How do you feel about the Ranger Archetype Update?
Awesome! It seemed fast and fluid and it really felt like the class had all the basic tools it needs to fulfill it's role. The sounds and animations were great and added to the class. I love the ability to tailor and combine the abilities as I use them. It will have a high skill ceiling which is great!
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype?
It really felt like the Ranger has less of an ability rotation and more like a large set of tools that they can use at their discretion. Archer classes in WoW and FFXIV were far too rigid, it was always a very specific rotation of very rigid abilities that you would be using the same way over and over again. As much as I enjoyed playing the Hunter and Bard, they both got boring as hell after a while and I always wound up needing to take breaks from them. It looks like you are trying to avoid that level of rigidity in combat, so thank you!
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?
A concern, or maybe just a question, about the demo was with Snipe. The only way it was used that I saw was with a long windup. That's not really an exciting way to enter combat. I'm just hoping that a very long lead-in to combat is not the only way we can kick things off effectively. I can't speak for everyone, but a lot of bow players want long windup abilities to be a situational exception, not the norm. Regular casting and channeling is more of a magic user thing. Scatter Shot however, was great. It had a casting element that changed the function of the ability. That's not boring casting, that's just added versatility.
Are there similar archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
Loved Hunter in WoW, Liked Bard in FFXIV, All bow classes in EQ2 felt far too clunky and hard to use. The others are really nameless and faceless to be honest. Most of the time its just you pushing buttons while wearing skimpy armor and holding a bow. More of a wardrobe/waifu choice than anything else, really bad.
What I really want to see, and you managed to show it, is a large set of tools that I can mix and match as I see fit. Making a Ranger feel "casty and channely" is a mistake. It needs to be fast and fluid above all. Its abilities need to be used in multiple ways. Versatility and utility fulfills that fantasy of a nature based woodsman and huntsman that people are anticipating when they choose this archetype.
As an example you changed Airstrike to allow free directional movement instead of a fixed landing point which is exactly what was needed, so thank you. The number of uses for that skill multiply just with that single change. For example Steven even showed one, he used the ability to jump up to the top of a ledge, then he used it to span the gap between two ledges. Two similar but different uses for the same ability that were opened up with one simple change to Airstrike's behavior. I would actually love to see all the Ranger abilities have this level of versatility and as you are developing the class look to add small subtle nuances that players can explore.
Building the class this way feels, when you are playing, less like you are learning a class, and more like you are discovering and unlocking one. We will see a lot of crazy and exciting things players do with these classes.
Amazing job so far, I can't wait to play a Ranger!
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TeylouneMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited December 2023
The Ranger looks like it's on the right path; this is the kind of love and passion that I was hoping to see. The animations, for the most part, flow very well.
The Ranger having all these jumps is neat, and they look great. It seems very fun to play with or against.
I'm a bit concerned that groups of Rangers could become rather oppressive, but I'm curious to see what tools other archetypes will get to deal with this.
The archetype and weapon skill tree were very interesting, giving players the omnidirectional jump as an option is awesome, and it shows again how much you care about providing players with a good experience.
The Rapid-Fire Bow is insane! I love it!
Also, Bear Trap? That's a thing is huge! What kind of bears are you trying to catch with that?
minor detail, was having a discussion with my community because some people were under the impression that the previous version of air strike looked better, after comparing I finally figured out why.. looking at the original ranger basic attack showcase, Air Strike had a really nice camera shake/blur with a small zoom-out effect, that really made the skill pop, and this is missing from the new version,
I hope it's just because its a WIP and camera vfx are missing, but using those camera effects can really make the combat look awesome and its not something flashy that impacts gameplay, so I hope to see this used not only in Air Strike but with other archetype skills!
also, I hope Intrepid didn't pivot from the original idea of not being able to other people's HP bar details, just color indicators, hope this is implemented for A2 we should only see the HP bar going down and the numbers if they are in our guild/party,
Combat looks very good. I really like the abilities, visual effects, and decals. I also like that everything is visually distinct, except for the marks, but those are variations of the same spell, so I think it's fine for them to be only subtly different.
The parallel casting while channeling some of the spells makes the combat look smoother and more interesting too.
"That should be something that everyone roots for. Everyone in this industry and in this community of mmorpg gamers should be rooting for the success of projects like ours. Because innovation only occurs when risk takers move forward to achieve something." - Steven Sharif, last live stream.
Wouldn't that be something if it was actually like that. Steven is right. The deranged comments about Ashes from random people on various forums and social media are a dime a dozen...and unfortunately "normal" in the modern day. In the last few weeks I've seen a couple media articles that took veiled and not so veiled shots at Ashes. Articles written by "professionals." And that's just in the last few weeks.
We know where a lot of this hate comes from, their dislike of the pvp aspects of the game. But even putting that aside, it seems to me these people are just afraid of innovation. Or afraid of that innovation being done by companies and studios that they are not in the fan club of. Meanwhile the genre continues to wither, infested with games that are just like the last game that came out, and ridiculous monetization and so much more.
Intrepid, you guys are knocking it out of the park. As you get closer and closer to release, and as it becomes more apparent to the masses that this game will indeed release, the hate is going to increase a lot. But so will the love. Ignore the hate, keep goin. These people are deranged, grouchy...bullies. They're bullies, thats what they are. You're not conforming to what they think an mmo is so their only mission is to slander and destroy you.
Everything looked great. I've criticized the spell effects every time they're showcased over the last several months. The truth is, what I saw yesterday was still a bit gaudy to me but that's just because I'm such a prude as far as spell effects. But what an improvement. They have improved to the point of not being worth criticizing. They look good.
The skills looked great, the mobility. Reminded me a lot of Archeage. Of course I have some concerns about how it's all going to fit together, how it's all going to pan out in reality, balance etc. And there will certainly be a difference between it being shown in a showcase versus playing it myself. But to answer your question, yes it looks fun. It looks very fun. You're on the right track. And the world looks amazing.
That's all. There's certain things I could maybe nitpick at or express concerns about. But not really. Nothing really even worth it. This is just alpha. You guys are killing it.
Basic Attack - I like the speed (especially considering this was the short bow) Having weapon combos that can be unlocked via the weapon skill tree is great.
Snipe - Nice animation and FX, cast time looks good and I like the 20% increased attack speed proc effect. It would have been interesting to hear how many passive abilities (and proc affects) are planned for the spec tree.
Barrage - Bow go brrrrrr! I like it.
Headshot - Cool animation and when combined with other buffs (like Lightning Reload) could make for some devastating DPS, although I hope that the potential for one-shotting targets is kept to a minimum. I would also like to have heard some of the justification for the colour choices on different abilities. We saw green, gold, purple, red... is there a reason for these choices? are specific colours used for specific types of skills?
Marks - I really like the concept of these. The OGCD (or simultaneous casting) is fantastic and the animations look lovely. (I'm sure the team have thought of a million different types of potential marks) I'd personally love to see Mark of the Wolf, Stag and Scorpion. Or Marks that can be unlocked when you select a secondary archetype. (Mark of the Bowsinger, Soulbow, Strider, Scion, Hawkeye, Scout, Falconer, Sentinel) So much potential with Marks. Love them.
Hunts - Everything I've said about Marks applies to Hunts. All good. I think the decision to "separate" them from the Marks was a good one.
Scatter Shot - I absolutely love everything about this ability. The targeting decal that only the caster can see, the small "jump back" upon completion and the charge time that transforms the ability. I hope to see many more abilities with this kind of philosophy across the different classes. Genuinely S tier ability IMO.
Air Strike - Super fun ability, I liked it a lot when we saw it the first time and it has only improved. Having agency over movement/direction is so important to me. I know others have mentioned that they think the movement is almost too OTT but I am in the the camp of acrobatics FTW! (Would love to see even more acrobatic flourishes added to abilities, like cartwheels, flips and jumps) Like a fantasy version of Trinity in the Matrix.
Thundering Shot - Once again I'm encouraged by the philosophy behind this ability (different uses at different ranges) I do feel as though the AoE FX when shot at range could use a little more TLC as it felt slightly underwhelming. Solid ability that needs a bit more to drive home that difference.
Lightning Reload - Decent combo facilitator although I would like to see the FX dialled up a bit on this one to let others see more clearly that it has been engaged and to allow for purges or interrupts to be implemented.
Bear Trap - Not too big, not too small. 30 seconds seems like a decent amount of time to be out and liked that the trap closes on the target. This type of ability has lots of potential for different stuff to be placed. Caltrops, mines, repellents (similar to the Caravan knock-back ability) Solid.
Call Of The Wild - Standard cleanse with a decent animation. Would be nice to see some variations of this that break CC and allow for an instantaneous blink, dash or roll as well as the general movement speed buff that it currently has. Again, a solid ability with a lot of room for potential future options.
Raining Death - Similarily to Scatter Shot I think the targetting decal is great. Will be nice to see the "homing" behaviour of the arrows refined and developed further. I'm also not sure that an explosion on impact should always be the go-to when an arrow hits its target. Would be cool to see some abilities with the arrows themselves left sticking in the ground for a short period before dissolving.
