Greetings, glorious testers!
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
The reason to fight is to claim the spot which give the best xp, which will lead you to more levels, more skills, better gear.
Fighting as a bounty hunter to kill corrupted players because you believe they are evil.
You still get their loot... maybe even an item. I think the "greed" (direct gains) part started when that player wanted to become a bounty hunter.
To illustrate: I believe Dygz is a good person and he would fight evil where ever he encountered it for the betterment of all, particularly if that evil was a car salesman (not a real) game developer. He will not, however, seek out corrupted players or become a bounty hunter.
But, ok. I agree.
This is sort of like discussing altruism. Very few acts are truly altruistic, some benefit is inferred. I think it is the same thing there.. there is always going to be a benefit, loot is just the easiest way to think of it.
Correct me if I'm getting you wrong. You've always been one to push for long and hard leveling, that going through that had to feel like an accomplishment and not a free ride.
So, one part of your motivation for PvP is feeling you're cutting that time to go through with your efforts, that your actions have a direct impact on the speed of your progress.
True, reputation is also a benefit or something you can lose.
Or the by killing the corrupted players you make your node somewhat more efficient compared to other nodes.
I agree and it is one of the reasons I believe open world harassments and ganking will not be as big of a problem as people currently are worried about. Obviously, i am guessing based upon my own understanding of what i have heard/read/seen, but like many here, I am a voracious consumer of Ashes media.
Your node is going to know you by name. Bad actors will have difficulty finding help, and it is becoming more and more clear we will all need help from others.
I cannot be worried about harassments and ganking until I play Alpha 2, a few months, and see the game being balanced. But without evil you cannot identify the good.
Regarding risk vs reward.
If I am afraid of something, I use the word risk.
If I don't care, I use "chance"
If I don't want something, I cannot be afraid so the "risk vs reward" has no meaning. But chance has.
The risk vs reward to be quantifiable
- there must be ways for me to influence the chance of events and
- my rewards to depend on this chance too
How aren't they linked directly when by venturing into the world to gain rewards, you are risking being killed by both pvp and pve? And PKers are risking corruption/dying for kills and loot from players? As I said before, Risk isn't a guaranteed success or loss. And variance of amount of success or loss is not and does not need to be consistent, nor do the rewards. Sometimes a PKer will succeed with a big haul and escape, sometimes it'll be a small haul for the same effort and consequences, and the same goes for the failed scenarios. Sometimes as a gatherer you'll succeed uninterrupted with a big haul, sometimes the area will be cleared out and you'll have a smaller haul, and this also goes for scenarios where they are interrupted and robbed. At least as far as random player encounters in the open world are concerned.
A roll of the dice is still a risk to gain a reward, and part of the risk is whether or not the reward is very good.
To solve the issue you seem to have, which I believe is not knowing how much of a reward you are earning for a risk, would be to simply add a, resource/wealth/corruption they will cause/corruption they have, score alongside the players gear score when targeted. Then you can assess if another player has an equal reward to give for the risk you will take.
You could argue that "instanced PvP" can have consistent rewards, because they are controlled individual instances of gameplay with specific teams and a clear goal. But they tend to have little more risk than not winning.
Isn't greed a meaningful incentive to people who are greedy? I just feel like "meaningful conflict" is subjective. Open world PVP is meaningful to me, and it has meaningful consequences to myself, and others around me, and even potentially the node I do it in over time. To say a battleground, a siege, or a caravan has more meaning is purely determined by what a players motivations and playstyle are.
I'll participate in all of them, and they'll all have equal meaning to me generally. Where I may prioritize open world pvp excursions to mess with opposing node resources and players and defending my own node above most other PvP.
This kinda ties back to the "no participation trophies" discussion. When there's a limited amount of loot (reward) - if you bring too many people, your reward gets too diluted and would require consequent repetitions of the activity to get to a lvl where everyone can reap what they sowed.
While if your small team of super geared and super skill players can not only beat the pve encounter, but also kill any other player group - all the reward they get will have a much greater ratio of "unit of loot per person".
My memory is shite, so I don't remember if I've asked this before. Did EQ2 give all participants of a raid loot or was there a predetermined amount of items that was quantitively less than the amount of players in the raid?
Yes! You are very close to hitting the nail on the head.
If I'm an Elf Druid, I might need to attack and possibly kill the Dark Elf player syphoning the Dryad's Life energy - not because I love PvP or want some uber loot, but because the loss of Life Energy might awaken the Shadow Demons - who will destroy all life in the region - including the Dark Elves.
If I'm the Dark Elf Rogue, I'm really just focused on the PvE to maximize my Stealth. But, since Stealth is crucial to the success of my Exploration endeavors, I might have to kill the Druid player trying to stop me from syphoning Life magic from the Dryads.
I wouldn't be consciously motivated to PvP for the sake of competition or Risk v Reward. I'm really motivated by Meaningful Conflict.
Having maxed Stealth is meaningful to my Exploration, so I'm gonna do what I need to do to max my Stealth.
Same for the Druid. I would rather use diplomacy to convince the Dark Elf player to cease. But, if they don't, I might have to kill them for the greater good of the region.
None of that is because I crave the adrenaline rush of combat.
Or because fear and competition and winning/losing adds spice to the gameplay.
That's the kind of PvP encounter I would prefer to have.
Rather than - "Oh! Let me see if that player has a bag for carrying the loot I want to steal."
I have none of those priorities as a PvP rogue focused on hunting players. Hence "meaningful conflict" being subjective
🙄
That is Meaningful Conflict.
Or that your PvE goals involve PvP.
If it wasn't a part of the design, open world PvP wouldnt be a thing, just events and instanced PvP. There's literally a system for players to hunt players that hunt other players.
So… that is just a PvP server ruleset for an MMORPG. PvX is meaningless.
And the same applies to people who care about pvp more. They want to be stronger, so they'll have to participate in pve, which might also involve pvp along the way, so the pvpers are definitely winning doubly here.
p.s. I would definitely love some stuff that would be similar to what you described in the game, because I'm sure there'd be other pvp-averse people who might shift their pov on pvp due to that kind of design.
Are you planning on hunting corrupted players? Or just cool with the idea of your character being very corrupted?
Both actually. I plan to have a specific load out for each. Perhaps even separate characters. That way when there's too many corrupted I can hop on my bounty hunter, and if there's to many bounty hunters I'll hop on the corrupted character for a challenge. And having a notorious corrupted character sounds fun
Ok.
Doesn't increasing corruption cause decreasing stats?
I mean, good luck to you I guess... But my understanding is corruption is aiming to prevent exactly that.
It's to prevent griefing, not ganking. Obviously I won't be corrupting myself into oblivion. I'd kill a few, and work it off while fighting bounty hunters, maybe I'll succeed, maybe I won't. And that's just assuming other players don't fight back.
PvP - log in to fight Players
PvX - log in to play a game
Steven shoves the cake down your throat, up your shirt, down your pants, in your shoes, in your hair…
PvE only is Palia, Vampire Survivor
What is AoC?