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PVP Flagging system wont work because of one single issue

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Comments

  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    They could essentially have corruption as a metric based on damage to non-combatant flagged players as an overall thing and not directly to current target. So even if you go around griefing you can still acquire corruption slowly over time and much more for the kill shot.
    This would require a complete overhaul of the system, because now you'd always be corrupted instead of flagged.

    Several different approaches and changes have been proposed in the past, but I doubt Steven will go for any of them. I think he'll just tune the current system in a way where even risking corruption is too much for the absolute majority of players.
  • NiKr wrote: »
    They could essentially have corruption as a metric based on damage to non-combatant flagged players as an overall thing and not directly to current target. So even if you go around griefing you can still acquire corruption slowly over time and much more for the kill shot.
    This would require a complete overhaul of the system, because now you'd always be corrupted instead of flagged.

    Several different approaches and changes have been proposed in the past, but I doubt Steven will go for any of them. I think he'll just tune the current system in a way where even risking corruption is too much for the absolute majority of players.

    Not necessarily.
    It's just a numerical value that accumulates based on if target is flagged or not. More damage you do, the more that value increases and contributed to corruption status. Pretty similar to how corruption tiers increase based off kill shots vs direct attacks to flagged targets over all.

    But you're right. He probably would just make it more severe. I've mentioned it myself in other threads. It will snowball into more severe penalisations to create a "safer" experience.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Not necessarily.
    It's just a numerical value that accumulates based on if target is flagged or not. More damage you do, the more that value increases and contributed to corruption status. Pretty similar to how corruption tiers increase based off kill shots vs direct attacks to flagged targets over all.
    I think I'm not understanding what you're suggesting. Do you want the attacker to not get corruption until the kill or for him to become red as soon as he attacks a green?

    Cause asap approach removes pvping or requires a full rework. And the other approach wouldn't stop parties, because they'll simply have designated attackers, who'll be ready for any PK-related punishments (what I already expect to happen in the current system).
  • TyraelTyrael Member, Settler, Kickstarter
    First post on the forums thanks!
  • HybridSRHybridSR Member
    edited November 2023
    Terrible thread, OP is clueless.

    Flagging system is basically same as L2's (which worked great) except it has many fail-safes (L2's system didn't have any).

    @ OP, stop posting and go back to your PvE MMO
  • NiKr wrote: »
    Not necessarily.
    It's just a numerical value that accumulates based on if target is flagged or not. More damage you do, the more that value increases and contributed to corruption status. Pretty similar to how corruption tiers increase based off kill shots vs direct attacks to flagged targets over all.
    I think I'm not understanding what you're suggesting. Do you want the attacker to not get corruption until the kill or for him to become red as soon as he attacks a green?

    Cause asap approach removes pvping or requires a full rework. And the other approach wouldn't stop parties, because they'll simply have designated attackers, who'll be ready for any PK-related punishments (what I already expect to happen in the current system).

    Oh my bad.

    - Think of it like a meter.
    - Every time the meter fills from doing "x" amount damage to non-combatants, it triggers a corruption tier.
    - Does not matter if it's the same target or a different one
    - This way regardless if you kill the target, you could still acquire corruption over time if not resolved via death
    or quests.
    - You can still go high tier corruption if you wanted.
    - kill shots would fill the meter in bigger chunks opposed to little nibbles from damage output accumulation

    No I wouldn't want an instant flagging for corruption. I'm more a no-flagging kind of player but I'm just enjoying the hypothetical theory crafting of the system.
  • NiKr wrote: »
    yeah that is what the wiki suggests, It seems wrong to me logically though. Could be due to various reasons like systems and tracking not implemented or lack of implementation goals. Technically yes, it's not corruption until someone dies regardless if they only contributed 10% of the damage and got the kill shot.

    Technically you could just do a bunch of dmg and let the boss wipe them lol
    I do think this will get changed because people will whine and complain for the exact reasons you feel this system is weird.

