I am trying to understand the thought process of why we equate casual players to inefficiency and thus not contributing to the game world. I find the best way to understand another person's viewpoint is to ask them questions about it. Making assumptions is generally not always the best course.
In an absolute twist of fate and irony I'd ASSUME that it comes down to the comparison of individual impact on the game between a hardcore player and a casual one. Hardcore players often have a fairly bigger impact than casual ones, while casuals balance that out with their sheer numbers (even against groups of hardcore players).
A casual player could log in in the morning, harvest crops that are ready to be harvested, set their processing stations, remove goods that are complete. Then they go about their workday, occasionally checking in with the guild or clients through discord or some other means to see what they need. The casual player could use the web app to manage their freehold. They could hire farmhands and npcs to help run things. After work they can log in and repeat the same process. Some might even be able to pop in during lunch. On weekends most casual players to tend to have more time. So they can work a little extra hard or potentially use this time to get recipes and materials needed for the upcoming week.
If it does end up this easy of a gameplay (and I do agree that it kinda leans towards this being the case) - I'd find it even more baffling why Steven decided to completely fuck people over with freeholds. Removing casuals from the most casual-friendly content definitely seems like one hell of a decision.
That is a very good point about comparing individuals. I guess we will have to see how the workflow of a well-functioning processing freehold is during testing. If there are significant time delays for things like growing plants and bulk processing the comparison might become more equal.
I'm not sure why it would need to be made any more difficult or how it even could be. Plant, water, fertilize, and harvest. Rotate the crop fields. Rinse and repeat. Load up the processing plant with fuel and materials and press combine. Rinse and repeat. All of this will get min-maxed eventually.
That raises an interesting question: Should there be active processing similar to what we will have for crafting?
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FantmxMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Do you think this will be good for the game long term?
it will be. we need people logging in and processing things on those freeholds 24/7. a freehold owned by someone who only plays 2-3 hours a week and logs in to farm tomatoes and barely does any processing isn't good for the game.
imagine if every fh was owned by a casual who barely did any processing...how will people get processed goods?
If processing is the main purpose and function of freeholds, why is Intrepid spending so much time with things like skins, furniture, and businesses?
Does being a casual player mean that individual is automatically inefficient in their processing?
Its a money / smart marketing thing. They plan to create a lot of content and these houses aren't extra resources to make but what they need in the world anyway. So people buying them actually can pay for the development cost on the artist making it.
IS is clearly the winner here and it is a very good strategy business wise. You can fairly say they were not clear about things but that is development in process they most likely didn't have a answer, in fact they were most likely were going to have far less (until world changes). But they were not shy about saying the difficulty to get it, that being linked to it not being instanced made it clear their availability would not be huge in terms most most people owning their own.
End of the day this is one of those things that isn't the best for consumers to be following so it won't be swallowed well (as seen clearly). If no eon knew anything about the game and AoC was released no one would be batting a eye or caring, they would get their houses and want to work towards getting a freehold and being excited if they managed to get one.
Great point about making the models/resources anyways. If you have to do the work anyways you might as well try to make money twice with the same content.
Do you think this will be good for the game long term?
it will be. we need people logging in and processing things on those freeholds 24/7. a freehold owned by someone who only plays 2-3 hours a week and logs in to farm tomatoes and barely does any processing isn't good for the game.
imagine if every fh was owned by a casual who barely did any processing...how will people get processed goods?
If processing is the main purpose and function of freeholds, why is Intrepid spending so much time with things like skins, furniture, and businesses?
Does being a casual player mean that individual is automatically inefficient in their processing?
inefficient? yes as by the definition of being casual you are spending less time setting up deals, farming, skilling up, gaining recipes, etc. If that doesn't make sense to you, explain how a casual could be efficient for processing from both a player and a customer perspective as there will be many who seek out high level processers for their ability.
As for the cosmetics, its to add more variability so that more people might be willing to seek out and accomplish themselves with a freehold. More styles = more people enticed to own one.
