Dygz wrote: » It does depend on what you mean by “play”.
Dygz wrote: » I think you'll find that I give Intrepid considerably more leeway than I give myself.
Liniker wrote: » DrDefault wrote: » Translation: I don’t have a full time job, a significant other, nor a higher education I’m pursuing. I sit at home all day and do nothing. you know, some of us had success in life and have now a lot of free time, others like steven retired very early on, others work from home and can play during work not all of us have 5 jobs, 16 wifes, 20 kids and 19 dogs
DrDefault wrote: » Translation: I don’t have a full time job, a significant other, nor a higher education I’m pursuing. I sit at home all day and do nothing.
Ravicus wrote: » Kionashi wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Dhaiwon wrote: » @Sathrago Buying the gear only works if you craft only to get the gear. For someone whom the crafting-aspect is the main-draw of the game, that is not going to work. you can only max 2 professions of the same type with a character. if you decide to be a processor, even if you own a fh, you cant craft. you can craft with an alt for sure, but maybe only 2 things? since you cant process everything. so if you want to have 4-5 alts so that you can craft every single thing in the game, you still need other players because you can only process 2 things on your fh. also, we dont know how many alt you can have... so people complaining that they wont have access to every artisan profession because they dont have a fh makes no sense because you wouldn't have access to them anyways even if you had a fh...and im glad it is like this. i dont want to feel like im forced to spend 39475475 hours in different professions to master everything to craft everything, like in new world or eso. and then no one will sell anything at some point because everybody can make everything. also, you can do up to t3 in everything wether you have a fh or not. so there you go, you can still farm your tomatoes. The issue is not that I wont be able to make everything, If Im a farmer I don't mind I can't make boats...but at least since I decided I want to be farmer I want to be able to plant every seed, not only T3 and lower seeds... you can, just be a citizen of a freehold
Kionashi wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Dhaiwon wrote: » @Sathrago Buying the gear only works if you craft only to get the gear. For someone whom the crafting-aspect is the main-draw of the game, that is not going to work. you can only max 2 professions of the same type with a character. if you decide to be a processor, even if you own a fh, you cant craft. you can craft with an alt for sure, but maybe only 2 things? since you cant process everything. so if you want to have 4-5 alts so that you can craft every single thing in the game, you still need other players because you can only process 2 things on your fh. also, we dont know how many alt you can have... so people complaining that they wont have access to every artisan profession because they dont have a fh makes no sense because you wouldn't have access to them anyways even if you had a fh...and im glad it is like this. i dont want to feel like im forced to spend 39475475 hours in different professions to master everything to craft everything, like in new world or eso. and then no one will sell anything at some point because everybody can make everything. also, you can do up to t3 in everything wether you have a fh or not. so there you go, you can still farm your tomatoes. The issue is not that I wont be able to make everything, If Im a farmer I don't mind I can't make boats...but at least since I decided I want to be farmer I want to be able to plant every seed, not only T3 and lower seeds...
Depraved wrote: » Dhaiwon wrote: » @Sathrago Buying the gear only works if you craft only to get the gear. For someone whom the crafting-aspect is the main-draw of the game, that is not going to work. you can only max 2 professions of the same type with a character. if you decide to be a processor, even if you own a fh, you cant craft. you can craft with an alt for sure, but maybe only 2 things? since you cant process everything. so if you want to have 4-5 alts so that you can craft every single thing in the game, you still need other players because you can only process 2 things on your fh. also, we dont know how many alt you can have... so people complaining that they wont have access to every artisan profession because they dont have a fh makes no sense because you wouldn't have access to them anyways even if you had a fh...and im glad it is like this. i dont want to feel like im forced to spend 39475475 hours in different professions to master everything to craft everything, like in new world or eso. and then no one will sell anything at some point because everybody can make everything. also, you can do up to t3 in everything wether you have a fh or not. so there you go, you can still farm your tomatoes.
