Talking from an action combat players perspective here having played only with the action camera mode in a1 and doubt anything has changed since.
The only ability i consider to be a skillshot right now is a scatter shot charged to a line. That projectile travels straight in a line but stays on the ground level. This projectile can also miss the target as seen here
Abilities like Snipe and Headshot should function more as a skillshot that you can also aim up and down rather than making the character follow the target and being a tab target homing missile
How the ability works now is you have to have a target, then press the ability and start charging and releasing. Then the projectile flys to the target you pressed the ability on before starting to charge, making it impossible to change your mind mid cast if you decide you want to hit another target instead.
I Have a solution that i feel would work and make the abilities and gameplay feel more like what i consider to be Action Combat
Make Snipe and Headshot able to be charged without a target.
in TAB mode, make a crosshair appear on the screen when pressing the ability, then AT THE END of the charge animation when the projectile would go off, have the projectile hone in on the target you have your crosshair over.
This way it would feel more action, but have a lower skill ceiling than a true projectile and not deal with desync issues.
Thundering Shot should work like Mage Lava Storm in A1, where the template appears but you can still aim the ability
in TAB mode Bear trap should work as it does now, but in Action Mode it should work like Lava Storm also
That was the best class showcase you've shown by far, good job!
My only concern is that ALL of the attacks (except Scatter Shot*) were Tab-Target; not counting AoE attacks because they still don't require aiming, the skill ceiling is very tiny.
As someone who PVPs a lot in BDO on a sweaty high APM Rogue-like class, I would probably run away from PVP in Ashes of Creation. It feels good to improve at a game or be among the best at your class by PVPing for thousands of hours even if the game doesn't reward you for it. So please, improve the complexity of the combat.
Just because it's not an action-combat game, doesn't mean there won't be any complexity, and a lot of skill and learning involved in actually being good at playing your class.
I just don't understand where this idea comes from. Just because you don't have to aim all of your abilities, doesn't make the skill ceiling "very tiny". There's still positioning, timing, learning what your class can or cannot do, using the right ability at the right time, combos, movement, building your class correctly (in terms of the skills and the gear), and probably some other things I forgot to mention.
It's far from having "a tiny skill ceiling".
First of all, looks amazing. Very hyped. Loved it.
Now, for what I think could be better:
1. A few times, ranger was shooting things directly behind them. I think it looks weird. I think Ranger should have to be facing whatever it is shooting. It should be within the 180 degree front of the ranger.
2. Some spells arc a little too much. Arrows feel/look better when relatively straight. Specifically, the lighting arrow looked more like a spell, not an arrow. IDEA: What if you shoot the arrow onto a magically appearing mirror ontop of the target, and it ricochets down towards the target in lightning form. Overall, just don't like the curvy arrows. Feels like a magic caster, and not a bow+arrow shooter.
That's about it. Those were my only concerns. Looks amazing! Great job!
I agree kind of.
What I'm hopeful for, is that some of these abilities would be the augmented versions instead.
For example, the lightning arrow, I would really love it that was the augmented version of some ability, when you combine a Ranger + Mage. It would just make so much more sense that way.
The weapon combo system is not visually impactful at all. I could not tell the difference between the combo with points and the combo without. I could not even see what was meant by combo because the attack speed was way too fast.
On the impact. I feel like if you are using choosing to use a longer combo you should really feel it in the time it takes to pull off the full combo. A player should visually see the build up to the last hit in the combo for both themselves and for in pvp. With the attack speed being so fast and the barrage of projectiles there is no indication at all. Players will basically be expected to track their buffs and debuffs in the middle of combat to see if someone got a combo off on them. A distinct 1...2...3....4 in cadence would feel more impactful and be easier to track. It should not be something easy to pull off without outside help from allies.
On the attack speed. The barrage of projectiles looks more like an ability not a basic attack. I like the idea of adding bonus projectiles with buffs or arrow types but there has to be some kind of delay between attacks so you can distinctly see your bonus projectiles. A 1-0.5 second delay between basic attacks would go a long way. It should start on the higher end with no gear and scale down if a player builds attack speed. This would also make combo focused builds have a more obvious build path in their gearing.
Snipe also seems like it would be mandatory as an opener in pve. Mobs should probably react to a ranger casting it on them to make it more interesting and not a sure thing every pull.
Would like to see some options available for skill in talent tree like omni evade that made thing more skill shot based for player who like that.
Snipe for example could be turned into a skill shot and get a piercing/longer range effect on it for the trade off
All hard CC (stun/knockdown/trips/pulls towards) for example should be a skill shot or require set up btw for any kit that has them. super impactful skills should require some skill to land imo.
That being said loved the show case some small things i realy like it change to name plates and dmg number look nicer.
the corruption penalty seems like a good place you get 1 kill before corruption hits you seems good
Skills looked clean and not over the top
mushroom mob death animation was great leaving there little caps behind
Some improvements
- Lightning seems a bit off
- Named mob didnt seem to do anything unique just fat HP pool, would of been nice to see a unique skill/mechanic on it like shooting a web at somone and pulling them back to the spider for example
So first and foremost I just want to say this combat looks amazing! I play a ranger class in every single MMO and I can't wait to get my hands on this! I think everything shown is just amazing and I wouldn't change a thing, however I would like to see a few things.
Stealth Mechanic for Rangers: It would be fantastic to introduce a hide feature for Rangers, adding a subtle layer of stealth without overpowering the class. Drawing inspiration from Aion, Rangers could possess a "Hide 1" ability, while Rogues or Assassins wield a more potent "Hide 2" ability visible to very few classes but definitely to Rangers. This dynamic could foster strategic gameplay, with the visibility of Hide 2 limited during its cooldown. While I understand the availability of different archetypes, a personal preference for the Rogue archetype solely for the stealth ability is a testament to the appeal of such features.
*Hide I enters basic stealth for 30s~50s. The skill decreases the movement speed by 40% while in effect.
Can't be used during battle.
-No buffs can be cast while in Hide I, any buff cast will break stealth.
*Hide II - You enter advanced stealth for 40 seconds~1 minute. Decreases your movement speed by 20% while in effect.
Can't be used during battle.
-Up to two buffs can be cast while in Hide II without breaking stealth.
Personal Buffs: Introducing more personal buffs, such as a temporary 25% increase in attack speed for 10 seconds or a percentage reduction in cooldowns, would add depth to gameplay. Consider integrating attack speed enhancements into existing abilities like "Lightning Reload" for a seamless and synergistic experience.
*Bestial Fury I - for 1m, the Atk Range of Bows decreases by 15 meters while Attack increases by 50% and Atk Speed increases by 20%.
Expanded Trap Options: Diversifying the Ranger's trap arsenal with options like slow traps, poison traps, silence traps, and an armor penetration trap that temporarily weakens armor for arrows to bypass could enrich strategic choices for crowd control and damage over time.
Bow Attacks and Longbow Dynamics: Clarification on whether the showcased bow attacks apply exclusively to the shortbow or extend to the longbow is essential. Understanding how cooldowns and ranges are affected when using a longbow would provide valuable insights. A potential adjustment, such as an extra 5 or 10 meters of range with a longbow, could enhance the differentiation between bow types.
Can't wait to see more about this archetype in particular! I would actually love to see a Rogue showcase soon as well and maybe a showcase on mixing and matching the archetypes and what that might look like.
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That was the best class showcase you've shown by far, good job!
My only concern is that ALL of the attacks (except Scatter Shot*) were Tab-Target; not counting AoE attacks because they still don't require aiming, the skill ceiling is very tiny.
As someone who PVPs a lot in BDO on a sweaty high APM Rogue-like class, I would probably run away from PVP in Ashes of Creation. It feels good to improve at a game or be among the best at your class by PVPing for thousands of hours and still have room for improvement. So please, improve the complexity of the combat.
Just because it's not an action-combat game, doesn't mean there won't be any complexity, and a lot of skill and learning involved in actually being good at playing your class.
I just don't understand where this idea comes from. Just because you don't have to aim all of your abilities, doesn't make the skill ceiling "very tiny". There's still positioning, timing, learning what your class can or cannot do, using the right ability at the right time, combos, movement, building your class correctly (in terms of the skills and the gear), and probably some other things I forgot to mention.
It's far from having "a tiny skill ceiling".
Hm, I'll make it simple for you to understand.
Can you do a crazy 1v8 play like that a in tab target combat with similar gear as everyone else?
No, not even close; you press tab then 123 cc boom boom and it's over. Can't dodge anything. This is what I mean by skill ceiling.
This fight lasted 27 seconds (sped up x2), it isn't just a drop of a meteor on a crowd. With all due respect, I think whoever advocates for tab-target is out of touch of what a good combat is like.
As someone who has been somewhat over critical of the recent combat updates. It's safe to say that a number of my concerns have been laid to rest for now with the Ranger Showcase. Although what was shown may not be leaning as deeply into the "Action" aspect of the Hybrid combat as I had first anticipated, the abilities Air Strike, Scatter Shot, Bear Trap & Raining Death are in my opinion excellent hybrid abilities with Scatter Shot & Air Strike my particular favourites as they show clear evolution of abilities. I would love to see abilities like Thundering Shot evolve into a hybrid ability and use a "trajectory" based projectile that takes some skill to position it for maximum effectiveness or you can press it once for it to tab target lock for less damage but a guaranteed hit? However, very happy with what I have seen and I am extremely excited to see the evolution of abilities for the other Archetypes from what has been shown previously. Well done to all of the Dev team.
I am most excited by the skill ceiling of the ranger archetype, comparatively to the other showcases provided there is a clear emergence of skill related abilities being developed E.G Bear Trap, Scatter Shot, Hunts / Marks. This for me is what I've been desperately waiting to see & I am very happy to see it. I feel like disengage & Air Strike is perhaps a bit too far of a step in terms of mobility and would prefer a smaller distanced dash that decreases damage taken for a short period afterward? However, this is dependant on the remaining melee archetype showcases and the mobility provided.
I'd also like to raise a toast to VFX, animation & environment teams for the job they have done. The toning down of the effects for the ranger are excellent & the environment is looking extremely unique. I would like to see the mushrooms ditched for a mob type that looks like it belongs there as they looked a bit out of place.
I'm not particularly concerned about anything at this stage as the evolution of the ranger to this point has quelled *some* concerns I had for combat. However, I would like to raise attention to a couple of points of personal preference / aesthetic:
I feel like the speed of Barrage shots, even for a short bow are extremely quick. I would like to see these toned down a fraction.
This is subject to seeing further abilities from the other archetypes but I would like to note that some of the colour choices for the ranger abilities, particularly Mark of the Bear look extremely similar to other abilities we have seen which could lead to some visual confusion. I'm not sure if there is an intention for archetype colour theme's to be followed for abilities that will allow them to be easily distinguished from others?
