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Bidding is a terrible way to handle freeholds

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Comments

  • GarrtokGarrtok Member, Alpha Two
    Catmonkey wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    Catmonkey wrote: »
    But I _do_ still want somewhere to call my own. Even if I don't have a freehold, I presume I will still get furniture drops, or be able to buy or create furniture, for example. So yeah, I still want someone where put that.
    You'll have an apartment to put those in.

    OK, but where will I plant my potatoes? It seems to me growing food is something that's going to be closed off to many players.

    That's the thing. It's totally okay that top tier crafting is super rare etc., but growing potatoes should be available to everyone
  • ChocometeorChocometeor Member, Alpha Two
    Bidding is just ALWAYS a horrible experience even if you are one of the Players that has enough gold and support from the Guild.

    I think having a Open World Housing system HAS to be very limited because of the playable area it takes from the Game. if very third Person could get a Freehold you would stumble over a Freehold on every corner so thats just understandable.

    BUT bidding ? someone here every bid on a MMo House ? thats just standing on a ''Vendor or at the Area where you have to click'' for HOURS. so every Person that has enough Money will just stand there till its sold. i've made an experience with this once and we stood there and bid on a Building from Monday evening through the WHOLE night (FF14 housing system). it was just an awful experience.
    uwu
  • MarcetMarcet Member
    If a group of people work together to achieve a goal, they will reach it before you, there's nothing unfair in that. It's egoistical for you to think that you deserve the same as many people working together.
  • GarrtokGarrtok Member, Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    Marcet wrote: »
    If a group of people work together to achieve a goal, they will reach it before you, there's nothing unfair in that. It's egoistical for you to think that you deserve the same as many people working together.

    But it's a game and it's not like it's impossible to find a solution that doesn't lock out people from basic harvesting etc.


    Where do people see the benefits of bidding? I don't see any, except "my guild will be so special"
  • FantmxFantmx Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Depraved wrote: »
    Fantmx wrote: »
    Liniker wrote: »
    whoever thought casual players would be playing their farmville fantasy being a Master farmer/breeder just don't understand the game.

    If you lose the casual Farmville fantasy players this game will be a shadow of what it could be.

    I've never understood why this is so hard to understand.

    I'm a lifetime sub, so dedicated to this game I've been doing a regular show since 2016. The entire time (look our past interviews with Steven) I've only wanted a freehold to farm. That is my role here and a role that is being intentionally created by the development team. My life will simply not allow me to be a hardcore player. So the reality of the current situation is if I am never able to own a freehold and do things I have planned to, and been told all along I could, do I will probably end up living in Pax Dei.

    Obviously this will be tested. But you now have a lot of players again considering what their future will actually be in Ashes.

    ok lets break that down. you are a casual player, so maybe you play a couple of hours a day. and I'm a hardcore player and play 10+ hours a day.

    chances are it will take you months to level up your professions and get everything you need to start crafting the gear that everyone will want to buy. on the other hand, I can get there much, much faster than you, contribute to the economy, my guild, etc. on top of that, even if you get there, how much output will you produce a day or a week? maybe you will be able to craft one piece of gear a month and ill be crafting 10.

    on top of that, I will be readily available to defend or attack in PVP. there is a node war? im there. castle siege? im there. boss? im there, etc etc.

    lets imagine for a min that every freehold is owned by casuals who only play a few hours a week. since gearing up is locked behind refining, and refining is locked behind freehold, people will never (or at least not in a reasonable amount of time) will get the gear they want. now they cant clear content, they cant farm the hard places, cant do the raid bosses, etc because their gear acquisition is locked behind the time other players have to contribute to the economy. i would even say that giving freehold to FarmVille casuals is toxic and makes it so that people wont be able to gear up, and those few who manage to gear up, will dominate for a long time.

    so I want to know again how casuals contribute more to the health and longevity of the game?
    if you log in a couple of hours a week to play FarmVille, you're basically playing a solo game at this point. you arent doing anything that contributes to the economy. in fact, it would be more beneficial for the game if you just quit and someone else took your freehold, someone who plays more hours than you and contributes to everything :)


    edit: oh and please don't say something like hey its a mmorpg, its not a sprint, its a marathon, enjoy the game, etc. people enjoy the game in many different ways, and if you want to play 2 hours a week and just farm, that's fine, but if I wanna rush and kill a boss before the next expansion comes out, then that's fine too, that's what some people enjoy.just don't say that super casuals contribute more to the game. all they contribute is 15 a month which can be replaced by another person paying 15 a month and contributing to the game.

