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Why should I fight for my node?

245

Comments

  • Neurath wrote: »
    pgt1027 wrote: »
    So, the answer is that you fight for your node because that's where your home and all your stuff is.

    What stuff are you referring to? There are central banks in each node. I would store armour for the various local dungeons in the local banks. No point carting stuff across the entire map. The rest of the 'stuff' isn't really too serious, perhaps furniture for a home I don't own or perhaps resources which will be sold immediately or stored in local banks for repairs later on. I don't see the rest of the 'stuff' you refer to.

    I'm saying you wouldn't become a citizen of a node you can't get housing in. So you would have either a house, apartment or freehold in the node you became a citizen in. You fight for your node because if your node is destroyed, your house, apartment or freehold will be destroyed with it. There are a few other benefits to becoming a citizen of a node beyond housing, but access to housing seems to be by far the most compelling reason to become a citizen and that's what you're fighting for when you defend your node.
  • BlackBrony wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    Apartments will still be a thing. Housing will potentially bring several benefits of its own and changing houses every time your node gets destroyed would be very costly for casual players.

    In other words - it's convenience. You want your game to be as easy-going as possible? Defend your node.

    Let me rephrase my question. Would you be willing to lose 1000 dollars if that means you might get 1 million? I see "defending my node" as that. If I only have a instanced house, what am I really losing? Is this convenience you talk about THAT important compared to the chance of belonging to that 15% of players who own a static house or freehold?

    Are static houses actually superior to apartments beyond the "cool factor" of having your housing be a part of the open world?
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    pgt1027 wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    pgt1027 wrote: »
    So, the answer is that you fight for your node because that's where your home and all your stuff is.

    What stuff are you referring to? There are central banks in each node. I would store armour for the various local dungeons in the local banks. No point carting stuff across the entire map. The rest of the 'stuff' isn't really too serious, perhaps furniture for a home I don't own or perhaps resources which will be sold immediately or stored in local banks for repairs later on. I don't see the rest of the 'stuff' you refer to.

    I'm saying you wouldn't become a citizen of a node you can't get housing in. So you would have either a house, apartment or freehold in the node you became a citizen in. You fight for your node because if your node is destroyed, your house, apartment or freehold will be destroyed with it. There are a few other benefits to becoming a citizen of a node beyond housing, but access to housing seems to be by far the most compelling reason to become a citizen and that's what you're fighting for when you defend your node.

    I've come from MMOs without housing systems as well as MMOs with housing systems. I just don't see the appeal of a house. A freehold I mulled over because my Alt would be a Processer but that wasn't for the home aspect, it was a business choice. I don't see homes/housing as an integral part of an MMO experience. If I want to build a home I'll play The Sims. If we go corrupted we can't access a lot of stuff anyway so I guess I'd be a roamer like a corrupted player with the freedom to go corrupted if required.
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  • BlackBronyBlackBrony Member, Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    If you have the money for it and you know FOR SURE that you have more than any given guild within a reasonable radius of the node - yeah, it'd be better to try and buy it after the node gets destroyed. But if you have access to that kind of money - why da hell are you not on a freehold already?
    Well, you might be able to acquire an instanced house at cheaper price, since that is tied to the number of citizens the node has.
    Also when a node is destroyed it goes back to zero. Maybe it won't be "hot property" anymore, because it requires lots of work before the node grows and provides benefits. Maybe prices will go down after destruction. It's not the same to buy a house in a node 4 than on a node 1.

  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    Well, you might be able to acquire an instanced house at cheaper price, since that is tied to the number of citizens the node has.
    Also when a node is destroyed it goes back to zero. Maybe it won't be "hot property" anymore, because it requires lots of work before the node grows and provides benefits. Maybe prices will go down after destruction. It's not the same to buy a house in a node 4 than on a node 1.
    It is for a freehold though. Freehold is a freehold and for any guild that's gonna be an investment. If anything, there's a high chance that guilds will siege the nodes where they haven't bought up all the freeholds just to do exactly that.
  • Neurath wrote: »
    pgt1027 wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    pgt1027 wrote: »
    So, the answer is that you fight for your node because that's where your home and all your stuff is.

    What stuff are you referring to? There are central banks in each node. I would store armour for the various local dungeons in the local banks. No point carting stuff across the entire map. The rest of the 'stuff' isn't really too serious, perhaps furniture for a home I don't own or perhaps resources which will be sold immediately or stored in local banks for repairs later on. I don't see the rest of the 'stuff' you refer to.

    I'm saying you wouldn't become a citizen of a node you can't get housing in. So you would have either a house, apartment or freehold in the node you became a citizen in. You fight for your node because if your node is destroyed, your house, apartment or freehold will be destroyed with it. There are a few other benefits to becoming a citizen of a node beyond housing, but access to housing seems to be by far the most compelling reason to become a citizen and that's what you're fighting for when you defend your node.

