexity of the Mage Archetype? Does it feel too simple, too hard, or just right?
At this point, I don't even care about how it feels because there isn't enough implementation of the archetypes and mutations for each ability to matter. This is just a showcase of possible stuff. I wholly expect what was shown here will be completely different once design has moved forward.
What excites you about playing as, with, or against the Mage Archetype?
The endless possibilities that you have archetypes AND customization within a single archetype.
What I am expecting, and I think the community as a whole, is that you have this GIANT pool of spells across the whole archetype. The Archiwizard would have access to most of them, for the ones that matter. While the Battle Mage would have access to a smaller subset of spells, with some overlap with Archiwizard, but some that only the Battle Mage has access to, which the Spellsword would have very little overlap with Archiwizard, instead having various spells that would only cast through the wielded weapon, thus technically would be unique spells to themselves.
Then, in this entire GIANT list of spells, each spell would have many mutations for each, either focusing on greater DPS, adding DOTs, add new conditions, or focusing on the elemental stacks to cause new conditions/damage/ect.
It's this intricate web of a large spell list, mutations/modifiers of each spell, along with archetypes that would have unique spells or the ability to apply spells in new situations (melee combat spells), is what excites me with seeing the Mage archetype in multiclass setting.
What are your favorite Mage archetypes in other games? Please provide examples when applicable.
The possibility of having a wide spell list, such like D&D, that has all the major elements shown, but also having other spell schools, like Abjuration/Conjuration/Divination/Enchantment but applying it into a gameplay loop that feels more like a combination of slower combat like WoW but fluidity of GW2 is tantalizing. But, the Mage needs to feel like the old school games, like Everquest, but with customization.
WoW Mage had the focus in it's three simple elements, Fire/Ice/Arcane that fit the universe well and felt very, very good. Animations made sense, wasn't over the top but had enough flair and visual elements to feel satisfying. While the talent tree was small, each talent felt impactful.
Everquest Wizard/Conjuror/Necromancer/Enchanter was a perfect splitting of classes and spells to hit all the archetypes to cover all the spells that made magic felt special and unique. Wizard with its big damage numbers and control, Conjuror with its ability to utilize pets and magic to control and damage their target, Necromancer to use health, DOTs, and various debuffs to make the target wither away, and the Enchanter which allowed for controlling of adds, buffs, and unique damaging spells.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited, or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Mage Archetype?
As mentioned above, I am excited for all the possibilities of the various combinations of archetypes, base spells, and talents/mutations that could lead to the widest combination of varied gameplay within a single class.
I guess with all that said down to business with this months AWSOME mage reveal. I personally was getting a little bit worried about the brightness of the spells and graphics after the last few (Tank / Cleric) previews which to me and most the people I know was to busy honestly part of a reason lots of games are not enjoyable any more as all you see is bright lights and no game play. However with the Mage dial back spells it was great to see and knowing that there is still several passes to go to fine tune I implore you keep this direction. There is nothing worse then not being able to actually see the game when I play it. Also to be honest if I have to go to the settings to stuff around with bits and bobs I just wont be bothered and will be turned off the game before it even starts. This sediment is felt much larger then you may realise. Majority of the players don’t follow the “Influences” “Youtubers” etc. They just talk about the games at work and get together and game like the old days you are tyring to return.
With the spells types I am excited to see Frost / Fire / Electric /Earth. This to me is a mage mix to the core like you see in the movies and read in fantasy books. I further really like the mix ability combos and such. My partner who is a mage player through and through even liked this. My only concern is and it was touched on slightly in the update is specialisation into individual magic types. I know I am more of a combo player where as my partner is a Fire mage through and though. I personally would like to see each spell class type be able to spec down a solid path that makes they powerful in that area knowing they will sacrifice their strengths in the other 3…but then have the combo player bonus worth the difference if specing that way.
The ability to move while casting is a must. Nothing is more annoying then being rooted in place. Its just not realistic. I 1000000% like the slowed moving. It makes it realistic. It shows you are concentrating on the spell therefor the speed of movement is scarified as a result. If it is possible maybe some select spells could have a bonus damage if you stay rooted….The risk of staying in one place for greater DPS???
All in all I think this type of showcase was great. We see in a casual way the abilities and their explanations. Moving forward seeing the mage introduced into parties will then be able to showcase group play and the detail of each can be soaked up as needed opposed to trying to do it all at once.
