Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
It‘s a sub-fee MMO. It wants to bind me, why should it be a problem to play with alts?
The variety of races, classes and professions invites us players to play alts.
If Ashes is making a problem instead a chance out of this, its doing basic design fails.
Personally, Im looking forward playing warrior and rogue, with different races and different professions, just as example (did the same in WoW all over the years, later on all races and classe with lots of alts, but they were not maintained in the same way, ofc not).
And tbh I clearly expect that the second char will have a bit of an easier life, because the main can support a bit with glint/gold, items, materials, whatever. Up from more chars it will probably be to time intensive.
And, everything done in Alpha and Beta has no relevance, all this will be gone up from release.
Alright, so if you attempt to use the result of this poll as a proof, then it means you consider the results representative and valid.
Let's make some simple calculations then (you like calculations, don't you?)
And I hope you are aware of the difference between the arithmetic mean and weighed mean. Anyway, you can google it.
600 x 100 = 60,000
449 x 200 = 89,800
291 x 300 = 87,300
234 x 500 = 117,000
401 x 1000 = 401,000
60,000 + 89,800 + 87,300 + 117,000 + 401,000 = 755,100
Total number of voters:
600 + 449 + 291 + 234 + 401 = 1975
The weighed mean:
755,100 / 1975 = ~382 hours.
So on average, the voters would like to take a player to spend approximately 382 hours to reach the max level under condition of ...
I don't think I need to explain that leveling in those conditions will be significantly faster than leveling on launch, do I?
So thank you for bringing this up and proving my point once again.
P.S. Can't wait to see your made up excuses like "oh wait, no, this poll is not valid, I didn't mean it" or whatever else comes to your mind
Avada Kedavra
Jokes aside (or maybe not really jokes?) that's not the main reason
Player interdependency is an important part of game's vision and philosophy. That is a reason why, for example, there is a limit for artisan skills you can become a Grandmaster at, right? Right.
Under these circumstances, nothing stops players and guilds on making alt characters and powerleveling them to skip that element. Why bother to find someone when you can just do it yourself? Taking into account all the factors mentioned in another thread, that will contribute to a much faster leveling over time - those "225 hours" may end up being "125 hours" a couple of months after the launch.
Also, under these circumstances, nothing stops players and guilds on making alts in order to grind the same instanced boss 2-3-5 times per cooldown, while you will only have a chance to do it once.
Etc.
In WoW it was/is also not possible to have all professions on one char. Also, in early WoW, you leveled them all - manually. Different races, perhaps factions, for sure classes and professions. Its as old as MMOs are. Yes, not every char will be maintained at the same level, but thats no issue at all. Its an alt, its a char playing in breaks and natural cool down phases, perhaps not at prime time, at least not during the first month of the game.
We all hope so. If it's an MMO for decades, what's the issue with longer leveling as long as it's fun, rewarding and enjoyable?
It's not a question whether there be alt or not - it is inevaitable. Their quantity though is an important variable and if it ends up being too high, it may lead to certain unpleasant consequences
I don't recall them saying anything like that. Care to provide a reference?
Well, maybe you use them that way. I've seen the dark side of alts being easy to make and I don't want Ashes to face the consequences of that dark side.
Anyway, I don't mind being in a win-win situation.
If Intrepid cares to listen and implement certain changes - awesome, it will be good for the game, at least I think so.
If they don't - well, guess I'll have alts for artisan skills/PKing with no risk/dungeons/anything else I want or need. It's not the scenario I want, but if it goes that way, I will obviously take advantage of that.
P.S. @Zehlan cutie pie, I know you have already read my reply, it's a pity you failed so miserably and left in shame. I'm going to miss you, as obviously you won't come back to this thread, at least not within next couple of pages, until you get an impression that people forgot about it and/or won't go back to read it.
