[*] How do you feel about the Ranger Archetype Update? [*]
I feel conflicted because I like the general gameplay of the Archetype but not the way the team presents them to us.
[*] What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype? [*]
The agility and mobility in combat are the features that I like most about it.
If you play as a Ranger against melee players you know you have to stay away from your target or skill into abilities to overcome that weakness and surprise your foes with a multitude of CC and other control skills if they come close before you chip away their HP with Dots, procs and marked snipe combos.
Against ranged players you'd have to surprise them at best and strategize what skills are best to disable theirs and how to end the fight quickly.
If you play against a Ranger you know you have to close the gap or the Ranger will slowly but surely diminish your health to zero without you having a chance of damaging it. Most frustrating as a melee, but not of concern for other ranged archetypes who just also burn them down at a distance.
Setting up traps and root conditions on your targets is nice too, as long as it is a viable option and not one of these, 1 second afflicted or instant removed when shot mechanics... I'd like to have useful skills in my repertoire and not only class fantasy flavors... What if players are responsible for getting out of traps and root spells like doing a minigame, or button mash to get out faster but at least 3-5 seconds? I'd like that!
[*] Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?[ *]
So yes there are "some" things, what about crossbows and the whole pallet of other ranged weapons fitting into high fantasy?!
Only bow seems meh when other classes have more options in their field of expertise...
I know that you only want to provide skins for these but I'm sure there are options to implement other physical ranged weapons with full functional systems into the game for Ranger as it was viable to give the melee archetypes more than one weapon of choice... please reconsider. At least for after launch!
The shots (and in general melee strikes too) are way too fast.
Steven said we need to wait for the archetypes to be fully developed until the polishing stage where things like animation, and attack speed, will be worked on further, but I think attack speed, and especially melee combat has to feel right before I can say it's a good design to polish to perfection.
This showed me, that on that front you need to scale down the speed a bit or it's just a mush of skills flying through the scene without meaningful choices and impactful decisions.
It's the right direction on design but not quite there for me to enjoy without concerns.
It's not pure realism I know that but this goes more into the realm of hack and slay without the strategy needed to create a feeling of accomplishment when defeating an enemy with skill and not who can strike first and mash buttons faster...
Why do we need so many different marks for doing damage?
Why is there a red glowing shot in a green-designed class kit identity?????!!!!!
(Big misstep for the integrity of your design guidelines, as the next questions are about the same problem.)
Why are there electric shots without augments from the mage? (tho maybe changed when implemented)
Why does Steven want to summon a hound for the tracing utility skill without a summoner subclass, I would give that exact utility design to the summoner himself rather...
Don't overlap with the design of the other Archetypes and maybe future archetypes you consider adding, like a druid, monk, barbarian, artificer, whatever fits into the world.
Craft a clear identity for the archetypes that's one of the most important tasks you have to get right before fine-tuning the subclasses and other combat-related systems!!!
I'd also like to see a broader range of uses not only how the skills look and feel against a "player dummy"
How does it feel to play against NPCs?
Do the skills provide a round set of core functions in a PvX setting, against single mobs, elites, swarm enemies, bosses, and players who actually fight back?
( I mean you kinda showed that last point in a funny way almost dying... )
My core issue with your balance approach is, that you seemably not care about 1vs1.
I don't know how it actually will play out BUT I care very much about fair PVP.
There is nothing to say about what is fair and what is not because it's very subjective to the individual and the type of situation where we get confronted by that, but if I get the feeling that I do everything I can in the battle against another player and I always loose against that type of archetype I will be extremely frustrated...
Trust me there will be many situations, where I have to focus only on one particular player, not every part of the game will or should be group combat-related.
There must be strategies for EVERY archetype to use the skills to your advantage and if I have to jump from tree to tree or have to skill into every CC possibleor by pressing the keys of my keyboard behind my back while doing a 360 on a skateboard naked...
Players need viable options or the class is broken.
Not for everyone but for the majority who care for it and you don't want that to happen because I don't want that to happen either...
However... we will have to wait for A2 for more details about the gameplay for more precise feedback about the archetypes.
[*] Are there similar archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain! [*]
I like the Ranger/Bard from FFXIV because it is a round class with dots to maintain and procs, and resources to build up and spend throughout the fight. It's also reactive to play. It's a mix of buffing and weaving in OGCDs between the main skills which I like the most because it creates a fun dynamic playstyle without gaps where you have to wait significantly for cooldowns or spam insignificant filler skills. Using your skillset with strategy, reactive procs, and interweavable options is the perfect combat style for me which can be transferred in design to all other archetypes in general with their own kind of twist and flavor.
I assume there will be no global cooldown for main skills, so it's less frustrating than in most conventional tab-target games.
But when I think about New World's approach to a bow using "class" where you only had 3 useless skills to use...
The most fun was trying to hit headshots and skill shots from afar on moving targets I'd like that in Ashes too, but in the heat of the battle it is good to know I can switch back to tab target and I don't have to aim everything 100% accurate.
I would rather spend my time practicing my skill in using the right abilities than being frustrated all the time for not hitting perfect shots with every combat action... There needs to be a balance as always.
But I think beneficial headshots are not viable in a game like this.
Overall a successful showcase but stay closer to your design philosophy for future updates I know you can do it. You have proven to me on multiple occasions that your ambitions are no hollow buzzword fantasies.
Ranger Specific:
I would love to see different marks and hunts to have their corresponding colors (e.g. red for tiger, green for raven, blue for bear).
No just no, the green color spectrum is on purpose to identify the spells as ranger related.
But I agree on changing something to diversify the visuals more but that's kinda a polish issue for the animation team.
Great presentation. Quick aside: the character and armor models deserve superlatives, very cool.
And as someone who doesn't generally play ranged, I have to say I'd be tempted to play Ranger.
The key draws are the opportunistic sudden threat they bring, combined with mobility that pushes some traditional boundaries.
Like most other commenters it's hard to say much more without getting really dirty (ie: racking up playing hours and detailed experience of combat mechanics). Things like:
• how valuable is the mobility in tabT environment?
• how can I best play alongside, say, a pair of archers while playing other roles?
• in what ways does verticality in environment impact the archers (or ranged in gen), if at all
• how to make (or avoid) coordinated attacks by multiple archers on one target?
• other scenarios players smarter than myself discover or invent
You've definitely got my attention. I'm certainly going to play.
Bottom line is how the combat mechanics actually feel, in groups of various sizes and compositions in the open world. Skill should count.
Looking forward to Alpha 2 and major success!!
Cheers!
Casually Serious.
LFG: Open World, tight knit coordination, multiple roles, will travel.
- The rapid shot looks a little too 'heavy stormtrooper' to me. Too fast and too colorful. I want rapid fire to feel like 'tchunk....tchunk .... tchunk... tchunk' not 'PEWPEWPEWPEW'
It's funny but I honestly think this is a large percent of what makes combat fun and satisfying.
To get the right bip...bop...BOOM or cling...CLONK...cling...CLONK or dudududududu.
Combining the sound, visual and damage number to land and play with eachother perfectly is massive.
There is probably some science about this
The Multishot ability was my favorite from the showcase. It had unique gameplay, both versions of it seemed useful, and it looked cool to boot. Nothing too crazy, but it's a solid core ability that feels good and requires a bit more effort than just pressing a button to get full value out of it. Definitely worth the skill point
The leaping strike (I forget the name) was also much improved since the last time we saw it. I'm glad to hear that the designers are keeping a close eye on how these abilities feel to use and move around with.
Lightning Reload also seems like a great way to double-down on a specific tactic, depending on what the situation demands. And the versatility of being able to use it for an on-cooldown or off-cooldown ability really helps. Overall, I think it allows for a lot of tactical options in how you optimize it.