Disengage - Good animation and as someone who doesn't want to have to spin my camera around to implement a disengage ability, the Omnidirectional Disengage option is a win IMO.
Imbue ammo - Liked these and loved the idea of having different colours (although as I previously mentioned a bit explanation as to why would have been nice)
So overall a nice spread of quality abilities, most of which only require some polish before being Alpha 2 ready. I know that some will strongly disagree with this suggestion but I would like to see some melee abilities that a Ranger could spec into. Like a triple kick that allows for a Ranger to use an attacking melee character as a springboard to "run up and kick off from" before launching into a ranged attack mid-air. Or slipping the bow over an attacking melee character's head to pull them forward into a head butt which stuns them momentarily. Rangers are all about range, obviously, but having a couple of cheeky melee options within the kit would add some real variation and dynamism to the role.
NON-PLAYER CHARACTERS
I was really happy to see the Mycokid variant of the Mycellion Mob. This is a great way of making Mob assets go a lot further in-game. (Different sizes of the same mob) Baby bears, mini spiders (The winter variant of the Giant Webweavers looked good) Giant Ravens! Having lots of different Mob types and variations of the same type of Mob brings a lot of visual dynamism to the world.
A suggestion in regards to Mobs. It might be interesting to consider Mobs "upgrading" and "evolving" over time. Albion Online does this with its mob variants. Encouraging players to explore the world and get off the beaten path to search for mobs that aren't being constantly farmed in highly populated areas. (More HP, More XP, More Loot, etc)
As you can see there are 5 different stages mobs can upgrade through and it's super rewarding to be open-world roaming and to come across a fully upgraded mob. It stops people from camping areas as once a mob is killed it respawns at the lowest tier once again and only upgrades over time if it isn't killed.
Now you don't want to spend a huge amount of Dev time and effort creating bespoke assets for each upgraded tier of Mob. My suggestion would be to have Mobs emit a coloured aura that corresponds with the rarity item colour key Ashes already has laid out. (Grey = Poor, White = Common, Green = Uncommon, Blue = Rare, Purple = Heroic, Red = Epic) With Gold/Orange being reserved for World Bosses.
A Mob would spawn as normal, then after some time would begin emitting a White sparkle or glow (you could have the circle highlight when a Mob is targetted correspond with the different colour or variety as well) and it's HP and DMG output would increase. As more time passes it would upgrade through the ranks changing colour and gaining more HP and DMG output.
It would allow you to essentially have 7 different variants of the same asset by only changing the colour of its rarity and highlight bar. Encourage exploration and provide some more mixed gameplay options.
WORLD
Verra was looking beautiful as per usual, although (and I've mentioned this several times before) I do think that Winter needs a significant injection of colour. I appreciate we aren't seeing the world with all the resource spawners active etc. I just felt like the dried river bed looked a bit bland and wanted to see some kind of cool foliage.
USER INTERFACE
I'll hold off commenting too much on this once again as it is still so WIP, I thought the nameplates and DMG numbers were looking good (Any reason why the HP bar above the character was in green, but the top HP was in red? ) Still would like to see a definitive border around the mini-map.
I'll finish there as this post is getting absurdly long. Thought the Stream was fantastic, loved the combat updates. Brian, Trad and Keenan were all informative and came across well on the Stream. (and of course Steven and Margaret!) Have a very Merry Christmas to all at Intrepid! Good job!
Loot. This is a major thing for me (the reason why I made an account to provide feedback here). I get turned off whenever I get "rare" items too frequently and when my "rare" items are so weak that they're easily replaced. In terms of loot rarity done in World of Warcraft:
I liked vanilla WoW
Disliked The Burning Crusade
Wrath of the Lich King got even worse
After that, it's just a joke
If everyone has "rare" items (and the same rare items as well), then are the items really rare? I want my rare items to mean something. Like I want to inspect someone at max level's gear and say, "OH MY GOD, THEY HAVE NOT ONE, BUT TWO EPIC ITEMS?!" (while they still have one uncommon item that's really good and it still feels good to see in their character sheet). One indicator I'd use is: If an uncommon item (first rarity above common) is seen as trash, then the rarity system is weak. The only time I'd get frustrated is if the only rare items I happen to find are great for others and not myself. Maybe when a rare item is dropping, then do a screening on the player's stats and give them a higher chance of getting big stats that are similar to what the player already has been working towards?
While it is reported no shapeshifters classes, I cannot help but wonder how the "hunt" buffs might be augmented in the class system in that one or more of the magic archetype mixes might turn the Ranger into a shapeshifter from the augmented "hunt" abilities.
How do you feel about the Ranger Archetype Update?
Excellent archetype design and aesthetics. The combat looks fluid and fun to play overall. Kudos to the artists and combat design teams.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype?
It looks fun to play because of the mobility and combat versatility in the field. The class could take on different roles in a party, either as a support for mob control, frontline blitz, caster interruption or as a general dps in raids.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?
It would be nice to see the traps last a bit longer, or if the opposing player does escape the trap, would it make sense to slow their movement for a few seconds to simulate pain or trap damage. In the case of a mage being trapped, they would have a negative impact on concentration and casting for couple seconds.
I was also wondering if the ranger archetype will have certain stat or skill bonuses, example, being a ranger would have perks for identifying herbs and healing recipes? Or having higher evasion rate against beasts like the giant spider?
Overall it was an excellent update and I just wanted to wish everyone in Intrepid a festive and prosperous holiday season.
Overall I really like the ranger and the showcase. The format is good, and I honestly have very few notes other than approval to most of the skills and animations. At first I thought Barrage was a little over the top, but upon rewatching the youtube video, it kinda grew on me.
I would like to dive into the Imbue Ammunition skills though.
It was mentioned you are likely to add more in the future, so here is my take on where I would like to see it go, especially when it comes to the augment system.
1. Adding augments
I hope you already plan on doing this, but a ranger/mage should be able to add the elemental school augments, for example, to these three imbuements. Changing or adding elemental damage to the arrows makes sense, but more than the damage type, I would actually like to see the addition of status effects.
For example, adding a frost augment to the Concussive imbuement will add stacks of the Chilled status effect on top of the already existing Staggered status effect. For balance, you can lower the amount of stacks of each status effect.
Ranger/Rogue should be able to apply poison to those imbuements. Preferably different types of poisons with different effects.
Ranger/Summoner can add an augment to the arrow that summons a small swarm of mites on hit, that harasses the target briefly.
2. Keep the amount of Imbue Ammunition skills on the skillbar fairly low (3 or 4), but let us customize the bejeezus out of them.
So, NOT limited in variety, but in number of imbuement skills you can have at any given time. I would be perfectly happy if you stick to these three types as base types, and then let us customize them. Let the rangers get really nerdy with designing their custom arrows and theory-crafting.
If at all possible, let players have the ability to change the amount of stacks of each effect on a slider. To use the example above with a Concussive arrow with frost augment, let players decide if they want to just apply a single stack of chilled and nine stacks of staggered, or lean into more stacks of chilled for fewer stacks of staggered. Whatever suits their build and playstyle. It would be best to have a balanced default though, for those who care less about the theorycrafting and just want to pew pew.
Was a great stream. The only thing that dissapointed me was the mob leash. Pulling a butt tonne of mobs is good fun and the fact that u couldn't pull all those mobs in that same little area was kind of a bummer.
That was the best class showcase you've shown by far, good job!
My only concern is that ALL of the attacks (except Scatter Shot*) were Tab-Target; not counting AoE attacks because they still don't require aiming, the skill ceiling is very tiny.
As someone who PVPs a lot in BDO on a sweaty high APM Rogue-like class, I would probably run away from PVP in Ashes of Creation. It feels good to improve at a game or be among the best at your class by PVPing for thousands of hours and still have room for improvement. So please, improve the complexity of the combat.
Just because it's not an action-combat game, doesn't mean there won't be any complexity, and a lot of skill and learning involved in actually being good at playing your class.
I just don't understand where this idea comes from. Just because you don't have to aim all of your abilities, doesn't make the skill ceiling "very tiny". There's still positioning, timing, learning what your class can or cannot do, using the right ability at the right time, combos, movement, building your class correctly (in terms of the skills and the gear), and probably some other things I forgot to mention.
It's far from having "a tiny skill ceiling".
Hm, I'll make it simple for you to understand.
Can you do a crazy 1v8 play like that a in tab target combat with similar gear as everyone else?
No, not even close, you press tab then 123 cc boom boom and it's over. This is what I mean by skill ceiling.
This fight lasted 27 seconds (sped up x2), it isn't just a drop of a meteor on a crowd. With all due respect, I think whoever advocates for tab-target is out of touch of what a good combat is like.
I don't want to derail this topic too much, as it is made for feedback on the latest stream.
But no. You have obviously never played PvP in any decent tab-targeting MMO.
Yes, you can do a "crazy 1v8 play like that" in tab target combat.
No, it's not just "press tab then 123 cc boom and it's over".
I mean, that footage just shows everything I hate about BDOs combat, constant dashing around, just dash, dash dash, aoe, dash, dash, aoe. See how similar it sounds to "tab, 123 cc boom"?
