PvE Players tell me why you follow Ashes of Creation

Doesn't matter if the first time you saw Ashes was in kickstarter, or just learned of the project 2 weeks ago.

As a PvE first player, what makes you look forward to PvE in AoC or what was the defining feature that you're looking forward to?

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PherPhur

Noaani wrote: »

Edit to add; also, if Steven was so thrilled about having a CoD developers on staff, why isn't CoD in the list of games they claim to have worked on?

A CEO fresh into the industry who has funded his own project would probably be stoked to have a dev competent enough to work on CoD work for him, but the public... If it was Activision CoD..

I wouldn't tell a soul, hold tight onto my holy water and just hope he didn't bring the spirit of Activision with him.

Dygz

But... in the Kickstarter video, one of the first things Steven says is that some of the devs worked on Call of Duty. I think the list of games each person worked on is not exhaustive. They probably picked the few that they liked working on most and seemed most relevant to MMORPGs. Like, other MMOs.

I worked on Call of Duty, but it wouldn't be at the top of the list of games I worked on.

Noaani

ChipsAhoy007 wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Edit to add; also, if Steven was so thrilled about having a CoD developers on staff, why isn't CoD in the list of games they claim to have worked on?

A CEO fresh into the industry who has funded his own project would probably be stoked to have a dev competent enough to work on CoD work for him, but the public... If it was Activision CoD..

I wouldn't tell a soul, hold tight onto my holy water and just hope he didn't bring the spirit of Activision with him.

This was back in 2017.

Back then, Activision didn't have the reputation it has now.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

They probably picked the few that they liked working on most and seemed most relevant to MMORPGs. Like, other MMOs.

This may well be true, but if you are cherry picking what essentially amount to a resume for your game development company, you should probably make it as close to the game you are making as possible.

Dygz

No clue why Steven thought to mention COD in the Kickstarter video, but...
Maybe he was trying to imply how ubiquitous he wants PvP combat and PvP conflict to be.

Shabooey

Maybe as it was a kickstarter video trying to get people excited/back the game/trust him, when he's not made a game of his own before you might be more inclined to do that if you know some of the Dev team have worked on big successful games before. Don't think it's got anything to do with the PvP.

Boneshatter

Mentioning CoD would be purely for name recognition. An upstart needs all the traction it can get and most people aren't going to realize that the two types are unrelated. They will just smile and nod when they hear the name of a game that they liked.

Noaani

Shabooey wrote: »

Maybe as it was a kickstarter video trying to get people excited/back the game/trust him, when he's not made a game of his own before you might be more inclined to do that if you know some of the Dev team have worked on big successful games before. Don't think it's got anything to do with the PvP.

Boneshatter wrote: »

Mentioning CoD would be purely for name recognition. An upstart needs all the traction it can get and most people aren't going to realize that the two types are unrelated. They will just smile and nod when they hear the name of a game that they liked.

The question isn't of talking about CoD - the question is "why would they have a developer from a game, talk about it in a video, but not include that game in the list of "previously worked on" games that they so proudly display on their kickstarter page.

If they want to advertise the fact that they have someone from CoD, cool - I think we all get why. The question is why only partially advertise that fact.

It isn't even like they can say that the games they displayed on the kickstarter page were all just MMO's, because Xcom was there as well.

Vyril

Dolyem wrote: »

What PVE am I looking forward to the most? I think world bosses will be fun. But it's hard to say anything will be strictly PVE in this game, since it's focus is PvX. I am mostly looking forward to seeing how well PvP will be incorporated into PvE content and vice versa across all aspects of the game to achieve the best PvX experience.

Would you say as somebody looking forward to PvX you enjoy having PvE with risk vs reward?
Is the current implementation of risk vs reward appealing to you?

Dolyem

Vyril wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

What PVE am I looking forward to the most? I think world bosses will be fun. But it's hard to say anything will be strictly PVE in this game, since it's focus is PvX. I am mostly looking forward to seeing how well PvP will be incorporated into PvE content and vice versa across all aspects of the game to achieve the best PvX experience.

Would you say as somebody looking forward to PvX you enjoy having PvE with risk vs reward?
Is the current implementation of risk vs reward appealing to you?

I do enjoy having risk vs reward in all aspects
It needs more testing but so far it sounds pretty good.