As mentioned above, the only other thing was the mobility of the ranger with abilities like disengage & air strike. However this is subject to seeing other archetype abilities.
EDIT - Having watched the showcase a second time. I would also like to see an active threat mitigation ability in the form of a mark or imbue ammo that causes threat mitigation but reduces damage caused.
All in all, very impressed with what I'm seeing and looking forward to testing in Q3. I also think it was a very good choice to go with Q3 for A2 release
I think it was great, I think the game is going in the right direction but there are things I disliked:
- the archer felt more like a mage. I would have understood if what was presented was the ranger-mage class for example, but I for one would like it more if the ranger was more ''physical'' like the wow classic one is,
- the way the character uses the bow doesnt seem realistic enough. Looks a bit ''fake'' like a not-so-good actor going through the motions knowing it will all get CGI enhanced later.
- the mobs we saw were a bit underwhelming... they felt kind of out of place for such a map and just not cool enough.
- the trap was a bit.... over the top. Almost like a caricature. I hope there are talents/classes that make it hard to see and such.
Stealth Mechanic for Rangers: It would be fantastic to introduce a hide feature for Rangers, adding a subtle layer of stealth without overpowering the class. Drawing inspiration from Aion, Rangers could possess a "Hide 1" ability, while Rogues or Assassins wield a more potent "Hide 2" ability visible to very few classes but definitely to Rangers. This dynamic could foster strategic gameplay, with the visibility of Hide 2 limited during its cooldown. While I understand the availability of different archetypes, a personal preference for the Rogue archetype solely for the stealth ability is a testament to the appeal of such features.
taking rogue as sub class might give you stealth options for all classes btw potentially
I will watch the video again, but I thought I heard the three words from the team I needed to hear. That among their design considerations "... fun to play ..." was mentioned. Talk is cheep, and I am not a Ranger expert, but from what I see, the Ranger is looking more fun.
Also, the more I have heard the devs talk about their work, the more I have gained confidence in them, and the future of Ashes of Creation.
Stealth Mechanic for Rangers: It would be fantastic to introduce a hide feature for Rangers, adding a subtle layer of stealth without overpowering the class. Drawing inspiration from Aion, Rangers could possess a "Hide 1" ability, while Rogues or Assassins wield a more potent "Hide 2" ability visible to very few classes but definitely to Rangers. This dynamic could foster strategic gameplay, with the visibility of Hide 2 limited during its cooldown. While I understand the availability of different archetypes, a personal preference for the Rogue archetype solely for the stealth ability is a testament to the appeal of such features.
taking rogue as sub class might give you stealth options for all classes btw potentially
Yeah I guess that's true, but for me personally I would want it for my Ranger. A ranger "class" without some sort of stealth or camoflauge just seems off to me, but maybe its a feature that's planned and just not shown yet.
Thanks for the awesome stream! Great improvements to combat fluidity and impact were shown here, so I was happy to see that.
I like that the shortbow ranger has a more rapid-paced, high-mobility combat style compared to the longbow ranger. I would definitely keep that around and lean into it as you go along. Similarly drastic differences in combat style should also be employed for users of different weapon types across all archetypes imo. GW2 did this extremely well and offered a variety of combat styles for every class by doing little more than swapping your weapon / talents.
Wand Mages could be more mobile with quicker, flashier, lower-damage spells and a better utility tool kit, being more articulate, precise, and detailed. Staff Mages could have longer cast times, more channeled abilities, and focus more on AoE / big-damage single target spells. Huge fireballs, concentrated lightning storms / hurricanes, large arcane damage buffers. The hovering blizzard / lightning orb spells come to mind here. Playing into a drastic look-and-feel difference between those two would be awesome.
Similar impacts on your abilities and playstyle based on weapon choice should be present for all archetypes, I think, and most should be fairly obvious / intuitive to design and play.
The animations, SFX, and VFX were great here - the main critique I have is that lighting projectiles (both in this showcase, as well as in the showcase for the Mage) felt particularly weak / underwhelming to me. I think they need more "oomph". You're channeling lightning, not a little zap of static electricity. The AOE blast on the lightning arrow was decent, but the projectile itself felt wimpy. It also moved through the air a little too slowly imo. Lightning happens in the blink of an eye with profound intensity and visual / auditory force. I think the lightning arrow should show itself charging up as it's nocked against the bow, then once its energy peaks, fire from the string in an almost explosive fashion, hurtling towards its target, and causing a huge crash of power upon impact. I would give similar critique to any lightning based attacks for the mage as well. If you're channeling the powers of Zeus / Thor, it should bloody well feel like it.
That being said, I also thought it was strange that lightning spells were part of the ranger's base toolkit. To be honest, that really feels like a ranger/mage class ability. Perhaps the exact same ability could be re-VFX/SFX'd into an Explosive Shot ability that involves a lit pack of explosive at the end of the arrow that causes the same type of AOE explosion if it's shot from far enough away (the fuse needs enough time to burn down in order to go off?). The ability would work almost exactly the same, and could then be modified into lightning arrow if a mage augment is chosen? I think that would feel more in line with the natural/survival aspect of a ranger.
Every other ability looked like a lot of fun to me. I think more types of traps will be fun to implement, and I look forward to seeing a more fleshed-out version of the hunts/marks system.
My only other complaint is one I've had for a while - and that's that very few of the creatures shown in the open world really look like they belong there. I'm getting a bit off-topic now, and of course, I understand if the chosen mobs were just picked and placed at random for the sake of the video recording, but I hope I won't find sentient mushrooms walking around in the winter, or fluorescent, ice-blue spiders that look like they belong in the far northern tundra wandering around southern meadows just because it's winter time. I know it's a high-fantasy game, but there has to be some attention paid to suspension of disbelief. Again, if they were just random mobs dropped in a zone for a ranger showcase, I apologize, but I've seen a lot of zany looking creatures in streams over the years, and rarely do the fantasy ones ever look like natural denizens of their environs. Imo, if you have fantastical looking creatures with unnaturally bright colors and such, then they need to have equally fantastical looking areas to call home.
Thanks again for the great stream, looking forward to the end of next Summer!
Stealth Mechanic for Rangers: It would be fantastic to introduce a hide feature for Rangers, adding a subtle layer of stealth without overpowering the class. Drawing inspiration from Aion, Rangers could possess a "Hide 1" ability, while Rogues or Assassins wield a more potent "Hide 2" ability visible to very few classes but definitely to Rangers. This dynamic could foster strategic gameplay, with the visibility of Hide 2 limited during its cooldown. While I understand the availability of different archetypes, a personal preference for the Rogue archetype solely for the stealth ability is a testament to the appeal of such features.
taking rogue as sub class might give you stealth options for all classes btw potentially
Yeah I guess that's true, but for me personally I would want it for my Ranger. A ranger "class" without some sort of stealth or camoflauge just seems off to me, but maybe its a feature that's planned and just not shown yet.
i cant think of a single game where ranger had stealth or camo, closest i can think of was camo from woodelf in crowfall.
Edit: ohh wait i beleive ranger had invis in everquest atleast till animals as a spell but i can think of anything recentish
-How do you feel about the Ranger Archetype Update?
Great.
-What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype?
Everything.
-Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?
I hope that not only I get the benefit from the mark I apply on the target but my teammates or other players also gets the benefit from my mark. Mark of the Raven for example, it can be ranger gets 100% proc chance but teammates get 50~75% proc chance if it’s too powerful.
I want to see more different traps, and you can look into Dragonhunter’s/Ranger’s/Thief’s trap skills in GW2, and I'm not sure that allow ground targeting to set trap in that far range is good.
Love Imbue Ammo skills, want to see further develop the bleed one for example maybe can do more damage when the target is moving if level it up into higher level. Maybe add a powder egg one, empty an egg and put different powders and scarps in the egg put it on trick arrowhead and shoot it to enemy to make enemy temporary blind or can't breathe to root enemy in place for few seconds just like the effect pepper gun provide.
-Are there similar archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
Love Dragonhunter, Ranger and Thief in GW2.
I feel the sound effects of arrow shots are better than last ranger update, you are in right direction in my opinion. Please don't take the direction like BDO or Elden Ring, shooting arrows in real world just doesn't feel any close to those games, the camera shake and the VFXs to show the weight/power of weapon/shot is very awkward. Please find good example and feeling from reality and transform those into the game.
Last, the short bow design is not ok looks more awkward in action, please fix those not good bow designs in future.
Stealth Mechanic for Rangers: It would be fantastic to introduce a hide feature for Rangers, adding a subtle layer of stealth without overpowering the class. Drawing inspiration from Aion, Rangers could possess a "Hide 1" ability, while Rogues or Assassins wield a more potent "Hide 2" ability visible to very few classes but definitely to Rangers. This dynamic could foster strategic gameplay, with the visibility of Hide 2 limited during its cooldown. While I understand the availability of different archetypes, a personal preference for the Rogue archetype solely for the stealth ability is a testament to the appeal of such features.
taking rogue as sub class might give you stealth options for all classes btw potentially
Yeah I guess that's true, but for me personally I would want it for my Ranger. A ranger "class" without some sort of stealth or camoflauge just seems off to me, but maybe its a feature that's planned and just not shown yet.
i cant think of a single game where ranger had stealth or camo, closest i can think of was camo from woodelf in crowfall.
Edit: ohh wait i beleive ranger had invis in everquest atleast till animals as a spell but i can think of anything recentish
Really? Hunters in WoW have camoflauge, Ranger in Aion had Hide, LOTRO had Hunter camoflauge, GW2 with certain builds you can run stealth, Dark Age of Camelot, Age of Conan, I mean Rangers have even had stealth in Dungeons and Dragons for forever so I don't know exactly what you mean? Stealth is a very common theme in the Ranger world across all genres, its part of their lore. They are Hunters who stalk their prey, it only makes sense to give them something "stealthy".
That was the best class showcase you've shown by far, good job!
My only concern is that ALL of the attacks (except Scatter Shot*) were Tab-Target; not counting AoE attacks because they still don't require aiming, the skill ceiling is very tiny.
As someone who PVPs a lot in BDO on a sweaty high APM Rogue-like class, I would probably run away from PVP in Ashes of Creation. It feels good to improve at a game or be among the best at your class by PVPing for thousands of hours and still have room for improvement. So please, improve the complexity of the combat.
Just because it's not an action-combat game, doesn't mean there won't be any complexity, and a lot of skill and learning involved in actually being good at playing your class.
I just don't understand where this idea comes from. Just because you don't have to aim all of your abilities, doesn't make the skill ceiling "very tiny". There's still positioning, timing, learning what your class can or cannot do, using the right ability at the right time, combos, movement, building your class correctly (in terms of the skills and the gear), and probably some other things I forgot to mention.