With all due respect, I think whoever advocates for tab-target is out of touch of what a good combat is like.
I mean, I could say the same thing about you, because you are obviously out of touch about what a tab-targeting combat is, and what is possible in it.
I do like how the Ranger can buff themselves and their ammo separately. That along with the debuffs to enemies allow for some interesting combat options.
That was the best class showcase you've shown by far, good job!
My only concern is that ALL of the attacks (except Scatter Shot*) were Tab-Target; not counting AoE attacks because they still don't require aiming, the skill ceiling is very tiny.
As someone who PVPs a lot in BDO on a sweaty high APM Rogue-like class, I would probably run away from PVP in Ashes of Creation. It feels good to improve at a game or be among the best at your class by PVPing for thousands of hours and still have room for improvement. So please, improve the complexity of the combat.
Just because it's not an action-combat game, doesn't mean there won't be any complexity, and a lot of skill and learning involved in actually being good at playing your class.
I just don't understand where this idea comes from. Just because you don't have to aim all of your abilities, doesn't make the skill ceiling "very tiny". There's still positioning, timing, learning what your class can or cannot do, using the right ability at the right time, combos, movement, building your class correctly (in terms of the skills and the gear), and probably some other things I forgot to mention.
It's far from having "a tiny skill ceiling".
Hm, I'll make it simple for you to understand.
Can you do a crazy 1v8 play like that a in tab target combat with similar gear as everyone else?
No, not even close, you press tab then 123 cc boom boom and it's over. This is what I mean by skill ceiling.
This fight lasted 27 seconds (sped up x2), it isn't just a drop of a meteor on a crowd. With all due respect, I think whoever advocates for tab-target is out of touch of what a good combat is like.
I don't want to derail this topic too much, as it is made for feedback on the latest stream.
But no. You have obviously never played PvP in any decent tab-targeting MMO.
Yes, you can do a "crazy 1v8 play like that" in tab target combat.
No, it's not just "press tab then 123 cc boom and it's over".
I mean, that footage just shows everything I hate about BDOs combat, constant dashing around, just dash, dash dash, aoe, dash, dash, aoe. See how similar it sounds to "tab, 123 cc boom"?
With all due respect, I think whoever advocates for tab-target is out of touch of what a good combat is like.
I mean, I could say the same thing about you, because you are obviously out of touch about what a tab-targeting combat is, and what is possible in it.
Agreed. Although I have no gripes against people who enjoy BDO, but it's a bad example of good action combat. It's too incredibly fast paced to offer any meaningful form of weighted combat and counter play, as well as offer any semblance of balance for the scope Ashes has in mind, focused on group/raid balance. When I originally played it at launch, I found it nifty for the few months I dabbled with it, but quickly lost interest as it was rabbit on crack combat that just didn't have much charm.
The only MMO imo that executed action combat correctly, would definitely be Tera. Very weighted combat that was extremely impactful...The audio, visual, and animations hit just right. Played a Berserker as my main and absolutely loved it, too bad the game had literally nothing else to offer, ended up dying as a result. The combat was so compelling that it ruined Archeage for me, as I just couldn't enjoy a tab target game after experiencing Tera's combat. As a result I didn't give Archeage much of a chance, which in hindsight was not a bad thing considering the rapid path it made to p2w and killed itself...lol
In regards to Ashes though, I very much understand the focus on making it more tab orientated. When the main goal is to have massive contested content, having BDO's combat system would destroy any possibility of balance. There's nothing enjoyable about one character dashing into a massive of players and aoe damage and kill massive amounts of people. The very nature of BDO was small scale and solo minded play, which is the complete opposite of Ashes intent. Instead, you'll have multiple parties/raids with a main shot caller selecting targets, everyone assisting and focusing targets down. Massive cat and mouse battles as guilds fight for control of contested areas and bosses.
It's a tough scenario, cause I do believe action combat is the future. It's just more immersive and rewards compared to tab, if done right. However, I've already experienced what Ashes PvX system is aiming to bring in Lineage 2, as it's literally identical in flagging, corruption, and the PvX contested nature....BDO's action combat system just would not work for it. Tera's combat may have been adaptable however, but not as balance appropriate compared to tab. Not everyone has twitch reflexes with FPS skills for aiming, hence the obvious tab focus. But the more I think about what Ashes will bring with their PvX, it really does make sense on the tab approach, as dismayed as I am about it =*(. If they could of brought Tera's action combat and adapted it to Ashes, that would literally put ashes one step above it's already impressive standing.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype?
In my mind, Rangers are more than just a person with a bow. They are the scouts and adventurers of the land with high perception of their surroundings and formidable survival skills. Some Ranger specific off-combat skills and abilities would be fun to see to boost that idea that this archetype is more than just ranged damage dealer. I would also like to see how Ranger handles melee weapons and how the weapons of choice effects their play style in different situations. Traps and planning ahead were a nice things the show and be mentioned in the showcase.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?
Overall the Ranger Archetype Update was very exciting. The mobility skills like Disengage and Air Strike (dunno if I'm fan of the name though) were the stars of the show and it brought a lot of movement to the combat and shows what they are offering to the archetype. Using Air Strike to get over a chasm was super cool!
The thing that I am concerned about is the basic attack speed. During the showcase I was in the impression that the basic attacks were an ability of some kind but at some point I noticed that it actually is the basic attacks and I was baffled of how fast it was. I understand that it needs to be balanced to other weapons combos and attack speeds (like the daggers) but even for a short bow this felt way too fast and it also takes something away from Barrage (the rapid fire ability) and makes it seem less like a skill and more like a slightly improved basic attack combo.
The pacing of the battle seemed fun (excluding the machine gun like basic attacks) and the mobility animations were good. Scatter Shot ground visuals could be toned down a bit even though they are only shown to the Ranger. Marks and Hunts might be a good place to allow players to branch out to different play styles based on their specialization of a certain Mark and/or Hunt.
Are there similar archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
As a melee player any encounter with a Ranger (Hunter etc.) in a PvP situation is usually an uphill battle for me and I am fine with it even though it hurts to get into a fight that I know I can't win. I get that the typical Ranger is assumed to be good at keeping their distance to their foes but I'd hope to see a melee /ranged hybrid Ranger as a viable option also to cater more play styles and more RP.
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leameseMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Generally i feel the game is progressing in the right direction. so i will try and give constructive feedback for improvements
1. green laser ranger shot
you have to walk around then start the process. This makes it hard if you want the fully charged straight line, exactly where you want it to go.
ideas: so there should be a way to make you charcter face a direction with a button/mouse.
or have the option when you activate the skill it points to where your mouse is at.
or ..
2. at one point he fires a 'blue mark'. while standing on a rock, the projectile wants to travel via the ground, not air (shortest path). that seemed weird and wondering if that is as intended.
3. at one point the ranger was shooting arrows at a mushroom target behind him. Even for a fantasy game, i feel you can't aim behind you, you can't fire arrows behind you AND hit them all perfectly. maybe if it is speccable in the skill tree where the ranger magicly can aim in his back.. idk.
4. Skill tree & risk vs reward:
i dislike that you can spec everything. That will make the class more generic and gives it less identity.
a tank killer ranger will spec differently then a mage killer, different then AOE dmg ranger.
the skill tree should be big enough to not be able to spec everything. maybe speccing 70% off all options is reasonable?
Could work with a tier system
1
2
3
4
working with different requirements. for instance Tier 3: have 15 points in tier 2. could work in tier circles for the 'free-from' approach. Speccing everything would make it fair for everyone, true. but i still like the uniqueness, diversity in builds, and risk vs reward in speccing. if i chose this, then i will not have that. you could chose to do more burst dmg, but have less mobility etc..
5. dmg counters should pop immediatly, not with a delay
status effects should pop to. stunned, rooted, .. different color?
6. UI
the 'x' button to close a ui screen is pretty small. When the mouse is around that area, you probably want to close the screen.
Question:
Will there be a way so we can jump higher, further? adventure skills?
Will we be able to backflip/jump and air strike? Or while falling, use airstrke? probably not because there is no ground underneath to jump from. Still asking..
Amazing update. Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to everyone at intrepid.
The ranger update looks exceptional in every aspect. However, Interpid should add one additional non-tab target feature. That feature should be something like extended range for certain spells in action camera mode. That would increase the skill cap and still allow combat to remain mostly tab target and feel neutral. Can you imagine an exhausting PVP battle that ends with your enemy running away only to be shot down from a 100 yards away by a lucky skill shot?
I know its alpha one still, but i dont like that im forced to spec into traps before the raven abilities and headshot. I feel trap should be an optional ability later on. Everything else looked amazing
I don`t understand why they have startet with this beauty:
and moved to that main-stream-thing:
I was so delited to see, I can concentrate on what i wanna skill without going through skill tree paths...
I have to say I am disappointed, does anyone have thoughts on that matter?.
Hi.
Have been following this project for a couple of years but remained silent.
Amazing showcase this month. I could clearly see the progress comparing the previous state of Archer archetype.
What I liked:
- the overall concept of Archer. Obv haven't played it myself but from the video it seems the balance between mobility, cc and potential damage is quite right. I personally think giving too much escape skills to Archer quickly becomes toxic. There are Rogues for that.