    I've come from MMOs without housing systems as well as MMOs with housing systems. I just don't see the appeal of a house. A freehold I mulled over because my Alt would be a Processer but that wasn't for the home aspect, it was a business choice. I don't see homes/housing as an integral part of an MMO experience. If I want to build a home I'll play The Sims. If we go corrupted we can't access a lot of stuff anyway so I guess I'd be a roamer like a corrupted player with the freedom to go corrupted if required.

    I don't disagree with this view. A lot of MMORPGs are based on heroic fantasy, and I'd argue that the true home of heroic fantasy adventurers is the local tavern. I think the idea of just letting players be wandering adventurers is something the game should support.

    That said, it looks like the housing is going to come with a few pretty major benefits, such as the furniture giving you various buffs or utility, your bed giving you some kind of rested experience/buff for free and I assume certain higher level crafting benches. At least, if we assume that the stuff that was inside the freehold houses will also be available inside static houses and apartments. It's also worth noting that being a citizen of a node will also give you access to certain higher level crafting benches whether you own a house or not, so while not really a reason to defend your node, it's a reason to become a citizen, at least if you're going to go deep into the crafting profession system.
  • BlackBronyBlackBrony Member, Alpha Two
    pgt1027 wrote: »
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    Apartments will still be a thing. Housing will potentially bring several benefits of its own and changing houses every time your node gets destroyed would be very costly for casual players.

    In other words - it's convenience. You want your game to be as easy-going as possible? Defend your node.

    Let me rephrase my question. Would you be willing to lose 1000 dollars if that means you might get 1 million? I see "defending my node" as that. If I only have a instanced house, what am I really losing? Is this convenience you talk about THAT important compared to the chance of belonging to that 15% of players who own a static house or freehold?

    Are static houses actually superior to apartments beyond the "cool factor" of having your housing be a part of the open world?

    Power, exclusivity, access to a select few group. Plus if you own a house you could trade or get enough gold for a Freehold.
    The wiki says "Apartments are internal only (instanced) spaces within a node that offer some housing functionality.[4] "
    Not sure if there's a difference though
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    No one has said you have to be a citizen to join a family to my knowledge. You can just join forces with someone who is a citizen and get a freehold. There really are work around for a lot of issues right now. The game is leakier than a sive.
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  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Technical point: If a node is sieged and loses, it goes to level 0. Since a node must be level 3 to have freeholds, there will be no freeholds to purchase after the siege, or for quite a while until the node regains level 3.

    What will probably happen is that other nodes, adjacent to the one destroyed in the siege, will now be able to grow larger. If the 'next node over' is level 2, it may grow to level 3 and soon sell freeholds.
  • NiKr wrote: »
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    Well, you might be able to acquire an instanced house at cheaper price, since that is tied to the number of citizens the node has.
    Also when a node is destroyed it goes back to zero. Maybe it won't be "hot property" anymore, because it requires lots of work before the node grows and provides benefits. Maybe prices will go down after destruction. It's not the same to buy a house in a node 4 than on a node 1.
    It is for a freehold though. Freehold is a freehold and for any guild that's gonna be an investment. If anything, there's a high chance that guilds will siege the nodes where they haven't bought up all the freeholds just to do exactly that.

    They're limiting the number of freeholds a player can own to 1 per account. If a guild has a hundred active members, they'll only ever be able to secure a hundred freeholds. That said, I don't know how big guilds are going to be.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    tautau wrote: »
    Technical point: If a node is sieged and loses, it goes to level 0. Since a node must be level 3 to have freeholds, there will be no freeholds to purchase after the siege, or for quite a while until the node regains level 3.

    What will probably happen is that other nodes, adjacent to the one destroyed in the siege, will now be able to grow larger. If the 'next node over' is level 2, it may grow to level 3 and soon sell freeholds.

    Wouldn't that wipe all housing now?
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  • Neurath wrote: »
    No one has said you have to be a citizen to join a family to my knowledge. You can just join forces with someone who is a citizen and get a freehold. There really are work around for a lot of issues right now. The game is leakier than a sive.
    The game isn't even in its beta phase yet, and there's a pretty easy solution to that. Just limit freehold functionality to citizens regardless of the family function.
  • BlackBronyBlackBrony Member, Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    tautau wrote: »
    Technical point: If a node is sieged and loses, it goes to level 0. Since a node must be level 3 to have freeholds, there will be no freeholds to purchase after the siege, or for quite a while until the node regains level 3.

    What will probably happen is that other nodes, adjacent to the one destroyed in the siege, will now be able to grow larger. If the 'next node over' is level 2, it may grow to level 3 and soon sell freeholds.

    Wouldn't that wipe all housing now?

    It does. All houses are gone and you no longer citizen. I mean, that's good, it gives time for new players. Maybe some will move and renounce citizenship in other nodes for a chance of a larger static house
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    pgt1027 wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    No one has said you have to be a citizen to join a family to my knowledge. You can just join forces with someone who is a citizen and get a freehold. There really are work around for a lot of issues right now. The game is leakier than a sive.
    The game isn't even in its beta phase yet, and there's a pretty easy solution to that. Just limit freehold functionality to citizens regardless of the family function.