It's far from having "a tiny skill ceiling".
Hm, I'll make it simple for you to understand.
Can you do a crazy 1v8 play like that a in tab target combat with similar gear as everyone else?
No, not even close, you press tab then 123 cc boom boom and it's over. This is what I mean by skill ceiling.
This fight lasted 27 seconds (sped up x2), it isn't just a drop of a meteor on a crowd. With all due respect, I think whoever advocates for tab-target is out of touch of what a good combat is like.
I mean it's plenty possible to have outplay potential in a tab based game. There are mechanical elements to tab games just not as much with aim (though it can be with aim if there are skill shots/placed abilities). You have all the positioning elements etc. that you have with an action game.
You're obviously exaggerating with "press tab then 123 cc boom boom and it's over". I would use WoW as the best example; there is plenty of outplay potential and combining your offensive skills with your cc and mobility skills is one of the ways to express yourself and separate the skilled players from the average one. If the game has a good pool of abilities similar to WoW, then I think outplay potential could be higher but that also is down to how Intrepid balance the game.
In that clip, is that one skilled player vs 7 other skilled players? Or 1 skilled player vs 7 other below average players?
Someone like Xaryu is a good example (considered world's best Mage in WoW, or at least has been at some points) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh7MJpVIa0w - if you're just button mashing then you won't last too long. And if you can just combo people with a sequence of commands without counter play then the combat has been designed poorly.
Q) How do you feel about the Ranger Archetype Update?
A) Big upgrade from the previous showcases. Very cool skills so far, big plus for exchanging "dead zone" for skill distance properties (like with the shock skill). "We removed it because it wasn't fun" and found a solution, great job! Also love the mobility given when performing abilities and the philosophy "we want to give players agency over their movement", yes! more!
Q) What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype?
A) I haven't (sadly) played the archetype yet but i'm excited to try it out. Looking at it, it looks fun. But playing is always different from watching. It looks fast paced, impactful, and at a glance there seem to be quite a bit of build options already with the skill tree.
Q) Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?
A)
- Love the skilltree having an actual important impact. Abilities AND passives especially.
- Comboing with those off global cd marks looks fun to do as well.
- I love the dual purpose of skills depending on the situation. For example scattershot allowing for a wide or narrow shot depending on your situation. Fantastic idea, more of these dual purpose skills i'd say!
- The Airstrike movement/air strafing is great. I also love that mobility skills that jump, ACTUALLY jump, and you can traverse from lower to higher ground. More often than not these jump skills never allow you to move over the smallest bump in other games, so i love that it's possible here.
- Great take on the trap ability. Often a skill that's underwhelming and/or just not viable, but its such a staple for a hunter/ranger class. Great that the skill isn't tossed aside because of it and a solution is sought instead!
-
The only feedback piece i have is that it would be great if the momentum carries through when you use the "disengage" ability. For example: In the showcase video on the official AoC YT channel - at 32:47
- you can see Steven perform 2 Disengages. At the end of the animation/skill he loses momentum even though he still has airtime from jumping off of something high. I would love to see it carried through so it's worth to backflip off of something high to maximize the value of the skill and reward positional use.
Other thoughts:
- I'm looking forward to see if Longbow is/can be a more methodical playstyle than the rapidfire shortbow.
- I love that there's no ammunition pool that you have to replenish constantly.
- Great work, keep it up!
the positives:
Vfx was better than previous showcases, animations were solid for the most part, I liked how the marks were off Global Cooldown and can be used during other spellcasts. Liked the agency given to the player with Air Strike and the Disengage abilities. liked how you can spec into the omnidirectional jump too. Cc breaks are a positive. Liked the use of situational abilities like the arrow types and marks.
Areas of improvement:
No quiver displayed on the character on the back or hip. It would go a long way for immersion and a better feel for an archer class. I think it would be cool to have the animations tied to the quiver drawing arrows for basic attacks and abilities drawing a grip of arrows like when you select the different arrow types.
Disengage needs a better animation when specced into the multi directional trait that turns into a front flip, side flip, or back flip depending on the direction you are moving when used. I would also like to see dodge rolls and the slide work in this way based on WASD keys.
Lack of skill shots. If you're going to proceed with having 2 separate combat modes, certain skills like snipe and headshot should bring up the reticle and need to be aimed. Others can have frontal cones and template AOEs like the bear trap or the Clerics AOEs. So far all I'm seeing is full blown tab target aside from maybe 2 abilities. Consider adding more variety like a ricochet shot, tri-shot, piercing arrow, an exploding arrow that puts a status field below the element specced into frost, fire, poison, etc.
The lightning arrow should be a template AOE. Gives more agency to the player allowing you to lead your shots or time them just right. Would make more sense than what it is currently. The homing arrow thing looks goofy.
Templated aoe for Rain of Death is confusing and the projectiles are inconsistent, sometimes landing outside of the template or even behind the character.
the rapid fire ability and Basic attack speed were too fast, especially when the combo buffs triggered. Seriously, It was like machine gun fire.
As a general rule, the character should need to be facing the target in order to shoot them. This is easy to abuse in tab target mode where you can still shoot targets that are behind you, allowing you to kite enemies easily running at full speed away and still barraging them with arrows without having to look at them.
Skill Tree - It seemed like it was still a early work in progress and had no real direction yet. I would like to see something like Warhammer 40k Darktide's talent trees. Theirs are really nice because you have many crossover points where you can get to other abilities that aren't apart of the same path. Most games will force you down one path that you may not be entirely interested in order to get to the good stuff, but this layout gives you much more options and freedom over your build.
Where do I start without writing a long essay? Overall, I have been closely following the game since its pre-alpha phase and have witnessed the positive and negative progression and changes of the combat system over the past few years. I am happy to see that it is now moving in an enjoyable direction.
How do you feel about the Ranger Archetype Update?
I believe that the update for the Ranger archetype represents a promising future for the combat system (other classes), but it still needs further adjustments to reach its full potential.
The following "essay" will/should answer the other questions from my perspective.
Visuals & UI:
I generally appreciate the visuals of the abilities since they are easily distinguishable, making them easier to respond/counter to.
Given that we do not yet know the quantity of possible conditions, buffs, and debuffs, I see it as problematic if their numbers become overwhelming and difficult to keep track of, especially during intense fights.
Regarding the skill trees: the UI still needs a more improved structure (skills).
Movement Abilities:
The movement itself looks good at first glance, but I will need to test it myself in order to provide accurate feedback. The options in the settings are part of it.
Air Strike:
Using abilities like air strike can be enjoyable from a movement perspective, but it can lead to gameplay imbalance when factoring in the environment and the advantage of being able to navigate on objects like rock ledges, which melee fighters may not be capable of.
It is important to keep the eyes on this aspect. Personally, I appreciate gameplay that relies on the environment, aside from the usual choke points found in every game (AoE gameplay). Overall, this introduces a new level of gameplay and skill.
Disengage:
I like the idea if possible, of having a 180-degree(character turns instantly around, Gw2) setting that allows you to dodge forward instead of backward.
So far what we have seen, the non movement and movement abilities lack defense abilities like avoiding damage or blocking. Everything revolves around damage.
Non Movement Abilities:
Overall, I prefer abilities that allow movement while casting since being stuck in one place disrupts the momentum and overall the gameplay fun.
Snipe:
Since Steven didn't move, players probably can't move with this ability while it's charging.
In my opinion, it requires some redesign. There are multiple ways to achieve this. For example, the ability could gradually slow down as you charge it and come to a complete halt if overcharged, resulting in additional damage. Alternatively, the movement speed during casting could be reduced to 50-75%.
Raining Death & Scatter Shot:
In my opinion, the scatter shot also needs to be reworked. The earlier you activate the skill, the further back you jump, whereas you shouldn't jump back if you cast it almost to the end. The jump backwards should also be increased. Overall, I dislike the skill because it's static.
Both "aoe" abilities are weird to look at and look like copied from a mobile game, I guess it was designed that way for action combat gamers, but I honestly don't like the solution of it.
Overall, I'm currently missing too many hybrid skills.
However, as we haven't seen all the skills and class combinations yet, this could change.
Even though a Ranger is more of a single target damage class, I hope the game doesn't end up like Throne and Liberty with almost no CC and 90% single target abilities. (Yes, I have tried the Korean version.)
Instant Abilities:
I am very glad that we are able to use several skills at the same time, which increases the skill level.
Overall, I hope to see more on multi-skills like blink dps combo and other skills in the future.
Marks:
I think the abilities are pretty common, some buff you, some give negative stats to the enemy and some are combo related. Not much to say about this except that we need to test it to see the impact, especially with the gear stats.
Regular Abilities:
Overall, the amount of arrows nuking out of the wooden bow during auto attacks like a minigun is just bad for immersion. In my opinion 50% of the arrows should be removed from the basic attack, but keep the same damage. The other abilities who can spike quickly for a short period of time are another story and I like them.
I can only repeat what I said back then, that it's nice to shoot around a corner to a certain level/degree.
Additional feedback:
I'm not the biggest fan of the bear traps for various reasons. Depending on how they work, rangers could just stand in the cages or kite around them, which could be annoying for melees, but that depends on a lot of abilities, like cc breaks and more, that we haven't really seen yet. I hope some movement abilities offer cc breaks too, for example the Ranger air dash.
As mentioned before, I don't like the way Aoe is handled on the Ranger, I prefer the oldschool type, aim(range) and cast where you want it.
The damage feedback looks good.
I probably have more to say, but I've been typing for too long again, so I'll leave it at that point.
[Edit: I also like that the game looks more skill based now, more damage against mobs etc, so solo leveling is also possible. Skill should be important, if you are good you can kill an elite mob solo, if you are bad you need 3 people.]
TLDR: Range dps should be able to output more damage if "kept in pocket" and less if forced to become mobile. Think Legolas v. Police Girl (Seras Victoria)
Going to use League as a common ground as there is a high likelihood we both have somewhat of an idea how it functions.
Examples and Parallel thematic elements: Miss Fortune ult, Kog Maw orbwalk, Caitlyn and Akshan ult (with the caveat that damage increases with longer charge) (capped?) I see this already represented in "Snipe"
Forcing ranged dps to scramble should feel more like Vayne and Lucian, (Pocket Sand! Cloaking, Decoys, etc) like Gnar flinging his boomerang backwards trying to fill passive bar... a hint of desperation to reinforce that the core thematic identity of a ranger IS Trad longer ranged dps, while remaining loyal to prioritizing scaling in mobility over damage. (Not as much utility, as that would reduce the need for cooperation.