Dhaiwon wrote: » @Sathrago Buying the gear only works if you craft only to get the gear. For someone whom the crafting-aspect is the main-draw of the game, that is not going to work.
DrDefault wrote: » So you sit at home all day and do nothing, just say that. Kek
Liniker wrote: » DrDefault wrote: » So you sit at home all day and do nothing, just say that. Kek If I want to, yes, because I can afford to do that, why are you worried about what other people do with their free time tho? lmao
Kionashi wrote: » Ravicus wrote: » Kionashi wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Dhaiwon wrote: » @Sathrago Buying the gear only works if you craft only to get the gear. For someone whom the crafting-aspect is the main-draw of the game, that is not going to work. you can only max 2 professions of the same type with a character. if you decide to be a processor, even if you own a fh, you cant craft. you can craft with an alt for sure, but maybe only 2 things? since you cant process everything. so if you want to have 4-5 alts so that you can craft every single thing in the game, you still need other players because you can only process 2 things on your fh. also, we dont know how many alt you can have... so people complaining that they wont have access to every artisan profession because they dont have a fh makes no sense because you wouldn't have access to them anyways even if you had a fh...and im glad it is like this. i dont want to feel like im forced to spend 39475475 hours in different professions to master everything to craft everything, like in new world or eso. and then no one will sell anything at some point because everybody can make everything. also, you can do up to t3 in everything wether you have a fh or not. so there you go, you can still farm your tomatoes. The issue is not that I wont be able to make everything, If Im a farmer I don't mind I can't make boats...but at least since I decided I want to be farmer I want to be able to plant every seed, not only T3 and lower seeds... you can, just be a citizen of a freehold I don't think being a citizen of a node would help me, If In order to plant T5 T6 seeds I need a freehold, I don't see how to being a citizen of a node will help me because I wont be able to plant those anyways unless I can outbid all the big guilds in the node, which is virtually impossible. (btw Im assuming farming is processing, if that's not the case bear with me and assume Im talking about ingots or something). btw Im talking as a dedicated artisan, I know I can sell 100000000 T3 tomatoes and buy all the gear I want, but part of the enjoyment of being a dedicated artisan is the progression path and I don't want to be robbed of the experience of improving my farm because some nerds really need all the freeholds in the node to compete in an economic war against other nerds in the other side of the planet. And again, Im not saying I should have a freehold, no, I don't mind that aspect being exclusive to dedicated players, but I simply don't see why there is the need to cap the progression of some artisan professions exclusively for those nerds. ,
Boneshatter wrote: » George_Black wrote: » it's designed for scarcity in order to bring people together, I would add. How many times people in ESO have said to me "can I craft something for you?" and I "said no. I can craft anything I want. Everybody that played for more than 2 months can craft anything they want." And that was it. No real need for true interaction. I believe you're missing the point of what people are asking for. I agree that someone being able to level all professions/artisan skills on one character is bad. I strongly dislike that in FFXiv. The thing is, nobody is asking for that here. I think we can all agree that the current design of 2 maxed skills and they have to be in the same tree is good design. What people ARE asking for is to let people pick whichever two they want and have a realistic chance of being able to max them out. As it currently stands anything in the processing tree is out of touch for the majority of the player base. That includes MMO staples like cooking and alchemy along with the shiny new animal husbandry that so many are excited about. I think people are confusing "access to all but maintaining the 2 max" with "access to all at the same time".
George_Black wrote: » it's designed for scarcity in order to bring people together, I would add. How many times people in ESO have said to me "can I craft something for you?" and I "said no. I can craft anything I want. Everybody that played for more than 2 months can craft anything they want." And that was it. No real need for true interaction.
DrDefault wrote: » Good thing you sit at home all day man, this game is made for people like you.
