Glorious Alpha Two Testers!

Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.

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Leveling Speed

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Comments

  • ZehlanZehlan Member, Alpha Two
    @Flanker Oh your on about the how to use mathematics for understanding polling data lmao. You think I sent that to credit my argument lol Any kid in kindergarten can figure basic polling data it's not hard except for you.

    You stalking me now too? Your starting to sound like your a little obsessed. I must say that's a little creepy but from these threads i am sure that rabbit hole goes a lot deeper than just creepy. lol
  • FlankerFlanker Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 14
    Zehlan wrote: »
    @Flanker Oh your on about the how to use mathematics for understanding polling data lmao. You think I sent that to credit my argument lol Any kid in kindergarten can figure basic polling data it's not hard except for you.

    3go1xq7cg1ph.png

    I don't think you sent that to prove your point - I know it for a fact. There are words "detailed clarification", right there. Extremely entertaining to see your lame excuses and backpedalling when you are cornered.

    And... So... every kid in kindergarden knows that, but then... how come you don't? You do realize that you make yourself look like a clown now, don't you? It just looks... so sad

    Zehlan wrote: »
    You stalking me now too? Your starting to sound like your a little obsessed. I must say that's a little creepy but from these threads i am sure that rabbit hole goes a lot deeper than just creepy. lol
    I'm calling out your bs and I don't mind making one click to open your profile to make sure that I'm right. Join the ranks of "victim card players" - you are not gonna be alone, your friend is already there waiting for you.
    Zehlan wrote: »
    I must say that's a little creepy but from these threads i am sure that rabbit hole goes a lot deeper than just creepy. lol
    If you are not used to deal with people who are one step ahead of you - get used to it. You are hilariously predictable.

    TL;DR - Your psychological profile and behavior pattern
    > Not being able to have a meaningful discussion
    > Waiting for someone to start talking against my point
    > Jumping in aggresively and becoming a part of hive mind
    > Hive mind destroyed - you are alone
    > Trying to put two words together but it doesn't work, cuz you can't
    > Get called out for your nonsense that can be debunked in 10 seconds
    > Cry and play the victim card along with more bs nonsense

    I probably wouldn't even want to talk to you publicly on a podcast anymore. With that mindset of yours - I'd literally be inside your head in 60 seconds which is not fun as I prefer worthy opponents when it comes to discussions/debates. As if you had balls for that anyway

    Checkmate
    n8ohfjz3mtqg.png
  • VarganVargan Member, Alpha Two
    Personally, I would prefer a slower level time. I think of Ashes as a game about commitment, where picking your main class has weight and becomes part of your identity.

    There are so many MMOs in which even casual players have a full stack of alts that can fulfill any role according to need, and everyone can do everything. That diminishes the importance of well thought out grouping.

    @Flanker As a L2 vet, I completely understand your perspective, and I believe you bring up strong and valid points. Well done handling all the vitriol thrown your way in this thread.
    Too bad, you lose! The correct sequence was blood - blood - blood.
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 14
    Flanker wrote: »
    Zehlan wrote: »
    @Flanker Oh your on about the how to use mathematics for understanding polling data lmao. You think I sent that to credit my argument lol Any kid in kindergarten can figure basic polling data it's not hard except for you.

    3go1xq7cg1ph.png

    I don't think you sent that to prove your point - I know it for a fact. There are words "detailed clarification", right there. Extremely entertaining to see your lame excuses and backpedalling when you are cornered.

    And... So... every kid in kindergarden knows that, but then... how come you don't? You do realize that you make yourself look like a clown now, don't you? It just looks... so sad

    Zehlan wrote: »
    You stalking me now too? Your starting to sound like your a little obsessed. I must say that's a little creepy but from these threads i am sure that rabbit hole goes a lot deeper than just creepy. lol
    I'm calling out your bs and I don't mind making one click to open your profile to make sure that I'm right. Join the ranks of "victim card players" - you are not gonna be alone, your friend is already there waiting for you.
    Zehlan wrote: »
    I must say that's a little creepy but from these threads i am sure that rabbit hole goes a lot deeper than just creepy. lol
    If you are not used to deal with people who are one step ahead of you - get used to it. You are hilariously predictable.