Set up for "ranged exodia" should feel "boom head shot" or "mowing them over" "scarface"
Again, I believe this is understood already. *Big thumbs up*
Being pushed "out of pocket" more like: scrambling, close calls, coinflip, reaction based, forcing you to "make a run for 1st down.. but we're all a little scared the quarterback is gonna get injured"
SUSPENSE!!!
Understand basic philosophy about weapons, any weapon for any class, however, LONG KNIFE(VES) VIBE IS IMPORTANT TO RANGER THEMATIC IDENTITY (smoothen out bow to long knife weapon swap?)
Going melee should feel a little desperate, maybe conveyed in animation and other visual audio layers?
Ranger thematic includes inherent thematic tags: Survivalist, Hunter, Pocket Sand
I believe a good portion of people really like the "beast tamer" vibes
I vibe much more with gloomstalker (Twitch "opening up" from stealth) personally
Gloomstalker seemes harder to balance than trad ranger though, unless beast has taunt lite, but then that cuts into other roles, is that okay?
For recent comparison: Remnant 2 handler fun to start with but large crutch, as it absorbed too much aggro imo, creating los corner cheese strats which circumvent game design
But that game is meant to be speedrun so...
Contrasting of identities based on how much pressure hunter is under:
In pocket: Clean, Precise, Powerful
Out of pocket: Tense, Increased Apm Play, Less overall dps to incentivize allies to aid in returning the ranger to an idyllic position. Lends to teamwork, and cooperation. IE: Goodwill and Appreciation
"Squad" integrity leads into player retention.. obviously
Have access to a reliable, seasoned group to play test with.
1. high damage w/locking on minigame, lining up perfect shot, can't move during
2. base line, bread and butter, no fuss, higher damage, can move while casting but slows down over duration, maybe critical fail if held to long to help with balance so people can't camp with it and destroy meta
3. series of precision attacks ending in status effect or similar debuff, utility support spec, bleeding or some other dot, OR gives caster dps buff, or frenzy, like press the attack or vayne's w, rampage from Remnant 2 again
How do you feel about the Ranger Archetype Update?
I thought it was moving in the right direction. The combat and abilities definitely looked better than the last showcase, and I loved the style of Steven taking the time to demo each ability in order.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype? Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?
The overall ranger gameplay looked fun and exciting. It just looks like it will be a nice mobile fun archetype to play. My concern is that the overall design philosophy of AoC will be in conflict with the ranger class fantasy. For example, the fantasy of a ranger is typically some sort of fast likely armored hunter (maybe with a bow or a pet). Most of the abilities were centered around using a bow, but in AoC I should be able to select any weapon/armor combination. I am concerned that a wand/full plate hunter will not feel like a hunter, or that the hunter will be limited compared to other archetypes because the class fantasy is more niche.
Are there similar archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
I loved the ranger class in GW2. I would say that was a really great take on the ranger/hunter archetype, and it seems to have some similar themes with the AoC ranger design. Specifically, I thought the trap specialization up through the first expansion (it may have changed since) was amazing, and I have some great memories of "catching" assassins in my traps during PvP.
This was a nice stream presentation of the Ranger class.
a) Long Bow vs Short Bow w/abilities that cater to each base attack range. It would be neat if there were either specific abilities that could only be used with a long bow, or all abilities Max/min range adjusted based on bow type used. When using a Long Bow maybe getting 5-10 extra meters to trade off for their slower attack speed?
b) Snipe Ability - Nicely done animation. It reminds me of the movie Immortals, with the Epirus Bow visuals. My favorite bow ability to use in any game is Ashe's Ultimate from LoL.
c) Basic attacks and Barrage ability w/short bow seem like a machine gun.
One of the most unappealing aspects of New World's pvp combat meta and balance is getting machine gunned down by ranged/casters in their Outpost Rush mode. It's gotten so boring for the masses that the ranged meta has basically killed off the mode over the past couple of years. Having numerous ranged/mage players burst you down with tab-target machine gun attacks is going to be tough to balance and will not feel fun as an interaction for the melee victims who are absorbing 50 hits in a matter of 2 seconds.
The range limit looks more constrained in this demo so I appreciate that.
d) Counters - The Ranger looks to be a strong spec with its mobility. I like the direction your team is taking the role, but the counter appears to be hard cc spam at this point. Often players dislike being hard cc locked but with how fast the Ranger attacks and weaves abilities, and how mobile it is for disengagement, it looks like hard cc lock down will be the obvious response to this build's strengths. If melee doesn't have sufficient cc and gap closing these mobile range builds are going to go unchecked. Hope there's proper checks in place planned.
e) Area of Effect Decals - I like your current approach with the ability charges only being visible by the user until they're cast. One thing New World does well is each ability for their weapons have a unique animation windup visual that other players can see and help decipher your actions. When a Fire Mage goes to cast certain abilities they'll raise their staff high above their head, or a life staff user will clap above their head, Hammer users will use very distinct jumping animations that tip off their ability use for reacting to as an opposing player and this adds a skill element to the game. Some of the bow abilities shown in the Ranger showcase have unique windup animations, others are pretty generic. The more you can specialize these the better, as opponents can learn from repeated gameplay when to dodge, mitigate, heal etc. based on the incoming ability attack aimed at their team. The more generic the ability cast animations are the less skillful the gameplay will be. It will be more generic, team low, healer heals rather than more active and quick-reflex gaming based on counters.
If a player is charging an ability maybe their weapon or player model could shine/radiate an aura to demonstrate it to others around them.
f) Bear Trap - Too large. Imagine large scale pvp and how many of these traps are going to be littered on the field of battle. It will be obnoxious. Entering gates and one bow user could trap the entire entrance with 2-3 traps in what 10-15 seconds of prep time? Can probably create a large field of these traps leading up to gates with a few bow users and really slow down the pace of pvp. They also look silly with how large they are in the world compared to player models on the battle field. Maybe let them be targetable by enemies and destroyed?
g) The blacks are now a wash of black with no detail in the game for me. Steven's player model is just a black silhouette on my monitor when in the shade. I don't have a 4k monitor but its pretty high end. The shading with the recent black changes made in the game have turned anything in the shade or darker bodies as a wash of black figures with zero detail. The game looked much better before these changes to black shading imo.
Nice job on the Ranger overall. Should be a fun class to play. Looking forward to seeing the others yet to come.
How do you feel about the Ranger Archetype Update?
It feels really great. I'm not much of a ranger player myself but I was totally into it during the livestream.
The skillset makes sense. Its variety is quite appreciable, and the ranger mechanisms like marking or special ammo type are very ranger-ish and likeable too.
Aoe damages, single target damages, long range skills, shorter range skills, traps, some mobility (love Air Strike). All of this felt good.
Also the visual effects were really, reaaally great. This Sniping ability... it really says "Hey ! It's gonna (beautifully) hurt. : )"
Thumb up for your way or approaching the talent tree too. Making choices to make our own character the way we enjoy it is very important, and much appreciated.
The variety of path these mechanisms open is also a big plus.
Overall it looks like you have done a great work to make some good ideas and thinking coming to life. Bravo
"We have two lives, and the second one begins when we set foot on Verra."
I have to say that the mobility and the jumping around of the Ranger class looks really amazing. In turn, when I think of a ranger, I think of a smaller class that puts out damage in a precise manner and has high mobility to get to a point in the terrain to easily hit targets (planning this prior to combat, almost like a scout) and getting into position and hitting their targets from those tricky terrain spots. The mobility has hit the nail on the head for this. Those jumping mechanics really make me think that those tricky terrain spots are going to happen for the ranger so it is more difficult for a tank to get to the ranger. As you were jumping around the enemies in the video, I was very pleased with this idea from a "fun to play and how I imagine a ranger" perspective.
In a similar way, in group combat, when I see a ranger, I will tell one of my teammates, "hey, there is a ranger over there and if we don't deal with him now, then he will consistently put high damage numbers on our tank from afar uncontested" (with marks etc - side note I like the marks for this reason -) and maybe send the rogue or the ranger from our group over to fight him and keep him off of our tank. THIS is exactly the scenario and the situation that I see for a ranger in my head that would be loads of fun to think about strategy-wise playing as and against the ranger.
One thing that I have to agree with some of the other commentators in this forum is how cross-classing or archityping will work. This worries me a bit. I remember from the video, Mr. bossman had said that the archityping will be a modification of abilities and not new abilities. I understand that it would be difficult to make new abilities as it would pretty much be a different class altogether rather than a combination of two. However, please consider maybe putting one special ability in for each of the hybridized classes because I think this would add so much to the appeal of the hybrid classing and really make a player feel unique in the universe. Like oh, I decided to be a Ranger summoner, so I can summon a special pet that the other summoner hybrids cant because I am a ranger summoner (I could come up with a few ideas for this, a support pet that gives a player better vision, better accuracy, or even a boost of auto attack range to really emphasize that difficult terrain traversing ability) . Then again, this could still be a modification of a summoners ability so maybe I am wrong, but yeah, the hybridization is something that really drew me to this game in the first place because I haven't really found other games that have ever mastered this, and even dungeons and dragons struggles with multi-classing to a certain degree and that game is on paper.
Hope this helps and thank you to the Dev team for all of your hard work and effort to give your community what they want in a big MMO!
I have played ranger in every MMO I've tried. The reveal looked amazing! However, I have one idea for the trap skill that was showcased. I feel as a trap type skill shouldn't be thrown with a spectral effect or even thrown at all. It's meant as a strategic placement not a random CC thrown 7 meters away mid-fight like seen when fighting the spiders. How it was described as a strategic placement I feel is the complete opposite of the skill in its current state. I want that feeling of stepping back from a fight because I can see something the front line can not and help them by leaving for 5-15secs to trap off a potential flank by the enemy. In the trap abilities current state you'd just have to turn your mouse and place it without any real difficulty/thinking which I feels takes away that ranger/hunter vibe.
In my humble opinion I feel as though an animation during the placement should root in place as well as making the placement with-in a very close range such as 0-3 meters (No Cooldown but 3 or 5 placement limit and once they are all placed they are slowly gained back during the CD timer). I feel this gives a better idea and immersion behind the fact that you are placing an actual trap. It should take you out the fight for a quick couple of seconds but possibly deal more damage than what was showcased if triggered which would make leaving the fight worth it. With that damage in mind maybe making it into a destroyable item or have a disarm for balancing purposes but also a notification letting you know it has been destroyed/disarmed. This could not only help you know someone is coming down a path you trapped off but also give them a chance to get past it safely.
Now on that note if a person say has a Mage Secondary then the trap animation that was showcased is perfect due to the fact that they'd have an spectral augment letting you place it further and the current damage for the trap is perfect too.
Hello glorious community,
[*] How do you feel about the Ranger Archetype Update ?
It looks very good - especially for a Class still in Development. It also "feels" exactly how i hope and image a Ranger Archetype will play out.