Criticism:
The basic attacks are way too rapid for my taste. I couldn't even tell how many hits were going out at that speed. Not only does it detract from the immersion (which I don't really care about), but it doesn't leave room for legitimate rapid-fire abilities/buffs. Barrage should be unique in it's power to put out multiple hits quickly (useful for applying the ammo bonuses, or for other per-hit effects). And I assume there will be Attack Speed bonuses available at some point (buffs or gear stats), which won't feel as impactful if basic attacks are already machine-gun pace.
I'm not too happy with all the buff abilities either. Ignoring the balance concerns, I just don't think it's feels right for a base Ranger (not a Bard secondary) to have that many buttons dedicated to buffs/debuffs. Especially if they're all simultaneous/instant cast, because that makes them ripe for macroing (the damage-oriented ones, at least). Why not just put those effects together in the first place. Or at least make them significantly different so they get used in different niches. The Hunts for example, could do more to define your overall playstyle. Like a damage bonus at long range or a constant movement buff for kiting. At least the Ammo buffs all seemed unique thanks to the different CC effects, so that's fine.
Also, I'm not sure what was going on with the rain of arrows VFX. I wasn't sure who was actually getting hit or how many times. But it sounded like y'all are already aware of its problems, so I won't belabor the point.
Quandry:
It was mentioned on stream that some abilities will require certain weapons to functions (like bows for Snipe, etc.). Which leaves me wondering how alternative weapons will actually work. I'm guessing that some abilities can be augmented to work with other weapons, but probably not all of them? If that's the case, then a Ranger (for example) would still have to carry a bow at all times so they could use their primary Ranger abilities. And if they wanted to mix in a few melee abilities, they would have to swap to a melee weapon. Maybe with a dedicated weapon swap button like GW2?
This is all wild speculation, because we don't know how many of these systems will work yet. So I'm asking for some more info on this in a future stream.
Environment looked great, ranger play looked smooth, and mob animations were impressive for a pre alpha 2 demo.
As someone who has always been pvp focused in their mmos my immediate thoughts on the kit. Yes I know there will not be a balance sweep for a long time but...
Minimum distance required for range bows- Why was this removed ? For one it negates any reason for a ranger to choose anything other than both bows for their kit. Secondly, a mobile range high dps class with cc should have some balanced handicap other than lower health especially with how low skill / how easy tab target range combat is.
Omnidirectional Disengage- Why would the Dev team not keep this as a skill a player had to choose and/or sacrifice other skill points to take on the tree ? Correct me if I am wrong but I thought I heard on the stream it was being removed from the tree to be imbedded into the original disengage skill. Important choices that come at a sacrifice in other areas of a class kit skill tree lead to better character building in my opinion.
Both these changes feel like they came from ranger player base point of view not concerned with balance but more focused on how to make the class kit superior in play over other class kits.
Overall I am mostly concerned with giving a range class multiple mobility abilities including speed movement increase buffs, multiple range CC including AE CC, a 50% increase crit chance via range on target seems very extreme....on top of their burst DPS, possible stealth mechanic we have heard of with the ranger kit, possible player tracking ?
Kiting range classes have always been one of the more challenging mmo aspects to get right. Kit looks good on paper and on the stream but perhaps too good.
Looking forward to testing it myself as well as seeing what possible anti-ranger class builds exist come alpha 2.
The Dünir Hold Mithril Warhammers,Thanes of the Keelhaul, Dünir scourge of the oceans, Warhammer First Fleet Command of The Dünzenkell Nation, friends to the Dünir Dwarves of the Dünhold.Hammers High!
About the skill trees, I dislike when games aren't detailed in what a skill does. For example, in the preview there were some skills that caused "heavy damage" or "increased damage." Rather than specific numbers, these are very ambiguous and prevent making informed decisions on skills to take. I think this in turns leads to people turning to guides rather than experimenting, leading to hard meta mentalities in the community. I.e, "if you're not following the guide you're bad." I'm against this attitude, and the game should present enough information that the player doesn't need to look outside the game to figure it out.
I feel that the attack speed with the shortbow is too quick, it goes beyond my suspension of disbelief. Especially the machinegun-like speed seen a few times. Maybe this can be solved with improved visuals, but when the bow fires faster than the arm appears to move, it takes me out of the fantasy. I would expect this visual discrepancy to only get worse at low frame rates.
The cloak that Steven's character was wearing had a noticeable stickiness to it. The upper half stuck to the character while the lower half fluttered in the breeze. The cloak that Keenan was wearing didn't have this issue and looked a lot more natural.
Was quite pleased with the showcase. It has come a long way and I love the improvements and new ideas being implemented. I certainly hope that the rangers will have options to have a short sword or something as a secondary option that you can smoothly switch to in combat to fight your foes as they draw in close. I love classes that are ranged but can still hold their own as their foes fall upon them. I assume archetypes will address this desire though and give that flexibility in gameplay.
Ranger is my class I always make first in every mmorpg I play. I think it looks absolutely amazing and I can't wait to play.
The only thing I would love for a game to add to a bow using class is accuracy training. I'm a bow hunter in the real world and the only thing that make me deadly is practice. if I don't shoot for a few weeks, I don't shoot as well. On the other hand, if I spend some time sharpening my skills, I'm deadly. if there was a range that rangers had to go and practice for a bit to give a little buff to penetration of damage, I think that would feel like the real deal. Just a small little buff kind of like a food buff, or even a clicky in the inventory called Targets?
Diffrent ammo types having diffrent colored arrows not just good for the ranger to pay attention to but in pvp players can be aware of what ammo type was just used.
The backflip disengage and the snipe abilities are exactly how players would expect them. A succesful snipe getting a buff for attack speed feels rewarding and Im happy to see you trying to make passive more interesting then just +1 to atack or +5 sec cooldown blah.
Weapons having their own trees to reward either more passive buffs or adding abilities as a choice feels like a good way to add a little more complexity to builds without complicating it too much.
Diffrent marks doing diffrent things like armor penetration or increased crit feels good against enemies with more health or armor situations so offer felxibility for a class that may have little health or average armor.
I like that scatter shot can be a cone or a snipe skill based on holding the button so good for group or single target.
Being able to control your character with airstrike instead of being stuck in place is a big plus as I don't like losing control of my character do to a bad button press and falling off a cliff lol.
Thundering shot is nice for rewarding playing at a distance and rewarding players who manage to gap close said ranger.
I like that lightning reload is basically a oh crap button and lets you use a cooldown skill on emergency.
Having a CC break for a paper class like Call of the Wild is a very important skill and could mean the life or death of a player in pvp/pve scenario.
I liked when steven dragged and dropped a skill it just moved places with the skill it replaced instead of disappearing.
Things I dont like about the showcase/skills:
Bear Trap area of effect is good but the trap itself might be too big /cartoony sized maybe shrink it by 25%.
Barrage seems a little too fast and might need to be tweaked back by 10% speed especially if the weapon skill tree has a extra shot benefit/speed buff stacked with the snipe speed buff might be a little crazyish. Not sure since havent seen other classes/outputs.
Shooting behind you while running feels like a bug that shouldn't happen so hopefully that will be improved.
Named mobs should have a special skill that seperates itself from regular mobs even if its just an effect like the bigger spider having glowing web attacks instead of regular web would be cool.
I'll split this post in two parts while trying not to be too long and boring. Firstly I'll be giving my opinion about the Ranger Archtype itself and, afterwards, my opinion about the direction I would consider interesting for all Archtypes in general.
Regarding the Ranger Archtype I think the overall approach is very well designed. The animations and spell effecfs look polished and the base kit matches what we expect from a ranger in MMORPGs. Furthermore, I think the shown kit have a lot of potential for learning the base concept for the Archtype, while still offering an acceptable learning curve on the Ranger's skill ceiling. The mechanic around Marks and Hunts fit perfectly in the archtype's fantasy.
