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The freeholds are not for casuals. They are for guilds. Should they be for megaguilds or not?

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Comments

  • BoneshatterBoneshatter Member
    George_Black wrote: »
    And behold!
    Yet another topic overtaken by the "team casual" with dygz and friends, talking about casual needs.

    Casual needs vs small guilds and large guilds

    Casual gameplay and FH produce output (which will affect the economy of the game)
    vs
    Mmo player produce output.

    Yes fantm.. I believe that it is good to lock out casuals (they are locking out themselves from every type of gameplay, btw) from the patches of land that have the ability with A LOT OF EFFORT to produce endgame materials.
    It's good for mmos.

    Casuals can decorate in ff14 and eso.

    And then you won't have a game to play because there won't be enough subs.
  • FantmxFantmx Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    George_Black wrote: »
    And behold!
    Yet another topic overtaken by the "team casual" with dygz and friends, talking about casual needs.

    Casual needs vs small guilds and large guilds

    Casual gameplay and FH produce output (which will affect the economy of the game)
    vs
    Mmo player produce output.

    Yes fantm.. I believe that it is good to lock out casuals (they are locking out themselves from every type of gameplay, btw) from the patches of land that have the ability with A LOT OF EFFORT to produce endgame materials.
    It's good for mmos.

    Casuals can decorate in ff14 and eso.

    How do you define casual?
    q1nu38cjgq3j.png
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Fantmx wrote: »
    George_Black wrote: »
    And behold!
    Yet another topic overtaken by the "team casual" with dygz and friends, talking about casual needs.

    Casual needs vs small guilds and large guilds

    Casual gameplay and FH produce output (which will affect the economy of the game)
    vs
    Mmo player produce output.

    Yes fantm.. I believe that it is good to lock out casuals (they are locking out themselves from every type of gameplay, btw) from the patches of land that have the ability with A LOT OF EFFORT to produce endgame materials.
    It's good for mmos.

    Casuals can decorate in ff14 and eso.

    How do you define casual?

    What is this?
    Do you think you are Socrates or smthg?
    Are you asking an mmo player what his definition of casuals is?
    This is a lower level question than the ones you do on your program.
  • SirChancelotSirChancelot Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    George_Black wrote: »
    And behold!
    Yet another topic overtaken by the "team casual" with dygz and friends, talking about casual needs.

    Casual needs vs small guilds and large guilds

    Casual gameplay and FH produce output (which will affect the economy of the game)
    vs
    Mmo player produce output.

    Yes fantm.. I believe that it is good to lock out casuals (they are locking out themselves from every type of gameplay, btw) from the patches of land that have the ability with A LOT OF EFFORT to produce endgame materials.
    It's good for mmos.

    Casuals can decorate in ff14 and eso.

    I get what you're saying dude, but this game, and MMOs in general, won't survive without some casual players. It will need people to fill out the servers or the servers will die. If intrepid doesn't give somethings for that portion of the player base to enjoy, then they will stop showing up and the game will die. I mean, I guess they will condense it all down to one server first to try and get it to keep going, but still that won't maintain a revenue to keep the lights on.

    Freeholds were something that a portion of players that aren't big into what you like were looking forward to. There are players in MMOs that enjoy treating it like Farmville and just enjoy the crafting and economic activities, and freeholds were what they were looking forward to... And they pretty much got told they weren't for them.

    I think it'll hurt the game overall to make an aspect of the game inaccessible to a major portion of players. Especially the players that would see that as their favorite part of the game.

    I mean, I don't care because it's not really something I want be using... But I can see why people are upset about it.
  • FantmxFantmx Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    George_Black wrote: »
    Fantmx wrote: »
    George_Black wrote: »
    And behold!
    Yet another topic overtaken by the "team casual" with dygz and friends, talking about casual needs.

    Casual needs vs small guilds and large guilds

    Casual gameplay and FH produce output (which will affect the economy of the game)
    vs
    Mmo player produce output.

    Yes fantm.. I believe that it is good to lock out casuals (they are locking out themselves from every type of gameplay, btw) from the patches of land that have the ability with A LOT OF EFFORT to produce endgame materials.
    It's good for mmos.

    Casuals can decorate in ff14 and eso.

    How do you define casual?

    What is this?
    Do you think you are Socrates or smthg?
    Are you asking an mmo player what his definition of casuals is?
    This is a lower level question than the ones you do on your program.

    I am trying to understand who you think should be excluded and why. That would help me better understand what you are trying say and why and I'm interested in why you have to say what you say. I have been told I am actually a hardcore player, so I was also curious how I would fit your definition.

    But if you equate this question as on the level of Socrates then I don't expct you to provde an answr and that is ok.