    I have been trying to think how best to address this.

    You see a casual player and you see someone who can't contribute to a game world because of the lack of hours they have to play.

    I see a hardcore player and see someone who plays for hours on end because they don't know how to efficiently use their time.

    You assume I will not be able to contribute meaningfully to the world but the reality is I have a very busy life with my career, family and fun and learned at a very young age that efficiency and priority are the king and queen of getting things done. It drives me insane when I work with people who are not as efficient as me.

    So by the time I get to play for my 2 to 4 hours on weekdays and 6 to 8 on weekends, I have already watched youtube and twitch for tips, tricks and tutorials. I have already created my spreadsheets of what and how much I need of x to complete my tasks of y and z. I already know where I need to go to and what to do to accomplish my goals. I find the most efficient route of gameplay to satisfy what I want to do and to contribute to the game world. I have already started this process on paper and in my head with the knowledge that we already have.

    You see a casual and you see a leech without considering that that person is aware of their time restraints and have found ways to work around them. Will you reach your goals faster than I will reach mine? Sure, if you are spending 10 hours a day in Verra, you most definitely will. But don't assume that a casual player has nothing near what you have to offer to the game world.

    <3
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  • Garrtok wrote: »
    Marcet wrote: »
    If a group of people work together to achieve a goal, they will reach it before you, there's nothing unfair in that. It's egoistical for you to think that you deserve the same as many people working together.

    But it's a game and it's not like it's impossible to find a solution that doesn't lock out people from basic harvesting etc.


    Where do people see the benefits of bidding? I don't see any, except "my guild will be so special"

    You are right, it is not impossible. But for some reason Steven wants something else.
    The advantages of this solution is that he can keep the map where NPC related events happen to be free of player structures.
    Maybe there are other reasons too.
  • GarrtokGarrtok Member, Alpha Two
    Raven016 wrote: »
    Garrtok wrote: »
    Marcet wrote: »
    If a group of people work together to achieve a goal, they will reach it before you, there's nothing unfair in that. It's egoistical for you to think that you deserve the same as many people working together.

    But it's a game and it's not like it's impossible to find a solution that doesn't lock out people from basic harvesting etc.


    Where do people see the benefits of bidding? I don't see any, except "my guild will be so special"

    You are right, it is not impossible. But for some reason Steven wants something else.
    The advantages of this solution is that he can keep the map where NPC related events happen to be free of player structures.
    Maybe there are other reasons too.

    Please don't mix stuff. It's not about limiting the freeholds, it's about the system to get the freeholds.
  • Garrtok wrote: »
    Raven016 wrote: »
    Garrtok wrote: »
    Marcet wrote: »
    If a group of people work together to achieve a goal, they will reach it before you, there's nothing unfair in that. It's egoistical for you to think that you deserve the same as many people working together.

    But it's a game and it's not like it's impossible to find a solution that doesn't lock out people from basic harvesting etc.


    Where do people see the benefits of bidding? I don't see any, except "my guild will be so special"

    You are right, it is not impossible. But for some reason Steven wants something else.
    The advantages of this solution is that he can keep the map where NPC related events happen to be free of player structures.
    Maybe there are other reasons too.

    Please don't mix stuff. It's not about limiting the freeholds, it's about the system to get the freeholds.