Regarding the overall direction for all Archtypes, I would consider super interesting if all archtypes are more focused about tab targeting abilities (about 90-95% of the toolkit) and still having some impactfull skillshots, which would diferentiate low to average skilled players from high skilled players for that same Archtype (which would be the other 5-10% of the toolkit). If this is the case, even more casual players would feel compelled to play a certain archtype, as they would excel in 90-95% of their Archtype while still have those 5-10% as a progression goal on perfecting their chosen Archtype. For those who can't reach this 5-10%, they would still be viable of playing those 90-95% of their Archtype potential, which would not demotivated them to play the Archtype they like.
Also (and this is a bit off-topic), I would be pleased to see if some Archtype have some sort of utility skill. Something that make other think "oh, if we bring X Archtype on our group we would be able to do Y, which would not be possible without him, otherwise". As an example, the Rogue Archtype would be able to spot treasures and track hidden passages inside dungeons. This type of abilities add another layer of Archtype's fantasy, and the feel of being needed and useful.
Some ideas on utility skills for some Archtypes (i''m not that good with naming abilities, so don't blame me) : Ranger (problably more suitable for the Scout Specilization) Hints Pursuit - this skill would allow the Ranger to spot subtle hints on the environment which, if he follows them, would lead to discover an otherwise not findable mob inside the dungeon. There could be dungeons where this mob would be trackable by the hunter in every dungeon reset (some named mob with an appealing loot) and other dungeons where the mobs will not always the there. Also, the loot on this mobs, this could also support an hidden sub-system on Archtypes, being the Utility Progression, meaning this mobs could drop items that would increase the Ranger efficiency on Hints Pursuit, having higher level dungeons to require a higher efficiency on Hints Pursuit to allow the Ranger to discover the hidden mob on that specific dungeon. Let's call this mobs the "Utility Bosses" as they would serve the purpose of levling this Utility skills.
Archwizzard
Colossus Meltdown - The Archwizzard would be able to meltdown frozen doors/passages that would lead to Utility Mobs.
Warlock
Death Realm - The Warlock would be able to enter the Death Realm. Inside the Death Realm he would be able to see spirit ghosts from the past (which are not visible in the "Normal Realm") and interact with them. Some of this mobs would be Lore-focused but other could conjure a portal (both to Death and Normal Realms) to allow all members in the group to go thought it and access a room with an Utility Boss or an otherwise unaccessable treasure chest.
Anyways, Intrepid, thank you for all the hard work you've been putting into the game. The progress it's on point and on the right direction. Happy New Year, everyone|
First of all; thank you, Intrepid, for a wonderful 2023! There's been alot of huge strides in development this year, and the fact that we now have a year (and possible a quarter) to A2 is amazing! Good job everyone and keep it up!
The Ranger... the classic bowman-long-range-snipe-guy.
How do you feel about the Ranger Archetype Update?
Overall I feel like you've done alot of intresting things with the ranger. It's seemingly a straight-forward class, with 3 different single target abilities, an array of CC's and AoE abilities and then the core mechanics of balancing hunts, marks and imbues. We saw alot of different things and abilities, and so I'll try to break down my thoughts on those:
An omnidirectional disengage is AWESOME. That really creates a much smoother experience for the player not having to spin around and do all kind of wierd jumping to make it work - Nice!
Airstrike... It's such a cool ability! An AoE root ability with omnidirectional jump-movement... you just gotta love it, but the visuals? Not so much . It still looks cool, but I miss the old flashy green animations we saw on earlier iterations, and it's a shame that the roots / impact-visuals are just black spots... But all in all an amazing ability! (which only makes me want better visuals even more )
Barrage (and auto-attacks)... Barrage (rapid-fire) is a stable ranger ability, and it really looks neat - it's just... it's visuals kinda blends in with the auto-attacks. They are SO fast that it's a bit hard to differentiate a Barrage from just a volley of auto-attacks, and tbh, the auto-attacks are too fast for a bow... it seems like you're playing Call of Duty or Counter Strike with those rapid fires.. would rather see a bit slower auto-attacks and then just tuning the numbers up from there
Bear trap: Great Succes. Good job!
Projectiles going around corners and follow the landscape? Yes. Please.!! That's suuper cool!
Visuals of Hunts / Marks: Seeing how big a part of the ranger gameplay hunts and marks are, they could use som more VFX. It would be awesome to have a visual representation of which mark is active on the target - and also which hunt is active on the player! Something like a spirit tiger or bear or raven lingering over the target or something along those lines... it kinda sucks to just have the de-buff icon as the only indicator - I mean... we're used to that as MMO gamers, but I just feel like it could be alot more than just that!
Thundering strike... I feel a little bad writing this, but wtf guys??? I mean, the ability in itself is SUPER cool! It's a great idea to play with the long-range aspect and turning it into an AoE ability, but why suddenly use lightning magic?? You have an archtype which solely focuses on being a bow-wielding trapper, who uses the power of the wild to cripple their targets, buff themselves and imbue their trusty weapons; everything else is either generic bow ability or based of an animal - and then you have 1-2 abilities that use lightning.. that just doesn't make sense to me sorry.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype?
The interaction between hunts, marks and imbues. They could really create a high skill-cap for rangers. Sure, you could play it without thinking and just use Snipe, Headshot, Barrage and Thunderingstrike on CD and not think about it, but I the idea of having to balance which marks to use with your current hunt and imbues in regards to your chosen ability - it's a great idea!
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?
... The interaction between hunts, marks and imbues . They really need to fine-tuned to eachother and balanced out, so you don't just end up having some which are unusable and others that are just instant-meta... A three-way buffing system is alot to balance out - buuut I have the utmost faith in you guys, so even though I could see some issues here, I have faith that it will balance itself out in due time!
Snow visuals
... This is not really a ranger thing, but I noticed that there wasn't any footprints in the snow I know you prob. know this yourself, as Steven has pointed out that in time there will be full interaction between the player and Verra - but still, I just noticed it and thought I would pop it in as a thing to look into
Im assuming that even with the homing projectiles there will still be true evasion from a defensive perspective, which im hoping for as counterplay against tab target skills.
The rapid fire arrows were really cool, i like how you are going for unique and varied skills. Some people think this is not immersive but im sure with some animation polishing it can help with this, plus gameplay>immersion imo.
There is a lot you can do with ranged abilities, such as tweaking all the aspects of projectiles like its accuracy, fire rate, whether it pushes the user or recipient back or not, startup speed, endlag, the quantity and velocity of projectiles, etc., so im looking forward to seeing what other ideas you come up with.
I'd like to first start by saying that I was very impressed by the recent Ranger Alpha 2 Update video. Seeing how much the game has evolved over the years has been nothing short of amazing and I love the passion that the whole team has for this ambitious project!
My feedback is basically in relation to the Hunter Marks. As much as I can tell a lot of effort has gone into creating the special effects for the marks, I feel that its a bit strange to have it work as a projectile that goes from the Ranger to its target. I feel that it would look better if it was just a shape of the Animal (ie. a Bear or Tiger) appear over the targeted player instead of seeing a projectile shoot from the ranger towards the target.
Maybe that's just my preference, but I just found that marks looked a bit strange as a projectile.
The primary thing for ranged classes is some form of skill based aim system. rewarding players for well timed and placed shots.
Also, having access to evasive maneuvers, a hit and move type, kiting all the way.
I was really hoping that we get to actually aim with bows and spells.
Mobs' reset distance seems low. In the video, that last shroom ran back to spawn twice.
Target lock (or however you call it) seems to be a tad bit too stronk. IMO if a target moves enough during arrow travel time, then the arrow should miss. Maybe target lock doesn't have to be the same for all skills, because in some cases it looks weird when an arrow bends a lot. Maybe it would look better if the arrows travelled a little faster?