Although there might be the Ranger-Player from World of Warcraft in me speaking.
I like how the Ranger can inflict Amounts of Damage that can threaten even a Tank of what i shall just assume is another Character with the same Gear-Strength and Character Level,
even though the Tank did not fight back in this Presentation. I also like the fact - that when a Tank has a Healer, the Ranger can simply forget about taking down the Tank, as long as the Healer is nearby and can heal him.
Strong Damage - but not invincible. I compared the HP/Life Points of the Ranger with the Tank and like, that the Ranger as a most likely Damage-Dealer Class, has no way of being same as "tanky" and durable as the Tank Class.
Meaning depending on the Situation, a Ranger will have either an Advantage, or a serious Disadvantage over a Tank in PvP. I can not imagine a Ranger doing well in an enclosed Space like a tiny House, against a Tank using Melee Attacks.
The Mechanics shown seemed very cleverly designed. That one can "tighten" the Area and Radius of an AoE-Ability, but holding the Button to activate it down a little bit longer than just releasing the Button instantly again.
Or the other Way around.
Amazing looking designed Jump-Abilities, be it the Ability which can "root" the Enemy from above - or the One which makes the Ranger more maneuverable in general - and can be optimised to function in all Directions desired.
My very first Impression of the Ranger is a very good one. Well done. 🙂 👍
[*] What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype ?
Of Course i imagine a capable Ranger-Player to be a valuable Ally, right now. Unimportant if it is in either PvE or PvP. And especially in PvE i bet a Hunter can nicely help my own Character to exchange and share Aggression of an aggro'ed Mob.
Lastly - right now i think Rangers would make "awesome" Accomplices for Ambush Situations in PvP. 😈
One or a few Hunters in hiding nearby a higher Ground would be able to turn any Tide against a few PvP Opponents who chase my own Character, thinking i am alone.
[*] Are there similar archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike ? If so, please explain !
The only Comparison i have, is the One that probably very many People have - who played World of Warcraft.
The Ranger is very much like the Ranger/Hunter from WoW. And in all the good ways, i wish to mention here. The only Concern i have, is the Worry that during the Years, Developers could decide to completely change the Ranger several times,
in Regards of how the Ranger will " feel " when being played. What i personally DISLIKED very very much during all my Years when i played Classes in WoW,
is the Fact that Blizzard - without fail - changed Classes i loved to play " SEVERAL. times. " in a way, that it completely ruined my Fun with playing them.
- I loved to play the Combat-specced Rogue.
What happened to it ? It was completely destroyed and replaced with a cheap Pirate-Imitation for a Skill Tree.
- I loved playing a Demonhunter/Illidari during the Expansion Legion when it got introduced.
What happened to it ? It was completely changed starting the Expansion "Battle for Azeroth" right after Legion,
in a way that my Character felt not only horribly weaker (mutilated) compared to before - but all Mechanics i enjoyed during Legion, were gone.
- > "That" - was also One of the very Main Reasons,
i took a Break/Pause from playing WoW - for FOUR - whole - Years.
- I loved playing a Hunter ( Ranger ) during Shadowlands.
So i came to love playing the " Marksman-Skill Tree /Specc " of the Class. I especially loved an Ability i could activate once every Minute,
that allowed me to rapidly fire a Quickfire-Ability with DOUBLE the Speed -> or shoot a stronger Shot i had to charge up for a Second or "over" a Second - Two Times at once, every time.
What happened to that Ability ? It was simply deleted - DESTROYED - in one of the Updates a while before or after the Release of the Expansion Dragonflight.
Why ? Why the ONLY - ONE - ABILITY - that made it for me so very much Fun to play my Ranger-Character with ?? The One Ability i loved to use so much, in both PvE and PvP.
The Fact that a certain Company "KEEPS" always ruining my Fun with every single Class i want to play -> is also One of the very Main Reasons, that i will finally show World of Warcraft the Door,
once Ashes of Creation finally hits the Stage.
I loved World of Warcraft for a long time - but i would love to remember it as the Game i loved. Yes, i have absolutely Zero Desire to keep playing a Game, that KEEPS DOING Changes that anger me deeply and a lot, every - single - g~damn - time, when i played the Game for a while and had a lot of Fun with one of the Classes.
I just hope that Intrepid Studios will NOT repeat the exactly same aggravating and Fun-killing Deeds of "completely" changing Classes and their Mechanics in how the Classes function,
everytime Players love to play a certain, specific Way with the Classes concerned.
I just hope, when the Ranger of Ashes of Creation will see the Light of Day, we will keep everything that will make this Class a lot of Fun to play.
😌
🙏
Overall you can clearly see the passion in the design, and I really like the mobility and feel.
Marks - I think Marks have a lot of potential for some really cool split second situational decision making. Currently, they seem to do really similar things (more damage), but you could really expand on this to maybe give some form of utility as well. So at the last second you could decide if you need the utility, or the pen/crit.
Mobility - I will avoid discussing the cooldowns as I'm sure that will get tuned as you said. In general the freedom that ranger seems to have with aerial mobility seems very fun. I can imagine things like disengage into 180 airstrike midair if its possible, as it seems like disengage finishes its actual animation mid air and then just lets you drift. I am curious about the sprint ability also giving them root immunes on top of the cleanse + movespeed, this seems to be fairly overloaded, but maybe you want the cd to feel meaningful and not get immediately negated by something else.
Feel of the DPS - the machine gun feel is a little odd to me, I don't hate it but I'm not sold on it either. It looks like magic missiles, something a mage would have. I would enjoy it if the curve on the flights of the arrows was dialed back a lot as well.
Scatter Shot is Sick - I really really love that Scatter Shot focuses into a thin lined template. I think this is exactly the type of ability that Ranger is desperately missing to make it feel like a real marksman.
More Thin Line Templates - The biggest issue that I have with your current direction is how much every ounce of important DPS automatically lands on the target. It seems overall, the skill ceiling could be immense but it is quite low, and I understand that you want the archetype to be approachable. I would consider adding more of these line templates like Scatter Shot but for Single Target abilities, and without the need of such a large windup like Scatter has.
Augment Ideas - If you are against adding thin lined templates (skillshots, whatever) to base abilities, then consider adding them to augments. For example: Headshot clearly connotates an ability that requires precise aim. What if you could augment Headshot to be a line template like the focused Scatter Shot, but it would do more damage? You really have the freedom to do this with many of Rangers abilities. This would give a variety of playstyle options to Rangers. If you wanted to choose this augment, well for a while it would be strictly worse. But over time with enough practice, it could be quite strong. I really think it would give the players who really enjoy having a large mechanical skill ceiling something to work towards, while still keeping the baseline Ranger strong.
So, I feel that the arrows need to have more strength in the impact, and a sound that make us feel that impact.
I observed too that the way the char walk when attacking is a little strange, the body work in the way that my mind didn't conceive well.
The footprints are out, is it on purpose?
I love the effects, less light and more vivid colours, I think it's a good way to follow, because in a raid, if we have a lot of skills in the screen will make us miss the gameplay.
The trap is good, have a great skin, but need more refinement, and I'm in doubt if a liked or not the size.
Comments
The only ability i consider to be a skillshot right now is a scatter shot charged to a line. That projectile travels straight in a line but stays on the ground level. This projectile can also miss the target as seen here
Abilities like Snipe and Headshot should function more as a skillshot that you can also aim up and down rather than making the character follow the target and being a tab target homing missile
How the ability works now is you have to have a target, then press the ability and start charging and releasing. Then the projectile flys to the target you pressed the ability on before starting to charge, making it impossible to change your mind mid cast if you decide you want to hit another target instead.
I Have a solution that i feel would work and make the abilities and gameplay feel more like what i consider to be Action Combat
Make Snipe and Headshot able to be charged without a target.
in TAB mode, make a crosshair appear on the screen when pressing the ability, then AT THE END of the charge animation when the projectile would go off, have the projectile hone in on the target you have your crosshair over.
This way it would feel more action, but have a lower skill ceiling than a true projectile and not deal with desync issues.
Thundering Shot should work like Mage Lava Storm in A1, where the template appears but you can still aim the ability
in TAB mode Bear trap should work as it does now, but in Action Mode it should work like Lava Storm also
No.
Just because it's not an action-combat game, doesn't mean there won't be any complexity, and a lot of skill and learning involved in actually being good at playing your class.
I just don't understand where this idea comes from. Just because you don't have to aim all of your abilities, doesn't make the skill ceiling "very tiny". There's still positioning, timing, learning what your class can or cannot do, using the right ability at the right time, combos, movement, building your class correctly (in terms of the skills and the gear), and probably some other things I forgot to mention.
It's far from having "a tiny skill ceiling".
I agree kind of.
What I'm hopeful for, is that some of these abilities would be the augmented versions instead.
For example, the lightning arrow, I would really love it that was the augmented version of some ability, when you combine a Ranger + Mage. It would just make so much more sense that way.
On the impact. I feel like if you are using choosing to use a longer combo you should really feel it in the time it takes to pull off the full combo. A player should visually see the build up to the last hit in the combo for both themselves and for in pvp. With the attack speed being so fast and the barrage of projectiles there is no indication at all. Players will basically be expected to track their buffs and debuffs in the middle of combat to see if someone got a combo off on them. A distinct 1...2...3....4 in cadence would feel more impactful and be easier to track. It should not be something easy to pull off without outside help from allies.
On the attack speed. The barrage of projectiles looks more like an ability not a basic attack. I like the idea of adding bonus projectiles with buffs or arrow types but there has to be some kind of delay between attacks so you can distinctly see your bonus projectiles. A 1-0.5 second delay between basic attacks would go a long way. It should start on the higher end with no gear and scale down if a player builds attack speed. This would also make combo focused builds have a more obvious build path in their gearing.
https://d28xe8vt774jo5.cloudfront.net/champion-abilities/0022/ability_0022_Q1.webm This is a good example of what I mean. In the second half of the ability she shoots several projectiles in a burst with a delay between. Should look to emulate this.
Snipe also seems like it would be mandatory as an opener in pve. Mobs should probably react to a ranger casting it on them to make it more interesting and not a sure thing every pull.
Snipe for example could be turned into a skill shot and get a piercing/longer range effect on it for the trade off
All hard CC (stun/knockdown/trips/pulls towards) for example should be a skill shot or require set up btw for any kit that has them. super impactful skills should require some skill to land imo.
