NiKr wrote: » Korela wrote: » I don't think that there is enough FHs in 1 Node for 1 Guild to be more than 1 per family in it. Or it is just a bad family managemet in guild? One guild, even a small one, would most likely spread over several nodes. Purely because different people in that guild would want different benefits from node types. A strong guild would have enough money to outbid other families/small guilds on each FH they'd want to buy. With 9 processing professions and, at least, 2 buildings per profession, you'd need at least 3 FHs to maximize your output of mats (probably more). And that's just for a single line of said output. Any strong guild would want to maximize their output, because they wouldn't want to be bottlenecked in their crafting. So no strong guild would want to limit themselves to just one FH per family. As long as they have the money they'll buy up as many FHs as possible.
Korela wrote: » I don't think that there is enough FHs in 1 Node for 1 Guild to be more than 1 per family in it. Or it is just a bad family managemet in guild?
Korela wrote: » Fantmx wrote: » I am starting to think the term carebear best describes those who are so intent on being the super special player in the virtual world that they try to make everyone else feel soft and beneath them by calling those people carebears. A mirrored version of their reality. I can use other term. Just let me know how to call players who loves to login and get 10 rewards, then they are doing daily quests, exploring and chatting, but then do not understand why that guy near them owns a land but they are not, and rushes to the forums and fills it with their fantasies.
Fantmx wrote: » I am starting to think the term carebear best describes those who are so intent on being the super special player in the virtual world that they try to make everyone else feel soft and beneath them by calling those people carebears. A mirrored version of their reality.
Korela wrote: » Is it possible for 1 Guild to defend dozens FHs in several nodes? If so, then you are right.
Korela wrote: » Boneshatter wrote: » Korela wrote: » Correct me if I am wrong, but ~2k freeholds ("low thousands") * 9 players (family system) = ~18k players. Is it not enough? Or literally every carebear should own a freehold, dragon, castle and all BIS items? Why do all of these things get tied together anytime someone is defending exclusivity? Nobody said anything about the other stuff you listed- just freeholds. The only reason anybody cares about freeholds is because of the multitude of game features tied behind them. Low-effort players who loves login rewards, participation trophies, daily quests, etc, are destroyed the MMORPG genre for other type of players. Their demands are unlimited. I can see that and point it out early. I do not care about what they are saying if the implication of their statements is lowering the risk to 0 and rising the reward to the sky.
Boneshatter wrote: » Korela wrote: » Correct me if I am wrong, but ~2k freeholds ("low thousands") * 9 players (family system) = ~18k players. Is it not enough? Or literally every carebear should own a freehold, dragon, castle and all BIS items? Why do all of these things get tied together anytime someone is defending exclusivity? Nobody said anything about the other stuff you listed- just freeholds. The only reason anybody cares about freeholds is because of the multitude of game features tied behind them.
Korela wrote: » Correct me if I am wrong, but ~2k freeholds ("low thousands") * 9 players (family system) = ~18k players. Is it not enough? Or literally every carebear should own a freehold, dragon, castle and all BIS items?
NiKr wrote: » Korela wrote: » Is it possible for 1 Guild to defend dozens FHs in several nodes? If so, then you are right. Unless their enemies somehow manage to siege all of those nodes all at the same time - easily. Even just a few hours of stagger between the sieges would let them defend their FHs w/o a problem.
Veeshan wrote: » If one guild monopolises all freeholds around a node they also effectivly weakens the node cause less players are invested in that node so in node war less defenders there a balance between freehold ownership and node defence numbers. Also from my understanding if im not mistaken is that freeholds can be opened up to be used by guild members along with the family so there is possibility thats a guild might own 5 or so freehold to cover there processing needs but then use those family spots for players outside the guild for either added defence for node to protect the freehold or to rent out family spots to players to get access to the processing that they need. We honostly need to see how the system plays out in game before anyoen can make judgement on the system, i think on paper its good for the game overall.
Boneshatter wrote: » All of this hostility because some of us feel that crafting should be available to everyone? Again, you're adding things to your rebuttal that were never mentioned thinking it strengthens your argument. It isn't helping you. Does a casual that wants to open a tavern and play parlor games with travelers really interrupt your gameplay that much?
Veeshan wrote: » Guild will tend to wanna live around 1 node not all over the place so all the freehold they own will most likly be tied to that one node or possibly the neighbouring node however if a single guild takes all freeholds they reduce the amount of players invested in the node which in term leads to less defenders for that node if it gets attacked. You wil most likly see a couple guilds try allying up to claim a node and surrounding freeholds more than anything tbh.
George_Black wrote: » Lineage 2 and others being the proof that you dont have to consider people complaining about all the dust they bite.
Fantmx wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » If one guild monopolises all freeholds around a node they also effectivly weakens the node cause less players are invested in that node so in node war less defenders there a balance between freehold ownership and node defence numbers. Also from my understanding if im not mistaken is that freeholds can be opened up to be used by guild members along with the family so there is possibility thats a guild might own 5 or so freehold to cover there processing needs but then use those family spots for players outside the guild for either added defence for node to protect the freehold or to rent out family spots to players to get access to the processing that they need. We honostly need to see how the system plays out in game before anyoen can make judgement on the system, i think on paper its good for the game overall. Guild halls can give bonuses to surrounding freeholds too, effectively setting this up to be a guild monopolizing at least part of nodes.