- different marks, hunts and ammo is a good touch. That way, Archer gameplay would not be too linear and you won't be too predictable in pvp and could switch between max dps, dps+debuff and dps+buff in pve
- animation theme is pleasant and mark animal idea is superb visually.
some other thoughts:
- Color schemes. I don't know if I'm a minority in this, but I strongly feel that every class in MMORPGs should have a distinctive and limited color palette. 2 or 3 prime colors max. Archer right now already has green, blue, yellow and red. And I'm sure there are more. Headshot red color really feels out of place. Let's say Cleric has two prime colors. White and golden. Warrior - brown and red. Rogue - black and gray. And so on. And it may seem limited or rigid, but there are hundreds of shades of each color. That way each archetype would be distinctive not only in gameplay and sounds but also in visuals. (I understand that there are secondary classes. Which only cements my argument IMHO because with addition of colors from secondary classes every character would look like a Christmas firework)
- I think Archer archetype must have a skill of some kind of guaranteed hit. Let's say True shot - your next skill will be a guaranteed hit and critical strike. Archer usually has a very limited target hard cc skills with long cd and his life depends on actually making it connect. It is extremely crucial in pvp and sometimes in pve. Mages have tons of shields and cc in late game, Rogues have dodges and invis, Tanks are fat and sturdy, Summoners have pets to mitigate or share dmg and so on. Archers in mmos are usually dead as soon as they miss their prime skill or cleanse is on cd
My favorite classes are summoner and archer with animal companion. Can't wait to see the product of Archer+Summoner and Summoner+Archer.
Have a great holidays and I wish you a great inspiration in the upcoming year.
I was so delited to see, I can concentrate on what i wanna skill without going through skill tree paths...
I have to say I am disappointed, does anyone have thoughts on that matter?.
I prefer the skill tree path system if it makes sense and the choices are impactful. I like the idea of mutually exclusive skills and branches, which is hard to do with completely free choice.
This looks strong and fun to play. A great spot to be in for Alpha. I enjoyed seeing the improvements. I would very much like to see what a Melee Ranger would also have to offer or how to balance a mix of the two. I was pleased to see that the combat effects were not overwhelming but rather well-balanced as far as "flashy-ness" goes. I understand this is something that I may be able to tone down some on my side of the screen but it would be nice to not have to do that.
First of all, congratulations to the AoC team! The showcase was amazing and was really pleasant to watch how the game has improve again. Im sooo hyped to play the ranger after watching this (even being mage main).
Q.How do you feel about the Ranger Archetype Update?
A. I really think its going in a good direcntion, it looks cool and fresh but it still feels like there are loose ends to tie up.
Q.What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype?
A.Well as a mage main I didn´t spect to select the range as second option but after watching the showcase I may end doing it, I see huge potential in the movility it has for pvp. As I said I may end playing it and that´s because I like how the terrain seems to influence the coombat system and this class with the movility, range, traps, etc... looks like can be a really cool experience.
Q.Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?
A.Alrady comented what im excited for with the sception on how will this class work with the rogue archetype, if its kind of a stealthy explorer with good 1v1 and outplay potential it me be my favourite class along mage. And a special mention with the holding mechanic added to the aoe hability that can make it more focused, I think that is very original and awesome.
My principals concers are aligned with a lot of the post i have seen from the comunity in this discussion:
The animations have improved a lot and I like the effects but from my perspective the flashy ones has to be reserved when the ranger is combinated with other archetypes. For me they aren´t that outstanding as other people claim, with just little adjustements could be nice. For exaple for me the SNIPE animation is perfect, still flashy but its like the wind and the charge, that doesn´t seem too "magical", the headshot could just be the red arrow without the charge animation (until its combined as i said) and it would be fine for me to.
The basic attacks are too much and too fast, specially when combined with the bonus attack speed makes fast fire looks like a long cast of autos and I don´t like the that feeling unless im using an empower autoattack skill. I think that reducing the number of arrows in the animation of the basic would improve it a lot.
Also would like the animation of the arrows have at least two or 3 diffferent patterns so the pathing of them are not always the same, it may be more direct, or rigth to left and viceversa. It would be awesome.
4rd concern for me is about the skills. For me 3 ammo skills, 3 marks skills, and 3 hunts skill all of them being buffs feel reduntant and don´t take me wrong, I think that having access to that variety as a range is ok with this archetype, and you can only use 1 mark at the time so it´s like one button but i think that all of them will become a button that won´t feel good to press and will be macroed (if its possible) because to minmax this character it will take to much time and attention to press buttons that are not doing "anything" by itself they are just mandatory accesories that has to be care about instead of focusing on your rotation, positioning, enemies, etc... To avoid this, i would let hunts as they are, i dont see anything wrong on having different permanent buff skills, i would increase the ammo cast time, so finding the moment to use it taking adventage other skills, movement, etc... and being rewarded with a powerfull dmg window would be the fun part of the skill, also would make it last longer for balance purposes. Finally i would reduce the mark to only 1 button and the type of mark has to be selected at the talent tree. While the class still have access to a variety of marks, it will become the "burst" skill not one of the 3 same spells that i have to put in your keybinds and also will feel better to see how your mark selection pays out because you have to plan it beforehand, and i think all players love when their plans success.
Final concern is about the cast of aoe skills not being visible to the other players, I think this is awesome but I miss some indication when the spell is already casted to see where will it land. I mention this for the pvp scenario, in battles where there will be spells landing everywhere with animations, would be nice to have clear indications to know when will the spells land (when they are already casted) so you can try to avoid and aoutplay them or maybe come up with an idea to use another way to reach your target.
Q.Are there similar archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
A. Well I mained bow/spear build in new world and it was fantastic, that build makes you a fast explorer with a hit and run playstyle and good 1v1 that feel so good to play. I know that this game won´t have a similar combat system but I can imagine a good mix between that role feeling and the ranger you showed us. Also would like something inspired in marskman hunter in wow retail with a long bow beeing a sniper and having a lot of danger at long distances but having little options on the short ones (this last point is what i miss in wow retail hunter archetype).
In general, very good stuff!! Excited to watch the other archetypes and how will they work when combined .
How do you feel about the Ranger Archetype Update?
Looks promising, I liked it.
A little unsure of the mobility of the class due to stationary skills.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype?
The unique skill ideas, which I didn't see in other games.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?
Airstrike is so cool, i love it.
Concern 1: Long term balancing of the class. A lot of people already asked to nerf it.
Would be nice to have a ranger class, which can survive a 1v1 scenario, if the attacker had the 1st move, and wouldn't die in 5 seconds stuck in a CC combo.
Concern 2: Multiple charging/stationary skills. Against melee the only thing the class can do is kiting.
Are there similar archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
Dislike: Archeage Archer. It was a fun, fast and mobile class. However it was nerfed so many times, now only 1 build is somewhat viable, and even that has no chance against the melee/mage meta builds 1v1.
Like: Guild Wars 2 Ranger. Build variety, and all are viable options.
Depending on your playstyle you can have a survival build, dealing decent damage, but with enough health and skills to survive if someone jumps you. Or you can be a glass cannon crit build, or a condition build etc... All are viable 1v1 against other classes.
How do you feel about the Ranger Archetype Update?
This stream was a pleasure to watch and to see how far the game is coming along really brings good promise. As long as all the other classes receive the passion that the ranger has, there is no doubt AoC will be a killer in the franchise that people will be playing for a long time. Combat should be #1 priority as that is was is going to keep people coming back over and over, it's involved in almost every aspect of an MMO.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype?
Movement is always fun, not being restricted to standing still skills and gameplay feeling fluid is such a freeing experience. Rangers are squishy, burst heavy kind of archetypes and that seems to be what you're nailing here.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?
One thing I would like ot see changed based on what happened in the video is to increase the mob chain length. The worst thing to have happen is be in the middle of a fight and the mob just run back to where it spawns at. I remember in Lineage 2 having to run essentially across the whole zone to escape a mob and that was an exhillerating experience. Maybe a nice thing to do is based on the mobs threat level to you (mobs higher level to you would be more threatening, closer or below your level would be less threatening), they have a long chain distance or shorter based on that threat level. But overall, the lowest chain distance should be at least twice as far as it is now because big pulls are fun and people low to do big pulls if they can.
Are there similar archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
N/A
Thanks for reading and bringing it to the table as always!
At this point with how long I've been following the progress of this game, seeing the last few updates really encouraged me to get into Alpha 2. That being said the Ranger Archetype Update was the push I needed to invest more than I would with a regular title. It's been about a year since the Ranged Weapon Update showcase and I'm amazed at how far the team has come with developing the ranger class. I'm taking this update from the perspective of someone who'll be fighting against this class since I have a preference to playing casters, so that's the lens I'll be speaking through with my thoughts in this post.
