Should most players simply avoid all processing artisan paths?

iccer wrote: »

yawn

Except I could do all of that stuff in Archeage, without being in the best guild. And I'm basing my expectations off of that game.

you surely can technically try to do a legendary world boss in AoC being in a worse or small guild - doesn't mean you won't get steamrolled by the better guild because you 100% will

that's not speculation that's how it is, there are different types of content for different groups and types of players

legendary stuff, best raids, world bosses, freeholds, flying mounts, castles, T4 and T4 ranks in professions, best pvp season rewards, augments from highest rank in religion/social organization, access to relics, mayorship, the list goes on and on

those are all top tier content for the 10% most dedicated players and the best guilds, this was always the case ever since AoC was made by Steven, a guild leader that came from L2 and AA

you can either accept that or keep spamming your frustration in the forums for the next 20 years instead of moving on to another game you will enjoy

Liniker wrote: »

iccer wrote: »

yawn

Except I could do all of that stuff in Archeage, without being in the best guild. And I'm basing my expectations off of that game.

you surely can technically try to do a legendary world boss in AoC being in a worse or small guild - doesn't mean you won't get steamrolled by the better guild because you 100% will

Oh I do understand that. It's just that you're saying how certain content will be limited to only the top guilds. If that really is the case, then it's dogshit design, simple as that.

So it's just like the freehold system. You technically could get one, but you really won't get one.

Again, limiting so much stuff away from regular players, to only the top guild sweatlords, isn't a good design. It's the freeholds, world bosses, top tier processing and crafting, then it's going to end up being the open-world dungeons as well, etc. etc. the list goes on (everything else you mentioned). So what is actually left for a normal player to do and achieve in this game? Is their only goal just to populate the world, so your big guild doesn't feel alone on the server? Is their only purpose to just be cannon fodder for you?

Fantmx

I'm still looking for the person that is asking to be able to max everything on their own.

iccer wrote: »

So what is actually left for a normal player to do and achieve in this game?

That's where the "game is not for everyone" comes in.

If you want a game where you can do all the content and have access to the best rewards as a normal player AoC is 100% not for you, it's so simple yet so complicated for people that are attracted/invested in the game to accept

you as a normal player, or a player that refuses to be in a guild, or even a solo player:

can still do all the leveling take part in world events with narrative system, do arenas, pay people to help you with caravans and merchants ships, or be a caravan bandit or defender yourself be a bounty hunter, level all the gathering professions including taming, mining, herbalism etc you can be a trader focusing on economics, be a mercenary, own a house or apartment and decorate it, be a citizen, participate in node sieges, node wars, etc

again, the point is: different stuff to do for different types of people

iccer wrote: »

Again, limiting so much stuff away from regular players, to only the top guild sweatlords, isn't a good design.

Yea well, not good game design for you, unfortunately you are not the one in charge, and from my perspective, it's refreshing to finally see a game that has content for people like me that want to no-life a game

there are enough games in the market and games announced that will make most casuals/solos happy

those are not for me tho, but I don't go on their forums ask for changes or to say their design is bad just because I'm not the target audience

Dhaiwon

Liniker wrote: »

iccer wrote: »

yawn

Except I could do all of that stuff in Archeage, without being in the best guild. And I'm basing my expectations off of that game.

you surely can technically try to do a legendary world boss in AoC being in a worse or small guild - doesn't mean you won't get steamrolled by the better guild because you 100% will

that's not speculation that's how it is, there are different types of content for different groups and types of players

legendary stuff, best raids, world bosses, freeholds, flying mounts, castles, T4 and T4 ranks in professions, best pvp season rewards, augments from highest rank in religion/social organization, access to relics, mayorship, the list goes on and on

those are all top tier content for the 10% most dedicated players and the best guilds, this was always the case ever since AoC was made by Steven, a guild leader that came from L2 and AA

you can either accept that or keep spamming your frustration in the forums for the next 20 years instead of moving on to another game you will enjoy

Let's say you are right. And lets say you are able to communicate this clearly and end up filling a Server with 100% sweatlords, because most of the other players went to, say Palia or Palia 2.
And, over time, as the server settles in 10% (or maybe 20% due to shakeups) of them actually are able to enjoy the full game.