George_Black wrote: » Veeshan and Korela with the useful perseptions will help the development when it comes to FHs. Whilst the usual suspects will keep bloating the threads with shitty semantics, as well as "mmos need casuals". What a waste of time to read their posts, and what a waste of time for anyone trully responsibilty of compiling info for the devs, trying to find something relevant. I wonder if the moderators shake their head as they are about to type a polite post to defuse the arguments. I wonder what they really think. No shit, mmos have lots of casuals... But not every mmo is designed for them. Only the ones that care to just milk them witj eshops. Lineage 2 and others being the proof that you dont have to consider people complaining about all the dust they bite. Focus on what matters. AoC is a competitive, guild gameplay based mmo. Solve the problems around independant giulds and zerg guilds. Not people that cant put the effort to compete.
NiKr wrote: » Veeshan wrote: » Guild will tend to wanna live around 1 node not all over the place so all the freehold they own will most likly be tied to that one node or possibly the neighbouring node however if a single guild takes all freeholds they reduce the amount of players invested in the node which in term leads to less defenders for that node if it gets attacked. You wil most likly see a couple guilds try allying up to claim a node and surrounding freeholds more than anything tbh. Nodes will be close to each other, so the guild could still live in one general location but occupy several nodes. Also, there'd be a few dozen of freeholds per node at most. How would that put even a dent in the overall amount of citizens of a node (which will be up to hundreds, if not thousands even)? Also also, with majority of FHs getting bought up by guilds (just in general) the casuals would have nowhere to go, so in the end they wouldn't care that FHs are a guild thing. Intrepid would have to design proper benefits for all players in a node to keep them living in that node and care about its safety. George_Black wrote: » Lineage 2 and others being the proof that you dont have to consider people complaining about all the dust they bite. L2's casuals could still max out their crafters/spoilers and provide their services to others. And this is what's people are complaining about. Obviously even in L2 it was super hard to even get your hands on mats and recipes at the top lvls, but you could ultimately do it because they were, in theory, unlimited in their amount (given time). And iirc even back in Interlude there were ways for solos to get those recipes and mats. FHs and metro citizenship will be limited to only guild members and most likely only members of the strong guilds. So in that way Ashes is even more restricted than L2 was.
George_Black wrote: » In theory, which is where your whole post is built upon, solos and casuals can join a family or a guild that would allow them to own the FH.In reality no solo or casual player in L2 could reach the recipies and mats of high end gear. Dont make things up. Dont make hypothetical scenarios, dont argue semantics.
NiKr wrote: » George_Black wrote: » In theory, which is where your whole post is built upon, solos and casuals can join a family or a guild that would allow them to own the FH.In reality no solo or casual player in L2 could reach the recipies and mats of high end gear. Dont make things up. Dont make hypothetical scenarios, dont argue semantics. This was in c5. A casual/solo player could buy buffs from someone in town and go kill a few mobs for these quests. Yes it was hella hard and would take a looong time, but you could still do it. And these are the equivalent of the t4-5 processing/crafting that AoC's freeholds and science metro will limit. Yes, some people might sell their family access. At least that's what Steven wants them to do. But I'd be very interested in seeing how many people will actually do that in the game.
DrDefault wrote: » Depraved wrote: » the gamer dad with 5 wives isnt gonna get most things in games where there is competition Translation: I don’t have a full time job, a significant other, nor a higher education I’m pursuing. I sit at home all day and do nothing.
Depraved wrote: » the gamer dad with 5 wives isnt gonna get most things in games where there is competition
George_Black wrote: » Secondly. These additions were added 5 years or more after launch. Catch-up mechanics. How is any of what you said relevant. Please... stop with the nonsense.
NiKr wrote: » George_Black wrote: » Secondly. These additions were added 5 years or more after launch. Catch-up mechanics. How is any of what you said relevant. Please... stop with the nonsense. C3. A-grade has just been added. With them 3 solo quests were added for A-grade weapons and accessories. No "catch-up" mechanics. Direct solo questing for near-top lvl items (don't forget, AoC has t4 locked behind insanely difficult-to-achieve stuff too, not just t5). Yes, armor was more difficult to achieve, but that's probably because pdef was easier to boost and its impact was smaller (physical classes used Plated Leather set even at 60+ lvls). My point being, the game doesn't have to be insanely limiting to its players to still be really hardcore. Just like L2 was. Give the players the ability to do all those things, but make the process itself really expensive. Literally bait people into that shit. Guilds will still dominate, the game will still be seen as way too hardcore for any casual - but there won't be any complaining about "I literally cannot even access this shit". I suggest being even worse than the design currently is, but being worse in a much more presentable way.
Sathrago wrote: » [ Do you think everyone should be able to do every artisan skill to max too? Perhaps the limit there is to give more value and something to achieve in the game that means more than a little flash of light and a "you did it!" at the bottom of your screen?