1. How do you feel about the Ranger Archetype Update?
It honestly reminded me of the archer archetype in Archeage. I know that AoC gets some influence from the game and this update is very reminiscent of how the archer played. Snipe as an alpha strike ability is perfect and will definitely catch people off guard if mixed with a rogue stealth ability when you get your second archetype. The damage is quite insane when paired with mark of the bear. I'd be interested to see how much damage the combination of marks and abilities will do to different armor types. We already had a tank in this showcase and he was getting wrecked, what more would it be for casters and healers that wear cloth. We saw a bit of that but I'd like to see more. Scatter shot as an aoe ability is really smartly designed, I think giving the players some depth when using a skill will be good for other archetypes as well. The movement with disengage looked really fluid and easy to use. I like that you can climb on objects and immediately disengage when you want to. Watching the skills used in actual combat was a treat, the game is really starting to shape up with it's gameplay. Although I feel like the tank should have had more threat, either that or Steven should have waited for the mobs to group up. A larger pull radius would be better for grouping up mobs as well. Overall I feel good about the Ranger update.
2. What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype?
Ranger or archer type classes aren't my style in MMOs but fighting against them will be interesting. Playing Mage vs a Ranger seems quite scary cause of their burst. I'm excited to know how the team balances that aspect of the game. As for having a Ranger on my own team, I feel like I can think of a lot of ways to synergies with their utility to take down packs of mobs or threats in pvp.
3. Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?
I saw there the Ranger was flinching when being hit by mobs, does that mean certain skills can be interrupted when being getting hit? Steven was able to combo the Tank down in 4-5 skills, just wondering if this is the intended damage output for actual pvp.
4. Are there similar archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
I've played wow for years and I dislike that you're stuck having a pet all the time to make up a lot of your dps. With Ranger in AoC i'm glad that the base Ranger doesn't come with a pet. Although I'm interested to see how Summoner will be designed and how it's augments will affect Ranger and other classes. Archer from Archeage was able to be combined with other defensive and utility archetypes, interested to see how AoC will expand on Archers filling other roles or acquiring other utility through augmentation.
the work you've done on the ranger is excellent.
what we've seen really makes you want to play it.
i loved what steven said, fun above all.
you've made the effort to open up the talent tree to show us the detail, you've explained the different combat postures the class will have.
for all that, thanks again.
i suspect you've also made changes to the classes we've already seen.
can't wait to see what you do with the rogue.
don't forget that your little alpha ones would love to have the opportunity to take part in testing, and are ready to sign any nda you want.
keep it up, you're holding the best mmo of all time.
happy holidays to all
Baron of Shadows
Graveyard's Grin
Your bones dance to my rhythm
3.-Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?
The ranger looks quite good! Between the last ranger showcase and this one, we have now seen two different types of bow, the short and long.
While I understand the bow & arrow fantasy of classic ranger, I do not think it is beyond the fantasy and the lore of this world to also have the technology for other ranged weapons such as Crossbows and even guns.
Perhaps there are plans for these which have yet to be revealed? As I don't have a crystal ball I would like to mention it here.
Between the other various long range weapons such as crossbow, there is a lot of room for skill and DPS variation, such as burst damage potential, or more status debuffing from certain kinds of ammunition or weapon type. Think tranquilizer types of ammunition, defense down ammunition, etc
When a gun is done correctly inside an RPG, yes it feels powerful but it also feels amazing to hear the shot go off, get the recoil, reload, etc.
4. Are there similar archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
To this day, I am still playing Final Fantasy XI. The Ranger is a heavy physical DPS in this game which can use bow, xbow, and gun. There is a support class called the Corsair which exclusively uses a gun for a ranged attack (the best weaponskill for corsair deals magic damage though) while also offering party support buffs.
I realize AoC will be much different and that is something to which I look forward. However it would be nice to see other ranged variations other than just a bow.
Comments
Awesome! It seemed fast and fluid and it really felt like the class had all the basic tools it needs to fulfill it's role. The sounds and animations were great and added to the class. I love the ability to tailor and combine the abilities as I use them. It will have a high skill ceiling which is great!
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype?
It really felt like the Ranger has less of an ability rotation and more like a large set of tools that they can use at their discretion. Archer classes in WoW and FFXIV were far too rigid, it was always a very specific rotation of very rigid abilities that you would be using the same way over and over again. As much as I enjoyed playing the Hunter and Bard, they both got boring as hell after a while and I always wound up needing to take breaks from them. It looks like you are trying to avoid that level of rigidity in combat, so thank you!
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?
A concern, or maybe just a question, about the demo was with Snipe. The only way it was used that I saw was with a long windup. That's not really an exciting way to enter combat. I'm just hoping that a very long lead-in to combat is not the only way we can kick things off effectively. I can't speak for everyone, but a lot of bow players want long windup abilities to be a situational exception, not the norm. Regular casting and channeling is more of a magic user thing. Scatter Shot however, was great. It had a casting element that changed the function of the ability. That's not boring casting, that's just added versatility.
Are there similar archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
Loved Hunter in WoW, Liked Bard in FFXIV, All bow classes in EQ2 felt far too clunky and hard to use. The others are really nameless and faceless to be honest. Most of the time its just you pushing buttons while wearing skimpy armor and holding a bow. More of a wardrobe/waifu choice than anything else, really bad.
What I really want to see, and you managed to show it, is a large set of tools that I can mix and match as I see fit. Making a Ranger feel "casty and channely" is a mistake. It needs to be fast and fluid above all. Its abilities need to be used in multiple ways. Versatility and utility fulfills that fantasy of a nature based woodsman and huntsman that people are anticipating when they choose this archetype.
As an example you changed Airstrike to allow free directional movement instead of a fixed landing point which is exactly what was needed, so thank you. The number of uses for that skill multiply just with that single change. For example Steven even showed one, he used the ability to jump up to the top of a ledge, then he used it to span the gap between two ledges. Two similar but different uses for the same ability that were opened up with one simple change to Airstrike's behavior. I would actually love to see all the Ranger abilities have this level of versatility and as you are developing the class look to add small subtle nuances that players can explore.
Building the class this way feels, when you are playing, less like you are learning a class, and more like you are discovering and unlocking one. We will see a lot of crazy and exciting things players do with these classes.
Amazing job so far, I can't wait to play a Ranger!
The Ranger having all these jumps is neat, and they look great. It seems very fun to play with or against.
I'm a bit concerned that groups of Rangers could become rather oppressive, but I'm curious to see what tools other archetypes will get to deal with this.
The archetype and weapon skill tree were very interesting, giving players the omnidirectional jump as an option is awesome, and it shows again how much you care about providing players with a good experience.
The Rapid-Fire Bow is insane! I love it!
Also, Bear Trap? That's a thing is huge! What kind of bears are you trying to catch with that?
I think a better question is... what kind of bears are you seeing? If you have faced a large bear, you would argue those traps are grossly inadequate.
I hope it's just because its a WIP and camera vfx are missing, but using those camera effects can really make the combat look awesome and its not something flashy that impacts gameplay, so I hope to see this used not only in Air Strike but with other archetype skills!
also, I hope Intrepid didn't pivot from the original idea of not being able to other people's HP bar details, just color indicators, hope this is implemented for A2 we should only see the HP bar going down and the numbers if they are in our guild/party,
The skill tree look interesting.
Also, the flexibility sounds nice. Those doing the midrange shortbow can spec to be more mobile, while long range longbow can spec for more dps.
The front cone that can be narrowed is a nice attack.
The parallel casting while channeling some of the spells makes the combat look smoother and more interesting too.
Wouldn't that be something if it was actually like that. Steven is right. The deranged comments about Ashes from random people on various forums and social media are a dime a dozen...and unfortunately "normal" in the modern day. In the last few weeks I've seen a couple media articles that took veiled and not so veiled shots at Ashes. Articles written by "professionals." And that's just in the last few weeks.
We know where a lot of this hate comes from, their dislike of the pvp aspects of the game. But even putting that aside, it seems to me these people are just afraid of innovation. Or afraid of that innovation being done by companies and studios that they are not in the fan club of. Meanwhile the genre continues to wither, infested with games that are just like the last game that came out, and ridiculous monetization and so much more.
Intrepid, you guys are knocking it out of the park. As you get closer and closer to release, and as it becomes more apparent to the masses that this game will indeed release, the hate is going to increase a lot. But so will the love. Ignore the hate, keep goin. These people are deranged, grouchy...bullies. They're bullies, thats what they are. You're not conforming to what they think an mmo is so their only mission is to slander and destroy you.
Everything looked great. I've criticized the spell effects every time they're showcased over the last several months. The truth is, what I saw yesterday was still a bit gaudy to me but that's just because I'm such a prude as far as spell effects. But what an improvement. They have improved to the point of not being worth criticizing. They look good.
The skills looked great, the mobility. Reminded me a lot of Archeage. Of course I have some concerns about how it's all going to fit together, how it's all going to pan out in reality, balance etc. And there will certainly be a difference between it being shown in a showcase versus playing it myself. But to answer your question, yes it looks fun. It looks very fun. You're on the right track. And the world looks amazing.
That's all. There's certain things I could maybe nitpick at or express concerns about. But not really. Nothing really even worth it. This is just alpha. You guys are killing it.
Basic Attack - I like the speed (especially considering this was the short bow) Having weapon combos that can be unlocked via the weapon skill tree is great.