    Not sure that will be welcomed. Guild association will be important in family's. I really don't want to share my family with random citizens.
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  • Neurath wrote: »
    pgt1027 wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    No one has said you have to be a citizen to join a family to my knowledge. You can just join forces with someone who is a citizen and get a freehold. There really are work around for a lot of issues right now. The game is leakier than a sive.
    The game isn't even in its beta phase yet, and there's a pretty easy solution to that. Just limit freehold functionality to citizens regardless of the family function.

    Not sure that will be welcomed. Guild association will be important in family's. I really don't want to share my family with random citizens.

    Even if it makes the family system weird, it's more important to avoid what is essentially an exploit. Your family will probably need to be citizens of your node to get access to your freehold.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    It isn't an exploit. Right now only one person owns the freehold (the citizen). Even if you all pay to buy the freehold you only get permissions on it. Steven said you can sell spots in a family - again, no restrictions on who you sell it to. Just because you don't like the work around doesn't make the work around an exploit.
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  • Neurath wrote: »
    It isn't an exploit. Right now only one person owns the freehold (the citizen). Even if you all pay to buy the freehold you only get permissions on it. Steven said you can sell spots in a family - again, no restrictions on who you sell it to. Just because you don't like the work around doesn't make the work around an exploit.

    I would consider being able to effectively own a freehold of a node you're not a citizen of by using the family system to be an exploit. You're getting the premier benefit of node citizenship without having to pay taxes to the node.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    You don't own the freehold though. I just explained that. Family's can have access to inn room, apartment, mansion and freehold if you grant the permissions...
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  • Neurath wrote: »
    You don't own the freehold though. I just explained that. Family's can have access to inn room, apartment, mansion and freehold if you grant the permissions...

    So what does the freehold owner have exclusive rights to that his or her family doesn't?
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The freehold owner can use alts on the freehold without the alt needing to be in the family as of right now. Could change though.
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  • Neurath wrote: »
    The freehold owner can use alts on the freehold without the alt needing to be in the family as of right now. Could change though.

    Which sounds like the family gets full access to the freehold without having to pay taxes to the node, unless there's some aspect of the freehold that ONLY the actual owner can use.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The whole freehold pays the taxes. Its up to arrangements with the freehold owner on who pays what tax. I never came up with the system and I don't like the system. However, if you think citizens of other nodes want to pay two lots of taxes to two different nodes you'd be wrong.
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  • Neurath wrote: »
    The whole freehold pays the taxes. Its up to arrangements with the freehold owner on who pays what tax. I never came up with the system and I don't like the system. However, if you think citizens of other nodes want to pay two lots of taxes to two different nodes you'd be wrong.

    You can only be a citizen of one node at a time. I'm saying they should be citizens of the freehold's node.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    Right now you can have 8 freeholds (9 if you're married) all across Verra. Each person would have to own 1 and the rest get permissions. You can make a fortune just by being a life skiller. You don't even have to pvp, you just move to a different freehold and replace lost freeholds.

    I'm not sure why farmers are balking. 9 farms would make everyone rich as creases.
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  • BlackBronyBlackBrony Member, Alpha Two
    pgt1027 wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    The freehold owner can use alts on the freehold without the alt needing to be in the family as of right now. Could change though.

    Which sounds like the family gets full access to the freehold without having to pay taxes to the node, unless there's some aspect of the freehold that ONLY the actual owner can use.

    Renting a property is not being the owner. Renters don't pay property taxes.
  • KingDDDKingDDD Member, Alpha Two
    All this BS about needing motivation to play a game is hilarious. You'll want to defend your node because it's fun.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I actually believe I will join a farming family and do the 8 or 9 freeholds plan for farms. I don't have a massive idea right now, just the general concept. I would aim for guild affiliations over node affiliations though. I would expect my family not to defend any node but to milk the profits and replace lost nodes.
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    @Neurath
    I've not watched the stream (dont have the time), but I want to check my understanding is correct.

    Players bid on essentially the rights to place a freehold somewhere on a very large piece of land. Once they have the rights to do so, they can place their freehold where ever they like within that very large piece of land.

    Acquiring this land is an auction at first, but once owned by a player can be sold either directly, or via an auction.

    Is this basically correct?
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    @Neurath
    I've not watched the stream (dont have the time), but I want to check my understanding is correct.

    Players bid on essentially the rights to place a freehold somewhere on a very large piece of land. Once they have the rights to do so, they can place their freehold where ever they like within that very large piece of land.

    Acquiring this land is an auction at first, but once owned by a player can be sold either directly, or via an auction.

    Is this basically correct?

    Nikr said the first sale is auction. Second sale onwards can be direct sale or auction. You must be level 50 and complete a quest to bid. I think you can place the freehold on any plot within the plot but you can't overlap two plots half and half. You'd be better getting freeholds in different places if you want more than one due to the losses incurred after a successful siege.
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  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    Is this basically correct?
    Yeah, pretty much correct.
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