    To me is obvious that if the number is limited, it has to go to those who can put more energy into obtaining them rather than a lottery or a queue.
    In another mmo, these structures would be instances and would be available just as you left them 5 years later if you take a break from the game. And everybody would be able to have one, more or less equipped, depending on how much they play or pay.
  • iccericcer Member
    NiKr wrote: »
    And how exactly would you be able to outpace guild-based 16h players while you're solo? They'll be leveling faster than you and farming money faster (let alone the pooling from their party/guild).

    Have you ever played Archeage? You absolutely didn't have to be a part of a large guild in order to get your own piece of land. Often, you could decide on a spot with your smaller guild, and have plots next to each other.

    In Ashes that won't really be the case, as large guilds will always have the ability to outbid you, meaning you're never guaranteed to own a Freehold, even after investing a lot of hours and effort into being able to get one.
    In Archeage, if there's an empty plot, and you have the blueprint, you just go there and place it. Done. Large guilds don't matter in this case.
    Liniker wrote: »

    Imagine when people find out that there is zero chance they ever getting legendary loot that only the biggest guilds will be competing for... I mean, intrepid never said that, and they can say "there is a chance" but some things don't need to be said, its Obvious based on other games.

    Ashes took inspiration from EVE, Archeage, Lineage 2, yet... we have people in the community that hate all of those games because of PvP but thought it would be a good idea to back AoC

    "Obvious based on other games", yet when I read your replies, it's almost as if you haven't played some of those games. It has nothing to to with Freeholds btw. Freeholds shouldn't act as some "legendary loot" that only "the biggest guilds will be competing for". Because Freeholds offer basic things like farming and animal husbandry, that should be allowed to anyone to partake in.
    Mag7spy wrote: »

    Is the game stopping you from bidding and obtaining the land if one is available? If the answer is no than everyone has a chance to get it.

    It is stopping me, because the system favors large groups with tons of money, who will easily outbid you. If you can't win a bid, you won't get the freehold, simple as that.
    Again, using Archeage as an example, nobody's stopping you from going out and placing your farm on a free spot. Where as in Ashes, there's an additional layer in between, where even if there is an empty spot, you can't just go there and place your Freehold, but you have to go through an NPC/random menu to bid for it against other players.


    //

    There are a few possible ideas on how to solve this.
    -Make farming, animal husbandry, etc. not be a part of Freeholds, so that all players could use those systems if they wish to. But then you'd have to make Freeholds even more scarce, so it would be one per guild (of about 20-30 players). And the other housing that allows for farming, etc. should work like in Archeage, and cover the majority of land that's available for open-world housing. Essentially, this would mean you have yet another open-world housing system, where Freeholds are really valuable to have (setting up businesses, top tier processing/crafting stations, etc.), and the other system is just for those who want to farm stuff and own a piece of land out there in the world.

    -Make Freeholds of various sizes - small, medium, large. In theory this would allow for more people to own one. You'd expect large groups to control the larger Freeholds, but it would still allow for more regular players to own at least something, and have their own plot of land for farming, animal husbandry, etc.

    -Make Freeholds less of an incentive for players to get. Tied to my 1st point, if you just remove some exclusivity from them, not everyone would then wish to get one.
  • CatmonkeyCatmonkey Member, Alpha Two
    I don't see why there can't be open world freeholds and instanced freeholds. The open world ones would have the prestige of being visible to players, and they could have some other perk perhaps.

    Instanced freeholds could be readily available (for a cost if necessary), and unlock all the different gameplay benefits, but maybe have some handicap such is it taking 5% longer to grow crops, slightly more expensive to hire help, not being visitable by other players etc.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Catmonkey wrote: »
    OK, but where will I plant my potatoes? It seems to me growing food is something that's going to be closed off to many players.
    As has been pointed out in multiple threads now. You can do low tier processing in the node. I got no clue how Steven's planning on achieving that (maybe instances?), but he said so.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    iccer wrote: »
    Have you ever played Archeage? You absolutely didn't have to be a part of a large guild in order to get your own piece of land. Often, you could decide on a spot with your smaller guild, and have plots next to each other.