Not at all 382 is a far cry from what you are suggesting and Is not unreasonable with that about 76 days I think most people are aiming for 2-3 months but if you want to play math majority want under 200 hours or 2 to 1 want under 300 most popular the most important was 100 hours we can play math all day if you want you will still lose. Now if you add in the newer poll showing the majority wanting 225 which shows as the game progresses the trend is leaning toward shorter time. Now I will say that's probably not going to stay there, i betting +/- of 50 hours myself after we get a ways into alpha 2.
I noticed you ignored the other poll showing 45 days and that has everyone in the comments saying how 45 days is right about perfect didn't want to use that one because you couldn't manipulate the truth in anyway on that one I guess.
I will post it again so it doesn't get buried
Steven has already confirmed on stream that the average time to reach the maximum level will be 45 days playing 4-6 hours a day, do you think this time is adequate? if a player plays 12 hours/day can reach mas level in 2 weeks
My opinion is that this is a very short time, I have serious concerns about character development, the feeling of reward for leveling up, the feeling of progression, and whether or not it will be healthy for the overall game environment.
As a former lineage player i have the memory of low level groups formed to grind in Cruma Tower , low grade pvps, small fights almost all the time, my fear is the game is too easy and the leveling becomes obsolete, and the end of the monotonous game and very dependent on the events (siege and caravans).
Sorry about my poor grammar, i'm from Brasil.
Closed • 743 total votes
]413
45 days 4-6 hours, are good enough.
174
90 days 4-6 hours, I think something more challenging is more exciting and can bring more benefits to the game.
89
180 days 4-6hours, i want be rewarded for every mob killed and that i can also stand out through my level.
67
At least a year, i dont care about casuals.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/comments/nsvat5/about_time_do_reach_max_level/
I have asked this question before and got no answer asked here again and got no answer how come?
See and this is the honest and reasonable thing I think you have said yet I actually respect this statement. If you would of started this thread with I love long levelling I think there would of been a completely different vibe but you started it with everyone else has to change the way they play this game.
P.S. I have mild dyslexia so it can take time to write down stuff one post took me three hours to put together the other day it's worse when I have worked a long day and sometimes tbh your not worth responding to. Oh and yes I am a fucking cutie pie
I hope you didn't miss the part that those 382 hours are under condition where the world is fully developed, with metros, etc. Right? Because it that case, leveling on launch can easily take 500-600-700 hours. That would obviously be better than the current 225h.
Dude, you need to learn how to deal with numbers and how to interpret statistics properly. Seriously. I feel like I'm talking to someone who got kicked out of elementary school at the age of 37.
Are those mythical "mathematical victories" in the same room with you right now? Buckle up, you're going to get obliterated for the second time.
Oh, so now what people write in comments suddenly became relevant? Very interesting. The last time I pointed out to what people write in comments, you just ignored it. What a pathetic hypocrisy.
Alright, my sweet summer mathematical genius. I was delusional enough to assume that you managed to comperehend the meaning behind the numbers in my previous comments. Here we go again.
413 x 45 = 18,585
174 x 90 = 15,660
89 x 180 = 16,020
67 x 365 = 24,455
18,585 + 15.660 + 16.020 + 24.455 = 74.720
Total number of voters:
413 + 174 + 89 + 67 = 743
The weighed mean:
74.720 / 743 = ~100 days.
What's wrong with your face now, kid? Are you going to say now that the poll is rigged and math is wrong?
Avada Kedavra 2.0
That's irrelevant but I'll answer it anyway. I played Lineage 2 Classic - it was an official server with a subscription. No idea, why you need that information, but whatever.
If you actually read carefully my words that you quoted, you might end up realizing that I am suggesting something that is AGAINST my personal interests. Current leveling speed provides MORE opportunities for me, but I am fine with not having them, if it is good for the game itself. Understandable. If talking is easier for you than writing, feel free to drop me a line and we could schedule a 1v1 face-to-face debate, if by some miracle you are down. Good for you then
413 x 45 = 18,585
174 x 90 = 15,660
89 x 180 = 16,020
67 x 365 = 24,455
18,585 + 15.660 + 16.020 + 24.455 = 74.720
Total number of voters:
413 + 174 + 89 + 67 = 743
The weighed mean:
74.720 / 743 = ~100 days.