Liniker wrote: » DrDefault wrote: » Good thing you sit at home all day man, this game is made for people like you. yea it's awesome to finally have an MMO to look forward to
GeneratedPotato wrote: » Kionashi wrote: » Ravicus wrote: » Kionashi wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Dhaiwon wrote: » @Sathrago Buying the gear only works if you craft only to get the gear. For someone whom the crafting-aspect is the main-draw of the game, that is not going to work. you can only max 2 professions of the same type with a character. if you decide to be a processor, even if you own a fh, you cant craft. you can craft with an alt for sure, but maybe only 2 things? since you cant process everything. so if you want to have 4-5 alts so that you can craft every single thing in the game, you still need other players because you can only process 2 things on your fh. also, we dont know how many alt you can have... so people complaining that they wont have access to every artisan profession because they dont have a fh makes no sense because you wouldn't have access to them anyways even if you had a fh...and im glad it is like this. i dont want to feel like im forced to spend 39475475 hours in different professions to master everything to craft everything, like in new world or eso. and then no one will sell anything at some point because everybody can make everything. also, you can do up to t3 in everything wether you have a fh or not. so there you go, you can still farm your tomatoes. The issue is not that I wont be able to make everything, If Im a farmer I don't mind I can't make boats...but at least since I decided I want to be farmer I want to be able to plant every seed, not only T3 and lower seeds... you can, just be a citizen of a freehold I don't think being a citizen of a node would help me, If In order to plant T5 T6 seeds I need a freehold, I don't see how to being a citizen of a node will help me because I wont be able to plant those anyways unless I can outbid all the big guilds in the node, which is virtually impossible. (btw Im assuming farming is processing, if that's not the case bear with me and assume Im talking about ingots or something). btw Im talking as a dedicated artisan, I know I can sell 100000000 T3 tomatoes and buy all the gear I want, but part of the enjoyment of being a dedicated artisan is the progression path and I don't want to be robbed of the experience of improving my farm because some nerds really need all the freeholds in the node to compete in an economic war against other nerds in the other side of the planet. And again, Im not saying I should have a freehold, no, I don't mind that aspect being exclusive to dedicated players, but I simply don't see why there is the need to cap the progression of some artisan professions exclusively for those nerds. , Couldn't you sell those '100000000' T3 tomatoes, And use the money to try and get a freehold? And from that point on try to maintain it by planting higher tier seeds?
Ravicus wrote: » Man, I can't handle all these walls of text. Kionashi wrote: » Ravicus wrote: » Kionashi wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Dhaiwon wrote: » @Sathrago Buying the gear only works if you craft only to get the gear. For someone whom the crafting-aspect is the main-draw of the game, that is not going to work. you can only max 2 professions of the same type with a character. if you decide to be a processor, even if you own a fh, you cant craft. you can craft with an alt for sure, but maybe only 2 things? since you cant process everything. so if you want to have 4-5 alts so that you can craft every single thing in the game, you still need other players because you can only process 2 things on your fh. also, we dont know how many alt you can have... so people complaining that they wont have access to every artisan profession because they dont have a fh makes no sense because you wouldn't have access to them anyways even if you had a fh...and im glad it is like this. i dont want to feel like im forced to spend 39475475 hours in different professions to master everything to craft everything, like in new world or eso. and then no one will sell anything at some point because everybody can make everything. also, you can do up to t3 in everything wether you have a fh or not. so there you go, you can still farm your tomatoes. The issue is not that I wont be able to make everything, If Im a farmer I don't mind I can't make boats...but at least since I decided I want to be farmer I want to be able to plant every seed, not only T3 and lower seeds... you can, just be a citizen of a freehold I don't think being a citizen of a node would help me, If In order to plant T5 T6 seeds I need a freehold, I don't see how to being a citizen of a node will help me because I wont be able to plant those anyways unless I can outbid all the big guilds in the node, which is virtually impossible. (btw Im assuming farming is processing, if that's not the case bear with me and assume Im talking about ingots or something). btw Im talking as a dedicated artisan, I know I can sell 100000000 T3 tomatoes and buy all the gear I want, but part of the enjoyment of being a dedicated artisan is the progression path and I don't want to be robbed of the experience of improving my farm because some nerds really need all the freeholds in the node to compete in an economic war against other nerds in the other side of the planet. And again, Im not saying I should have a freehold, no, I don't mind that aspect being exclusive to dedicated players, but I simply don't see why there is the need to cap the progression of some artisan professions exclusively for those nerds. , Well the only way other than becoming a citizen and wanting to have a great big tomatoe garden is to own your own node then. And to do that you will need to be able to pay for it, and to defend it. There is no way that you will be able to be a peaceful tomato farmer playing solo. So unless you group and get a node, or join a group with a node, then you probably are going to have a hard time in this game. Its not going to change.