Snipe - Nice animation and FX, cast time looks good and I like the 20% increased attack speed proc effect. It would have been interesting to hear how many passive abilities (and proc affects) are planned for the spec tree.
Barrage - Bow go brrrrrr! I like it.
Headshot - Cool animation and when combined with other buffs (like Lightning Reload) could make for some devastating DPS, although I hope that the potential for one-shotting targets is kept to a minimum. I would also like to have heard some of the justification for the colour choices on different abilities. We saw green, gold, purple, red... is there a reason for these choices? are specific colours used for specific types of skills?
Marks - I really like the concept of these. The OGCD (or simultaneous casting) is fantastic and the animations look lovely. (I'm sure the team have thought of a million different types of potential marks) I'd personally love to see Mark of the Wolf, Stag and Scorpion. Or Marks that can be unlocked when you select a secondary archetype. (Mark of the Bowsinger, Soulbow, Strider, Scion, Hawkeye, Scout, Falconer, Sentinel) So much potential with Marks. Love them.
Hunts - Everything I've said about Marks applies to Hunts. All good. I think the decision to "separate" them from the Marks was a good one.
Scatter Shot - I absolutely love everything about this ability. The targeting decal that only the caster can see, the small "jump back" upon completion and the charge time that transforms the ability. I hope to see many more abilities with this kind of philosophy across the different classes. Genuinely S tier ability IMO.
Air Strike - Super fun ability, I liked it a lot when we saw it the first time and it has only improved. Having agency over movement/direction is so important to me. I know others have mentioned that they think the movement is almost too OTT but I am in the the camp of acrobatics FTW! (Would love to see even more acrobatic flourishes added to abilities, like cartwheels, flips and jumps) Like a fantasy version of Trinity in the Matrix.
Thundering Shot - Once again I'm encouraged by the philosophy behind this ability (different uses at different ranges) I do feel as though the AoE FX when shot at range could use a little more TLC as it felt slightly underwhelming. Solid ability that needs a bit more to drive home that difference.
Lightning Reload - Decent combo facilitator although I would like to see the FX dialled up a bit on this one to let others see more clearly that it has been engaged and to allow for purges or interrupts to be implemented.
Bear Trap - Not too big, not too small. 30 seconds seems like a decent amount of time to be out and liked that the trap closes on the target. This type of ability has lots of potential for different stuff to be placed. Caltrops, mines, repellents (similar to the Caravan knock-back ability) Solid.
Call Of The Wild - Standard cleanse with a decent animation. Would be nice to see some variations of this that break CC and allow for an instantaneous blink, dash or roll as well as the general movement speed buff that it currently has. Again, a solid ability with a lot of room for potential future options.
Raining Death - Similarily to Scatter Shot I think the targetting decal is great. Will be nice to see the "homing" behaviour of the arrows refined and developed further. I'm also not sure that an explosion on impact should always be the go-to when an arrow hits its target. Would be cool to see some abilities with the arrows themselves left sticking in the ground for a short period before dissolving.
Disengage - Good animation and as someone who doesn't want to have to spin my camera around to implement a disengage ability, the Omnidirectional Disengage option is a win IMO.
Imbue ammo - Liked these and loved the idea of having different colours (although as I previously mentioned a bit explanation as to why would have been nice)
So overall a nice spread of quality abilities, most of which only require some polish before being Alpha 2 ready. I know that some will strongly disagree with this suggestion but I would like to see some melee abilities that a Ranger could spec into. Like a triple kick that allows for a Ranger to use an attacking melee character as a springboard to "run up and kick off from" before launching into a ranged attack mid-air. Or slipping the bow over an attacking melee character's head to pull them forward into a head butt which stuns them momentarily. Rangers are all about range, obviously, but having a couple of cheeky melee options within the kit would add some real variation and dynamism to the role.
NON-PLAYER CHARACTERS
I was really happy to see the Mycokid variant of the Mycellion Mob. This is a great way of making Mob assets go a lot further in-game. (Different sizes of the same mob) Baby bears, mini spiders (The winter variant of the Giant Webweavers looked good) Giant Ravens! Having lots of different Mob types and variations of the same type of Mob brings a lot of visual dynamism to the world.
A suggestion in regards to Mobs. It might be interesting to consider Mobs "upgrading" and "evolving" over time. Albion Online does this with its mob variants. Encouraging players to explore the world and get off the beaten path to search for mobs that aren't being constantly farmed in highly populated areas. (More HP, More XP, More Loot, etc)
As you can see there are 5 different stages mobs can upgrade through and it's super rewarding to be open-world roaming and to come across a fully upgraded mob. It stops people from camping areas as once a mob is killed it respawns at the lowest tier once again and only upgrades over time if it isn't killed.
Now you don't want to spend a huge amount of Dev time and effort creating bespoke assets for each upgraded tier of Mob. My suggestion would be to have Mobs emit a coloured aura that corresponds with the rarity item colour key Ashes already has laid out. (Grey = Poor, White = Common, Green = Uncommon, Blue = Rare, Purple = Heroic, Red = Epic) With Gold/Orange being reserved for World Bosses.
A Mob would spawn as normal, then after some time would begin emitting a White sparkle or glow (you could have the circle highlight when a Mob is targetted correspond with the different colour or variety as well) and it's HP and DMG output would increase. As more time passes it would upgrade through the ranks changing colour and gaining more HP and DMG output.
It would allow you to essentially have 7 different variants of the same asset by only changing the colour of its rarity and highlight bar. Encourage exploration and provide some more mixed gameplay options.
WORLD
Verra was looking beautiful as per usual, although (and I've mentioned this several times before) I do think that Winter needs a significant injection of colour. I appreciate we aren't seeing the world with all the resource spawners active etc. I just felt like the dried river bed looked a bit bland and wanted to see some kind of cool foliage.
USER INTERFACE
I'll hold off commenting too much on this once again as it is still so WIP, I thought the nameplates and DMG numbers were looking good (Any reason why the HP bar above the character was in green, but the top HP was in red? ) Still would like to see a definitive border around the mini-map.
I'll finish there as this post is getting absurdly long. Thought the Stream was fantastic, loved the combat updates. Brian, Trad and Keenan were all informative and came across well on the Stream. (and of course Steven and Margaret!) Have a very Merry Christmas to all at Intrepid! Good job!
If everyone has "rare" items (and the same rare items as well), then are the items really rare? I want my rare items to mean something. Like I want to inspect someone at max level's gear and say, "OH MY GOD, THEY HAVE NOT ONE, BUT TWO EPIC ITEMS?!" (while they still have one uncommon item that's really good and it still feels good to see in their character sheet). One indicator I'd use is: If an uncommon item (first rarity above common) is seen as trash, then the rarity system is weak. The only time I'd get frustrated is if the only rare items I happen to find are great for others and not myself. Maybe when a rare item is dropping, then do a screening on the player's stats and give them a higher chance of getting big stats that are similar to what the player already has been working towards?
Excellent archetype design and aesthetics. The combat looks fluid and fun to play overall. Kudos to the artists and combat design teams.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype?
It looks fun to play because of the mobility and combat versatility in the field. The class could take on different roles in a party, either as a support for mob control, frontline blitz, caster interruption or as a general dps in raids.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?
It would be nice to see the traps last a bit longer, or if the opposing player does escape the trap, would it make sense to slow their movement for a few seconds to simulate pain or trap damage. In the case of a mage being trapped, they would have a negative impact on concentration and casting for couple seconds.
I was also wondering if the ranger archetype will have certain stat or skill bonuses, example, being a ranger would have perks for identifying herbs and healing recipes? Or having higher evasion rate against beasts like the giant spider?
Overall it was an excellent update and I just wanted to wish everyone in Intrepid a festive and prosperous holiday season.
I would like to dive into the Imbue Ammunition skills though.
It was mentioned you are likely to add more in the future, so here is my take on where I would like to see it go, especially when it comes to the augment system.
1. Adding augments
I hope you already plan on doing this, but a ranger/mage should be able to add the elemental school augments, for example, to these three imbuements. Changing or adding elemental damage to the arrows makes sense, but more than the damage type, I would actually like to see the addition of status effects.
For example, adding a frost augment to the Concussive imbuement will add stacks of the Chilled status effect on top of the already existing Staggered status effect. For balance, you can lower the amount of stacks of each status effect.
Ranger/Rogue should be able to apply poison to those imbuements. Preferably different types of poisons with different effects.
Ranger/Summoner can add an augment to the arrow that summons a small swarm of mites on hit, that harasses the target briefly.
2. Keep the amount of Imbue Ammunition skills on the skillbar fairly low (3 or 4), but let us customize the bejeezus out of them.
So, NOT limited in variety, but in number of imbuement skills you can have at any given time. I would be perfectly happy if you stick to these three types as base types, and then let us customize them. Let the rangers get really nerdy with designing their custom arrows and theory-crafting.
If at all possible, let players have the ability to change the amount of stacks of each effect on a slider. To use the example above with a Concussive arrow with frost augment, let players decide if they want to just apply a single stack of chilled and nine stacks of staggered, or lean into more stacks of chilled for fewer stacks of staggered. Whatever suits their build and playstyle. It would be best to have a balanced default though, for those who care less about the theorycrafting and just want to pew pew.