    🙏
    q1nu38cjgq3j.png
  • Ayeveegaming1Ayeveegaming1 Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I like this guys take. Pretty close to mine. https://youtu.be/_l1iDPHtpPo
    vmw4o7x2etm1.png
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Fantmx wrote: »
    George_Black wrote: »
    Fantmx wrote: »
    George_Black wrote: »
    And behold!
    Yet another topic overtaken by the "team casual" with dygz and friends, talking about casual needs.

    Casual needs vs small guilds and large guilds

    Casual gameplay and FH produce output (which will affect the economy of the game)
    vs
    Mmo player produce output.

    Yes fantm.. I believe that it is good to lock out casuals (they are locking out themselves from every type of gameplay, btw) from the patches of land that have the ability with A LOT OF EFFORT to produce endgame materials.
    It's good for mmos.

    Casuals can decorate in ff14 and eso.

    How do you define casual?

    What is this?
    Do you think you are Socrates or smthg?
    Are you asking an mmo player what his definition of casuals is?
    This is a lower level question than the ones you do on your program.

    I am trying to understand who you think should be excluded and why. That would help me better understand what you are trying say and why and I'm interested in why you have to say what you say. I have been told I am actually a hardcore player, so I was also curious how I would fit your definition.

    But if you equate this question as on the level of Socrates then I don't expct you to provde an answr and that is ok.

    🙏

    I wont answer your question. I find it silly that you ask somebody what "they" define as a casual.

    I will ask you a question in return. If you dont find it worthy, feel free to reject it.

    Do you see any comparisons with Stevens vision of his mmo and ESO or ff14?
  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    George_Black wrote: »
    Fantmx wrote: »
    George_Black wrote: »
    Fantmx wrote: »
    George_Black wrote: »
    And behold!
    Yet another topic overtaken by the "team casual" with dygz and friends, talking about casual needs.

    Casual needs vs small guilds and large guilds

    Casual gameplay and FH produce output (which will affect the economy of the game)
    vs
    Mmo player produce output.

    Yes fantm.. I believe that it is good to lock out casuals (they are locking out themselves from every type of gameplay, btw) from the patches of land that have the ability with A LOT OF EFFORT to produce endgame materials.
    It's good for mmos.

    Casuals can decorate in ff14 and eso.

    How do you define casual?

    What is this?
    Do you think you are Socrates or smthg?
    Are you asking an mmo player what his definition of casuals is?
    This is a lower level question than the ones you do on your program.

    I am trying to understand who you think should be excluded and why. That would help me better understand what you are trying say and why and I'm interested in why you have to say what you say. I have been told I am actually a hardcore player, so I was also curious how I would fit your definition.

    But if you equate this question as on the level of Socrates then I don't expct you to provde an answr and that is ok.

    🙏

    I wont answer your question. I find it silly that you ask somebody what "they" define as a casual.

    I kinda want to know too.

    Is it because you don't know what the word means and you are trying to hide it? Because you are clearly using it wrong in this thread. Casual doesn't mean solo by any proper definition out there.

    There's time-casual, like Fantmx, where they only have a couple of hours a day to play, and there's approach-casual, where they approach the game in a way such that they just log in and do whatever fancies them without thinking about optimizing what they do or the time they spend doing it, but just sort of go with the flow. The latter casual type can play 10 hours a day and still be a casual player. You could call them time-hardcore and approach-casual and it would be correct too. Fantmx would be in the time-casual and approach-hardcore category.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited July 2023

    George_Black wrote: »
    Fantmx wrote: »
    George_Black wrote: »
    And behold!
    Yet another topic overtaken by the "team casual" with dygz and friends, talking about casual needs.

    Casual needs vs small guilds and large guilds

    Casual gameplay and FH produce output (which will affect the economy of the game)
    vs
    Mmo player produce output.

    Yes fantm.. I believe that it is good to lock out casuals (they are locking out themselves from every type of gameplay, btw) from the patches of land that have the ability with A LOT OF EFFORT to produce endgame materials.
    It's good for mmos.

    Casuals can decorate in ff14 and eso.

    How do you define casual?

    What is this?
    Do you think you are Socrates or smthg?
    Are you asking an mmo player what his definition of casuals is?
    This is a lower level question than the ones you do on your program.

    Harden up dude.

    I answered this question recently when asked - why can't you?
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    bill-hader-eating-popcorn.gif
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


    giphy-downsized-large.gif?cid=b603632fp2svffcmdi83yynpfpexo413mpb1qzxnh3cei0nx&ep=v1_gifs_gifId&rid=giphy-downsized-large.gif&ct=s
  • KilionKilion Member, Alpha Two
    Freeholds are not explicitely for guilds. They are according to Steven for the top 10% of players from the various paths in which Ashes of Creation can be played and I think we can expect Intrepid to optimize the systems of for freehold acquisition in accordance with that goal. The top 10% of players in a religious Node (measured through favor) will be able to acquire a freehold, presumably (!) independent of whether they are supported by their guild or not. The top 10% of players in a military Node (measured by their honor) will also be able to acquire a freehold. At least that is what it sounds like from the Kaos and Lace interview in the part about "bound currencies"
    The answer is probably >>> HERE <<<
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    Right...
    Next time someone asks you what's 1+1, you "toughen up" and "prove that you know the answer" like a good kid and tell him "it's 2 mister! It's 2!!!"