    In Ashes that won't really be the case, as large guilds will always have the ability to outbid you, meaning you're never guaranteed to own a Freehold, even after investing a lot of hours and effort into being able to get one.
    In Archeage, if there's an empty plot, and you have the blueprint, you just go there and place it. Done. Large guilds don't matter in this case.
    I haven't played it, but you know who have? Steven. And you know what he did? Change that system. So his current vision is to not have it like AA.

    Now, Steven's vision is quite wobbly at his age, so there's a pretty high chance that it'll change preeeetty soon here. Just as it has on the topic of selling freeholds before (twice already btw). I personally don't care about this particular change in the system, so I'm not yet a frog being slowly cooked, but the overall wobbliness of the vision definitely puts some things in perspective.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Catmonkey wrote: »
    I don't see why there can't be open world freeholds and instanced freeholds. The open world ones would have the prestige of being visible to players, and they could have some other perk perhaps.

    Instanced freeholds could be readily available (for a cost if necessary), and unlock all the different gameplay benefits, but maybe have some handicap such is it taking 5% longer to grow crops, slightly more expensive to hire help, not being visitable by other players etc.
    It could be linked to their internal plans for the economy. Freeholds will have taxes, will have businesses, will have node points going towards the node. All of those things have to be balanced in a fairly precise matter to work with all the other systems. I'm assuming that currently their balance shows that non-instanced big freeholds is the way to go.
  • FantmxFantmx Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    iccer wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »

    Is the game stopping you from bidding and obtaining the land if one is available? If the answer is no than everyone has a chance to get it.

    It is stopping me, because the system favors large groups with tons of money, who will easily outbid you. If you can't win a bid, you won't get the freehold, simple as that.
    Again, using Archeage as an example, nobody's stopping you from going out and placing your farm on a free spot. Where as in Ashes, there's an additional layer in between, where even if there is an empty spot, you can't just go there and place your Freehold, but you have to go through an NPC/random menu to bid for it against other players.

    I want to chime in here. I hear a similar argument in medicine all of the time. "Everyone has access to healthcare." Sure, theoretically everyone has access to to healthcare. But there sure are a lot of people who can't afford it or physically get to it. To them having "access" means nothing.
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  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Fantmx wrote: »
    I want to chime in here. I hear a similar argument in medicine all of the time. "Everyone has access to healthcare." Sure, theoretically everyone has access to to healthcare. But there sure are a lot of people who can't afford it or physically get to it. To them having "access" means nothing.
    And this is exactly the lens through which I've been seeing all Steven's comments of "anyone can get a freehold". This is exactly why it was super obvious to me that freeholds would be purely a guild (or at the very least a party) thing. Because I don't think Steven ever said "everyone on the server will have a freehold all at the same time".
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    false. i have joined top guilds in every game I've played where I didn't play from the start. such guilds always welcome new players after they have been in the game for months.
    In my experience, this simply does not happen in games with membership limits on guilds. Especially true of games where the guild limit is tied directly to in game perks - the more players in your guild the fewer perks.

    I fully believe you if you were talking about a game like ESO, however.

    we have different experiences then
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Raven016 wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    Garrtok wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    Aniion wrote: »
    A PvX drop that has a very small chance of dropping from any mob farming, gathering, processing, or crafting action in that node once you hit level 50. How exactly will that be "dominated" by guilds? It doesn't matter that a coordinated guild might have 500+ people trying to do it. It's just a numbers game that increases their chances. I would much rather have that than the "strategic, dedicated effort" of just going to your guild and saying "okay another bid is up, everyone send me 2k gold and I'll outbid everyon else". Very strategic Steven. I'm sure no one could possibly beat that strategy.
    Am I understanding this correctly? You solution for the bidding problem is a lottery across literally any and all activity in the game? I mean, that would definitely be fun for me, because the last time I tried supporting smth rng based, there were like around a hundred people saying that my rng preferences were shit :D

    Also, we'll need to do a quest to even get the ability to make a bid. What if that quest has the exact thing you're talking about? And what if the bid timer runs out before anyone else can finish the quest too?