I don't want to derail this topic too much, as it is made for feedback on the latest stream.
But no. You have obviously never played PvP in any decent tab-targeting MMO.
Yes, you can do a "crazy 1v8 play like that" in tab target combat.
No, it's not just "press tab then 123 cc boom and it's over".
I mean, that footage just shows everything I hate about BDOs combat, constant dashing around, just dash, dash dash, aoe, dash, dash, aoe. See how similar it sounds to "tab, 123 cc boom"?
I mean, I could say the same thing about you, because you are obviously out of touch about what a tab-targeting combat is, and what is possible in it.
Agreed. Although I have no gripes against people who enjoy BDO, but it's a bad example of good action combat. It's too incredibly fast paced to offer any meaningful form of weighted combat and counter play, as well as offer any semblance of balance for the scope Ashes has in mind, focused on group/raid balance. When I originally played it at launch, I found it nifty for the few months I dabbled with it, but quickly lost interest as it was rabbit on crack combat that just didn't have much charm.
The only MMO imo that executed action combat correctly, would definitely be Tera. Very weighted combat that was extremely impactful...The audio, visual, and animations hit just right. Played a Berserker as my main and absolutely loved it, too bad the game had literally nothing else to offer, ended up dying as a result. The combat was so compelling that it ruined Archeage for me, as I just couldn't enjoy a tab target game after experiencing Tera's combat. As a result I didn't give Archeage much of a chance, which in hindsight was not a bad thing considering the rapid path it made to p2w and killed itself...lol
In regards to Ashes though, I very much understand the focus on making it more tab orientated. When the main goal is to have massive contested content, having BDO's combat system would destroy any possibility of balance. There's nothing enjoyable about one character dashing into a massive of players and aoe damage and kill massive amounts of people. The very nature of BDO was small scale and solo minded play, which is the complete opposite of Ashes intent. Instead, you'll have multiple parties/raids with a main shot caller selecting targets, everyone assisting and focusing targets down. Massive cat and mouse battles as guilds fight for control of contested areas and bosses.
It's a tough scenario, cause I do believe action combat is the future. It's just more immersive and rewards compared to tab, if done right. However, I've already experienced what Ashes PvX system is aiming to bring in Lineage 2, as it's literally identical in flagging, corruption, and the PvX contested nature....BDO's action combat system just would not work for it. Tera's combat may have been adaptable however, but not as balance appropriate compared to tab. Not everyone has twitch reflexes with FPS skills for aiming, hence the obvious tab focus. But the more I think about what Ashes will bring with their PvX, it really does make sense on the tab approach, as dismayed as I am about it =*(. If they could of brought Tera's action combat and adapted it to Ashes, that would literally put ashes one step above it's already impressive standing.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype?
In my mind, Rangers are more than just a person with a bow. They are the scouts and adventurers of the land with high perception of their surroundings and formidable survival skills. Some Ranger specific off-combat skills and abilities would be fun to see to boost that idea that this archetype is more than just ranged damage dealer. I would also like to see how Ranger handles melee weapons and how the weapons of choice effects their play style in different situations. Traps and planning ahead were a nice things the show and be mentioned in the showcase.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?
Overall the Ranger Archetype Update was very exciting. The mobility skills like Disengage and Air Strike (dunno if I'm fan of the name though) were the stars of the show and it brought a lot of movement to the combat and shows what they are offering to the archetype. Using Air Strike to get over a chasm was super cool!
The thing that I am concerned about is the basic attack speed. During the showcase I was in the impression that the basic attacks were an ability of some kind but at some point I noticed that it actually is the basic attacks and I was baffled of how fast it was. I understand that it needs to be balanced to other weapons combos and attack speeds (like the daggers) but even for a short bow this felt way too fast and it also takes something away from Barrage (the rapid fire ability) and makes it seem less like a skill and more like a slightly improved basic attack combo.
The pacing of the battle seemed fun (excluding the machine gun like basic attacks) and the mobility animations were good. Scatter Shot ground visuals could be toned down a bit even though they are only shown to the Ranger. Marks and Hunts might be a good place to allow players to branch out to different play styles based on their specialization of a certain Mark and/or Hunt.
Are there similar archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
As a melee player any encounter with a Ranger (Hunter etc.) in a PvP situation is usually an uphill battle for me and I am fine with it even though it hurts to get into a fight that I know I can't win. I get that the typical Ranger is assumed to be good at keeping their distance to their foes but I'd hope to see a melee /ranged hybrid Ranger as a viable option also to cater more play styles and more RP.
1. green laser ranger shot
you have to walk around then start the process. This makes it hard if you want the fully charged straight line, exactly where you want it to go.
ideas: so there should be a way to make you charcter face a direction with a button/mouse.
or have the option when you activate the skill it points to where your mouse is at.
or ..
2. at one point he fires a 'blue mark'. while standing on a rock, the projectile wants to travel via the ground, not air (shortest path). that seemed weird and wondering if that is as intended.
3. at one point the ranger was shooting arrows at a mushroom target behind him. Even for a fantasy game, i feel you can't aim behind you, you can't fire arrows behind you AND hit them all perfectly. maybe if it is speccable in the skill tree where the ranger magicly can aim in his back.. idk.
4. Skill tree & risk vs reward:
i dislike that you can spec everything. That will make the class more generic and gives it less identity.
a tank killer ranger will spec differently then a mage killer, different then AOE dmg ranger.
the skill tree should be big enough to not be able to spec everything. maybe speccing 70% off all options is reasonable?
Could work with a tier system
1
2
3
4
working with different requirements. for instance Tier 3: have 15 points in tier 2. could work in tier circles for the 'free-from' approach. Speccing everything would make it fair for everyone, true. but i still like the uniqueness, diversity in builds, and risk vs reward in speccing. if i chose this, then i will not have that. you could chose to do more burst dmg, but have less mobility etc..
5. dmg counters should pop immediatly, not with a delay
status effects should pop to. stunned, rooted, .. different color?
6. UI
the 'x' button to close a ui screen is pretty small. When the mouse is around that area, you probably want to close the screen.
Question:
Will there be a way so we can jump higher, further? adventure skills?
Will we be able to backflip/jump and air strike? Or while falling, use airstrke? probably not because there is no ground underneath to jump from. Still asking..
Amazing update. Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to everyone at intrepid.
and moved to that main-stream-thing:
I was so delited to see, I can concentrate on what i wanna skill without going through skill tree paths...
I have to say I am disappointed, does anyone have thoughts on that matter?.
Have been following this project for a couple of years but remained silent.
Amazing showcase this month. I could clearly see the progress comparing the previous state of Archer archetype.
What I liked:
- the overall concept of Archer. Obv haven't played it myself but from the video it seems the balance between mobility, cc and potential damage is quite right. I personally think giving too much escape skills to Archer quickly becomes toxic. There are Rogues for that.
- different marks, hunts and ammo is a good touch. That way, Archer gameplay would not be too linear and you won't be too predictable in pvp and could switch between max dps, dps+debuff and dps+buff in pve
- animation theme is pleasant and mark animal idea is superb visually.
some other thoughts:
- Color schemes. I don't know if I'm a minority in this, but I strongly feel that every class in MMORPGs should have a distinctive and limited color palette. 2 or 3 prime colors max. Archer right now already has green, blue, yellow and red. And I'm sure there are more. Headshot red color really feels out of place. Let's say Cleric has two prime colors. White and golden. Warrior - brown and red. Rogue - black and gray. And so on. And it may seem limited or rigid, but there are hundreds of shades of each color. That way each archetype would be distinctive not only in gameplay and sounds but also in visuals. (I understand that there are secondary classes. Which only cements my argument IMHO because with addition of colors from secondary classes every character would look like a Christmas firework)
- I think Archer archetype must have a skill of some kind of guaranteed hit. Let's say True shot - your next skill will be a guaranteed hit and critical strike. Archer usually has a very limited target hard cc skills with long cd and his life depends on actually making it connect. It is extremely crucial in pvp and sometimes in pve. Mages have tons of shields and cc in late game, Rogues have dodges and invis, Tanks are fat and sturdy, Summoners have pets to mitigate or share dmg and so on. Archers in mmos are usually dead as soon as they miss their prime skill or cleanse is on cd
My favorite classes are summoner and archer with animal companion. Can't wait to see the product of Archer+Summoner and Summoner+Archer.
Have a great holidays and I wish you a great inspiration in the upcoming year.
ps. sorry for any mistakes. my second language
I prefer the skill tree path system if it makes sense and the choices are impactful. I like the idea of mutually exclusive skills and branches, which is hard to do with completely free choice.
Q.How do you feel about the Ranger Archetype Update?
A. I really think its going in a good direcntion, it looks cool and fresh but it still feels like there are loose ends to tie up.
Q.What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype?
A.Well as a mage main I didn´t spect to select the range as second option but after watching the showcase I may end doing it, I see huge potential in the movility it has for pvp. As I said I may end playing it and that´s because I like how the terrain seems to influence the coombat system and this class with the movility, range, traps, etc... looks like can be a really cool experience.
Q.Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?