Is that the definition of inefficient? This is the definition I found:
ADJECTIVE
not achieving maximum productivity; wasting or failing to make the best use of time or resources:
"an old, inefficient factory"
Are casual players not able to communicate with others outside of the game? Are they allowed to log into the game only once per day? Are they not allowed to buy recipes?
Why are you defining inefficient when casual is what I was describing? You didn't even answer my questions.
You were equating the definition of casual to inefficient. I was just pointing out they are not the same thing. I am trying to understand the thought process of why we equate casual players to inefficiency and thus not contributing to the game world. I find the best way to understand another person's viewpoint is to ask them questions about it. Making assumptions is generally not always the best course.
A casual player could log in in the morning, harvest crops that are ready to be harvested, set their processing stations, remove goods that are complete. Then they go about their workday, occasionally checking in with the guild or clients through discord or some other means to see what they need. The casual player could use the web app to manage their freehold. They could hire farmhands and npcs to help run things. After work they can log in and repeat the same process. Some might even be able to pop in during lunch. On weekends most casual players to tend to have more time. So they can work a little extra hard or potentially use this time to get recipes and materials needed for the upcoming week.
You seem to think I am trying to start an argument with you. I am just trying to understand how you have come to your opinion. I agree with your statement on cosmetics.
Answer me this if you truly want to understand what I mean.
Does a casual player min-max their time, knowledge, and engagement with the game?
That raises an interesting question: Should there be active processing similar to what we will have for crafting?
That's a tough one. On one hand it makes sense to have something, but on the other hand processing will generally be done in much greater volume. Also, making a sword or helmet should be more involved than making an ingot or board.
How many people want to walk up to a smelter intending to make 100 iron ingots and have to solve a Rubik's cube for each one? I guess they could have the mini game for the first to get it rolling and each after just goes in under the umbrella of the first?
If processing is the main purpose and function of freeholds, why is Intrepid spending so much time with things like skins, furniture, and businesses?
They were not spending so much time on that stuff, they are building the world. Player crafted and placed furniture will have utility in all types of housing. Skins are the different way all these buildings look around the world.
They have to build out the entire world, this is just a part of it.
RavicusMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I wonder if processing, at least in the processing of gathered herbs and such, would be able to harvest seeds off of the harvest. Or a chance at harvesting seeds for replanting, then possibly cross pollinating. Hermmmm, going deep into the weeds here lol. No pun intended
Do you think this will be good for the game long term?
I honestly think that even if freeholds were the only housing option available, (as long as you could get citizenship without it ofc)
It would not be a problem for the long term whatsoever - housing is not that important this whole thing is just a storm in a teacup
most MMORPGs don't even have housing at all, WoW doesn't have any housing, and in MMOs with housing like BDO that has a decent system, most players still don't care
however... freeholds are Not the only type of housing available so, zero problems, the few players that do care about housing can have it in nodes - and those that put in the work eventually will get their freehold
as for processing... not an issue either, over 30% to 40% of a server will have access due to family/guild sharing, more than enough for 1 out of 3 profession branches.
I would say it's importance as a function within game would depend on who you ask.
It's a fair point about instanced apartments. Maybe that satisfies the life skill players and decorators. Although there will be less of them than freeholds. It is also unclear just how involved they will be in the real estate process. I don't think we have heard a ton about their benefit to the player. It seems the main use will be to obtain citizenship.
Do you think this will be good for the game long term?
it will be. we need people logging in and processing things on those freeholds 24/7. a freehold owned by someone who only plays 2-3 hours a week and logs in to farm tomatoes and barely does any processing isn't good for the game.
imagine if every fh was owned by a casual who barely did any processing...how will people get processed goods?
If processing is the main purpose and function of freeholds, why is Intrepid spending so much time with things like skins, furniture, and businesses?