Do you honestly believe that the losing 90-80%, or at least the losing bottom half of those players will remain on that server for long? Do you really believe that players that are that dedicated and competitive will remain in such a no-win situation for long?

Ayeveegaming1

Dhaiwon wrote: »

Liniker wrote: »

iccer wrote: »

yawn

Except I could do all of that stuff in Archeage, without being in the best guild. And I'm basing my expectations off of that game.

you surely can technically try to do a legendary world boss in AoC being in a worse or small guild - doesn't mean you won't get steamrolled by the better guild because you 100% will

that's not speculation that's how it is, there are different types of content for different groups and types of players

legendary stuff, best raids, world bosses, freeholds, flying mounts, castles, T4 and T4 ranks in professions, best pvp season rewards, augments from highest rank in religion/social organization, access to relics, mayorship, the list goes on and on

those are all top tier content for the 10% most dedicated players and the best guilds, this was always the case ever since AoC was made by Steven, a guild leader that came from L2 and AA

you can either accept that or keep spamming your frustration in the forums for the next 20 years instead of moving on to another game you will enjoy

Let's say you are right. And lets say you are able to communicate this clearly and end up filling a Server with 100% sweatlords, because most of the other players went to, say Palia or Palia 2.
And, over time, as the server settles in 10% (or maybe 20% due to shakeups) of them actually are able to enjoy the full game.

Do you honestly believe that the losing 90-80%, or at least the losing bottom half of those players will remain on that server for long? Do you really believe that players that are that dedicated and competitive will remain in such a no-win situation for long?

Let's say you are right. And lets say you are able to communicate this clearly and end up filling a Server with 100% sweatlords, because most of the other players went to, say Palia or Palia 2.

"And, over time, as the server settles in 10% (or maybe 20% due to shakeups) of them actually are able to enjoy the full game." Hyperbole and unsupported. This is your opinion of course, but its not fact.
"Let's say you are right. And lets say you are able to communicate this clearly and end up filling a Server with 100% sweatlords, because most of the other players went to, say Palia or Palia 2. " Fearmongering and doomsaying, again its your opinion and not fact.

Dhaiwon wrote: »

Do you honestly believe that the losing 90-80%, or at least the losing bottom half of those players will remain on that server for long? Do you really believe that players that are that dedicated and competitive will remain in such a no-win situation for long?

Again, these are made-up scenarios by people frustrated with the design no point in engaging

As someone pointed out in another thread:

There are casual players even in EVO Online, there were casual players in L2, AA - and every other game that was not catered to casual players

There will be casuals, solos, and plenty of "normal players" in AoC that enjoy meaningful content and are OK with no participation rewards, and limited content.

If you are a casual/solo player and are unhappy because you want a freehold, a castle, mayorship, you simply need to either move on and go play something else or just accept that you do not represent all the other solo/casual players and the game won't change to cater to you

Dhaiwon

Ravicus wrote: »

"And, over time, as the server settles in 10% (or maybe 20% due to shakeups) of them actually are able to enjoy the full game." Hyperbole and unsupported. This is your opinion of course, but its not fact.
"Let's say you are right. And lets say you are able to communicate this clearly and end up filling a Server with 100% sweatlords, because most of the other players went to, say Palia or Palia 2. " Fearmongering and doomsaying, again its your opinion and not fact.

In my defense it was @Liniker that said for casuals to go to Palia, and I did base it on his % on how many the endgame content was for. And yes, I am twisting it REALLY hard.

Liniker wrote: »

There will be casuals, solos, and plenty of "normal players" in AoC that enjoy meaningful content and are OK with no participation rewards, and limited content.

There will most definitely be those players. Whether there will be plenty of them probably depends on how you view plenty. As one of those casual players in EVE online, I would argue that at this point in time, EVE is fairly subtle about it's limitations on ordinary players, which I believe is part of the reason they are as successful as they are.

Liniker wrote: »

iccer wrote: »

So what is actually left for a normal player to do and achieve in this game?

That's where the "game is not for everyone" comes in.