I presume that this part is not final yet anyways, but skill animations could be less janky and more fluid. I hope you're planning to somehow blend(?) consecutive animations.
Other skills could have similar mechanics to scatter shot - e.g. the longer you channel rain of arrows, the more it condenses or widens the area.
All in all, it's starting to look real good. Can't wait to try it out!
-Im a fan of fast and flashy combat, but even for my taste the basic attack was too fast. What we were shown should be the absolute limit of an endgame build.
I´d increased the duration of the basic attack animation by 30% and have it fire 1 arrow less.
-I dont like the fact that the ranger has 9 different buffs, that all have minor mechanics.
-Id make the marks a trigger effect, the player has to fullfill.
E.g. mark of the cat , requires the player to hit 3 projectiles on the target. When triggered the effect resets the cooldown of the previous used ability.
- Im not a fan of hunts and the whole decision around making them a separate ability. I think it bloats the mapping of keybinds without anything exciting to engage with. So id have them combined again with hunts, or make them a key component of tab targeting oriented builds only.
- Id love to see short range low cooldown dash on the ranger. I suspect that the ranger´s roll will be a dash, as we kinda saw that in the crafting stream. Please have some reset or charge up mechanic for that ability
First I love the Ranger and will be playing it as a main most likely. My only criticisms are the rate of fire and sound effects. If the missiles are magical I get the accelerated rate of fire, if they are arrows it just does not feel right. On the sound there was one ability that sounded like a machine gun to me which again just does not feel right. Everything else was amazing, I love the ability to disengage and the animations are spot on. You can get my expanded reactions in this video. https://youtu.be/ADsbmNsZAjM
AlusiMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Really enjoyed seeing the improvements to the Ranger Class. What was shown was really good compared to the first Ranger Live Stream.
Will there be different effects from using Short Bows to Long Bows or just changes to such things as rate of fire, DPS or range?
Glad to see the Q3 2024 reveal for Alpha 2.
My one and only personal request for Alpha 2. Something I asked for many times during Alpha 1 testing. Please please please can we have the option to invert the y axis (Vertical Camera look) in the games settings. This is a standard available option in just about every game that has any type of camera view.
I will find it almost impossible to play test Alpha 2 for long periods if this is not available.
The way that hunts and marks were presented felt more like some ranger-themed buffs/debuffs skills than a class mechanic per se. To improve the ranger's class mechanic, I suggest 2 things:
1. A special class resource. This rewards the player for performing their class role well by filling the resource bar unlocking new abilities and increasing player power.
2. A big synergy with the other ranger skills (that 2-cast headshot on a marked target is a good start). This makes it so the class mechanic is not only another skill that you use but the foundation for your build.
Based on these improvements and the already existing hunt/mark design, let's suggest some ranger's class mechanics:
1. Based on the ranger class role (single-target DPS) I would suggest adding a resource (let's call it precision for now) that would fill when you do damage to a marked target (target with the "mark" skill on). Now you use precision to activate your hunt. Hunt burns precision while it's active. While the hunt is active, the ranger reaches an exalted state, getting all kinds of power-ups and new perks to the ranger's abilities.
This would be a simple change that would already make a huge difference, incentivizing the ranger to focus on one target fulfilling its class role, and if they do they get a big payoff. Let's go a little more crazy:
2. Everything from the first suggestion. If you Kill a marked target while the hunt is active, your precision bar is filled back up and the hunt's duration is extended. If you don't kill the marked target before the hunt is over, you enter a lethargic state, unable to use marks/hunts and refill your precision bar for some amount of time.
I don't know how fun or balanced this second idea would be but would increase the skill ceiling of rangers and make people think before activating a hunt. Now going insane:
3. Everything from the two other suggestions, but when you kill the marked target while the hunt is active, you would also gain a stack that would increase the hunt buffs. this stack would reset once you fail to kill the marked target and enter the lethargic state
Might be too OP but would further increase the skill ceiling and give some good ranger players the ability to become serial murder machines. The counterplay to this ranger mechanic would be for the enemy group to maintain the marked target alive at any cost, effectively diminishing the ranger's power.
The way that hunts and marks were presented felt more like some ranger-themed buffs/debuffs skills than a class mechanic per se. To improve the ranger's class mechanic, I suggest 2 things:
1. A special class resource. This rewards the player for performing their class role well by filling the resource bar unlocking new abilities and increasing player power.
2. A big synergy with the other ranger skills (that 2-cast headshot on a marked target is a good start). This makes it so the class mechanic is not only another skill that you use but the foundation for your build.
Based on these improvements and the already existing hunt/mark design, let's suggest some ranger's class mechanics:
1. Based on the ranger class role (single-target DPS) I would suggest adding a resource (let's call it precision for now) that would fill when you do damage to a marked target (target with the "mark" skill on). Now you use precision to activate your hunt. Hunt burns precision while it's active. While the hunt is active, the ranger reaches an exalted state, getting all kinds of power-ups and new perks to the ranger's abilities.
This would be a simple change that would already make a huge difference, incentivizing the ranger to focus on one target fulfilling its class role, and if they do they get a big payoff. Let's go a little more crazy:
2. Everything from the first suggestion. If you Kill a marked target while the hunt is active, your precision bar is filled back up and the hunt's duration is extended. If you don't kill the marked target before the hunt is over, you enter a lethargic state, unable to use marks/hunts and refill your precision bar for some amount of time.
I don't know how fun or balanced this second idea would be but would increase the skill ceiling of rangers and make people think before activating a hunt. Now going insane:
3. Everything from the two other suggestions, but when you kill the marked target while the hunt is active, you would also gain a stack that would increase the hunt buffs. this stack would reset once you fail to kill the marked target and enter the lethargic state
Might be too OP but would further increase the skill ceiling and give some good ranger players the ability to become serial murder machines. The counterplay to this ranger mechanic would be for the enemy group to maintain the marked target alive at any cost, effectively diminishing the ranger's power.
I do like the idea to tie down hunts and marks to a class resource!
However, having those special effects - especially the punishment when you fail to execute the target - will do one of two thins:
1) Make rangers into burst machines that can burst down enemy targets (players) very quickly. This will make rangers a very tedious open world roamer to face - and make a coordinated group of rangers a nightmare in PvP.
- or -
2) If Intrepid manage to stay true to their design and PvP combat are more of a longer fighting sequence than a bursting contest; then ranger's entire identity gets limited to the last execution phase which feels.... not so great considering they already have an execution shot for that purpose. I mean - the marks (which is the active part of the rangers hunt/mark system) would then be *ONE* out of 3+ buttons (as they want to add more of them) that you ideally would use just *once* per target. Imo, that would just make rangers gameplay much more passive; assuming that Intrepid wants combat encounters to be long and difficult.
Honestly, I would much rather prefer to see Intrepid do something that allows the ranger to share part of these buff/debuff benefits to their party members so that rangers offer more to the group than just damage (or at least give us that option via the secondary archetype choice) for those of us that want to play rangers in group content.
Well first of all would liek to say that the Graphical Unit Interface for the abiliteis looks prett good to me. Really clean and simple. Hope we have the chance to keep it when Game goes live. Think hp bars and mana bars meed help
I want to chime in on the abilities.
Camouflage This is a huge win cuase it allows rangers to be sneaky whch adds to the identity of the class and role playing value. Even if other games have that same ability pets ought to go into stealth too.