    Can also be special mobs in a story arc, or in an personal instanced area. Everything is better than a bidding system

    large guilds will still have an advantage

    Which is a good thing. Else the game would have to create artificial rules to prevent players who cooperate to have an advantage.

    yeah I wasn't complaining about it. if you can get the players, organize them, etc, and you get an advantage, more power to you. what I'm just saying is that any method for acquiring a fh will benefit a large guild more than a solo player, since people were complaining that bidding benefits large guilds
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    To be honest? I hate crafting. I can deal with, and even enjoy, gathering but crafting, especially the kind that requires me "pouring water on the furnace", is just not my gameplay. I am the type of person that could spend my entire career living in inns without bating an eye.

    Hence, I am in desperate need of life skillers, crafters, farmers etc. My primary concern is that those people will simply leave the game very early on if their endgame requires them to be hardcore, super competitive players in other areas.

    I mean.... What good does it do for the game to tell the farmers that they cannot farm unless they belong to the elite guilds? Or the the crafters that they cannot do endgame crafting without a freehold.

    I think having the best efficiency (through equipment and npc help) and biggest production reserved for free holds is more than fair - but I don't see why a non freeholder-owner shouldn't be able to craft the best stuff - even if it might take them more than ten times the time that a invested freehold-owner needs ....

    I really hope that the node houses and the apartments will offer enough for the life skillers. Without them, I am probably not going to get far. ._.

    well pvpers had to craft all their stuff in l2, and that was a fairly hardcore pvp oriented game. pvpers will craft too if there are no crafters.
  • AlmostDeadAlmostDead Member, Alpha Two
    I am mostly good with the current design, and that's coming from someone who realistically won't be able to achieve a freehold. Life is about choices, how we choose to allocate our time and life force. Hard work + dedication should have payoff. Everyone does not get an award.

    I could also support adding some alternate paths to acquire a freehold that would make it possible for more solo and/or casual types to accomplish. Maybe have 50-75% of the parcels auctioned by the node, then 25-50% have an alternate method. Maybe an exploration discovery, ultra rare drop, divine gift (achievable), or whatever.

    But regardless of the method, people who play less should/would have less chance to acquire one. That's life.

    Also, the fact that freeholds are tradeable means that there are many paths to obtain a freehold. Anything you can achieve that can be sold can be used to purchase a freehold. For example, you can sell your ultra-rare dragon egg drop to buy a free-hold.

    Overall I really like the fact that not just anyone can achieve a freehold. Just like flying mounts and legendary gear. That makes the game awesome. Freeholds will be something to aspire to, gawk at, be proud of, differentiate oneself, etc.

    Please Intrepid & @StevenSharif do not make freeholds something that literally every single player on the server can have. That would be a horrible move. There would be nothing special about having one. So many unattended freeholds littering the world with an owner who hasn't logged on in 2 months. Just ugly clutter.

    Steve and Intrepid have made a decision that freeholds should require a lot of time, dedication and hard work to acquire, and that it's not something that 100% of the players will have. Many people here just need to deal with that. Maybe it will change in the future, but I wouldn't bet on it.

    Also, for all of the RPG people out there, and the people who want immersion, think about this. In real life not everyone will achieve a 1.5 acre property with multiple buildings. That's the way it works. That's what makes it fun.

    FFS.

    Game looks awesome.
  • SweatycupSweatycup Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    prepare for guild real estate conglomerates to own everything...
  • Morg7x7Morg7x7 Member, Alpha Two
    Sweatycup wrote: »
    prepare for guild real estate conglomerates to own everything...

    I think you mean AI bot farm conglomerates.

    The big guilds may still get the pokemon farms but they will have to buy them from china.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    @iccer We don't even know how the bidding will work, unless i missed him in the stream saying groups of people will work together to outbid others. This seems to me like a narrative people are coming up with. If bidding can be done so groups of people can infinitely bid any amount of gold with a cap, than I'd say it is out of range for casual players for sure.