If you want a game where you can do all the content and have access to the best rewards as a normal player AoC is 100% not for you, it's so simple yet so complicated for people that are attracted/invested in the game to accept

you as a normal player, or a player that refuses to be in a guild, or even a solo player:

can still do all the leveling take part in world events with narrative system, do arenas, pay people to help you with caravans and merchants ships, or be a caravan bandit or defender yourself be a bounty hunter, level all the gathering professions including taming, mining, herbalism etc you can be a trader focusing on economics, be a mercenary, own a house or apartment and decorate it, be a citizen, participate in node sieges, node wars, etc

again, the point is: different stuff to do for different types of people

iccer wrote: »

Again, limiting so much stuff away from regular players, to only the top guild sweatlords, isn't a good design.

Yea well, not good game design for you, unfortunately you are not the one in charge

I'm not asking for them to make a game where I can achieve all of that as a normal player. Realistically without great dedication, numbers, and organization you can't do all of that (which means you need a big guild, that is managed well).

But what I am wondering, is whether there's really anything of value I can access as a regular player? I could ignore 8 out of 10 things, because I'm being realistic about not being able to achieve it all, but can I at least focus on those other 2 with my smaller guild? Apparently not, since everything is only accessible to top guilds.

The only reason you are in favor of all of this, and why you don't think it's a dogshit design, is because you are the leader of a large guild, that will inevitably be able to achieve those things. You've never put yourself in shoes of a regular player, who isn't a part of a top guild (let alone not being its leader). You don't care about any regular player, because of you are being selfish in a way. You only care about your own experience. You will own the best mount, you will have the best gear, or what not.
If let's say 35% of active players could achieve the same stuff, owning all of that stuff just wouldn't feel as good to you, because it wouldn't feel as valuable.

Again, I'm not against there being content aimed only at the top guilds, what I am against, is so many things being that way...too many at this point that it feels like there's nothing left for regular players to achieve.

And I'm not arguing from a casual/solo perspective. Even a let's say 50 man guild, just wouldn't be achieve that stuff, besides getting a freehold and getting someone to top tier processing/crafting.

Ayeveegaming1

"In my defense it was @Liniker that said for casuals to go to Palia, and I did base it on his % on how many the endgame content was for. And yes, I am twisting it REALLY hard."
Right, I understand that. He meant in the sense that instead of trying to change a games core value theyt might be better off there instead of wasting their time. People should read what the game is about before becomeing invested in it emotionally or financially.

SirChancelot wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

DrDefault wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

the gamer dad with 5 wives isnt gonna get most things in games where there is competition

Translation: I don’t have a full time job, a significant other, nor a higher education I’m pursuing. I sit at home all day and do nothing.

Translation: im a whiner with victim mentality who needs daddy to fix my life for me and other people to adapt me and my whims.

i actually have all those things, but i can play at work. in fact, im working right now

i cant play 10-15 hours everyday like i could before at some point, i can play maybe 3 hours a day with the rest of the time playing semi afk at work, and and maybe i can play a little bit more on some days and you never see me complaining here that casuals wont get to the top or that i wont get a fh, etc.

stop crying

Bruh
You don't get to talk trash and then say haha I get to play at work. -_-

That's really not any better than saying haha my daddy pays for my sub.

i have to afk 90% of the time tho T_T

casual time, hardcore challenge ;3

now imagine someone who sits at home doing nothing playing 15 hours a day...that person is putting time and effort in the game, time he could be spending doing something else. so if he gets to the top, he earned it. he sacrificed somethign else to get there and then people come here and cry and complain and want that person to not be rewarded because its elitist or whatever bs. they dont wanna put time in the game and achieve the same thing as someone who does.

iccer wrote: »

Liniker wrote: »

I'll keep saying it: Palia is the game you guys are looking for, not AoC

avoid future frustration because soon you will find out that high tier crafting is even more limited, you will find out open world bosses and legendary bosses will be best-guild-only content, and you will find out that ashes is not for everyone

this is the reality: if you never played L2, AA, EVE, or you don't like those games, there is a gigantic chance that you don't know what to expect from AoC and you probably won't enjoy it

yawn

Except I could do all of that stuff in Archeage, without being in the best guild. And I'm basing my expectations off of that game.

aa closed but l2 didnt 8D

Depraved wrote: »

iccer wrote: »

Liniker wrote: »

I'll keep saying it: Palia is the game you guys are looking for, not AoC

avoid future frustration because soon you will find out that high tier crafting is even more limited, you will find out open world bosses and legendary bosses will be best-guild-only content, and you will find out that ashes is not for everyone

this is the reality: if you never played L2, AA, EVE, or you don't like those games, there is a gigantic chance that you don't know what to expect from AoC and you probably won't enjoy it

yawn

Except I could do all of that stuff in Archeage, without being in the best guild. And I'm basing my expectations off of that game.

aa closed but l2 didnt 8D

Truly spoken by an individual who knows nothing about the game, and why it failed.