Disengage This abiltiy is also a huge win because hunters should be mobile and it is a counter to classes with charges. Think animation needs help. When hunter lands it should be kind of springy. In WoW there are two animations for this the regular on were hunter jumps back. And another one were hunter jumps goes into a ball and starts spinning really fast well done but that only happened some if the time. If hunter spinned every time then it would not feel special cause it would get repative since it would happen all the time
Bear Trap Now this ability is also a huge win cause it also adds to the identity of the ranger and personally I like traps. Think there should be different versions Event if it is just have a choice of one on three different traps. It is not clear to me if it is an Area of Effect or single target. If one or more targets could be affected by this then it would be huge win. But that may prove to be too powerful especaily in PvP. But could have additional effects like a slow or dmg.
I played hunter in WoW and in that game the traps are smaller and are more of a skill shot. I could go two or three days without missing a trap. Traps in WoW ,last time a played, are small too. But I played a ridiculous amount of time dong pvp. So it does take a long long time to develope that skill. When I started trapping I would miss mobs in dungeouns that were standing still.
Obviously the smaller the trap the more of a skill shot it is and the opposite is also the true the larger the trap the less of a skill shot it is . In fact if it is to big then not much of a skill shot. So the question is how often are rangers missing their traps. Let say it is fairly easy and rangers land over 90 percent of the traps they shoot in PvP vs 50%
If a ranger on average misses 50% of the trap that he lands then gameplay might something like this. Ranger shoots trap waits to see if it lands then that determines if they are going to use another skill after it that is a skill shot that is normally hard to land cause target is stunned by 2 seconds (such ability should exist in game) So he is not know if you are going to get a two ability combo.
Now if the ranger lands the traps over 90 percent of the time think will high cause trap so big then the ranger could decide to just hit one button after another with out even thinking about now after many games it can become reflex. In my case think trap accuracy would be close to 99 or 100 percent. So basically hit two buttons really fast but it is kind of reflexive so kind of one ability. But lets say the trap size stays the same then one thing cand be done is have a raid like effect many abilities in League of Legends have this. Basically enemy has chance to dodge trap because there is a particle effect on the ground telling them were it is going to land. This creates more gameplay cause enemy player has a huge incentive to avoid the additional damage of a trap plus ability combo. If there is a combo in the game that is essential inescaple the combo really becomes one ability. For example there is a 1 2 3 combo that is key binded to 1 2 3 buttons then it is bascally automatic, Another way to look at is you have you L, K, J buttons on your keyboard, which are you ring figner middle finger and fore finger on your hand so all you have to is type LKJ really fast really easy.
I have a 12 button mouse Razer and after many many many hours of play combos in some games becom automatic (reflexive kind of like typing the word THE). Thing is buttons do have to in order hitting button 1, 5 and 7 on a 12 button mouse( 3 by 4 grid) on my Razer mouse can become automatic. Ever see accountants type input data in on ten key adding machine. It us just automatic. Do not even have to think about and 100 percent accuracy. This repetative game play in MMOs
Now I play Malphite in Legends and his Ultimate Ability has a similar area of effect as the Bear Trap does. It is simple ability but has pretty good gameplay. The ability is a charge of ability that is a knock up ability (stun) that can hit one or more palyer all five them if they are all bunched up. The ability can be dodged by good players do you have to wait to see if you hit them and follow it op with other abilities but it is not gauranteed. But sometimes it gets two or three players but rarely four or five player but when you do it feels very impacful. Another neat thing about this ability is that it does substantial dmg so low health players will be killed. And sometimes can kill two players at ounce. Even if you do not kill them you can follow it with other abilities and so can your team and the effect can be devasting. Similar game might be possible for the bear trap since it is so big.
Personally Big Bear Traps means I will win more; it is a personal win but if the class itself can suffer from repetive game play if trap accuracy is close to 100 percent. But it could be that rangers already have enough skills shots as it its and need a gauranteed combo that is just fun. I do not know for sure.
WoW at one point had huge area of effect as far as targeting goes for single target traps I personally did not like and ended up reverting the change.
Bear Traps are an over all win for rangers That is it for now will post more later.
I like the ranger skills/ animations so far, I only wish for an option to reduce the particle effects. I don't want to feel like I "cast" arrows all the time.
I'm very intrigued by the Ranger. I really like how the icons look for each ability, they seem easy to understand. The overall effects (like using the different marks) looks really cool! I've really enjoyed the animations so far.
I'll be honest and say I don't play a lot of Ranger in games, so in theory, to me, the Omnidirectional Disengage seems like a good choice. I can't wait to try some of these out to get a better feel for the class.
That was the best class showcase you've shown by far, good job!
My only concern is that ALL of the attacks (except Scatter Shot*) were Tab-Target; not counting AoE attacks because they still don't require aiming, the skill ceiling is very tiny.
As someone who PVPs a lot in BDO on a sweaty high APM Rogue-like class, I would probably run away from PVP in Ashes of Creation. It feels good to improve at a game or be among the best at your class by PVPing for thousands of hours and still have room for improvement. So please, improve the complexity of the combat.
Just because it's not an action-combat game, doesn't mean there won't be any complexity, and a lot of skill and learning involved in actually being good at playing your class.
I just don't understand where this idea comes from. Just because you don't have to aim all of your abilities, doesn't make the skill ceiling "very tiny". There's still positioning, timing, learning what your class can or cannot do, using the right ability at the right time, combos, movement, building your class correctly (in terms of the skills and the gear), and probably some other things I forgot to mention.
It's far from having "a tiny skill ceiling".
Hm, I'll make it simple for you to understand.
Can you do a crazy 1v8 play like that a in tab target combat with similar gear as everyone else?
No, not even close; you press tab then 123 cc boom boom and it's over. Can't dodge anything. This is what I mean by skill ceiling.
This fight lasted 27 seconds (sped up x2), it isn't just a drop of a meteor on a crowd. With all due respect, I think whoever advocates for tab-target is out of touch of what a good combat is like.
Comments
I feel conflicted because I like the general gameplay of the Archetype but not the way the team presents them to us.
[*] What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype? [*]
The agility and mobility in combat are the features that I like most about it.
If you play as a Ranger against melee players you know you have to stay away from your target or skill into abilities to overcome that weakness and surprise your foes with a multitude of CC and other control skills if they come close before you chip away their HP with Dots, procs and marked snipe combos.
Against ranged players you'd have to surprise them at best and strategize what skills are best to disable theirs and how to end the fight quickly.
If you play against a Ranger you know you have to close the gap or the Ranger will slowly but surely diminish your health to zero without you having a chance of damaging it. Most frustrating as a melee, but not of concern for other ranged archetypes who just also burn them down at a distance.
Setting up traps and root conditions on your targets is nice too, as long as it is a viable option and not one of these, 1 second afflicted or instant removed when shot mechanics... I'd like to have useful skills in my repertoire and not only class fantasy flavors...
[*] Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?[ *]
So yes there are "some" things, what about crossbows and the whole pallet of other ranged weapons fitting into high fantasy?!
Only bow seems meh when other classes have more options in their field of expertise...
I know that you only want to provide skins for these but I'm sure there are options to implement other physical ranged weapons with full functional systems into the game for Ranger as it was viable to give the melee archetypes more than one weapon of choice... please reconsider. At least for after launch!
The shots (and in general melee strikes too) are way too fast.
Steven said we need to wait for the archetypes to be fully developed until the polishing stage where things like animation, and attack speed, will be worked on further, but I think attack speed, and especially melee combat has to feel right before I can say it's a good design to polish to perfection.
This showed me, that on that front you need to scale down the speed a bit or it's just a mush of skills flying through the scene without meaningful choices and impactful decisions.
It's the right direction on design but not quite there for me to enjoy without concerns.
It's not pure realism I know that but this goes more into the realm of hack and slay without the strategy needed to create a feeling of accomplishment when defeating an enemy with skill and not who can strike first and mash buttons faster...
Why do we need so many different marks for doing damage?