Noaani

Vyril wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

What PVE am I looking forward to the most? I think world bosses will be fun. But it's hard to say anything will be strictly PVE in this game, since it's focus is PvX. I am mostly looking forward to seeing how well PvP will be incorporated into PvE content and vice versa across all aspects of the game to achieve the best PvX experience.

Would you say as somebody looking forward to PvX you enjoy having PvE with risk vs reward?
Is the current implementation of risk vs reward appealing to you?

I find it funny when people call PvP "risk vs reward".

Dygz

Exactly.

George_Black

Noaani wrote: »

Vyril wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

What PVE am I looking forward to the most? I think world bosses will be fun. But it's hard to say anything will be strictly PVE in this game, since it's focus is PvX. I am mostly looking forward to seeing how well PvP will be incorporated into PvE content and vice versa across all aspects of the game to achieve the best PvX experience.

Would you say as somebody looking forward to PvX you enjoy having PvE with risk vs reward?
Is the current implementation of risk vs reward appealing to you?

I find it funny when people call PvP "risk vs reward".

I find it funny that you still dont realize that the risk is "losing a pvp encounter, gaining xp debt, dropping raw mats, spawning back to the nearest village far away, lose morale, lose the raid and perhaps hear the guild complains" and the reward is "you won the pvp encounter, you get the raid, you get to keep leveling grinding getting closer to lv cap/better gear, you become a guild/server legend" over and over again in the owpvp mmo.

Noaani

George_Black wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Vyril wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

What PVE am I looking forward to the most? I think world bosses will be fun. But it's hard to say anything will be strictly PVE in this game, since it's focus is PvX. I am mostly looking forward to seeing how well PvP will be incorporated into PvE content and vice versa across all aspects of the game to achieve the best PvX experience.

Would you say as somebody looking forward to PvX you enjoy having PvE with risk vs reward?
Is the current implementation of risk vs reward appealing to you?

I find it funny when people call PvP "risk vs reward".

I find it funny that you still dont realize that the risk is "losing a pvp encounter, gaining xp debt, dropping raw mats, spawning back to the nearest village far away, lose morale, lose the raid and perhaps hear the guild complains" and the reward is "you won the pvp encounter, you get the raid, you get to keep leveling grinding getting closer to lv cap/better gear, you become a guild/server legend" over and over again in the owpvp mmo.

I find it funny that you think any of this is true.

If the risk component of risk vs reward comes from PvP in the most part, then that risk is at best inconsistent - yet the rewards will be the same.

In my experience, that PvP presence can range from literally no one attacking you the entire pull (had this on Kraken and Red Dragon in Archeage, both for different reasons), or can make it so the encounter is literally impossible to kill (EQ2 PvP servers - hardest PvP content of any game, literally unkillable). Clearly, there are many points in between these two points - but the real point is the inconsistent nature of the "risk" while the rewards remain the same.

Dolyem

Noaani wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Vyril wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

What PVE am I looking forward to the most? I think world bosses will be fun. But it's hard to say anything will be strictly PVE in this game, since it's focus is PvX. I am mostly looking forward to seeing how well PvP will be incorporated into PvE content and vice versa across all aspects of the game to achieve the best PvX experience.

Would you say as somebody looking forward to PvX you enjoy having PvE with risk vs reward?
Is the current implementation of risk vs reward appealing to you?

I find it funny when people call PvP "risk vs reward".

I find it funny that you still dont realize that the risk is "losing a pvp encounter, gaining xp debt, dropping raw mats, spawning back to the nearest village far away, lose morale, lose the raid and perhaps hear the guild complains" and the reward is "you won the pvp encounter, you get the raid, you get to keep leveling grinding getting closer to lv cap/better gear, you become a guild/server legend" over and over again in the owpvp mmo.

I find it funny that you think any of this is true.

If the risk component of risk vs reward comes from PvP in the most part, then that risk is at best inconsistent - yet the rewards will be the same.

In my experience, that PvP presence can range from literally no one attacking you the entire pull (had this on Kraken and Red Dragon in Archeage, both for different reasons), or can make it so the encounter is literally impossible to kill (EQ2 PvP servers - hardest PvP content of any game, literally unkillable). Clearly, there are many points in between these two points - but the real point is the inconsistent nature of the "risk" while the rewards remain the same.

I already know this is going to open a big steaming pile of semantics but risk is to incur the CHANCE of unfortunate consequences by engaging in (an action). It's not meant to always be consistent. Sometimes you can get away with it, sometimes you can't. Predictability is the staple of NPCs, while players tend to be much harder to predict.