Does being a casual player mean that individual is automatically inefficient in their processing?
inefficient? yes as by the definition of being casual you are spending less time setting up deals, farming, skilling up, gaining recipes, etc. If that doesn't make sense to you, explain how a casual could be efficient for processing from both a player and a customer perspective as there will be many who seek out high level processers for their ability.
As for the cosmetics, its to add more variability so that more people might be willing to seek out and accomplish themselves with a freehold. More styles = more people enticed to own one.
Is that the definition of inefficient? This is the definition I found:
ADJECTIVE
not achieving maximum productivity; wasting or failing to make the best use of time or resources:
"an old, inefficient factory"
Are casual players not able to communicate with others outside of the game? Are they allowed to log into the game only once per day? Are they not allowed to buy recipes?
Why are you defining inefficient when casual is what I was describing? You didn't even answer my questions.
You were equating the definition of casual to inefficient. I was just pointing out they are not the same thing. I am trying to understand the thought process of why we equate casual players to inefficiency and thus not contributing to the game world. I find the best way to understand another person's viewpoint is to ask them questions about it. Making assumptions is generally not always the best course.
A casual player could log in in the morning, harvest crops that are ready to be harvested, set their processing stations, remove goods that are complete. Then they go about their workday, occasionally checking in with the guild or clients through discord or some other means to see what they need. The casual player could use the web app to manage their freehold. They could hire farmhands and npcs to help run things. After work they can log in and repeat the same process. Some might even be able to pop in during lunch. On weekends most casual players to tend to have more time. So they can work a little extra hard or potentially use this time to get recipes and materials needed for the upcoming week.
You seem to think I am trying to start an argument with you. I am just trying to understand how you have come to your opinion. I agree with your statement on cosmetics.
Answer me this if you truly want to understand what I mean.
Does a casual player min-max their time, knowledge, and engagement with the game?
Speaking for myself, yes.
Then i hate to break it to you, you are not a casual player.
I wonder what the forums are gonna look like after the Nodes showcase next week
Highly depends on how much Steven wants to prevent casuals from accessing them
well, he said a few years back that crafting will be even harder to master than processing making it the artisan branch with the highest difficulty so... I think when people find out that T4 and T5 crafting is even more exclusive than processing we gonna have some fun discussions going
I wonder what the forums are gonna look like after the Nodes showcase next week
Highly depends on how much Steven wants to prevent casuals from accessing them
i mean, you have to be a citizen for the rest of the housing and other benefits and that seems to piss everyone off so im sure it will go over swimmingly.
well, he said a few years back that crafting will be even harder to master than processing making it the artisan branch with the highest difficulty so... I think when people find out that T4 and T5 crafting is even more exclusive than processing we gonna have some fun discussions going
Yeah, I need more info on the specifics, cause I wanna be a crafter but I wanna live in a divine node cause I have more chances of being a mayor there. But if we can only craft top tier stuff in science metros - I'm fucked
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FantmxMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I wonder if processing, at least in the processing of gathered herbs and such, would be able to harvest seeds off of the harvest. Or a chance at harvesting seeds for replanting, then possibly cross pollinating. Hermmmm, going deep into the weeds here lol. No pun intended
I have asked Steven about both of these things. You can get seeds from your harvests but there are diminishing returns and eventually you need to get new seeds from somewhere else. For cross pollination there will not be a genetic like system for crops like there is for animal husbandry.
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FantmxMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
That raises an interesting question: Should there be active processing similar to what we will have for crafting?
I'd expect we'll get some active part for all professions. Well, at least I hope we do.
Not sure how I feel about that. I can see the rationale in crafting but it is harder for me to see in processing with processing being more bulk based rather than single creations.
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FantmxMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
That raises an interesting question: Should there be active processing similar to what we will have for crafting?
That's a tough one. On one hand it makes sense to have something, but on the other hand processing will generally be done in much greater volume. Also, making a sword or helmet should be more involved than making an ingot or board.