Why is there a red glowing shot in a green-designed class kit identity?????!!!!!
(Big misstep for the integrity of your design guidelines, as the next questions are about the same problem.)
Why are there electric shots without augments from the mage? (tho maybe changed when implemented)
Why does Steven want to summon a hound for the tracing utility skill without a summoner subclass, I would give that exact utility design to the summoner himself rather...
Don't overlap with the design of the other Archetypes and maybe future archetypes you consider adding, like a druid, monk, barbarian, artificer, whatever fits into the world.
Craft a clear identity for the archetypes that's one of the most important tasks you have to get right before fine-tuning the subclasses and other combat-related systems!!!
I'd also like to see a broader range of uses not only how the skills look and feel against a "player dummy"
How does it feel to play against NPCs?
Do the skills provide a round set of core functions in a PvX setting, against single mobs, elites, swarm enemies, bosses, and players who actually fight back?
( I mean you kinda showed that last point in a funny way almost dying...
My core issue with your balance approach is, that you seemably not care about 1vs1.
I don't know how it actually will play out BUT I care very much about fair PVP.
There is nothing to say about what is fair and what is not because it's very subjective to the individual and the type of situation where we get confronted by that, but if I get the feeling that I do everything I can in the battle against another player and I always loose against that type of archetype I will be extremely frustrated...
Trust me there will be many situations, where I have to focus only on one particular player, not every part of the game will or should be group combat-related.
There must be strategies for EVERY archetype to use the skills to your advantage and if I have to jump from tree to tree or have to skill into every CC possible or by pressing the keys of my keyboard behind my back while doing a 360 on a skateboard naked...
Players need viable options or the class is broken.
Not for everyone but for the majority who care for it and you don't want that to happen because I don't want that to happen either...
However... we will have to wait for A2 for more details about the gameplay for more precise feedback about the archetypes.
[*] Are there similar archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain! [*]
I like the Ranger/Bard from FFXIV because it is a round class with dots to maintain and procs, and resources to build up and spend throughout the fight. It's also reactive to play. It's a mix of buffing and weaving in OGCDs between the main skills which I like the most because it creates a fun dynamic playstyle without gaps where you have to wait significantly for cooldowns or spam insignificant filler skills. Using your skillset with strategy, reactive procs, and interweavable options is the perfect combat style for me which can be transferred in design to all other archetypes in general with their own kind of twist and flavor.
I assume there will be no global cooldown for main skills, so it's less frustrating than in most conventional tab-target games.
But when I think about New World's approach to a bow using "class" where you only had 3 useless skills to use...
The most fun was trying to hit headshots and skill shots from afar on moving targets I'd like that in Ashes too, but in the heat of the battle it is good to know I can switch back to tab target and I don't have to aim everything 100% accurate.
I would rather spend my time practicing my skill in using the right abilities than being frustrated all the time for not hitting perfect shots with every combat action... There needs to be a balance as always.
But I think beneficial headshots are not viable in a game like this.
Overall a successful showcase but stay closer to your design philosophy for future updates I know you can do it. You have proven to me on multiple occasions that your ambitions are no hollow buzzword fantasies.
No just no, the green color spectrum is on purpose to identify the spells as ranger related.
But I agree on changing something to diversify the visuals more but that's kinda a polish issue for the animation team.
And as someone who doesn't generally play ranged, I have to say I'd be tempted to play Ranger.
The key draws are the opportunistic sudden threat they bring, combined with mobility that pushes some traditional boundaries.
Like most other commenters it's hard to say much more without getting really dirty (ie: racking up playing hours and detailed experience of combat mechanics). Things like:
You've definitely got my attention. I'm certainly going to play.
Bottom line is how the combat mechanics actually feel, in groups of various sizes and compositions in the open world. Skill should count.
Looking forward to Alpha 2 and major success!!
Cheers!
LFG: Open World, tight knit coordination, multiple roles, will travel.
The Multishot ability was my favorite from the showcase. It had unique gameplay, both versions of it seemed useful, and it looked cool to boot. Nothing too crazy, but it's a solid core ability that feels good and requires a bit more effort than just pressing a button to get full value out of it. Definitely worth the skill point
The leaping strike (I forget the name) was also much improved since the last time we saw it. I'm glad to hear that the designers are keeping a close eye on how these abilities feel to use and move around with.
Lightning Reload also seems like a great way to double-down on a specific tactic, depending on what the situation demands. And the versatility of being able to use it for an on-cooldown or off-cooldown ability really helps. Overall, I think it allows for a lot of tactical options in how you optimize it.
Criticism:
The basic attacks are way too rapid for my taste. I couldn't even tell how many hits were going out at that speed. Not only does it detract from the immersion (which I don't really care about), but it doesn't leave room for legitimate rapid-fire abilities/buffs. Barrage should be unique in it's power to put out multiple hits quickly (useful for applying the ammo bonuses, or for other per-hit effects). And I assume there will be Attack Speed bonuses available at some point (buffs or gear stats), which won't feel as impactful if basic attacks are already machine-gun pace.
I'm not too happy with all the buff abilities either. Ignoring the balance concerns, I just don't think it's feels right for a base Ranger (not a Bard secondary) to have that many buttons dedicated to buffs/debuffs. Especially if they're all simultaneous/instant cast, because that makes them ripe for macroing (the damage-oriented ones, at least). Why not just put those effects together in the first place. Or at least make them significantly different so they get used in different niches. The Hunts for example, could do more to define your overall playstyle. Like a damage bonus at long range or a constant movement buff for kiting. At least the Ammo buffs all seemed unique thanks to the different CC effects, so that's fine.
Also, I'm not sure what was going on with the rain of arrows VFX. I wasn't sure who was actually getting hit or how many times. But it sounded like y'all are already aware of its problems, so I won't belabor the point.
Quandry:
It was mentioned on stream that some abilities will require certain weapons to functions (like bows for Snipe, etc.). Which leaves me wondering how alternative weapons will actually work. I'm guessing that some abilities can be augmented to work with other weapons, but probably not all of them? If that's the case, then a Ranger (for example) would still have to carry a bow at all times so they could use their primary Ranger abilities. And if they wanted to mix in a few melee abilities, they would have to swap to a melee weapon. Maybe with a dedicated weapon swap button like GW2?
This is all wild speculation, because we don't know how many of these systems will work yet. So I'm asking for some more info on this in a future stream.
As someone who has always been pvp focused in their mmos my immediate thoughts on the kit. Yes I know there will not be a balance sweep for a long time but...
Minimum distance required for range bows- Why was this removed ? For one it negates any reason for a ranger to choose anything other than both bows for their kit. Secondly, a mobile range high dps class with cc should have some balanced handicap other than lower health especially with how low skill / how easy tab target range combat is.
Omnidirectional Disengage- Why would the Dev team not keep this as a skill a player had to choose and/or sacrifice other skill points to take on the tree ? Correct me if I am wrong but I thought I heard on the stream it was being removed from the tree to be imbedded into the original disengage skill. Important choices that come at a sacrifice in other areas of a class kit skill tree lead to better character building in my opinion.
Both these changes feel like they came from ranger player base point of view not concerned with balance but more focused on how to make the class kit superior in play over other class kits.
Overall I am mostly concerned with giving a range class multiple mobility abilities including speed movement increase buffs, multiple range CC including AE CC, a 50% increase crit chance via range on target seems very extreme....on top of their burst DPS, possible stealth mechanic we have heard of with the ranger kit, possible player tracking ?
Kiting range classes have always been one of the more challenging mmo aspects to get right. Kit looks good on paper and on the stream but perhaps too good.
Looking forward to testing it myself as well as seeing what possible anti-ranger class builds exist come alpha 2.