Depraved

arent the rewards the same if you are doing pve and killing a raid boss, or farming, etc?

Dygz

George_Black wrote: »

I find it funny that you still dont realize that the risk is "losing a pvp encounter, gaining xp debt, dropping raw mats, spawning back to the nearest village far away, lose morale, lose the raid and perhaps hear the guild complains" and the reward is "you won the pvp encounter, you get the raid, you get to keep leveling grinding getting closer to lv cap/better gear, you become a guild/server legend" over and over again in the owpvp mmo.

All of that is the same "Risk" as being killed by a mob or NPC.
And, PvEers don't really care about the "reward" of winning the PvP encounter.
If you don't enjoy PvP, you still lose even if you win the battle. Because you were forced into an activity you didn't want to participate in.

"You get the raid" I guess that feels like a reward if you enjoy direct competition against other players.
For PvErs, it's an undesirable annoyance, regardless of who wins the battle.

Dygz

Dolyem wrote: »

I already know this is going to open a big steaming pile of semantics but risk is to incur the CHANCE of unfortunate consequences by engaging in (an action). It's not meant to always be consistent. Sometimes you can get away with it, sometimes you can't. Predictability is the staple of NPCs, while players tend to be much harder to predict.

Every time Steven talks about Risk it always seems to just mean more PvP encounters.
OK - not literally EVERY time.
I think there was once - months before the reveal of auto-flag Purple on the Open Seas - when Margaret demoed some models of giant fish, Steven may have refered to those monstrosities as greater Risk in those waters

Vyril

Noaani wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Vyril wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

What PVE am I looking forward to the most? I think world bosses will be fun. But it's hard to say anything will be strictly PVE in this game, since it's focus is PvX. I am mostly looking forward to seeing how well PvP will be incorporated into PvE content and vice versa across all aspects of the game to achieve the best PvX experience.

Would you say as somebody looking forward to PvX you enjoy having PvE with risk vs reward?
Is the current implementation of risk vs reward appealing to you?

I find it funny when people call PvP "risk vs reward".

I find it funny that you still dont realize that the risk is "losing a pvp encounter, gaining xp debt, dropping raw mats, spawning back to the nearest village far away, lose morale, lose the raid and perhaps hear the guild complains" and the reward is "you won the pvp encounter, you get the raid, you get to keep leveling grinding getting closer to lv cap/better gear, you become a guild/server legend" over and over again in the owpvp mmo.

I find it funny that you think any of this is true.

If the risk component of risk vs reward comes from PvP in the most part, then that risk is at best inconsistent - yet the rewards will be the same.

In my experience, that PvP presence can range from literally no one attacking you the entire pull (had this on Kraken and Red Dragon in Archeage, both for different reasons), or can make it so the encounter is literally impossible to kill (EQ2 PvP servers - hardest PvP content of any game, literally unkillable). Clearly, there are many points in between these two points - but the real point is the inconsistent nature of the "risk" while the rewards remain the same.

The risk is the loss of time, the reward is keeping that time and obtaining what you were trying to obtain during that time you didn't lose.

Pretty simple tbh.

Ace1234

@noanni

I find it funny that you think any of this is true.

If the risk component of risk vs reward comes from PvP in the most part, then that risk is at best inconsistent - yet the rewards will be the same.

In my experience, that PvP presence can range from literally no one attacking you the entire pull (had this on Kraken and Red Dragon in Archeage, both for different reasons), or can make it so the encounter is literally impossible to kill (EQ2 PvP servers - hardest PvP content of any game, literally unkillable). Clearly, there are many points in between these two points - but the real point is the inconsistent nature of the "risk" while the rewards remain the same.

What? Im surpised this even is a discussion. Of course the risk is inconsistent thats why it is a risk, since its not guarenteed.

The greater potential for loss is there on the spectrum of pvp punishment (flagging system), and even with the inconsistency, the added complexity of pvp elements alongside pve elements produces more complexity and difficulty (more factors to manage and different levels of player skill) and thus a greater chance of failure and actually realizing the existing risks, which could result in greater loss than theoretically more risky/costly scenarios.

In other words, if your life was on the line to spell the word "dog", its not necessarily as risky as something that is way more difficult but carries way less cost, due to the chance of actually realizing that cost.

The pvp element as a part of pvx equation can provide a greater risk of realizing the cost of failure, in addition to the potentially greater cost as a part of the cost spectrum, resulting in greater overall risk.

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