Kionashi wrote: » GeneratedPotato wrote: » Kionashi wrote: » Ravicus wrote: » Kionashi wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Dhaiwon wrote: » @Sathrago Buying the gear only works if you craft only to get the gear. For someone whom the crafting-aspect is the main-draw of the game, that is not going to work. you can only max 2 professions of the same type with a character. if you decide to be a processor, even if you own a fh, you cant craft. you can craft with an alt for sure, but maybe only 2 things? since you cant process everything. so if you want to have 4-5 alts so that you can craft every single thing in the game, you still need other players because you can only process 2 things on your fh. also, we dont know how many alt you can have... so people complaining that they wont have access to every artisan profession because they dont have a fh makes no sense because you wouldn't have access to them anyways even if you had a fh...and im glad it is like this. i dont want to feel like im forced to spend 39475475 hours in different professions to master everything to craft everything, like in new world or eso. and then no one will sell anything at some point because everybody can make everything. also, you can do up to t3 in everything wether you have a fh or not. so there you go, you can still farm your tomatoes. The issue is not that I wont be able to make everything, If Im a farmer I don't mind I can't make boats...but at least since I decided I want to be farmer I want to be able to plant every seed, not only T3 and lower seeds... you can, just be a citizen of a freehold I don't think being a citizen of a node would help me, If In order to plant T5 T6 seeds I need a freehold, I don't see how to being a citizen of a node will help me because I wont be able to plant those anyways unless I can outbid all the big guilds in the node, which is virtually impossible. (btw Im assuming farming is processing, if that's not the case bear with me and assume Im talking about ingots or something). btw Im talking as a dedicated artisan, I know I can sell 100000000 T3 tomatoes and buy all the gear I want, but part of the enjoyment of being a dedicated artisan is the progression path and I don't want to be robbed of the experience of improving my farm because some nerds really need all the freeholds in the node to compete in an economic war against other nerds in the other side of the planet. And again, Im not saying I should have a freehold, no, I don't mind that aspect being exclusive to dedicated players, but I simply don't see why there is the need to cap the progression of some artisan professions exclusively for those nerds. , Couldn't you sell those '100000000' T3 tomatoes, And use the money to try and get a freehold? And from that point on try to maintain it by planting higher tier seeds? Not really because by the time I get to sell those 100000000 T3 tomatoes someone with way more free time probably already sold 3 times that amount and is sitting on a bigger heap of gold to outbid me for the fh. Ravicus wrote: » Man, I can't handle all these walls of text. Kionashi wrote: » Ravicus wrote: » Kionashi wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Dhaiwon wrote: » @Sathrago Buying the gear only works if you craft only to get the gear. For someone whom the crafting-aspect is the main-draw of the game, that is not going to work. you can only max 2 professions of the same type with a character. if you decide to be a processor, even if you own a fh, you cant craft. you can craft with an alt for sure, but maybe only 2 things? since you cant process everything. so if you want to have 4-5 alts so that you can craft every single thing in the game, you still need other players because you can only process 2 things on your fh. also, we dont know how many alt you can have... so people complaining that they wont have access to every artisan profession because they dont have a fh makes no sense because you wouldn't have access to them anyways even if you had a fh...and im glad it is like this. i dont want to feel like im forced to spend 39475475 hours in different professions to master everything to craft everything, like in new world or eso. and then no one will sell anything at some point because everybody can make everything. also, you can do up to t3 in everything wether you have a fh or not. so there you go, you can still farm your tomatoes. The issue is not that I wont be able to