How many people want to walk up to a smelter intending to make 100 iron ingots and have to solve a Rubik's cube for each one? I guess they could have the mini game for the first to get it rolling and each after just goes in under the umbrella of the first?
I think I agree with you here.
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FantmxMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
If processing is the main purpose and function of freeholds, why is Intrepid spending so much time with things like skins, furniture, and businesses?
They were not spending so much time on that stuff, they are building the world. Player crafted and placed furniture will have utility in all types of housing. Skins are the different way all these buildings look around the world.
They have to build out the entire world, this is just a part of it.
A great point. If you can make money on one thing twice, you do it.
Not sure how I feel about that. I can see the rationale in crafting but it is harder for me to see in processing with processing being more bulk based rather than single creations.
We could get some discounts on the input mats if we manage to do the activity successfully. Or use less fuel (when it applies).
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FantmxMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Do you think this will be good for the game long term?
it will be. we need people logging in and processing things on those freeholds 24/7. a freehold owned by someone who only plays 2-3 hours a week and logs in to farm tomatoes and barely does any processing isn't good for the game.
imagine if every fh was owned by a casual who barely did any processing...how will people get processed goods?
If processing is the main purpose and function of freeholds, why is Intrepid spending so much time with things like skins, furniture, and businesses?
Does being a casual player mean that individual is automatically inefficient in their processing?
inefficient? yes as by the definition of being casual you are spending less time setting up deals, farming, skilling up, gaining recipes, etc. If that doesn't make sense to you, explain how a casual could be efficient for processing from both a player and a customer perspective as there will be many who seek out high level processers for their ability.
As for the cosmetics, its to add more variability so that more people might be willing to seek out and accomplish themselves with a freehold. More styles = more people enticed to own one.
Is that the definition of inefficient? This is the definition I found:
ADJECTIVE
not achieving maximum productivity; wasting or failing to make the best use of time or resources:
"an old, inefficient factory"
Are casual players not able to communicate with others outside of the game? Are they allowed to log into the game only once per day? Are they not allowed to buy recipes?
Why are you defining inefficient when casual is what I was describing? You didn't even answer my questions.
You were equating the definition of casual to inefficient. I was just pointing out they are not the same thing. I am trying to understand the thought process of why we equate casual players to inefficiency and thus not contributing to the game world. I find the best way to understand another person's viewpoint is to ask them questions about it. Making assumptions is generally not always the best course.
A casual player could log in in the morning, harvest crops that are ready to be harvested, set their processing stations, remove goods that are complete. Then they go about their workday, occasionally checking in with the guild or clients through discord or some other means to see what they need. The casual player could use the web app to manage their freehold. They could hire farmhands and npcs to help run things. After work they can log in and repeat the same process. Some might even be able to pop in during lunch. On weekends most casual players to tend to have more time. So they can work a little extra hard or potentially use this time to get recipes and materials needed for the upcoming week.
You seem to think I am trying to start an argument with you. I am just trying to understand how you have come to your opinion. I agree with your statement on cosmetics.
Answer me this if you truly want to understand what I mean.
Does a casual player min-max their time, knowledge, and engagement with the game?
Speaking for myself, yes.
Then i hate to break it to you, you are not a casual player.
How do you define casual?
I personally define it as the amount of time invested in a game. I have at more two hours in the evening and maybe 30 minutes in the morning to play during the week. But I can think and min-max all day. I do all of this in my head during the day precisely because I don't have time while in the game. So I try to efficiently use my time in game.
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HumblePuffinMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Killing the game for time-casuals, and not giving them cool things to do is a great way to kill a game. They need meat too. Casuals generally outnumber hardcore players by a very large margin. Steven knows this too. They pay the same amount of money as hardcore players and are absolutely the ones really paying the bills for the company.
All the things you can do on a freehold are traditionally things many casual players love to do, so denying them that would be eminently stupid for the health of the game. Casuals join families and guilds too. The truly solo player is not very common.
And who cares if they don't run their freehold to full capacity? That's just more market share for the hardcore players.