    But this is how it worked in L2 and Steven just yoinked that to Ashes.
    Given that wiki explicitly states that, I think Steven will try to keep the rule

    Green players killed by mobs (the mob deals the killing blow) do not flag attacking players as corrupt, but since the exact health of another player is not known (outside of the same party, raid, alliance, or guild), attackers run the risk of killing the player and becoming corrupt.[79]

    If Steven changes it, then the game could become even more PvE friendly on land, by making the corruption penalties stronger.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Lynexia wrote: »
    Sathrago wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    I'm still confused by what the single issue is, because, a lot of issues have been discussed and debunked.

    The issue is that OP got bored and needed something to do for the last few hours.

    you are right about the boredom but my concerns are real. AoC is gonna tank and it makes me sad

    Your failure to at least try makes me sad. Depressing really, this thread has zero entertainment value.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited November 2023
    PvP demographic is generally more niche than PvE demographic across many genre's and especially mmorpg's.

    I don’t actually believe this, I think PvPers are looking for a game to sink their teeth into and wherever they look there’s some PvE asshat going out of their way to fuck it up.

    I bet you there’s a large demographic of PvPers looking for a game called home and it’s much larger than anyone thinks.
  • HybridSRHybridSR Member
    edited November 2023
    Solvryn wrote: »
    I bet you there’s a large demographic of PvPers looking for a game called home and it’s much larger than anyone thinks.

    There's literally like a million players still playing L2 private servers. That's just old L2 players like me. Then there's the ton of people completely fed up with the current trash MMOs in the market.

    It's always funny to me when a carebear like OP who is obviously bored to death from playing his whatever trash MMO comes here to try to change this PvP MMO into another version of his carebear MMO that he currently hates. It's so ironic. Classic.
  • Oh yeah, one of those threads, i was kinda starting to miss the pure ludicrousness.
    6wtxguK.jpg
    Aren't we all sinners?
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Ashes is an RPG.
    PK alts should be OK. "Dishonour" should be tied to individual characters; not player accounts.
    But... we'll see what happens as we test Corruption.
  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited November 2023
    I`m still for most nodes to have the same systems but for couple of node types. Those types perhaps have a degree of corruption control tools managed by the mayor such as military node (middle or less pvp penalties) and financial (middle or higher pvp penalties)

    This would address the pvp and pve community to a certain extent is a few selected areas. just a thought.
  • Solvryn wrote: »
    PvP demographic is generally more niche than PvE demographic across many genre's and especially mmorpg's.

    I don’t actually believe this, I think PvPers are looking for a game to sink their teeth into and wherever they look there’s some PvE asshat going out of their way to fuck it up.

    I bet you there’s a large demographic of PvPers looking for a game called home and it’s much larger than anyone thinks.

    It's been this way for decades to be honest. Not as severe as it used to be in terms of the gap currently but it's true.

    PvE MMORPG's are much more common and have a majority of the mmorpg player base.
    PvP MMORPG'S are less which directly relates to them being more niche.

    If you want to get technical with the word niche depending on the many definitions it can refer, almost any game and its genre can be considered a niche.

    The market is just more saturated than it used to be but many PvE MMORPG'S (especially mainstream ones) are the go to for many.
  • Isth3reno1elseIsth3reno1else Member, Alpha Two
    Lynexia wrote: »
    Multiple characters.
    You could in theory have the dishonor be account bound but then people will just have 2 accounts.
    People will just have a character that is perma red just to gank whoever they want.... It will completely nullify the entire dishonor system... The game will be dead in 6 months without the ability to completely toggle off all PVP.

    I suggest learning about this game and the combat system before commenting on how it will not be effective. A lot of your concerns are laid out in the wiki.

    Also, Steven has said at launch there are roughly 100,000 people ready to play this game...the one without a toggle system for pvp that is already years in development. There are a lot of people interested in this type of game even if you are not.