A.Alrady comented what im excited for with the sception on how will this class work with the rogue archetype, if its kind of a stealthy explorer with good 1v1 and outplay potential it me be my favourite class along mage. And a special mention with the holding mechanic added to the aoe hability that can make it more focused, I think that is very original and awesome.
My principals concers are aligned with a lot of the post i have seen from the comunity in this discussion:
- The animations have improved a lot and I like the effects but from my perspective the flashy ones has to be reserved when the ranger is combinated with other archetypes. For me they aren´t that outstanding as other people claim, with just little adjustements could be nice. For exaple for me the SNIPE animation is perfect, still flashy but its like the wind and the charge, that doesn´t seem too "magical", the headshot could just be the red arrow without the charge animation (until its combined as i said) and it would be fine for me to.
- The basic attacks are too much and too fast, specially when combined with the bonus attack speed makes fast fire looks like a long cast of autos and I don´t like the that feeling unless im using an empower autoattack skill. I think that reducing the number of arrows in the animation of the basic would improve it a lot.
- Also would like the animation of the arrows have at least two or 3 diffferent patterns so the pathing of them are not always the same, it may be more direct, or rigth to left and viceversa. It would be awesome.
- 4rd concern for me is about the skills. For me 3 ammo skills, 3 marks skills, and 3 hunts skill all of them being buffs feel reduntant and don´t take me wrong, I think that having access to that variety as a range is ok with this archetype, and you can only use 1 mark at the time so it´s like one button but i think that all of them will become a button that won´t feel good to press and will be macroed (if its possible) because to minmax this character it will take to much time and attention to press buttons that are not doing "anything" by itself they are just mandatory accesories that has to be care about instead of focusing on your rotation, positioning, enemies, etc... To avoid this, i would let hunts as they are, i dont see anything wrong on having different permanent buff skills, i would increase the ammo cast time, so finding the moment to use it taking adventage other skills, movement, etc... and being rewarded with a powerfull dmg window would be the fun part of the skill, also would make it last longer for balance purposes. Finally i would reduce the mark to only 1 button and the type of mark has to be selected at the talent tree. While the class still have access to a variety of marks, it will become the "burst" skill not one of the 3 same spells that i have to put in your keybinds and also will feel better to see how your mark selection pays out because you have to plan it beforehand, and i think all players love when their plans success.
- Final concern is about the cast of aoe skills not being visible to the other players, I think this is awesome but I miss some indication when the spell is already casted to see where will it land. I mention this for the pvp scenario, in battles where there will be spells landing everywhere with animations, would be nice to have clear indications to know when will the spells land (when they are already casted) so you can try to avoid and aoutplay them or maybe come up with an idea to use another way to reach your target.
Q.Are there similar archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!A. Well I mained bow/spear build in new world and it was fantastic, that build makes you a fast explorer with a hit and run playstyle and good 1v1 that feel so good to play. I know that this game won´t have a similar combat system but I can imagine a good mix between that role feeling and the ranger you showed us. Also would like something inspired in marskman hunter in wow retail with a long bow beeing a sniper and having a lot of danger at long distances but having little options on the short ones (this last point is what i miss in wow retail hunter archetype).
In general, very good stuff!! Excited to watch the other archetypes and how will they work when combined
Looks promising, I liked it.
A little unsure of the mobility of the class due to stationary skills.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype?
The unique skill ideas, which I didn't see in other games.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?
Airstrike is so cool, i love it.
Concern 1: Long term balancing of the class. A lot of people already asked to nerf it.
Would be nice to have a ranger class, which can survive a 1v1 scenario, if the attacker had the 1st move, and wouldn't die in 5 seconds stuck in a CC combo.
Concern 2: Multiple charging/stationary skills. Against melee the only thing the class can do is kiting.
Are there similar archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
Dislike: Archeage Archer. It was a fun, fast and mobile class. However it was nerfed so many times, now only 1 build is somewhat viable, and even that has no chance against the melee/mage meta builds 1v1.
Like: Guild Wars 2 Ranger. Build variety, and all are viable options.
Depending on your playstyle you can have a survival build, dealing decent damage, but with enough health and skills to survive if someone jumps you. Or you can be a glass cannon crit build, or a condition build etc... All are viable 1v1 against other classes.
This stream was a pleasure to watch and to see how far the game is coming along really brings good promise. As long as all the other classes receive the passion that the ranger has, there is no doubt AoC will be a killer in the franchise that people will be playing for a long time. Combat should be #1 priority as that is was is going to keep people coming back over and over, it's involved in almost every aspect of an MMO.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype?
Movement is always fun, not being restricted to standing still skills and gameplay feeling fluid is such a freeing experience. Rangers are squishy, burst heavy kind of archetypes and that seems to be what you're nailing here.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?
One thing I would like ot see changed based on what happened in the video is to increase the mob chain length. The worst thing to have happen is be in the middle of a fight and the mob just run back to where it spawns at. I remember in Lineage 2 having to run essentially across the whole zone to escape a mob and that was an exhillerating experience. Maybe a nice thing to do is based on the mobs threat level to you (mobs higher level to you would be more threatening, closer or below your level would be less threatening), they have a long chain distance or shorter based on that threat level. But overall, the lowest chain distance should be at least twice as far as it is now because big pulls are fun and people low to do big pulls if they can.
Are there similar archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
N/A
Thanks for reading and bringing it to the table as always!
1. How do you feel about the Ranger Archetype Update?
It honestly reminded me of the archer archetype in Archeage. I know that AoC gets some influence from the game and this update is very reminiscent of how the archer played. Snipe as an alpha strike ability is perfect and will definitely catch people off guard if mixed with a rogue stealth ability when you get your second archetype. The damage is quite insane when paired with mark of the bear. I'd be interested to see how much damage the combination of marks and abilities will do to different armor types. We already had a tank in this showcase and he was getting wrecked, what more would it be for casters and healers that wear cloth. We saw a bit of that but I'd like to see more. Scatter shot as an aoe ability is really smartly designed, I think giving the players some depth when using a skill will be good for other archetypes as well. The movement with disengage looked really fluid and easy to use. I like that you can climb on objects and immediately disengage when you want to. Watching the skills used in actual combat was a treat, the game is really starting to shape up with it's gameplay. Although I feel like the tank should have had more threat, either that or Steven should have waited for the mobs to group up. A larger pull radius would be better for grouping up mobs as well. Overall I feel good about the Ranger update.
2. What excites you about playing and interacting with the Ranger archetype?
Ranger or archer type classes aren't my style in MMOs but fighting against them will be interesting. Playing Mage vs a Ranger seems quite scary cause of their burst. I'm excited to know how the team balances that aspect of the game. As for having a Ranger on my own team, I feel like I can think of a lot of ways to synergies with their utility to take down packs of mobs or threats in pvp.
3. Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Ranger Archetype Update?
I saw there the Ranger was flinching when being hit by mobs, does that mean certain skills can be interrupted when being getting hit? Steven was able to combo the Tank down in 4-5 skills, just wondering if this is the intended damage output for actual pvp.
4. Are there similar archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
I've played wow for years and I dislike that you're stuck having a pet all the time to make up a lot of your dps. With Ranger in AoC i'm glad that the base Ranger doesn't come with a pet. Although I'm interested to see how Summoner will be designed and how it's augments will affect Ranger and other classes. Archer from Archeage was able to be combined with other defensive and utility archetypes, interested to see how AoC will expand on Archers filling other roles or acquiring other utility through augmentation.
what we've seen really makes you want to play it.
i loved what steven said, fun above all.
you've made the effort to open up the talent tree to show us the detail, you've explained the different combat postures the class will have.
for all that, thanks again.
i suspect you've also made changes to the classes we've already seen.
can't wait to see what you do with the rogue.
don't forget that your little alpha ones would love to have the opportunity to take part in testing, and are ready to sign any nda you want.
keep it up, you're holding the best mmo of all time.
happy holidays to all
Graveyard's Grin
Your bones dance to my rhythm
The ranger looks quite good! Between the last ranger showcase and this one, we have now seen two different types of bow, the short and long.
While I understand the bow & arrow fantasy of classic ranger, I do not think it is beyond the fantasy and the lore of this world to also have the technology for other ranged weapons such as Crossbows and even guns.
Perhaps there are plans for these which have yet to be revealed? As I don't have a crystal ball I would like to mention it here.
Between the other various long range weapons such as crossbow, there is a lot of room for skill and DPS variation, such as burst damage potential, or more status debuffing from certain kinds of ammunition or weapon type. Think tranquilizer types of ammunition, defense down ammunition, etc
When a gun is done correctly inside an RPG, yes it feels powerful but it also feels amazing to hear the shot go off, get the recoil, reload, etc.
4. Are there similar archetypes you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
To this day, I am still playing Final Fantasy XI. The Ranger is a heavy physical DPS in this game which can use bow, xbow, and gun. There is a support class called the Corsair which exclusively uses a gun for a ranged attack (the best weaponskill for corsair deals magic damage though) while also offering party support buffs.
I realize AoC will be much different and that is something to which I look forward. However it would be nice to see other ranged variations other than just a bow.