    Or you can act like adults and ignore that irrelevant nonsense. I am here to talk about the dangers of megaguilds, owning up everything.
    I have explained in another thread that bound currencies wont stop mega guilds from cornering FH.

    Stop talking about the casual needs in every thread and try to give relative feedback for AoCs systems based on it's community the game is made for.
  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I actually agree with the "mega-guilds are bad" thing, but then you start shitting on the vast majority of the player base (casuals) for no good reason. And refuse to even explain that. Next time, I suggest just focusing on the main topic instead of including something that has nothing to do with the issue.

    If freeholds work as I expect them to, with processing stations that work in serial and not in parallel, so you have to wait for other players to finish their processing run before you can run yours, I think mega-guilds will try to snatch up as many freeholds as they can.

    Guild size maximums do work against the mega-guilds, fortunately. Anytime you force mega-guilds to divide up into sub-guilds, the odds of friction increases a lot. One guild might get preferential treatment, and the others resent that, so they revolt and much drama ensues for the good of the rest of the server.

    Indirectly, this is something that already helps the issue a little bit, but I also think more is needed.

  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    George_Black wrote: »
    Right...
    Next time someone asks you what's 1+1, you "toughen up" and "prove that you know the answer" like a good kid and tell him "it's 2 mister! It's 2!!!"

    Or you can act like adults and ignore that irrelevant nonsense. I am here to talk about the dangers of megaguilds, owning up everything.
    I have explained in another thread that bound currencies wont stop mega guilds from cornering FH.

    Stop talking about the casual needs in every thread and try to give relative feedback for AoCs systems based on it's community the game is made for.

    If you are going to make suggest that an aspect of the game isnt for casuals, but then have a warped view of what a casual player is, people asking you to define what you are talking about when you say "casual" isnt irrelevant nonsense, it is relative sense.

    It's funny, you are talking about the dangers of mega guilds owning up everything, yet I have been talking about that since the day freeholds were discussed. Somehow you think you are doing a good thing, yet I am giving irrelevant feedback seemingly based on a segment of the population the game isnt made for - despite Dteven having said the majority of players in Ashes will be casual.

    Something isnt quite right in everything you are saying here...
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Fantmx wrote: »
    Does being a casual player mean that individual is automatically inefficient in their processing?
    You mean Casual TIME player??

  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    Liniker wrote: »
    I wonder what the forums are gonna look like after the Nodes showcase next week
    Shangri-La
    Love and world peace...
    <3
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Boneshatter wrote: »
    And then you won't have a game to play because there won't be enough subs.

    How do you explain EVE Online's 20 years of success being way more hardcore AoC will ever be?
    img]
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  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    George_Black wrote: »
    And behold!
    Yet another topic overtaken by the "team casual" with dygz and friends, talking about casual needs.
    Dang! I didn't even say anything about Casual needs in this thread, but somehow my name all up in ya mouth anyways.

    Sure, Fantm is my co-host. I wonder who else counts as my friends.
    Is NiKr Casual?
    Is it just anyone who talks about Casual needs gets dismissed for being my friend??
  • Ayeveegaming1Ayeveegaming1 Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I think the term casual needs to be broken down.
    Solo player casual
    group player casual
    Multi account solo casual
    RP Casual
    PK casual
    Hours per week casual
    It hard to quantify the term casual as it means different things to different people.
    vmw4o7x2etm1.png
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    SirChancelot wrote: »
    I think it'll hurt the game overall to make an aspect of the game inaccessible to a major portion of players. Especially the players that would see that as their favorite part of the game.

    WoW doesn't have housing, GW2, plenty of games, housing is not something that can make or break a game.

    Never in history of humanity a good MMO failed because of not having housing / having bad housing or anything housing related.

    And if we start talking about OPEN WORLD Land / Housing 99% of games don't even have it.

    and BTW, Ashes WILL have instanced and node housing for everyone - it's just the freeholds.

    I'm sorry guys y'all are absolutely out of touch with reality if you think enough people care about this for limited freeholds even be an issue for the game.

    It's just getting to a point it's annoying to read the same things being repeated again, if freeholds is the hill you want to die one that's fine, just go play Palia, I can guarantee 100% Ashes will be fine, because there are enough people that want Meaningful, limited systems in an MMO.
    img]
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  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    Fantmx wrote: »
    Does being a casual player mean that individual is automatically inefficient in their processing?
    You mean Casual TIME player??