That being said loved the show case some small things i realy like it change to name plates and dmg number look nicer.
the corruption penalty seems like a good place you get 1 kill before corruption hits you seems good
Skills looked clean and not over the top
mushroom mob death animation was great leaving there little caps behind
Some improvements
- Lightning seems a bit off
- Named mob didnt seem to do anything unique just fat HP pool, would of been nice to see a unique skill/mechanic on it like shooting a web at somone and pulling them back to the spider for example
Stealth Mechanic for Rangers: It would be fantastic to introduce a hide feature for Rangers, adding a subtle layer of stealth without overpowering the class. Drawing inspiration from Aion, Rangers could possess a "Hide 1" ability, while Rogues or Assassins wield a more potent "Hide 2" ability visible to very few classes but definitely to Rangers. This dynamic could foster strategic gameplay, with the visibility of Hide 2 limited during its cooldown. While I understand the availability of different archetypes, a personal preference for the Rogue archetype solely for the stealth ability is a testament to the appeal of such features.
*Hide I enters basic stealth for 30s~50s. The skill decreases the movement speed by 40% while in effect.
Can't be used during battle.
-No buffs can be cast while in Hide I, any buff cast will break stealth.
*Hide II - You enter advanced stealth for 40 seconds~1 minute. Decreases your movement speed by 20% while in effect.
Can't be used during battle.
-Up to two buffs can be cast while in Hide II without breaking stealth.
Personal Buffs: Introducing more personal buffs, such as a temporary 25% increase in attack speed for 10 seconds or a percentage reduction in cooldowns, would add depth to gameplay. Consider integrating attack speed enhancements into existing abilities like "Lightning Reload" for a seamless and synergistic experience.
*Bestial Fury I - for 1m, the Atk Range of Bows decreases by 15 meters while Attack increases by 50% and Atk Speed increases by 20%.
Expanded Trap Options: Diversifying the Ranger's trap arsenal with options like slow traps, poison traps, silence traps, and an armor penetration trap that temporarily weakens armor for arrows to bypass could enrich strategic choices for crowd control and damage over time.
Bow Attacks and Longbow Dynamics: Clarification on whether the showcased bow attacks apply exclusively to the shortbow or extend to the longbow is essential. Understanding how cooldowns and ranges are affected when using a longbow would provide valuable insights. A potential adjustment, such as an extra 5 or 10 meters of range with a longbow, could enhance the differentiation between bow types.
Can't wait to see more about this archetype in particular! I would actually love to see a Rogue showcase soon as well and maybe a showcase on mixing and matching the archetypes and what that might look like.
Can you do a crazy 1v8 play like that a in tab target combat with similar gear as everyone else?
No, not even close; you press tab then 123 cc boom boom and it's over. Can't dodge anything. This is what I mean by skill ceiling.
This fight lasted 27 seconds (sped up x2), it isn't just a drop of a meteor on a crowd. With all due respect, I think whoever advocates for tab-target is out of touch of what a good combat is like.
I am most excited by the skill ceiling of the ranger archetype, comparatively to the other showcases provided there is a clear emergence of skill related abilities being developed E.G Bear Trap, Scatter Shot, Hunts / Marks. This for me is what I've been desperately waiting to see & I am very happy to see it. I feel like disengage & Air Strike is perhaps a bit too far of a step in terms of mobility and would prefer a smaller distanced dash that decreases damage taken for a short period afterward? However, this is dependant on the remaining melee archetype showcases and the mobility provided.
I'd also like to raise a toast to VFX, animation & environment teams for the job they have done. The toning down of the effects for the ranger are excellent & the environment is looking extremely unique. I would like to see the mushrooms ditched for a mob type that looks like it belongs there as they looked a bit out of place.
I'm not particularly concerned about anything at this stage as the evolution of the ranger to this point has quelled *some* concerns I had for combat. However, I would like to raise attention to a couple of points of personal preference / aesthetic:
All in all, very impressed with what I'm seeing and looking forward to testing in Q3. I also think it was a very good choice to go with Q3 for A2 release
- the archer felt more like a mage. I would have understood if what was presented was the ranger-mage class for example, but I for one would like it more if the ranger was more ''physical'' like the wow classic one is,
- the way the character uses the bow doesnt seem realistic enough. Looks a bit ''fake'' like a not-so-good actor going through the motions knowing it will all get CGI enhanced later.
- the mobs we saw were a bit underwhelming... they felt kind of out of place for such a map and just not cool enough.
- the trap was a bit.... over the top. Almost like a caricature. I hope there are talents/classes that make it hard to see and such.
besides this, yeah it was all great
taking rogue as sub class might give you stealth options for all classes btw potentially
Also, the more I have heard the devs talk about their work, the more I have gained confidence in them, and the future of Ashes of Creation.
Yeah I guess that's true, but for me personally I would want it for my Ranger. A ranger "class" without some sort of stealth or camoflauge just seems off to me, but maybe its a feature that's planned and just not shown yet.
I like that the shortbow ranger has a more rapid-paced, high-mobility combat style compared to the longbow ranger. I would definitely keep that around and lean into it as you go along. Similarly drastic differences in combat style should also be employed for users of different weapon types across all archetypes imo. GW2 did this extremely well and offered a variety of combat styles for every class by doing little more than swapping your weapon / talents.
Wand Mages could be more mobile with quicker, flashier, lower-damage spells and a better utility tool kit, being more articulate, precise, and detailed. Staff Mages could have longer cast times, more channeled abilities, and focus more on AoE / big-damage single target spells. Huge fireballs, concentrated lightning storms / hurricanes, large arcane damage buffers. The hovering blizzard / lightning orb spells come to mind here. Playing into a drastic look-and-feel difference between those two would be awesome.
Similar impacts on your abilities and playstyle based on weapon choice should be present for all archetypes, I think, and most should be fairly obvious / intuitive to design and play.
The animations, SFX, and VFX were great here - the main critique I have is that lighting projectiles (both in this showcase, as well as in the showcase for the Mage) felt particularly weak / underwhelming to me. I think they need more "oomph". You're channeling lightning, not a little zap of static electricity. The AOE blast on the lightning arrow was decent, but the projectile itself felt wimpy. It also moved through the air a little too slowly imo. Lightning happens in the blink of an eye with profound intensity and visual / auditory force. I think the lightning arrow should show itself charging up as it's nocked against the bow, then once its energy peaks, fire from the string in an almost explosive fashion, hurtling towards its target, and causing a huge crash of power upon impact. I would give similar critique to any lightning based attacks for the mage as well. If you're channeling the powers of Zeus / Thor, it should bloody well feel like it.
That being said, I also thought it was strange that lightning spells were part of the ranger's base toolkit. To be honest, that really feels like a ranger/mage class ability. Perhaps the exact same ability could be re-VFX/SFX'd into an Explosive Shot ability that involves a lit pack of explosive at the end of the arrow that causes the same type of AOE explosion if it's shot from far enough away (the fuse needs enough time to burn down in order to go off?). The ability would work almost exactly the same, and could then be modified into lightning arrow if a mage augment is chosen? I think that would feel more in line with the natural/survival aspect of a ranger.
Every other ability looked like a lot of fun to me. I think more types of traps will be fun to implement, and I look forward to seeing a more fleshed-out version of the hunts/marks system.
My only other complaint is one I've had for a while - and that's that very few of the creatures shown in the open world really look like they belong there. I'm getting a bit off-topic now, and of course, I understand if the chosen mobs were just picked and placed at random for the sake of the video recording, but I hope I won't find sentient mushrooms walking around in the winter, or fluorescent, ice-blue spiders that look like they belong in the far northern tundra wandering around southern meadows just because it's winter time. I know it's a high-fantasy game, but there has to be some attention paid to suspension of disbelief. Again, if they were just random mobs dropped in a zone for a ranger showcase, I apologize, but I've seen a lot of zany looking creatures in streams over the years, and rarely do the fantasy ones ever look like natural denizens of their environs. Imo, if you have fantastical looking creatures with unnaturally bright colors and such, then they need to have equally fantastical looking areas to call home.
Thanks again for the great stream, looking forward to the end of next Summer!
i cant think of a single game where ranger had stealth or camo, closest i can think of was camo from woodelf in crowfall.
Edit: ohh wait i beleive ranger had invis in everquest atleast till animals as a spell but i can think of anything recentish
Great.
-What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype?
Everything.
-Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?
I hope that not only I get the benefit from the mark I apply on the target but my teammates or other players also gets the benefit from my mark. Mark of the Raven for example, it can be ranger gets 100% proc chance but teammates get 50~75% proc chance if it’s too powerful.
I want to see more different traps, and you can look into Dragonhunter’s/Ranger’s/Thief’s trap skills in GW2, and I'm not sure that allow ground targeting to set trap in that far range is good.
Love Imbue Ammo skills, want to see further develop the bleed one for example maybe can do more damage when the target is moving if level it up into higher level. Maybe add a powder egg one, empty an egg and put different powders and scarps in the egg put it on trick arrowhead and shoot it to enemy to make enemy temporary blind or can't breathe to root enemy in place for few seconds just like the effect pepper gun provide.
-Are there similar archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
Love Dragonhunter, Ranger and Thief in GW2.
I feel the sound effects of arrow shots are better than last ranger update, you are in right direction in my opinion. Please don't take the direction like BDO or Elden Ring, shooting arrows in real world just doesn't feel any close to those games, the camera shake and the VFXs to show the weight/power of weapon/shot is very awkward. Please find good example and feeling from reality and transform those into the game.
Last, the short bow design is not ok looks more awkward in action, please fix those not good bow designs in future.
↓Good youtube channel to learn things about creating games.↓
Masahiro Sakurai on Creating Games:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCv1DvRY5PyHHt3KN9ghunuw
Really? Hunters in WoW have camoflauge, Ranger in Aion had Hide, LOTRO had Hunter camoflauge, GW2 with certain builds you can run stealth, Dark Age of Camelot, Age of Conan, I mean Rangers have even had stealth in Dungeons and Dragons for forever so I don't know exactly what you mean? Stealth is a very common theme in the Ranger world across all genres, its part of their lore. They are Hunters who stalk their prey, it only makes sense to give them something "stealthy".
I mean it's plenty possible to have outplay potential in a tab based game. There are mechanical elements to tab games just not as much with aim (though it can be with aim if there are skill shots/placed abilities). You have all the positioning elements etc. that you have with an action game.
You're obviously exaggerating with "press tab then 123 cc boom boom and it's over". I would use WoW as the best example; there is plenty of outplay potential and combining your offensive skills with your cc and mobility skills is one of the ways to express yourself and separate the skilled players from the average one. If the game has a good pool of abilities similar to WoW, then I think outplay potential could be higher but that also is down to how Intrepid balance the game.
In that clip, is that one skilled player vs 7 other skilled players? Or 1 skilled player vs 7 other below average players?