RocketFarmer

My interpretation of all of the overreaction to the Free Hold showcase and a just a brief mention of the processing system is that people are champing at the bit for Alpha 2. And I suspect that will be true for each shiny thing they showcase until Alpha 2.

As for casuals, given what AoC is, grouping up is almost mandatory if you want to get what you want out of the game. That may also include forming guilds as companies or mercenaries that sell their services to other guilds. Establishing “market days” would be a way for a node to engage with casuals as it establishes clear expectations of when and where for the casual player to plan around. A similar approach could be done with Free Holds and access to processing. Other side of the coin is it also provides time to go to other nodes to gather research, explore, do trade missions, obtain valuable certificates, etc. Bottom line: I think Intrepid is expecting the players to invent and organize these social systems/interactions rather than build something that spoon feeds its players.

Alpha 2 will help determine which parts or AoC are completely broken, which just need modification and which work. That’s why results from Alpha 2 play are much more valuable than forum opinions, mine included.

iccer wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

iccer wrote: »

Liniker wrote: »

I'll keep saying it: Palia is the game you guys are looking for, not AoC

avoid future frustration because soon you will find out that high tier crafting is even more limited, you will find out open world bosses and legendary bosses will be best-guild-only content, and you will find out that ashes is not for everyone

this is the reality: if you never played L2, AA, EVE, or you don't like those games, there is a gigantic chance that you don't know what to expect from AoC and you probably won't enjoy it

yawn

Except I could do all of that stuff in Archeage, without being in the best guild. And I'm basing my expectations off of that game.

aa closed but l2 didnt 8D

Truly spoken by an individual who knows nothing about the game, and why it failed.

truly spoken by an individual who cant read.

Depraved wrote: »

iccer wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

iccer wrote: »

Liniker wrote: »

I'll keep saying it: Palia is the game you guys are looking for, not AoC

avoid future frustration because soon you will find out that high tier crafting is even more limited, you will find out open world bosses and legendary bosses will be best-guild-only content, and you will find out that ashes is not for everyone

this is the reality: if you never played L2, AA, EVE, or you don't like those games, there is a gigantic chance that you don't know what to expect from AoC and you probably won't enjoy it

yawn

Except I could do all of that stuff in Archeage, without being in the best guild. And I'm basing my expectations off of that game.

aa closed but l2 didnt 8D

Truly spoken by an individual who knows nothing about the game, and why it failed.

truly spoken by an individual who cant read.

Am I meant to know that you're being sarcastic? Because a lot of people actually say stuff like that, while being 100% serious.

it wasnt being sarcastic. i didnt say why archeage failed. i never said it was because of what you said or something else. i simply said it closed and l2 didnt. also just saying l2 is more p2w than aa

Depraved wrote: »

it wasnt being sarcastic. i didnt say why archeage failed. i never said it was because of what you said or something else. i simply said it closed and l2 didnt. also just saying l2 is more p2w than aa

Okay and what's the point of saying that? How is it relevant to anything?

I really can't tell when you are trolling, and when you are just being stupid for no reason.

iccer wrote: »

The only reason you are in favor of all of this, and why you don't think it's a dogshit design, is because you are the leader of a large guild, that will inevitably be able to achieve those things.

wrong, I played Mortal Online 2 as a solo player, I made some friends in-game and was been part of a small mercenary guild but ended up leaving - I played AA with a small group of friends, I played Dark age of Camelot solo for a long time

and in all of those games I couldn't do all the content, I wasn't able to achieve things I'd like I never got to own a house in MO2 because the day I finally farmed the gold and got the deed - I was murdered when I was out to place my deed and the house was stolen

Still, I wasn't crying in their forums saying those games would fail and they need to make changes to appeal to casuals and solos just because the games were made around guilds/tryhards and I wasn't in the mood to play like that,

as simple as that,

I don't think it's a dogshit design because it is not a dogshit design - you have a dogshit opinion on a design that many players, including casuals enjoy, and that's about it.