There. is. not. enough. room. in. the. world.
Unless you want the servers to look like an official ark or rust server. because that is what you would get.
There. would. be. a. lot. more. room. if. they. didn't. triple. the. size. of. freeholds.
They could easily double or triple the numbers if they went with smaller and/or different tiers of freeholds. Hamlets would be great too, so it's less spread out.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this decision to increase the size had less to do with forcing scarcity and was more so based on wanting the 6 buildings+house on a freehold and the size/look they wanted those buildings to have forcing the increase.
If they limited them to say 2 buildings and they said that some artisan buildings will take up 2 spots you could end up without even enough space for the 2 buildings needed for you artisan profession.
Do you think this will be good for the game long term?
as for processing... not an issue either, over 30% to 40% of a server will have access due to family/guild sharing, more than enough for 1 out of 3 profession branches.
With family and guild permissions well over 100% of the active registered accounts on a server could potentially have access to freehold processing if there is nothing preventing you from having guild permissions on separate freeholds than your own/families.
Only around 10% may be able to outright own one, but a potential of over 100% of the server having access through guild/family, hell even a potential of 80% of the server with just the family system seems like pretty reasonable access for something that is required for 1/3 of the artisan professions.
Do you think this will be good for the game long term?
it will be. we need people logging in and processing things on those freeholds 24/7. a freehold owned by someone who only plays 2-3 hours a week and logs in to farm tomatoes and barely does any processing isn't good for the game.
imagine if every fh was owned by a casual who barely did any processing...how will people get processed goods?
If processing is the main purpose and function of freeholds, why is Intrepid spending so much time with things like skins, furniture, and businesses?
Does being a casual player mean that individual is automatically inefficient in their processing?
Its a money / smart marketing thing. They plan to create a lot of content and these houses aren't extra resources to make but what they need in the world anyway. So people buying them actually can pay for the development cost on the artist making it.
IS is clearly the winner here and it is a very good strategy business wise. You can fairly say they were not clear about things but that is development in process they most likely didn't have a answer, in fact they were most likely were going to have far less (until world changes). But they were not shy about saying the difficulty to get it, that being linked to it not being instanced made it clear their availability would not be huge in terms most most people owning their own.
End of the day this is one of those things that isn't the best for consumers to be following so it won't be swallowed well (as seen clearly). If no eon knew anything about the game and AoC was released no one would be batting a eye or caring, they would get their houses and want to work towards getting a freehold and being excited if they managed to get one.
Great point about making the models/resources anyways. If you have to do the work anyways you might as well try to make money twice with the same content.
Right lmao. Though at the same time it is a good sign on their approach with it. Not necessary just buildings and such but the fact the have different types of unique animals. That is actually HUGE because they are development more rigs which can be used for more unique kinds of monsters meaning more interesting variety across the board and the difficult part out of the way.
Killing the game for time-casuals, and not giving them cool things to do is a great way to kill a game. They need meat too. Casuals generally outnumber hardcore players by a very large margin. Steven knows this too. They pay the same amount of money as hardcore players and are absolutely the ones really paying the bills for the company.
All the things you can do on a freehold are traditionally things many casual players love to do, so denying them that would be eminently stupid for the health of the game. Casuals join families and guilds too. The truly solo player is not very common.
And who cares if they don't run their freehold to full capacity? That's just more market share for the hardcore players.
It always fascinates me the way "hardcore" players look at 'casuals' like they're a plague on their game without realizing (or refusing to admit) that those sub paying casuals that just want to be left alone are why the game is able to stay afloat.
No casuals=no game. Steven isn't running a charity here, he will eventually run out of money or cut his losses if the game isn't turning a profit. It needs to be sustainable and if casuals are getting pooped on every time they turn around they will find another game and take their money with them.