    Guilds, groups, and people that are professionals in working the market will be a step above others.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    It won't be as dire as you think. The first ones to 50 will bid against each other. Perhaps guilds will get involved, perhaps not but the pool will be smaller at first and grow larger. I actually think I could get a freehold if I wanted. It would be nice to have alt access to the freeholds like my original plan.
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  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    It won't be as dire as you think. The first ones to 50 will bid against each other. Perhaps guilds will get involved, perhaps not but the pool will be smaller at first and grow larger. I actually think I could get a freehold if I wanted. It would be nice to have alt access to the freeholds like my original plan.
    All that would need to happen is for guilds to outpace the 90% of players by the auction timer. If auction goes on for a week - the guilds will need to have at least a few people that are lvl50 and ahead of all the others by a week of lvling (which is super easy to do for a hardcore guild).

    And they'd need only that because they'd be able to bid the lowest amount on each freehold, because there'd be no competition. So unless the auction goes on for damn months - the current system is "first come first serve".
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I've thought about that. You could just body block the auctioneer with your own guild due to collision. Freeholds would be cheap this way. Also, you'd have gold reserves available if you needed more clout. However, I think it will be easy for a solo player to bid too because you could hopefully place bids on a lot of freeholds too and unless all 900 players of an alliance are level 50 at the same time you could get hold of a random freehold. You don't really need the best location unless you want to farm i imagine.
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  • AniionAniion Member, Alpha Two
    Depraved wrote: »

    well, people still need to farm that gold. we don't know how easy or hard it is yet and we don't know how much gold you need a day to survive or get by...buy consumables etc. also, because of pareto distribution, not all players in the guild will make much money. there will be a few players in any given guild making most of the money, and its entirely possible that a solo player, or a family, can make more money than guilds that arent super big. also, fh slots will be readily available competing with other locations. its no like one location is open at a time and everybody is forced to bid on that one only. also, you have to consider that not everybody in the guild will give money, or wont be online to do so.

    also, if you make it a pve drop, dont you think larger guilds will still have an advantage? they can go to the farming spot where the item drops and close the map, now no one has access to the items...

    and even if the item dropped from any monster, big guilds will get more of it faster and can power level their guildies. so even if you are a solo player and get the item at a low level, nothing guarantees that you will get a fh by the time you hit 50.

    any method of obtaining the fh will benefit larger guilds anyways. also consider than a guild cant bid on every freehold at the same time

    1. It's entirely possible that an individual, alone, can make more money than any 2 or 3 or even 10 people. As that number gets larger, it becomes less and less likely, approaching near impossible for any individual to generate more gold than a group of 50-300 people (minus insanely lucky drops, or gold-generation farms like a Grandmaster-level processing station

    2. There is a massive incentive to donate money to the guild in order to secure Freeholds already. Just by the sheer fact that other guilds will be doing the same thing, it will become a requirement for guilds to also attempt this, and a requirement for players who want access to a FH to participate. And the "won't be online" is irrelevant because it can be a donation when you join, a weekly donation, etc. It makes little sense to do it on an "as needed basis".

    3. Yes, a PVE drop will result in larger guilds having an advantage over an individual player. But that advantage doesn't make others chances next to 0. An individual still has the same probability regardless. Also, I'm not speaking about a single farming spot. Nor a single action. All PVE actions within that node where the plot is available. Whether it's cutting down a T1 Tree, farming a level 15 mob, or crafting a level 25 weapon. As long as you reach level 50, and do the quest, every day actions done in that node have a chance to produce the drop. Impossible to be gatekept, and inefficient to be "farmed". Doesn't disturb the normal gameplay loop of other players either.

    4. It won't be a "get 1000 of this drop" item, so it won't be powerfarmed. Sure, players can dedicate hours and hours to cutting down T1 trees, but that's fine. All that will do is show actual "dedication, effort, and time" to getting a FH. Which is the goal. Getting 300 people to each send you 100 gold doesn't show any of that.

    5. A guild can DEFINITELY bid on every FH at the same time. What's stopping them? They may not win every bid, but as long as you have enough gold, you can get as many FH as possible.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    Fantmx wrote: »

    I want to chime in here. I hear a similar argument in medicine all of the time. "Everyone has access to healthcare." Sure, theoretically everyone has access to to healthcare. But there sure are a lot of people who can't afford it or physically get to it. To them having "access" means nothing.