make everything, If Im a farmer I don't mind I can't make boats...but at least since I decided I want to be farmer I want to be able to plant every seed, not only T3 and lower seeds... you can, just be a citizen of a freehold I don't think being a citizen of a node would help me, If In order to plant T5 T6 seeds I need a freehold, I don't see how to being a citizen of a node will help me because I wont be able to plant those anyways unless I can outbid all the big guilds in the node, which is virtually impossible. (btw Im assuming farming is processing, if that's not the case bear with me and assume Im talking about ingots or something). btw Im talking as a dedicated artisan, I know I can sell 100000000 T3 tomatoes and buy all the gear I want, but part of the enjoyment of being a dedicated artisan is the progression path and I don't want to be robbed of the experience of improving my farm because some nerds really need all the freeholds in the node to compete in an economic war against other nerds in the other side of the planet. And again, Im not saying I should have a freehold, no, I don't mind that aspect being exclusive to dedicated players, but I simply don't see why there is the need to cap the progression of some artisan professions exclusively for those nerds. , Well the only way other than becoming a citizen and wanting to have a great big tomatoe garden is to own your own node then. And to do that you will need to be able to pay for it, and to defend it. There is no way that you will be able to be a peaceful tomato farmer playing solo. So unless you group and get a node, or join a group with a node, then you probably are going to have a hard time in this game. Its not going to change. That's why Im suggesting keep higher tier processing out of the freeholds! I don't really want a freehold!, I just want a T6 tomato farm :'(
Abarat wrote: » Dygz wrote: » It does depend on what you mean by “play”. LOL, if you only gave Intrepid a fraction of the leeway you give yourself.
Kionashi wrote: » I mean if freeholds are an exclusive feature that only will be accessible for a tiny percentage of the player base, I think it would be pointless for a casual player or a player who simply has little game time to even attempt to begin on the processing artisan paths at all.... I mean why even bother if you are going to hit a dead end eventually? Is not like crafting because if you need T-5 ingredients you can simply save up money to eventually buy it, or organizing with a group to attempt the World boss that drops that item...that's something everyone can do...of course hardcore players would have it easier but a casual players with time a patience will get there eventually too. But again because the Freeholds are such an exclusive commodity is fair to assume all freeholds will be owned at all times by the sweatiest nerds on the server who can afford to play 12h a day which allows them to outbid anyone who dares to attempt to get a freehold, basically keeping everybody else literally unable to access T5-6 processing stations. No amount of time or dedication will allow a gamer dad with 5 wives and 10 dogs to outbid someone who simply has more play time than him. So considering the system as we can see it right now, if you know you only will be able to play on weekends, or a couple hours per day, is there even a point on starting on the processing artisan paths at all? I mean sure, you can get T1 to T4 items which is nice, but eventually you will hit max level and will need T5, T6 gear to play endgame content so being able to make those low tier items wont get you any further on your artisan path. Not to mention all those feelbad moments of "hey I got this ultra rare drop from this endgame boss...but I don't have a freehold so I can't make anything with it even though I decided to dedicate myself to an artisan path that uses this kind of items, I guess I'll sell it or whatever". At this point you are no longer an artisan because the content you will do won't give you anything to progress on your artisan path. But yeah, unless something changes I think the best strategy for most players would be to avoid all processing paths and focus on crafting/ gathering since those would allow you to reach the endgame without being limited for not being part of the 10% of the population that can get a freehold.
Ravicus wrote: » Well thats not gonna happen. Keep banging your head on the wall to see if it helps though.