The only thing I would love for a game to add to a bow using class is accuracy training. I'm a bow hunter in the real world and the only thing that make me deadly is practice. if I don't shoot for a few weeks, I don't shoot as well. On the other hand, if I spend some time sharpening my skills, I'm deadly. if there was a range that rangers had to go and practice for a bit to give a little buff to penetration of damage, I think that would feel like the real deal. Just a small little buff kind of like a food buff, or even a clicky in the inventory called Targets?
Diffrent ammo types having diffrent colored arrows not just good for the ranger to pay attention to but in pvp players can be aware of what ammo type was just used.- The backflip disengage and the snipe abilities are exactly how players would expect them. A succesful snipe getting a buff for attack speed feels rewarding and Im happy to see you trying to make passive more interesting then just +1 to atack or +5 sec cooldown blah.
- Weapons having their own trees to reward either more passive buffs or adding abilities as a choice feels like a good way to add a little more complexity to builds without complicating it too much.
- Diffrent marks doing diffrent things like armor penetration or increased crit feels good against enemies with more health or armor situations so offer felxibility for a class that may have little health or average armor.
- I like that scatter shot can be a cone or a snipe skill based on holding the button so good for group or single target.
- Being able to control your character with airstrike instead of being stuck in place is a big plus as I don't like losing control of my character do to a bad button press and falling off a cliff lol.
- Thundering shot is nice for rewarding playing at a distance and rewarding players who manage to gap close said ranger.
- I like that lightning reload is basically a oh crap button and lets you use a cooldown skill on emergency.
- Having a CC break for a paper class like Call of the Wild is a very important skill and could mean the life or death of a player in pvp/pve scenario.
- I liked when steven dragged and dropped a skill it just moved places with the skill it replaced instead of disappearing.
Things I dont like about the showcase/skills:
I'll split this post in two parts while trying not to be too long and boring.
Regarding the Ranger Archtype I think the overall approach is very well designed. The animations and spell effecfs look polished and the base kit matches what we expect from a ranger in MMORPGs. Furthermore, I think the shown kit have a lot of potential for learning the base concept for the Archtype, while still offering an acceptable learning curve on the Ranger's skill ceiling. The mechanic around Marks and Hunts fit perfectly in the archtype's fantasy.
Regarding the overall direction for all Archtypes, I would consider super interesting if all archtypes are more focused about tab targeting abilities (about 90-95% of the toolkit) and still having some impactfull skillshots, which would diferentiate low to average skilled players from high skilled players for that same Archtype (which would be the other 5-10% of the toolkit). If this is the case, even more casual players would feel compelled to play a certain archtype, as they would excel in 90-95% of their Archtype while still have those 5-10% as a progression goal on perfecting their chosen Archtype. For those who can't reach this 5-10%, they would still be viable of playing those 90-95% of their Archtype potential, which would not demotivated them to play the Archtype they like.
Also (and this is a bit off-topic), I would be pleased to see if some Archtype have some sort of utility skill. Something that make other think "oh, if we bring X Archtype on our group we would be able to do Y, which would not be possible without him, otherwise". As an example, the Rogue Archtype would be able to spot treasures and track hidden passages inside dungeons. This type of abilities add another layer of Archtype's fantasy, and the feel of being needed and useful.
Some ideas on utility skills for some Archtypes (i''m not that good with naming abilities, so don't blame me)
Ranger (problably more suitable for the Scout Specilization)
Hints Pursuit - this skill would allow the Ranger to spot subtle hints on the environment which, if he follows them, would lead to discover an otherwise not findable mob inside the dungeon. There could be dungeons where this mob would be trackable by the hunter in every dungeon reset (some named mob with an appealing loot) and other dungeons where the mobs will not always the there. Also, the loot on this mobs, this could also support an hidden sub-system on Archtypes, being the Utility Progression, meaning this mobs could drop items that would increase the Ranger efficiency on Hints Pursuit, having higher level dungeons to require a higher efficiency on Hints Pursuit to allow the Ranger to discover the hidden mob on that specific dungeon. Let's call this mobs the "Utility Bosses" as they would serve the purpose of levling this Utility skills.
Archwizzard
Colossus Meltdown - The Archwizzard would be able to meltdown frozen doors/passages that would lead to Utility Mobs.
Warlock
Death Realm - The Warlock would be able to enter the Death Realm. Inside the Death Realm he would be able to see spirit ghosts from the past (which are not visible in the "Normal Realm") and interact with them. Some of this mobs would be Lore-focused but other could conjure a portal (both to Death and Normal Realms) to allow all members in the group to go thought it and access a room with an Utility Boss or an otherwise unaccessable treasure chest.
Anyways, Intrepid, thank you for all the hard work you've been putting into the game. The progress it's on point and on the right direction. Happy New Year, everyone|
The Ranger... the classic bowman-long-range-snipe-guy.
How do you feel about the Ranger Archetype Update?
Overall I feel like you've done alot of intresting things with the ranger. It's seemingly a straight-forward class, with 3 different single target abilities, an array of CC's and AoE abilities and then the core mechanics of balancing hunts, marks and imbues. We saw alot of different things and abilities, and so I'll try to break down my thoughts on those:
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype?
The interaction between hunts, marks and imbues. They could really create a high skill-cap for rangers. Sure, you could play it without thinking and just use Snipe, Headshot, Barrage and Thunderingstrike on CD and not think about it, but I the idea of having to balance which marks to use with your current hunt and imbues in regards to your chosen ability - it's a great idea!
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?
... The interaction between hunts, marks and imbues
Snow visuals
... This is not really a ranger thing, but I noticed that there wasn't any footprints in the snow
The rapid fire arrows were really cool, i like how you are going for unique and varied skills. Some people think this is not immersive but im sure with some animation polishing it can help with this, plus gameplay>immersion imo.
There is a lot you can do with ranged abilities, such as tweaking all the aspects of projectiles like its accuracy, fire rate, whether it pushes the user or recipient back or not, startup speed, endlag, the quantity and velocity of projectiles, etc., so im looking forward to seeing what other ideas you come up with.
I'd like to first start by saying that I was very impressed by the recent Ranger Alpha 2 Update video. Seeing how much the game has evolved over the years has been nothing short of amazing and I love the passion that the whole team has for this ambitious project!
My feedback is basically in relation to the Hunter Marks. As much as I can tell a lot of effort has gone into creating the special effects for the marks, I feel that its a bit strange to have it work as a projectile that goes from the Ranger to its target. I feel that it would look better if it was just a shape of the Animal (ie. a Bear or Tiger) appear over the targeted player instead of seeing a projectile shoot from the ranger towards the target.
Maybe that's just my preference, but I just found that marks looked a bit strange as a projectile.
Thanks!
Darsh.
Also, having access to evasive maneuvers, a hit and move type, kiting all the way.
All in all, it's starting to look real good. Can't wait to try it out!
Here a few things that werent so great.
-Im a fan of fast and flashy combat, but even for my taste the basic attack was too fast. What we were shown should be the absolute limit of an endgame build.
I´d increased the duration of the basic attack animation by 30% and have it fire 1 arrow less.
-I dont like the fact that the ranger has 9 different buffs, that all have minor mechanics.
-Id make the marks a trigger effect, the player has to fullfill.
E.g. mark of the cat , requires the player to hit 3 projectiles on the target. When triggered the effect resets the cooldown of the previous used ability.
- Im not a fan of hunts and the whole decision around making them a separate ability. I think it bloats the mapping of keybinds without anything exciting to engage with. So id have them combined again with hunts, or make them a key component of tab targeting oriented builds only.
- Id love to see short range low cooldown dash on the ranger. I suspect that the ranger´s roll will be a dash, as we kinda saw that in the crafting stream. Please have some reset or charge up mechanic for that ability
-The snow makes the area look far worse
Ashes of Creation is the reason I stream!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXOs3OsZMQWPi0TeNJ82ofA
Will there be different effects from using Short Bows to Long Bows or just changes to such things as rate of fire, DPS or range?