Someone like Xaryu is a good example (considered world's best Mage in WoW, or at least has been at some points) -
A) Big upgrade from the previous showcases. Very cool skills so far, big plus for exchanging "dead zone" for skill distance properties (like with the shock skill). "We removed it because it wasn't fun" and found a solution, great job! Also love the mobility given when performing abilities and the philosophy "we want to give players agency over their movement", yes! more!
Q) What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype?
A) I haven't (sadly) played the archetype yet but i'm excited to try it out. Looking at it, it looks fun. But playing is always different from watching. It looks fast paced, impactful, and at a glance there seem to be quite a bit of build options already with the skill tree.
Q) Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?
A)
- Love the skilltree having an actual important impact. Abilities AND passives especially.
- Comboing with those off global cd marks looks fun to do as well.
- I love the dual purpose of skills depending on the situation. For example scattershot allowing for a wide or narrow shot depending on your situation. Fantastic idea, more of these dual purpose skills i'd say!
- The Airstrike movement/air strafing is great. I also love that mobility skills that jump, ACTUALLY jump, and you can traverse from lower to higher ground. More often than not these jump skills never allow you to move over the smallest bump in other games, so i love that it's possible here.
- Great take on the trap ability. Often a skill that's underwhelming and/or just not viable, but its such a staple for a hunter/ranger class. Great that the skill isn't tossed aside because of it and a solution is sought instead!
-
The only feedback piece i have is that it would be great if the momentum carries through when you use the "disengage" ability. For example: In the showcase video on the official AoC YT channel - at 32:47
Other thoughts:
- I'm looking forward to see if Longbow is/can be a more methodical playstyle than the rapidfire shortbow.
- I love that there's no ammunition pool that you have to replenish constantly.
- Great work, keep it up!
the positives:
Vfx was better than previous showcases, animations were solid for the most part, I liked how the marks were off Global Cooldown and can be used during other spellcasts. Liked the agency given to the player with Air Strike and the Disengage abilities. liked how you can spec into the omnidirectional jump too. Cc breaks are a positive. Liked the use of situational abilities like the arrow types and marks.
Areas of improvement:
How do you feel about the Ranger Archetype Update?
I believe that the update for the Ranger archetype represents a promising future for the combat system (other classes), but it still needs further adjustments to reach its full potential.
The following "essay" will/should answer the other questions from my perspective.
Visuals & UI:
I generally appreciate the visuals of the abilities since they are easily distinguishable, making them easier to respond/counter to.
Given that we do not yet know the quantity of possible conditions, buffs, and debuffs, I see it as problematic if their numbers become overwhelming and difficult to keep track of, especially during intense fights.
Regarding the skill trees: the UI still needs a more improved structure (skills).
Movement Abilities:
The movement itself looks good at first glance, but I will need to test it myself in order to provide accurate feedback. The options in the settings are part of it.
Air Strike:
Using abilities like air strike can be enjoyable from a movement perspective, but it can lead to gameplay imbalance when factoring in the environment and the advantage of being able to navigate on objects like rock ledges, which melee fighters may not be capable of.
It is important to keep the eyes on this aspect. Personally, I appreciate gameplay that relies on the environment, aside from the usual choke points found in every game (AoE gameplay). Overall, this introduces a new level of gameplay and skill.
Disengage:
I like the idea if possible, of having a 180-degree(character turns instantly around, Gw2) setting that allows you to dodge forward instead of backward.
So far what we have seen, the non movement and movement abilities lack defense abilities like avoiding damage or blocking. Everything revolves around damage.
Non Movement Abilities:
Overall, I prefer abilities that allow movement while casting since being stuck in one place disrupts the momentum and overall the gameplay fun.
Snipe:
Since Steven didn't move, players probably can't move with this ability while it's charging.
In my opinion, it requires some redesign. There are multiple ways to achieve this. For example, the ability could gradually slow down as you charge it and come to a complete halt if overcharged, resulting in additional damage. Alternatively, the movement speed during casting could be reduced to 50-75%.
Raining Death & Scatter Shot:
In my opinion, the scatter shot also needs to be reworked. The earlier you activate the skill, the further back you jump, whereas you shouldn't jump back if you cast it almost to the end. The jump backwards should also be increased. Overall, I dislike the skill because it's static.
Both "aoe" abilities are weird to look at and look like copied from a mobile game, I guess it was designed that way for action combat gamers, but I honestly don't like the solution of it.
Overall, I'm currently missing too many hybrid skills.
However, as we haven't seen all the skills and class combinations yet, this could change.
Even though a Ranger is more of a single target damage class, I hope the game doesn't end up like Throne and Liberty with almost no CC and 90% single target abilities. (Yes, I have tried the Korean version.)
Instant Abilities:
I am very glad that we are able to use several skills at the same time, which increases the skill level.
Overall, I hope to see more on multi-skills like blink dps combo and other skills in the future.
Marks:
I think the abilities are pretty common, some buff you, some give negative stats to the enemy and some are combo related. Not much to say about this except that we need to test it to see the impact, especially with the gear stats.
Regular Abilities:
Overall, the amount of arrows nuking out of the wooden bow during auto attacks like a minigun is just bad for immersion. In my opinion 50% of the arrows should be removed from the basic attack, but keep the same damage. The other abilities who can spike quickly for a short period of time are another story and I like them.
I can only repeat what I said back then, that it's nice to shoot around a corner to a certain level/degree.
Additional feedback:
I'm not the biggest fan of the bear traps for various reasons. Depending on how they work, rangers could just stand in the cages or kite around them, which could be annoying for melees, but that depends on a lot of abilities, like cc breaks and more, that we haven't really seen yet. I hope some movement abilities offer cc breaks too, for example the Ranger air dash.
As mentioned before, I don't like the way Aoe is handled on the Ranger, I prefer the oldschool type, aim(range) and cast where you want it.
The damage feedback looks good.
I probably have more to say, but I've been typing for too long again, so I'll leave it at that point.
[Edit: I also like that the game looks more skill based now, more damage against mobs etc, so solo leveling is also possible. Skill should be important, if you are good you can kill an elite mob solo, if you are bad you need 3 people.]
Going to use League as a common ground as there is a high likelihood we both have somewhat of an idea how it functions.
Examples and Parallel thematic elements: Miss Fortune ult, Kog Maw orbwalk, Caitlyn and Akshan ult (with the caveat that damage increases with longer charge) (capped?) I see this already represented in "Snipe"
Forcing ranged dps to scramble should feel more like Vayne and Lucian, (Pocket Sand! Cloaking, Decoys, etc) like Gnar flinging his boomerang backwards trying to fill passive bar... a hint of desperation to reinforce that the core thematic identity of a ranger IS Trad longer ranged dps, while remaining loyal to prioritizing scaling in mobility over damage. (Not as much utility, as that would reduce the need for cooperation.
Set up for "ranged exodia" should feel "boom head shot" or "mowing them over" "scarface"
Again, I believe this is understood already. *Big thumbs up*
Being pushed "out of pocket" more like: scrambling, close calls, coinflip, reaction based, forcing you to "make a run for 1st down.. but we're all a little scared the quarterback is gonna get injured"
SUSPENSE!!!
Understand basic philosophy about weapons, any weapon for any class, however, LONG KNIFE(VES) VIBE IS IMPORTANT TO RANGER THEMATIC IDENTITY (smoothen out bow to long knife weapon swap?)
Going melee should feel a little desperate, maybe conveyed in animation and other visual audio layers?
Ranger thematic includes inherent thematic tags: Survivalist, Hunter, Pocket Sand
I believe a good portion of people really like the "beast tamer" vibes
I vibe much more with gloomstalker (Twitch "opening up" from stealth) personally
Gloomstalker seemes harder to balance than trad ranger though, unless beast has taunt lite, but then that cuts into other roles, is that okay?
For recent comparison: Remnant 2 handler fun to start with but large crutch, as it absorbed too much aggro imo, creating los corner cheese strats which circumvent game design
But that game is meant to be speedrun so...
Contrasting of identities based on how much pressure hunter is under:
In pocket: Clean, Precise, Powerful
Out of pocket: Tense, Increased Apm Play, Less overall dps to incentivize allies to aid in returning the ranger to an idyllic position. Lends to teamwork, and cooperation. IE: Goodwill and Appreciation
"Squad" integrity leads into player retention.. obviously
Have access to a reliable, seasoned group to play test with.
Ezreal ult similar, but he possesses much more of a "caster" type feel
Fire and Forget vs Calculated Strike
And it doesnt need to be incredibly flashy, there can be a moment of "oh s**t!! we're getting shot @!!"
Slowly locking in and slowing the character down while simultaneously increasing damage.
It is a GOOD thing that at least SOME projectiles can be purposely or even accidentally body blocked, while staying true to trad MMO "Tab Targeting"
Great combination
1. high damage w/locking on minigame, lining up perfect shot, can't move during
2. base line, bread and butter, no fuss, higher damage, can move while casting but slows down over duration, maybe critical fail if held to long to help with balance so people can't camp with it and destroy meta
3. series of precision attacks ending in status effect or similar debuff, utility support spec, bleeding or some other dot, OR gives caster dps buff, or frenzy, like press the attack or vayne's w, rampage from Remnant 2 again
I thought it was moving in the right direction. The combat and abilities definitely looked better than the last showcase, and I loved the style of Steven taking the time to demo each ability in order.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype? Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?
The overall ranger gameplay looked fun and exciting. It just looks like it will be a nice mobile fun archetype to play. My concern is that the overall design philosophy of AoC will be in conflict with the ranger class fantasy. For example, the fantasy of a ranger is typically some sort of fast likely armored hunter (maybe with a bow or a pet). Most of the abilities were centered around using a bow, but in AoC I should be able to select any weapon/armor combination. I am concerned that a wand/full plate hunter will not feel like a hunter, or that the hunter will be limited compared to other archetypes because the class fantasy is more niche.
Are there similar archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
I loved the ranger class in GW2. I would say that was a really great take on the ranger/hunter archetype, and it seems to have some similar themes with the AoC ranger design. Specifically, I thought the trap specialization up through the first expansion (it may have changed since) was amazing, and I have some great memories of "catching" assassins in my traps during PvP.
This was a nice stream presentation of the Ranger class.
a) Long Bow vs Short Bow w/abilities that cater to each base attack range. It would be neat if there were either specific abilities that could only be used with a long bow, or all abilities Max/min range adjusted based on bow type used. When using a Long Bow maybe getting 5-10 extra meters to trade off for their slower attack speed?
b) Snipe Ability - Nicely done animation. It reminds me of the movie Immortals, with the Epirus Bow visuals. My favorite bow ability to use in any game is Ashe's Ultimate from LoL.
c) Basic attacks and Barrage ability w/short bow seem like a machine gun.