SK_Kingslayer wrote: » Kionashi wrote: » I mean if freeholds are an exclusive feature that only will be accessible for a tiny percentage of the player base, I think it would be pointless for a casual player or a player who simply has little game time to even attempt to begin on the processing artisan paths at all.... I mean why even bother if you are going to hit a dead end eventually? Is not like crafting because if you need T-5 ingredients you can simply save up money to eventually buy it, or organizing with a group to attempt the World boss that drops that item...that's something everyone can do...of course hardcore players would have it easier but a casual players with time a patience will get there eventually too. But again because the Freeholds are such an exclusive commodity is fair to assume all freeholds will be owned at all times by the sweatiest nerds on the server who can afford to play 12h a day which allows them to outbid anyone who dares to attempt to get a freehold, basically keeping everybody else literally unable to access T5-6 processing stations. No amount of time or dedication will allow a gamer dad with 5 wives and 10 dogs to outbid someone who simply has more play time than him. So considering the system as we can see it right now, if you know you only will be able to play on weekends, or a couple hours per day, is there even a point on starting on the processing artisan paths at all? I mean sure, you can get T1 to T4 items which is nice, but eventually you will hit max level and will need T5, T6 gear to play endgame content so being able to make those low tier items wont get you any further on your artisan path. Not to mention all those feelbad moments of "hey I got this ultra rare drop from this endgame boss...but I don't have a freehold so I can't make anything with it even though I decided to dedicate myself to an artisan path that uses this kind of items, I guess I'll sell it or whatever". At this point you are no longer an artisan because the content you will do won't give you anything to progress on your artisan path. But yeah, unless something changes I think the best strategy for most players would be to avoid all processing paths and focus on crafting/ gathering since those would allow you to reach the endgame without being limited for not being part of the 10% of the population that can get a freehold. I mean first of its kinda wild to assume that only a tiny percentage will have access to to freeholds. Most players will be in a guild or family and will have access to one some way ot another. Also it can change every month so maybe you dont have one today but u can have one next month. If you want to persue crafting is pretty subjective. I probably wont that much because im a pvp player. Ill maybe do some animal husbandry cuz its cool but not planning on being a master crafter. If you enjoy crafting you should obviously focus on this because its for sure gonna be a good way to earn money and also give you extra social credit. Lets say your the only T6 Master crafter in this city. No one will ever harass you because then theyre basically locked out of t6 gear or its way harder for them to get. Theres definitly reasons but it depends what you enjoy i would say.
Kionashi wrote: » I mean if freeholds are an exclusive feature that only will be accessible for a tiny percentage of the player base, I think it would be pointless for a casual player or a player who simply has little game time to even attempt to begin on the processing artisan paths at all...
Sathrago wrote: » Why cant those players just save money up and purchase the gear with the money they make from low-to-mid level processing? They still have housing options, they still have access to the artisan skill, they just failed to beat the competition out when it came to having access to a freehold.
Sathrago wrote: » Do you think everyone should be able to do every artisan skill to max too? Perhaps the limit there is to give more value and something to achieve in the game that means more than a little flash of light and a "you did it!" at the bottom of your screen?
George_Black wrote: » There are no "solo" quests in L2. You go in there alone you get PKed or your mobs stolen. You won't complete the quest. Don't argue semantics or make hypothetical scenarios.
George_Black wrote: » For a couple years now you side with the L2 way of playing an mmo, yet say "dont exclude the casuals". If an mmo engineers casual friendly systems, then the effort and thrill of group, effort can be achieved by people that don't have to try hard, and all the depth of the mmo goes out the window. People will complain in the end. Just like the vast silent hordes of casuals will enjoy the video game, happily falling through the cracks. But to sit down and start the designs taking in consideration the people who can't achieve certain things, will lead to the only solution of dampening down the systems. You are contradicting yourself. You can be at both sides and say "I hear you", "I hear you too". You are lying to one of them.
Depraved wrote: » the fh will be like an epic jewel, you will give one to a cp, then the next one to another cp etc.
Depraved wrote: » yeah but your guild members will be spread out in different node types, and there will also be people from other guilds, even your enemies, in those nodes. so what happens when your node declares war on another node? now you cant attack it because you would be attacking your own guild, and you cant really defend it because node faction > guild faction. its like territory wars in l2. then the drama starts and people leave the guild