Shhhh
Nobody likes hearing that
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FantmxMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Killing the game for time-casuals, and not giving them cool things to do is a great way to kill a game. They need meat too. Casuals generally outnumber hardcore players by a very large margin. Steven knows this too. They pay the same amount of money as hardcore players and are absolutely the ones really paying the bills for the company.
All the things you can do on a freehold are traditionally things many casual players love to do, so denying them that would be eminently stupid for the health of the game. Casuals join families and guilds too. The truly solo player is not very common.
And who cares if they don't run their freehold to full capacity? That's just more market share for the hardcore players.
There. is. not. enough. room. in. the. world.
Unless you want the servers to look like an official ark or rust server. because that is what you would get.
There. would. be. a. lot. more. room. if. they. didn't. triple. the. size. of. freeholds.
They could easily double or triple the numbers if they went with smaller and/or different tiers of freeholds. Hamlets would be great too, so it's less spread out.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this decision to increase the size had less to do with forcing scarcity and was more so based on wanting the 6 buildings+house on a freehold and the size/look they wanted those buildings to have forcing the increase.
If they limited them to say 2 buildings and they said that some artisan buildings will take up 2 spots you could end up without even enough space for the 2 buildings needed for you artisan profession.
Do you think this will be good for the game long term?
as for processing... not an issue either, over 30% to 40% of a server will have access due to family/guild sharing, more than enough for 1 out of 3 profession branches.
With family and guild permissions well over 100% of the active registered accounts on a server could potentially have access to freehold processing if there is nothing preventing you from having guild permissions on separate freeholds than your own/families.
Only around 10% may be able to outright own one, but a potential of over 100% of the server having access through guild/family, hell even a potential of 80% of the server with just the family system seems like pretty reasonable access for something that is required for 1/3 of the artisan professions.
I don't think I am making this up but I could be I need to find the quote. I am pretty sure the original plan was a smaller freehold that expanded in size as the node grew. So it would appear they just decided to do away with that part.
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HumblePuffinMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Killing the game for time-casuals, and not giving them cool things to do is a great way to kill a game. They need meat too. Casuals generally outnumber hardcore players by a very large margin. Steven knows this too. They pay the same amount of money as hardcore players and are absolutely the ones really paying the bills for the company.
All the things you can do on a freehold are traditionally things many casual players love to do, so denying them that would be eminently stupid for the health of the game. Casuals join families and guilds too. The truly solo player is not very common.
And who cares if they don't run their freehold to full capacity? That's just more market share for the hardcore players.
There. is. not. enough. room. in. the. world.
Unless you want the servers to look like an official ark or rust server. because that is what you would get.
There. would. be. a. lot. more. room. if. they. didn't. triple. the. size. of. freeholds.
They could easily double or triple the numbers if they went with smaller and/or different tiers of freeholds. Hamlets would be great too, so it's less spread out.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this decision to increase the size had less to do with forcing scarcity and was more so based on wanting the 6 buildings+house on a freehold and the size/look they wanted those buildings to have forcing the increase.
If they limited them to say 2 buildings and they said that some artisan buildings will take up 2 spots you could end up without even enough space for the 2 buildings needed for you artisan profession.
Do you think this will be good for the game long term?
as for processing... not an issue either, over 30% to 40% of a server will have access due to family/guild sharing, more than enough for 1 out of 3 profession branches.
With family and guild permissions well over 100% of the active registered accounts on a server could potentially have access to freehold processing if there is nothing preventing you from having guild permissions on separate freeholds than your own/families.
Only around 10% may be able to outright own one, but a potential of over 100% of the server having access through guild/family, hell even a potential of 80% of the server with just the family system seems like pretty reasonable access for something that is required for 1/3 of the artisan professions.
I don't think I am making this up but I could be I need to find the quote. I am pretty sure the original plan was a smaller freehold that expanded in size as the node grew. So it would appear they just decided to do away with that part.
Interesting. That doesn’t quite ring a bell for me but I tend to flow in and out of the Ashes info highway. I kinda wish we had a “historical” section on the wiki so we could know if we are just making things up or not sometimes lol. I’m not gonna complain about anything Lex does with that wiki though. It already amazing.