What's wrong with your face now, kid? Are you going to say now that the poll is rigged and math is wrong?
[/quote]
Not everyone gets a metal buddy the 413 will dictate the speed this isn't socialism. What it comes down to is they will go with majority which you like to avoid. This is a business they are not going to piss of the majority and have them leave and be left with a demographic half that size so you can play games with the numbers but in the end majority rules don't like then maybe this isn't your type of game.
I'd like to point out that in that poll...
173 + 89 + 67 = 330 players would like leveling to take at least 90 days
Which is...
330 / (413 + 173 + 89 + 67) x 100% = 44,4%
Not even mentioning that the weighed mean equals to ~100 days
P.S. As long as comments suddenly matter, go ahead and read the comments under the post on r/MMORPG: https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/1fy4h2i/can_a_grinding_mmo_survive_in_todays_market/
I’ve always loved switching between characters for a different play experience. Experimenting with different concepts and builds.
However, limiting citizenship to only one node among other policies makes it difficult if you want to play multiple characters based in separate locations. Understand they are trying to limit those who might abuse things, but it takes a good bit of the benefits of playing alts away.
Then you hit a wall. The hell leveles.it was so long, often felt 4 x longer then a standard level. Some people even stopped playing and that's when there was no options for MMOing. EQ was the only 3D world you could RP online with friends.
So think of the MMOs over the past 15 years. The high of getting sometimes 3-5 levels in an evening. Then they try Ashes at its current rate. Average gamer will take about a year to level everything you need for a rounded build. That's just one well rounded build. How many people do you really think will stick around if IS does what you are requesting? Say what, 350-450 hours.
For most people they are not following this game closely. Every level will feel like a hell level. They will start to calculate that it going to take 2-3 years for an average player to get one buold rounded out. Not knowing that you will be playing end game style game at every level. Thinking it going to take 3 years to join end game. How many players will we lose?
220hrs for main path and maybe 50-100 hours to round out for all the builds you want to play. Ashes needs people subbing to make money. They need to make a profit.
If myself a old school MMOer is saying and seems to be just not me. That your idea will not work, especially with the current market. What more can be said.
I watch your vids but I don't agree with everything you say. Why this bone is something you won't let go of. I have to ask. What is the need (what you really want) behind the need (wanting leveling to take much longer). What is the one thing above any other you want this more then anyone else?
You're correct, numerous alts isn't a playstyle they want to support, and that's on purpose.
For the same reason they're not going to allow character name-changes, alts are taxing to maintain and level to effectiveness. They want you to be forced to rely on other players, so self-sufficiency is made extremely difficult. They want players to spy on each other as a sort of strife generator/'gameplay' loop, bad for the game imo but that's what they want, so the level of alts can clue other into them being either 1) new 2) potentially a spy if they're 'too' knowledgeable about the game. It becomes too easy to crank out junker spy characters if leveling is too short, but too difficult to tell one from a genuine character if leveling is too long.
The 45 day range is a cushy spot that requires at least a few weeks to reach a spot of engaging with the game seriously (secondary archetype threshold), but isn't so restrictive that you couldn't make spies as a part of guild v guild conflict.
There are easy ways to prevent that like having someone post their character screen before they join the guild. I mean if someone wants to go through the length of having 2 accounts and double subbing then fair play to them. I’m pretty sure there are some games that also have rules like you can only have one account or no multi-boxing.
Worst thing is insider threat from people in the guild or alliance who aren’t happy that are maybe thinking of leaving or feeling left out. Those are the types of people who you need to watch out for that can be persuaded to spy or leak information. Also being strict with who can stream Zerg fights or even how they stream them like blocking out the map or putting a delay as not to give away your location or position.
For a long list of reasons I mentioned in this thread: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/60737/ashes-of-creation-must-dodge-this-bullet/p1
While you might consider some of them not that critical, combine all others and take a look at their total cumulative effect.
I think spying as a concept is stupid and won't pan out like Steven thinks because everything is run through discord anyway, but I'm just giving you part of their reasoning.