    Here Dygz. Here is the trivial and pedantic substance that people like you dig.
    Now, post for the 20th time your bartle score. That way you will have covered all the front page threads with it.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Nerror wrote: »
    Is it because you don't know what the word means and you are trying to hide it? Because you are clearly using it wrong in this thread. Casual doesn't mean solo by any proper definition out there.

    There's time-casual, like Fantmx, where they only have a couple of hours a day to play, and there's approach-casual, where they approach the game in a way such that they just log in and do whatever fancies them without thinking about optimizing what they do or the time they spend doing it, but just sort of go with the flow. The latter casual type can play 10 hours a day and still be a casual player. You could call them time-hardcore and approach-casual and it would be correct too. Fantmx would be in the time-casual and approach-hardcore category.
    Yes. And, I consider myself a "time-hardcore/challenge-casual" player.
    I mostly solo when adventuring/questing, but...
    I'd be helping Fantm with his farming, so...
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Ravicus wrote: »
    I think the term casual needs to be broken down.
    Solo player casual
    group player casual
    Multi account solo casual
    RP Casual
    PK casual
    Hours per week casual
    It hard to quantify the term casual as it means different things to different people.

    2098983 casuals?
  • Ayeveegaming1Ayeveegaming1 Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    George_Black wrote: »
    Dygz wrote: »
    Fantmx wrote: »
    Does being a casual player mean that individual is automatically inefficient in their processing?
    You mean Casual TIME player??

    Here Dygz. Here is the trivial and pedantic substance that people like you dig.
    Now, post for the 20th time your bartle score. That way you will have covered all the front page threads with it.
    George_Black wrote: »
    Ravicus wrote: »
    I think the term casual needs to be broken down.
    Solo player casual
    group player casual
    Multi account solo casual
    RP Casual
    PK casual
    Hours per week casual
    It hard to quantify the term casual as it means different things to different people.

    2098983 casuals?

    Right lol. One point would be whatever you are trying present as casual someone is going to argue lol
    vmw4o7x2etm1.png
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    SirChancelot wrote: »
    Freeholds were something that a portion of players that aren't big into what you like were looking forward to. There are players in MMOs that enjoy treating it like Farmville and just enjoy the crafting and economic activities, and freeholds were what they were looking forward to... And they pretty much got told they weren't for them.

    I think it'll hurt the game overall to make an aspect of the game inaccessible to a major portion of players. Especially the players that would see that as their favorite part of the game.

    I mean, I don't care because it's not really something I want be using... But I can see why people are upset about it.
    Yeah - and so I'm just wondering...
    Why did people spend money purchasing Freehold skins if they won't be able to use them?
    Because the cosmetics shop did not indicate that Freehold skins were just for guilds.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    Dygz wrote: »
    SirChancelot wrote: »
    Freeholds were something that a portion of players that aren't big into what you like were looking forward to. There are players in MMOs that enjoy treating it like Farmville and just enjoy the crafting and economic activities, and freeholds were what they were looking forward to... And they pretty much got told they weren't for them.

    I think it'll hurt the game overall to make an aspect of the game inaccessible to a major portion of players. Especially the players that would see that as their favorite part of the game.

    I mean, I don't care because it's not really something I want be using... But I can see why people are upset about it.
    Yeah - and so I'm just wondering...
    Why did people spend money purchasing Freehold skins if they won't be able to use them?

    You mean that people on this planet ALWAYS make sense?
    Like, you, following an owpvp game?

    I wonder why they do what they do.
    But hey. Let's change our projects to accomodate these people that rush ahead blindfolded.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I haven't asked for any changes, though.
  • Ayeveegaming1Ayeveegaming1 Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    SirChancelot wrote: »
    Freeholds were something that a portion of players that aren't big into what you like were looking forward to. There are players in MMOs that enjoy treating it like Farmville and just enjoy the crafting and economic activities, and freeholds were what they were looking forward to... And they pretty much got told they weren't for them.

    I think it'll hurt the game overall to make an aspect of the game inaccessible to a major portion of players. Especially the players that would see that as their favorite part of the game.

    I mean, I don't care because it's not really something I want be using... But I can see why people are upset about it.
    Yeah - and so I'm just wondering...
    Why did people spend money purchasing Freehold skins if they won't be able to use them?
    Because the cosmetics shop did not indicate that Freehold skins were just for guilds.

    The skins I have came with the kickstart pledge
    vmw4o7x2etm1.png
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Why not both?
    :wink:
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    But you havent been paying attention to steven saying "these are skins. You need to have unlocked the content for them. They dont guarantee you a mount, or an armor, or a ship, or housing".
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