    Fair analogy. I’m with @NiKr though, I’ve always read Steven’s statements on potential as just that not any kind of guarantee.

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  • PherPhurPherPhur Member
    edited July 2023
    Garrtok wrote: »
    Hi,

    in my opinion bidding is and will be a horrible way to handle things.

    It's an easy solution, and I get that Steven thinks "wouldn't it be cool if you can bid and trade these things etc.".

    But it's a game, an MMO and you have to think about the implications.
    Even in nodes etc. it's already clear that in most cases they will be ruled by large guilds. Also open pvp dungeons, fortresses etc.

    Now we will have another aspect of the game that is highly locked for non super hardcore players. They (the guilds) will just collect money from their members and will win every single auction in a node and potentially sell these things.

    And especially since the highest crafting tiers are locked behind freeholds, they will even get richer over time, because these guilds have the monopoly on top tier crafting.

    I know that a node cannot be owned by a guild, but of course a guild can place their leader as a major. Instead of locking out other node citizens by keeping top tier crafting in freeholds, the big groups should contribute to the node itself and make the node special, good for other players and a desirable place. Top tier crafting should be shifted to node cities again!


    New players will never ever have a chance to get access to such freeholds if the mechanic is handled this way.
    Honestly I am thinking how intrepid can seriously think, that this is the way to go, i can barely think of a worse way to handle it.

    It's okay that it's a big achievement, and you have to do something, but just putting a big price label on it feels so cheap.

    What alternatives do we have?
    • A fixed price - first come first serve
    • drop in pvx
    • a questchain
    • a certain contribution to the "node XP" in general

    I really hope that they will change this system.

    I'll give you one of the best alternatives I can think of, one that pleases a few different types of players. Have initial acquisition of freeholds be identical to the mayoral system. Combat tournament for the military nodes, faith based questing speedrun for the religious nodes, elections for the scientific nodes and even bidding for the economic nodes to please the only people who will obtain them, RMT'ers.

    The original system, bidding was suppose to encourage teamwork by making guilds work together to own housing, which is awesome, but RMT will exist and it will trump guilds.

    Some of those methods of the mayoral system still encourage banding and working together though like the elections, bidding(in theory lol), the speedrunning, but not the combat tournament.

    After that the owners can buy or trade or gamble or abandon or demolish their freeholds, whatever they want.
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  • Noaani wrote: »
    Biddding on freeholds is PvP! won by RMT

    Fixed that for you.
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  • PherPhurPherPhur Member
    edited July 2023
    Liniker wrote: »
    Garrtok wrote: »
    Why? How?

    The argument for P2W is also one of the worst an most ridiculous arguments I've been reading, because we will have LEGENDARY UNIQUE items that only 1 per server exist on an open economy with free trading.

    How is RMT around freeholds an "issue" but not RMT around literal gear = Power lol people are just trying to find random reasons to complain.

    No one is complaining about all the cold case murders not solved, how is second degree assault an issue hahahahahha.

    What kind of satellite on the side of the trailer, denture losing, dog food chomping, totinos in the oven yee-yee-haw logic is that dude?

    They're both a problem ffs. Freeholds are a larger issue because they're limited in quantity, hold grandmaster crafting benches, and people want them more than anything else(seems like the benches aren't even a big driving factor in this). People just want a friggin house, a little land, do some farming, have some animals, and do it in AoC, like really.. really bad. And feel at a big disadvantage to RMT with them. Can you blame them?

    And freeholds with the exclusive benches are much more lucrative, people be lucky if the gold farmers don't just monopolize them all by themselves.

    It's a somewhat easy fix, cause the solution is better than bidding alone, and more fun. Imitate the mayoral system, combat tournaments for military nodes, elections for scientific, bidding for economic, speedrun quests for religious nodes.

    Besides, that pleases more types of players anyways.


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