I was gonna say that wouldn’t expanding freeholds result in exactly what we have now, but I see, metro freeholds may be at that 6 building mark while vassals may only be at 3 or 4.
Enough with the casual farmiville QQ.
Freeholds are an important achievement.
Feeeholds should be family locked. Period. This will prevent 1000 member guilds from giving permission to 1000 people to work on the freehold.
Even the battalion permission idea will cause people to stop and think:
"Do I wanna be a nobody with nothing, amongst 1000 people? Or should I join a guild with 50-80 members and rotate batalion/family membership so that I am permitted to gain access to the 'guilds freeholds' ?" Fvck waiting for 1000 other members.
I think such restrictions will further empower meaningful, smaller communities and weaken the strong advantage that big guilds have, the sheer numbers power.
I think freeholds should allow permission to family members only to help small, strong guilds compete for them, whilst the big guilds enjoy the castles.
Didn't you just rake someone over the coals for asking if there would be Guildhalls for smaller guilds?
Now you want preferential treatment for smaller guilds in relation to Freeholds?
I told him off because of the victimhood attitude and request for alternative, participation trophy system.
I was always against big guilds. But with the attantion span of a goldfish and the innability of remembering ones stance and possitions in these forums, I award you the gold medal of "not good at reading and comprehenting" and I give the silver to whoever gave youna like on your mistake.
And George is sitting back laughing away. Well played George, well played.
It's not about laughing.
We waste too much time discussing the casual needs. We need conversations to revolve around true mmo players. Competitive players.
Freeholds isn't casual QQ problem. It's a zerg guild problem. This is the discussion we need.
My solution is simply counter the big guilds strength, the numbers. And you can achieve that by removing the permission function from the guild sphere and limiting into the family.
People dont like the word "limit" because they dont understand that you need structures. They want to hear "yes" to their every demand.
And behold!
Yet another topic overtaken by the "team casual" with dygz and friends, talking about casual needs.
Casual needs vs small guilds and large guilds
Casual gameplay and FH produce output (which will affect the economy of the game)
vs
Mmo player produce output.
Yes fantm.. I believe that it is good to lock out casuals (they are locking out themselves from every type of gameplay, btw) from the patches of land that have the ability with A LOT OF EFFORT to produce endgame materials.
It's good for mmos.
Comments
That is a very good point about comparing individuals. I guess we will have to see how the workflow of a well-functioning processing freehold is during testing. If there are significant time delays for things like growing plants and bulk processing the comparison might become more equal.
I'm not sure why it would need to be made any more difficult or how it even could be. Plant, water, fertilize, and harvest. Rotate the crop fields. Rinse and repeat. Load up the processing plant with fuel and materials and press combine. Rinse and repeat. All of this will get min-maxed eventually.
That raises an interesting question: Should there be active processing similar to what we will have for crafting?
Great point about making the models/resources anyways. If you have to do the work anyways you might as well try to make money twice with the same content.
Speaking for myself, yes.
That's a tough one. On one hand it makes sense to have something, but on the other hand processing will generally be done in much greater volume. Also, making a sword or helmet should be more involved than making an ingot or board.
How many people want to walk up to a smelter intending to make 100 iron ingots and have to solve a Rubik's cube for each one? I guess they could have the mini game for the first to get it rolling and each after just goes in under the umbrella of the first?
They were not spending so much time on that stuff, they are building the world. Player crafted and placed furniture will have utility in all types of housing. Skins are the different way all these buildings look around the world.
They have to build out the entire world, this is just a part of it.
It’s a non issue.
I would say it's importance as a function within game would depend on who you ask.
It's a fair point about instanced apartments. Maybe that satisfies the life skill players and decorators. Although there will be less of them than freeholds. It is also unclear just how involved they will be in the real estate process. I don't think we have heard a ton about their benefit to the player. It seems the main use will be to obtain citizenship.