One of the most unappealing aspects of New World's pvp combat meta and balance is getting machine gunned down by ranged/casters in their Outpost Rush mode. It's gotten so boring for the masses that the ranged meta has basically killed off the mode over the past couple of years. Having numerous ranged/mage players burst you down with tab-target machine gun attacks is going to be tough to balance and will not feel fun as an interaction for the melee victims who are absorbing 50 hits in a matter of 2 seconds.
The range limit looks more constrained in this demo so I appreciate that.
d) Counters - The Ranger looks to be a strong spec with its mobility. I like the direction your team is taking the role, but the counter appears to be hard cc spam at this point. Often players dislike being hard cc locked but with how fast the Ranger attacks and weaves abilities, and how mobile it is for disengagement, it looks like hard cc lock down will be the obvious response to this build's strengths. If melee doesn't have sufficient cc and gap closing these mobile range builds are going to go unchecked. Hope there's proper checks in place planned.
e) Area of Effect Decals - I like your current approach with the ability charges only being visible by the user until they're cast. One thing New World does well is each ability for their weapons have a unique animation windup visual that other players can see and help decipher your actions. When a Fire Mage goes to cast certain abilities they'll raise their staff high above their head, or a life staff user will clap above their head, Hammer users will use very distinct jumping animations that tip off their ability use for reacting to as an opposing player and this adds a skill element to the game. Some of the bow abilities shown in the Ranger showcase have unique windup animations, others are pretty generic. The more you can specialize these the better, as opponents can learn from repeated gameplay when to dodge, mitigate, heal etc. based on the incoming ability attack aimed at their team. The more generic the ability cast animations are the less skillful the gameplay will be. It will be more generic, team low, healer heals rather than more active and quick-reflex gaming based on counters.
If a player is charging an ability maybe their weapon or player model could shine/radiate an aura to demonstrate it to others around them.
f) Bear Trap - Too large. Imagine large scale pvp and how many of these traps are going to be littered on the field of battle. It will be obnoxious. Entering gates and one bow user could trap the entire entrance with 2-3 traps in what 10-15 seconds of prep time? Can probably create a large field of these traps leading up to gates with a few bow users and really slow down the pace of pvp. They also look silly with how large they are in the world compared to player models on the battle field. Maybe let them be targetable by enemies and destroyed?
g) The blacks are now a wash of black with no detail in the game for me. Steven's player model is just a black silhouette on my monitor when in the shade. I don't have a 4k monitor but its pretty high end. The shading with the recent black changes made in the game have turned anything in the shade or darker bodies as a wash of black figures with zero detail. The game looked much better before these changes to black shading imo.
Nice job on the Ranger overall. Should be a fun class to play. Looking forward to seeing the others yet to come.
How do you feel about the Ranger Archetype Update?
It feels really great. I'm not much of a ranger player myself but I was totally into it during the livestream.
The skillset makes sense. Its variety is quite appreciable, and the ranger mechanisms like marking or special ammo type are very ranger-ish and likeable too.
Aoe damages, single target damages, long range skills, shorter range skills, traps, some mobility (love Air Strike). All of this felt good.
Also the visual effects were really, reaaally great. This Sniping ability... it really says "Hey ! It's gonna (beautifully) hurt. : )"
Thumb up for your way or approaching the talent tree too. Making choices to make our own character the way we enjoy it is very important, and much appreciated.
The variety of path these mechanisms open is also a big plus.
Overall it looks like you have done a great work to make some good ideas and thinking coming to life. Bravo
In a similar way, in group combat, when I see a ranger, I will tell one of my teammates, "hey, there is a ranger over there and if we don't deal with him now, then he will consistently put high damage numbers on our tank from afar uncontested" (with marks etc - side note I like the marks for this reason -) and maybe send the rogue or the ranger from our group over to fight him and keep him off of our tank. THIS is exactly the scenario and the situation that I see for a ranger in my head that would be loads of fun to think about strategy-wise playing as and against the ranger.
One thing that I have to agree with some of the other commentators in this forum is how cross-classing or archityping will work. This worries me a bit. I remember from the video, Mr. bossman had said that the archityping will be a modification of abilities and not new abilities. I understand that it would be difficult to make new abilities as it would pretty much be a different class altogether rather than a combination of two. However, please consider maybe putting one special ability in for each of the hybridized classes because I think this would add so much to the appeal of the hybrid classing and really make a player feel unique in the universe. Like oh, I decided to be a Ranger summoner, so I can summon a special pet that the other summoner hybrids cant because I am a ranger summoner (I could come up with a few ideas for this, a support pet that gives a player better vision, better accuracy, or even a boost of auto attack range to really emphasize that difficult terrain traversing ability) . Then again, this could still be a modification of a summoners ability so maybe I am wrong, but yeah, the hybridization is something that really drew me to this game in the first place because I haven't really found other games that have ever mastered this, and even dungeons and dragons struggles with multi-classing to a certain degree and that game is on paper.
Hope this helps and thank you to the Dev team for all of your hard work and effort to give your community what they want in a big MMO!
In my humble opinion I feel as though an animation during the placement should root in place as well as making the placement with-in a very close range such as 0-3 meters (No Cooldown but 3 or 5 placement limit and once they are all placed they are slowly gained back during the CD timer). I feel this gives a better idea and immersion behind the fact that you are placing an actual trap. It should take you out the fight for a quick couple of seconds but possibly deal more damage than what was showcased if triggered which would make leaving the fight worth it. With that damage in mind maybe making it into a destroyable item or have a disarm for balancing purposes but also a notification letting you know it has been destroyed/disarmed. This could not only help you know someone is coming down a path you trapped off but also give them a chance to get past it safely.
Now on that note if a person say has a Mage Secondary then the trap animation that was showcased is perfect due to the fact that they'd have an spectral augment letting you place it further and the current damage for the trap is perfect too.
It looks very good - especially for a Class still in Development. It also "feels" exactly how i hope and image a Ranger Archetype will play out.
Although there might be the Ranger-Player from World of Warcraft in me speaking.
I like how the Ranger can inflict Amounts of Damage that can threaten even a Tank of what i shall just assume is another Character with the same Gear-Strength and Character Level,
even though the Tank did not fight back in this Presentation. I also like the fact - that when a Tank has a Healer, the Ranger can simply forget about taking down the Tank, as long as the Healer is nearby and can heal him.
Strong Damage - but not invincible. I compared the HP/Life Points of the Ranger with the Tank and like, that the Ranger as a most likely Damage-Dealer Class, has no way of being same as "tanky" and durable as the Tank Class.
Meaning depending on the Situation, a Ranger will have either an Advantage, or a serious Disadvantage over a Tank in PvP. I can not imagine a Ranger doing well in an enclosed Space like a tiny House, against a Tank using Melee Attacks.
The Mechanics shown seemed very cleverly designed. That one can "tighten" the Area and Radius of an AoE-Ability, but holding the Button to activate it down a little bit longer than just releasing the Button instantly again.
Or the other Way around.
Amazing looking designed Jump-Abilities, be it the Ability which can "root" the Enemy from above - or the One which makes the Ranger more maneuverable in general - and can be optimised to function in all Directions desired.
My very first Impression of the Ranger is a very good one. Well done. 🙂 👍
Of Course i imagine a capable Ranger-Player to be a valuable Ally, right now. Unimportant if it is in either PvE or PvP. And especially in PvE i bet a Hunter can nicely help my own Character to exchange and share Aggression of an aggro'ed Mob.
Lastly - right now i think Rangers would make "awesome" Accomplices for Ambush Situations in PvP. 😈
One or a few Hunters in hiding nearby a higher Ground would be able to turn any Tide against a few PvP Opponents who chase my own Character, thinking i am alone.
The only Comparison i have, is the One that probably very many People have - who played World of Warcraft.
The Ranger is very much like the Ranger/Hunter from WoW. And in all the good ways, i wish to mention here. The only Concern i have, is the Worry that during the Years, Developers could decide to completely change the Ranger several times,
in Regards of how the Ranger will " feel " when being played. What i personally DISLIKED very very much during all my Years when i played Classes in WoW,
is the Fact that Blizzard - without fail - changed Classes i loved to play " SEVERAL. times. " in a way, that it completely ruined my Fun with playing them.
- I loved to play the Combat-specced Rogue.
What happened to it ? It was completely destroyed and replaced with a cheap Pirate-Imitation for a Skill Tree.
- I loved playing a Demonhunter/Illidari during the Expansion Legion when it got introduced.
What happened to it ? It was completely changed starting the Expansion "Battle for Azeroth" right after Legion,
in a way that my Character felt not only horribly weaker (mutilated) compared to before - but all Mechanics i enjoyed during Legion, were gone.
- > "That" - was also One of the very Main Reasons,
i took a Break/Pause from playing WoW - for FOUR - whole - Years.
- I loved playing a Hunter ( Ranger ) during Shadowlands.
So i came to love playing the " Marksman-Skill Tree /Specc " of the Class. I especially loved an Ability i could activate once every Minute,
that allowed me to rapidly fire a Quickfire-Ability with DOUBLE the Speed -> or shoot a stronger Shot i had to charge up for a Second or "over" a Second - Two Times at once, every time.
What happened to that Ability ? It was simply deleted - DESTROYED - in one of the Updates a while before or after the Release of the Expansion Dragonflight.
Why ?
Why the ONLY - ONE - ABILITY - that made it for me so very much Fun to play my Ranger-Character with ?? The One Ability i loved to use so much, in both PvE and PvP.
The Fact that a certain Company "KEEPS" always ruining my Fun with every single Class i want to play -> is also One of the very Main Reasons, that i will finally show World of Warcraft the Door,
once Ashes of Creation finally hits the Stage.
I loved World of Warcraft for a long time - but i would love to remember it as the Game i loved. Yes, i have absolutely Zero Desire to keep playing a Game, that KEEPS DOING Changes that anger me deeply and a lot, every - single - g~damn - time, when i played the Game for a while and had a lot of Fun with one of the Classes.
I just hope that Intrepid Studios will NOT repeat the exactly same aggravating and Fun-killing Deeds of "completely" changing Classes and their Mechanics in how the Classes function,
everytime Players love to play a certain, specific Way with the Classes concerned.
I just hope, when the Ranger of Ashes of Creation will see the Light of Day, we will keep everything that will make this Class a lot of Fun to play.
😌
🙏
Thanks for a great showcase
So, I feel that the arrows need to have more strength in the impact, and a sound that make us feel that impact.
I observed too that the way the char walk when attacking is a little strange, the body work in the way that my mind didn't conceive well.
The footprints are out, is it on purpose?
I love the effects, less light and more vivid colours, I think it's a good way to follow, because in a raid, if we have a lot of skills in the screen will make us miss the gameplay.
The trap is good, have a great skin, but need more refinement, and I'm in doubt if a liked or not the size.
Cya people!!
Cheers Intreprid.