    If you don't like this idea for a system perhaps you shouldn't play it and try something else that's more fun for you.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Is this todays preview, Joe Rogan?
  • Isth3reno1elseIsth3reno1else Member, Alpha Two
    Is this todays preview, Joe Rogan?

    I thought we had covered this but there's 2 posts on here and 1 on reddit all discussing the same thing, so maybe! It's good to make sure people know what they're getting into for the game.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Is this todays preview, Joe Rogan?

    I thought we had covered this but there's 2 posts on here and 1 on reddit all discussing the same thing, so maybe! It's good to make sure people know what they're getting into for the game.

    You should make a post about caravan class based abilities, from your stream with Vlahdus, and potentially other aspects of the mmo that classes can inject a bit of unique class flavour beyond normal combat.
    Dont try to inform ppl about owpvp. It's like trying to "cure stupid'.
  • MorgalfMorgalf Member, Alpha Two
    Dead 6 months after release? Tell that to classic WoW. There's very little deterring griefers but friends and yet it is still the most beloved MMORPG across the spectrum. Its called RISK. To psychologically feel alive in the game, sometimes you have to die an unfair death. Also, there will be TONS of bounty hunters. That is a system that is often heavily pursued.
    c8ybb18afj2p.jpg
    "The gods do not fear death. They greet death as an old friend. When your time comes to return to the ashes, move forward knowing death is merely one of many paths to a new adventure."
  • Morgalf wrote: »
    Dead 6 months after release? Tell that to classic WoW. There's very little deterring griefers but friends and yet it is still the most beloved MMORPG across the spectrum. Its called RISK. To psychologically feel alive in the game, sometimes you have to die an unfair death. Also, there will be TONS of bounty hunters. That is a system that is often heavily pursued.

    Player fluctuations, steady projections and trends.
    Expectations vs Reality
    Nuances of risk with severity
    Design for playstyle encouragement with intermittent friction of core philosophy.
    Choices
  • MorgalfMorgalf Member, Alpha Two
    edited November 2023
    Morgalf wrote: »
    Dead 6 months after release? Tell that to classic WoW. There's very little deterring griefers but friends and yet it is still the most beloved MMORPG across the spectrum. Its called RISK. To psychologically feel alive in the game, sometimes you have to die an unfair death. Also, there will be TONS of bounty hunters. That is a system that is often heavily pursued.

    Player fluctuations, steady projections and trends.
    Expectations vs Reality
    Nuances of risk with severity
    Design for playstyle encouragement with intermittent friction of core philosophy.
    Choices

    Well now I just feel stupid. Anywho, I don't mind some ganking on my way up. Especially when there are bounty hunter heroes to protect me. I like to suffer a little then get a chance to turn the tides. It's like "One day I'll have my revenge." Maybe I'm just conditioned for abuse.
    c8ybb18afj2p.jpg
    "The gods do not fear death. They greet death as an old friend. When your time comes to return to the ashes, move forward knowing death is merely one of many paths to a new adventure."
  • Morgalf wrote: »
    Morgalf wrote: »
    Dead 6 months after release? Tell that to classic WoW. There's very little deterring griefers but friends and yet it is still the most beloved MMORPG across the spectrum. Its called RISK. To psychologically feel alive in the game, sometimes you have to die an unfair death. Also, there will be TONS of bounty hunters. That is a system that is often heavily pursued.

    Player fluctuations, steady projections and trends.
    Expectations vs Reality
    Nuances of risk with severity
    Design for playstyle encouragement with intermittent friction of core philosophy.
    Choices

    Well now I just feel stupid. Anywho, I don't mind some ganking on my way up. Especially when there are bounty hunter heroes to protect me. I like to suffer a little then get a chance to turn the tides. It's like "One day I'll have my revenge." Maybe I'm just conditioned for abuse.

    haha :smile: just laughing with the last part.
    Bounty hunting should be an interesting.
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