Glad to see the Q3 2024 reveal for Alpha 2.
My one and only personal request for Alpha 2. Something I asked for many times during Alpha 1 testing. Please please please can we have the option to invert the y axis (Vertical Camera look) in the games settings. This is a standard available option in just about every game that has any type of camera view.
I will find it almost impossible to play test Alpha 2 for long periods if this is not available.
Thanks!
1. A special class resource. This rewards the player for performing their class role well by filling the resource bar unlocking new abilities and increasing player power.
2. A big synergy with the other ranger skills (that 2-cast headshot on a marked target is a good start). This makes it so the class mechanic is not only another skill that you use but the foundation for your build.
Based on these improvements and the already existing hunt/mark design, let's suggest some ranger's class mechanics:
1. Based on the ranger class role (single-target DPS) I would suggest adding a resource (let's call it precision for now) that would fill when you do damage to a marked target (target with the "mark" skill on). Now you use precision to activate your hunt. Hunt burns precision while it's active. While the hunt is active, the ranger reaches an exalted state, getting all kinds of power-ups and new perks to the ranger's abilities.
This would be a simple change that would already make a huge difference, incentivizing the ranger to focus on one target fulfilling its class role, and if they do they get a big payoff. Let's go a little more crazy:
2. Everything from the first suggestion. If you Kill a marked target while the hunt is active, your precision bar is filled back up and the hunt's duration is extended. If you don't kill the marked target before the hunt is over, you enter a lethargic state, unable to use marks/hunts and refill your precision bar for some amount of time.
I don't know how fun or balanced this second idea would be but would increase the skill ceiling of rangers and make people think before activating a hunt. Now going insane:
3. Everything from the two other suggestions, but when you kill the marked target while the hunt is active, you would also gain a stack that would increase the hunt buffs. this stack would reset once you fail to kill the marked target and enter the lethargic state
Might be too OP but would further increase the skill ceiling and give some good ranger players the ability to become serial murder machines. The counterplay to this ranger mechanic would be for the enemy group to maintain the marked target alive at any cost, effectively diminishing the ranger's power.
I do like the idea to tie down hunts and marks to a class resource!
However, having those special effects - especially the punishment when you fail to execute the target - will do one of two thins:
1) Make rangers into burst machines that can burst down enemy targets (players) very quickly. This will make rangers a very tedious open world roamer to face - and make a coordinated group of rangers a nightmare in PvP.
- or -
2) If Intrepid manage to stay true to their design and PvP combat are more of a longer fighting sequence than a bursting contest; then ranger's entire identity gets limited to the last execution phase which feels.... not so great considering they already have an execution shot for that purpose. I mean - the marks (which is the active part of the rangers hunt/mark system) would then be *ONE* out of 3+ buttons (as they want to add more of them) that you ideally would use just *once* per target. Imo, that would just make rangers gameplay much more passive; assuming that Intrepid wants combat encounters to be long and difficult.
Honestly, I would much rather prefer to see Intrepid do something that allows the ranger to share part of these buff/debuff benefits to their party members so that rangers offer more to the group than just damage (or at least give us that option via the secondary archetype choice) for those of us that want to play rangers in group content.
I want to chime in on the abilities.
Camouflage This is a huge win cuase it allows rangers to be sneaky whch adds to the identity of the class and role playing value. Even if other games have that same ability pets ought to go into stealth too.
Disengage This abiltiy is also a huge win because hunters should be mobile and it is a counter to classes with charges. Think animation needs help. When hunter lands it should be kind of springy. In WoW there are two animations for this the regular on were hunter jumps back. And another one were hunter jumps goes into a ball and starts spinning really fast well done but that only happened some if the time. If hunter spinned every time then it would not feel special cause it would get repative since it would happen all the time
Bear Trap Now this ability is also a huge win cause it also adds to the identity of the ranger and personally I like traps. Think there should be different versions Event if it is just have a choice of one on three different traps. It is not clear to me if it is an Area of Effect or single target. If one or more targets could be affected by this then it would be huge win. But that may prove to be too powerful especaily in PvP. But could have additional effects like a slow or dmg.
I played hunter in WoW and in that game the traps are smaller and are more of a skill shot. I could go two or three days without missing a trap. Traps in WoW ,last time a played, are small too. But I played a ridiculous amount of time dong pvp. So it does take a long long time to develope that skill. When I started trapping I would miss mobs in dungeouns that were standing still.
Obviously the smaller the trap the more of a skill shot it is and the opposite is also the true the larger the trap the less of a skill shot it is . In fact if it is to big then not much of a skill shot. So the question is how often are rangers missing their traps. Let say it is fairly easy and rangers land over 90 percent of the traps they shoot in PvP vs 50%
If a ranger on average misses 50% of the trap that he lands then gameplay might something like this. Ranger shoots trap waits to see if it lands then that determines if they are going to use another skill after it that is a skill shot that is normally hard to land cause target is stunned by 2 seconds (such ability should exist in game) So he is not know if you are going to get a two ability combo.
Now if the ranger lands the traps over 90 percent of the time think will high cause trap so big then the ranger could decide to just hit one button after another with out even thinking about now after many games it can become reflex. In my case think trap accuracy would be close to 99 or 100 percent. So basically hit two buttons really fast but it is kind of reflexive so kind of one ability. But lets say the trap size stays the same then one thing cand be done is have a raid like effect many abilities in League of Legends have this. Basically enemy has chance to dodge trap because there is a particle effect on the ground telling them were it is going to land. This creates more gameplay cause enemy player has a huge incentive to avoid the additional damage of a trap plus ability combo. If there is a combo in the game that is essential inescaple the combo really becomes one ability. For example there is a 1 2 3 combo that is key binded to 1 2 3 buttons then it is bascally automatic, Another way to look at is you have you L, K, J buttons on your keyboard, which are you ring figner middle finger and fore finger on your hand so all you have to is type LKJ really fast really easy.
I have a 12 button mouse Razer and after many many many hours of play combos in some games becom automatic (reflexive kind of like typing the word THE). Thing is buttons do have to in order hitting button 1, 5 and 7 on a 12 button mouse( 3 by 4 grid) on my Razer mouse can become automatic. Ever see accountants type input data in on ten key adding machine. It us just automatic. Do not even have to think about and 100 percent accuracy. This repetative game play in MMOs
Now I play Malphite in Legends and his Ultimate Ability has a similar area of effect as the Bear Trap does. It is simple ability but has pretty good gameplay. The ability is a charge of ability that is a knock up ability (stun) that can hit one or more palyer all five them if they are all bunched up. The ability can be dodged by good players do you have to wait to see if you hit them and follow it op with other abilities but it is not gauranteed. But sometimes it gets two or three players but rarely four or five player but when you do it feels very impacful. Another neat thing about this ability is that it does substantial dmg so low health players will be killed. And sometimes can kill two players at ounce. Even if you do not kill them you can follow it with other abilities and so can your team and the effect can be devasting. Similar game might be possible for the bear trap since it is so big.
Personally Big Bear Traps means I will win more; it is a personal win but if the class itself can suffer from repetive game play if trap accuracy is close to 100 percent. But it could be that rangers already have enough skills shots as it its and need a gauranteed combo that is just fun. I do not know for sure.
WoW at one point had huge area of effect as far as targeting goes for single target traps I personally did not like and ended up reverting the change.
Bear Traps are an over all win for rangers That is it for now will post more later.
I'll be honest and say I don't play a lot of Ranger in games, so in theory, to me, the Omnidirectional Disengage seems like a good choice. I can't wait to try some of these out to get a better feel for the class.
True and Real