    TL;DR - Your psychological profile and behavior pattern
    > Not being able to have a meaningful discussion
    > Waiting for someone to start talking against my point
    > Jumping in aggresively and becoming a part of hive mind
    > Hive mind destroyed - you are alone
    > Trying to put two words together but it doesn't work, cuz you can't
    > Get called out for your nonsense that can be debunked in 10 seconds
    > Cry and play the victim card along with more bs nonsense

    I probably wouldn't even want to talk to you publicly on a podcast anymore. With that mindset of yours - I'd literally be inside your head in 60 seconds which is not fun as I prefer worthy opponents when it comes to discussions/debates. As if you had balls for that anyway

    Checkmate

    Checkmate? LOL Your been at this thread going for weeks and the best you got from Steven is he will take feedback from the A2 testers. My guess is you won't like the feedback the masses give. I know I won't. I like 220hrs for the main progression. My guess most will want it much shorter. I hope Steven sticks to his plan.
  • FlankerFlanker Member, Alpha Two
    nanfoodle wrote: »
    Checkmate?
    Dude, if you don't realize that it was me replying specifically to Zehlan and debunking his flawed so-called "logic", I recommend you to read the thread again, as you clearly miss the context. It has nothing to do with what we heard from Steven.
    nanfoodle wrote: »
    LOL Your been at this thread going for weeks and the best you got from Steven is he will take feedback from the A2 testers. My guess is you won't like the feedback the masses give. I know I won't. I like 220hrs for the main progression. My guess most will want it much shorter. I hope Steven sticks to his plan.

    I like it when people hear what they want to hear instead of what they've been told.

    This is what we've heard and that's the brief conclusions we can make at this point. Obviously, the end result will also depend on testing.

    Flanker wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Looks about on par with what he's gone with before, about 2 months playing 5-6 hours per day. Funny to hear there's push for it to be shorter than that within the dev team itself
    I mean, what he said is:
    > First ~10-15 levels will be relatively fast (exact number is not known yet), so that people don't suffer at the start ;
    > Reaching level 25 will roughly take 100 hours and the XP curve is not gonna be linear.
    > He prefers it to be in more of a grindy side of things.

    Thoughts:
    > If first ~10-15 levels are fast, 1-25 "roughly takes 100 hours" and XP curve is not linear, I'd actually be surprised to find out that it all somehow magically adds up to ~225 hours, especially taking into account him saying "he prefers it to be somewhat grindy".
    > A curve change from ~10-25/15-25 is clearly not gonna get back to linear after level 25. So if 1-25 takes ~100 hours, I probably wouldn't expect 25-50 to be 125-150 hours. Probably something close to, at least 300h for the whole 1-50.
    > If it's the case, then it's a bit better obviously, but in general - doesn't change the situation dramatically. A few extra weeks or a month for an average player won't really make that huge of a difference in MMO.
    > But if it's the case, still better than nothing
    n8ohfjz3mtqg.png
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Ooo I read it.
  • FlankerFlanker Member, Alpha Two
    nanfoodle wrote: »
    Ooo I read it.
    Mhm xD
    n8ohfjz3mtqg.png
  • ZehlanZehlan Member, Alpha Two
    Flanker wrote: »
    Zehlan wrote: »
    @Flanker Oh your on about the how to use mathematics for understanding polling data lmao. You think I sent that to credit my argument lol Any kid in kindergarten can figure basic polling data it's not hard except for you.

    3go1xq7cg1ph.png

    I don't think you sent that to prove your point - I know it for a fact. There are words "detailed clarification", right there. Extremely entertaining to see your lame excuses and backpedalling when you are cornered.

    And... So... every kid in kindergarden knows that, but then... how come you don't? You do realize that you make yourself look like a clown now, don't you? It just looks... so sad

    Zehlan wrote: »
    You stalking me now too? Your starting to sound like your a little obsessed. I must say that's a little creepy but from these threads i am sure that rabbit hole goes a lot deeper than just creepy. lol
    I'm calling out your bs and I don't mind making one click to open your profile to make sure that I'm right. Join the ranks of "victim card players" - you are not gonna be alone, your friend is already there waiting for you.
    Zehlan wrote: »
    I must say that's a little creepy but from these threads i am sure that rabbit hole goes a lot deeper than just creepy. lol
    If you are not used to deal with people who are one step ahead of you - get used to it. You are hilariously predictable.