Know from Brisbane we are rooting for the game and we believe you are heading in the right direction. The graphics are great the concept is on point and it is what we have all been missing for to long.
Mage gameplay does not look rooted, didnt see any cast that roots you in place, i know that its not BDO, but BDO combat is trash for MMO, cuz it kills all team play that is so important in mmo.
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It's possible you misunderstood her comment.
Mage combat in Ashes looks absolutely rooted, every cast made during the preview apart from the instant ones roots you in place while casting if you actually want to get them to fire. The spells did not root you in place as in placing a CC on you but they inforce you standing still if you want to actually perform your role as a mage.
Sure you can move to cancel the cast if you don't want the raging warrior to shove his Colon Widener Supreme TM up yours but that also means you don't deal damage.
Hell, even terrible tab target mmorpgs like WoW have ways for mages to mitigate their boring turret gameplay by offering;
Ice floes which lets you walk while casting for a short while but has a cooldown / charges.
Scorch which lets you move while casting but deals less damage as a trade off.
Shimmer which lets blink/teleport not cancel casting but also has charges / cooldown.
Flap/hover on a cooldown for Evokers allowing them a pretty long time of mobile casting so you aren't forced to stand around and drool while channeling your blue beam attack.
Shamans have stuff like spiritwalking, druids have a talent to allow them to cast while walking around in their starfall, warlocks have have it the worst since they can only use things like their mark/recall ability.
Most classes have some form of talents or resources they can spend to cast instant spells like lavabursts being free and instant on flame shock ticks proccing or instant pyroblast chaining for fire mages or even maelstrom/predatory swiftness for half casters like Enhancement Shaman and Feral Druids allowing them to heal during combat or use their many spells for utility.
You mention BDO being garbage for an mmorpg because it kills teamplay.
BDO's witch has to stand still for many of her casts but she also has:
Shifting left/right/forward/back with barely any cooldown
A double teleport with a mid long cooldown
Several attacks that slightly shift her left or right (earth attacks in succession)
BDO's combat is garbage for PvE groupplay because there's no content that requires a tank/healer since everyone is a dps. BDO isn't a PvE game at all but a glorified grinding game with nodewars and guild pvp.
It doesn't need group or team play beyond a small amount of synergy, group buffs and healing while shoving colon wideners up peoples asses during a war. Nobody even plays Shai in PvP unless they have a full DP gear set because damage and infinite potions make her almost pointless. They even nerfed wiz/witch healing and valkyries only exist as a centaur grinding meme and duelling burst class even though they have a group DP buff and healing.
Ashes is going to be a PvX game with a holy trinity. Group play is incredibly important here and yes you can argue that a tank and a healer can protect a stationary boring turret mage who the hell wants to play such a class in 2023. Look at games like ESO or GW2, most if not all classes can move while casting in any shape or form as it should be. Give classes tools to mitigate enemy movement and interrupt their casting. Give classes ways to widen gaps or disengage.
Don't force an archaic uninteresting gameplay style on us that should have stayed buried in the early 2000's.
Mage in the preview looked like it functioned but did not look fun. The gameplay loop for mages that was proposed in this preview looked stale, stationary and bland. I think we can hope for more than that for an upcoming mmorpg that we hope is genre defining...
The best news we can give to people who hope(d) for action combat after this preview is that Riot is still working on their mmorpg and Pax Dei looks interesting.
Yes, yes it does. Being able to move at 20% movement speed still looks and feels essentially rooted in place. You can move maybe a foot to the side. That's essentially being rooted.
Exactly this! I really don't want to play a game where every character feels like they have claudication every time they use an ability.
well yea, you get bug slow on every cast, movement does not cancel the casting, for the amount of slow you get.. idk, but % on that is easy to change in balance, im not sure
We dont know exact and i think this % is likely a subject to change, but idk
Why do base nukes (frostbolt, lightning strike, arcane volley) have cooldowns and cast times? The only thing I can think of is to force us to auto-attack to stack effects, or as a general DPS limiter. Rather than force skill rotation, let the base nukes just be castable and let mana management control their cast frequency. Having small cooldowns everywhere just gets annoying and leads to ability/button bloat
How about offering a talent/trait that alters its behaviour?
I think it would be pretty nice to roll a lightning ball down an incline towards a group of mobs / players
Making the ball always follow the line of casting would mean the orb would fly over their heads harmless
Then for a dragonfight where you want to aim at its chest / head for maximum damage you'd then switch to the line cast option.