Crafting is the biggest thing they want to enforce player interaction and inter-reliance.
Yeah I don’t think there will be a mass amount of spy’s one or two might slip through the cracks in an alliance merger. However for a seasoned ZvZ & PvP guild that knows what they’re doing there’s a lot of ways you can check someone or make it difficult for them to join on an alt or limit their access to information via discord/comms.
I’m interest to see what open world scouting will be like and if people will station lookouts when doing PvX content like raids or world bosses.
I mean if someone wants to commit years of their life and pay $30 a month for the game at the same time fair play to them. Personally to be honest it seems like a lot of effort, but that’s why as a guild leader you never giveaway all your access to the guild treasury.
Played EvE ran a small alliance for years I had a gentleman in my personal corporation he ran 7 accounts at 15 a month maxed amount of characters I believe 8 per account can't remember for sure but he traded in information for information or in game money that was his whole game. He showed me half a dozen of his characters this included voice modulation for each toon sometimes he was an old british guy all the way down to a 15 year girl. I hope he was talking to me in his real voice but to be honest I don't know and the funniest part that's all he did in eve! he was a good guy maybe girl though lol. I hope this does not come to pass in this game because it was not fun dealing with spys took a little bit of the joy away dealing with that.
I'm an old stubborn man. I come from the days of camping a single item off a boss, spawn after spawn for 36 hr straight to get my jboots. I have played through many generations and the last few in general, don't have that mentallity. What your asking for is why Ubisoft is failing.
But, Flanker has only played Lineage II and New World.
These polls are irrelevant for several reasons.
Mainly because they are made by gamers rather than game devs and the people participating in them are mostly gamers with no game dev experience.
Also, it is highly likely that the participants in those polls are conflating “max Level” with Endgame.
Ashes already provides many more hours of Leveling besides just the 225 hour journey to Level 50 Adventurer, due to the numerous other progression paths Ashes offers.
And there is also plenty of other fun gameplay opportunities with new content that does not end when players reach Level 50 Adventurer.
Basically, Flanker’s argument is that he played Lineage 2 and loved it. Especially because it has long Leveling and, according to him, everyone gets a major dopamine hit when they finally complete activities after a very long time.
And he played New World and the 60 hour timespan to max character Level is not fun and causes tons of issues for NW Endgame.
Therefore, it is objectively true that it’s best for MMORPGs to have a Leveling speed to Level 50 Adventurer/Class that takes 500 - 1000 hours.
Also, when he translates 4 hours/day of gameplay to reach 225 hours = 1.5 months…
He disregards that the vast majority of MMORPG fans do not have 4 hours/day or 20+ hours per week to devote to playing video games.
And part of what that means is that when a player logs into an MMORPG for their 1-2 hour game session devoted to reaching the next milestone of the adventurer path, they are going to want to be able to see more progress on their XP bar than 1/10th of the 1/10th milestone marker on the bar.
Sure, if a typical game session is 16 hours, like Flanker says it is for him, you can see some decent progress on the way to 500+ hours.
Also, yes, if you’re playing 16 hours/day, and Nodes aren’t gatekeeping Primary Archetype progression Levels, and it’s a static MMORPG with an Endgame, 2 weeks to Endgame probably feels too fast.
And this is even more true for a game like NW, with 60 hours to Main Story Endgame, for someone who plays 16 hours/day, but wants to take 6 months of 16/day to reach Endgame.
Since I assume you are from a CIS region country, this information distortion you have done here only reinforces that notion. This kind of information distortion is common in that region.
You can't just take poll results and normalize them, then claim the result is valid. Proof that it just doesn't work this way can be found in the fact that both times you did this above, your result was right I the middle of the range with the fewest votes.
If I am right - or close to right - in regards to where you are from, I don't specifically blame you for this, as this kind of thing is what you would consider normal.
However, it is not normal.
What the point of bringing nationalities of forum members in the topic ? What's more, to highlight a character trait common to a nationality.
It's a vicious move.