Then i hate to break it to you, you are not a casual player.
well, he said a few years back that crafting will be even harder to master than processing making it the artisan branch with the highest difficulty so... I think when people find out that T4 and T5 crafting is even more exclusive than processing we gonna have some fun discussions going
i mean, you have to be a citizen for the rest of the housing and other benefits and that seems to piss everyone off so im sure it will go over swimmingly.
I have asked Steven about both of these things. You can get seeds from your harvests but there are diminishing returns and eventually you need to get new seeds from somewhere else. For cross pollination there will not be a genetic like system for crops like there is for animal husbandry.
Not sure how I feel about that. I can see the rationale in crafting but it is harder for me to see in processing with processing being more bulk based rather than single creations.
I think I agree with you here.
A great point. If you can make money on one thing twice, you do it.
How do you define casual?
I personally define it as the amount of time invested in a game. I have at more two hours in the evening and maybe 30 minutes in the morning to play during the week. But I can think and min-max all day. I do all of this in my head during the day precisely because I don't have time while in the game. So I try to efficiently use my time in game.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this decision to increase the size had less to do with forcing scarcity and was more so based on wanting the 6 buildings+house on a freehold and the size/look they wanted those buildings to have forcing the increase.
If they limited them to say 2 buildings and they said that some artisan buildings will take up 2 spots you could end up without even enough space for the 2 buildings needed for you artisan profession.
With family and guild permissions well over 100% of the active registered accounts on a server could potentially have access to freehold processing if there is nothing preventing you from having guild permissions on separate freeholds than your own/families.
Only around 10% may be able to outright own one, but a potential of over 100% of the server having access through guild/family, hell even a potential of 80% of the server with just the family system seems like pretty reasonable access for something that is required for 1/3 of the artisan professions.
Right lmao. Though at the same time it is a good sign on their approach with it. Not necessary just buildings and such but the fact the have different types of unique animals. That is actually HUGE because they are development more rigs which can be used for more unique kinds of monsters meaning more interesting variety across the board and the difficult part out of the way.
Shhhh
Nobody likes hearing that
I don't think I am making this up but I could be I need to find the quote. I am pretty sure the original plan was a smaller freehold that expanded in size as the node grew. So it would appear they just decided to do away with that part.
Interesting. That doesn’t quite ring a bell for me but I tend to flow in and out of the Ashes info highway. I kinda wish we had a “historical” section on the wiki so we could know if we are just making things up or not sometimes lol. I’m not gonna complain about anything Lex does with that wiki though. It already amazing.
I was gonna say that wouldn’t expanding freeholds result in exactly what we have now, but I see, metro freeholds may be at that 6 building mark while vassals may only be at 3 or 4.
I told him off because of the victimhood attitude and request for alternative, participation trophy system.
I was always against big guilds. But with the attantion span of a goldfish and the innability of remembering ones stance and possitions in these forums, I award you the gold medal of "not good at reading and comprehenting" and I give the silver to whoever gave youna like on your mistake.
It's not about laughing.
We waste too much time discussing the casual needs. We need conversations to revolve around true mmo players. Competitive players.
Freeholds isn't casual QQ problem. It's a zerg guild problem. This is the discussion we need.
My solution is simply counter the big guilds strength, the numbers. And you can achieve that by removing the permission function from the guild sphere and limiting into the family.
People dont like the word "limit" because they dont understand that you need structures. They want to hear "yes" to their every demand.
Yet another topic overtaken by the "team casual" with dygz and friends, talking about casual needs.
Casual needs vs small guilds and large guilds
Casual gameplay and FH produce output (which will affect the economy of the game)
vs
Mmo player produce output.
Yes fantm.. I believe that it is good to lock out casuals (they are locking out themselves from every type of gameplay, btw) from the patches of land that have the ability with A LOT OF EFFORT to produce endgame materials.
It's good for mmos.
Casuals can decorate in ff14 and eso.