    TL;DR - Your psychological profile and behavior pattern
    > Not being able to have a meaningful discussion
    > Waiting for someone to start talking against my point
    > Jumping in aggresively and becoming a part of hive mind
    > Hive mind destroyed - you are alone
    > Trying to put two words together but it doesn't work, cuz you can't
    > Get called out for your nonsense that can be debunked in 10 seconds
    > Cry and play the victim card along with more bs nonsense

    I probably wouldn't even want to talk to you publicly on a podcast anymore. With that mindset of yours - I'd literally be inside your head in 60 seconds which is not fun as I prefer worthy opponents when it comes to discussions/debates. As if you had balls for that anyway

    Checkmate

    I am literally living imside your head rent free aren't I! Wow I will stop now I should know better than to tease someone who is obviously mentally ill.

    P.s. Talked to jesus the other day and he said he had no clue on how to walk on water until you showed him. Amazing, just amazing, one of a kind a special boy what would the world do without you lol Ok now I will stop, maybe. I do like free rent!
  • FlankerFlanker Member, Alpha Two
    Zehlan wrote: »
    I am literally living imside your head rent free aren't I! Wow I will stop now I should know better than to tease someone who is obviously mentally ill.
    "No, you!" mentality. Truly impressive. Please don't give up, that's how you prove your point
    n8ohfjz3mtqg.png
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 15
    Flanker wrote: »
    I mean, what he said is:
    > First ~10-15 levels will be relatively fast (exact number is not known yet), so that people don't suffer at the start ;
    > Reaching level 25 will roughly take 100 hours and the XP curve is not gonna be linear.
    > He prefers it to be in more of a grindy side of things.
    We all already understood that the moment we learned years ago that it's intended to be 225 hours to Level 50 Adventurer. That is not new info.
    That's the way Leveling in RPGs work traditionally work: Not linear and the ealier Levels are quicker to reach than the final Levels.

    Flanker wrote: »
    If it's the case, then it's a bit better obviously, but in general - doesn't change the situation dramatically. A few extra weeks or a month for an average player won't really make that huge of a difference in MMO.
    A few months makes a dramatic difference to the time it takes to reach the next Level during the journey to Level 50 - and, more importantly, to reach the signature abilities, skills and stats that are associated with the Primary Archetype.
    It especially is an issue for players who only have 2 hour play sessions rather than 16 hour pay sessions - because they are still going to want to see a reasonable increase on the XP progress bar for the time they have spent focused on progressing in their Primary Archetype each game session.

    In EQ, I'm going to want my Druid to get Spirit of The Wind. And that can't just arbitrarily take twice as long as it should just because someone wants it to take longer to reach "Endgame".
    In WoW, I'm going to want my Druid to get Cat Form and then Flight Form - and that can't just arbitrarily take twice as long as it should just because someone wants it to take longer to reach "Endgame".
    In Ashes, if I want it to take weeks or months longer to reach max Level Adventurer, I can choose to do so by focusing on other fun progression paths or I can choose to continue Leveling after max Level Adventurer by Leveling those other progression paths.
    In Ashes, there is no good reason to systemically prolong Leveling in the Adventurer path past 225 hours.
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 15
    Loved Narc's response when he found out 100hr to get to 25. I'm sure he and his many, many followers will be a nice addition to this thread. We gonna have to back Steven up on this one. 220hrs is worth what it does to a game like this.

    https://youtu.be/dgn6tjkkMQc?si=WUhRd38R_yqP22Yw
  • FlankerFlanker Member, Alpha Two
    nanfoodle wrote: »
    Loved Narc's response when he found out 100hr to get to 25. I'm sure he and his many, many followers will be a nice addition to this thread. We gonna have to back Steven up on this one. 220hrs is worth what it does to a game like this.
    I don't think it had anything to do with the game post-launch, as he was talking about those 100 hours in the context of Alpha 2, pointing out that it may be a lot, taking into account the fact that during phase 1 we will only have 3 days/week to play. That, however, can be easily fixed by adjusting XP rates and/or giving some XP boosts to players, if Intrepid wants them to test some level 25 content specifically
    n8ohfjz3mtqg.png
  • AlmostDeadAlmostDead Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 15
    Flanker you have way more stamina than I could have imagined.

    Persistent AF. Wow. Actually impressive tbh.

    But I'm still not counting out Dygz. Dude is legendary.

    Intrepid is going to need to hire a full time employee to parse this thread (and the sister thread). I'm not reading it, that's for sure.
  • AszkalonAszkalon Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 16
    People who think they want the Fifty Levels of the released, finished Game - levelled up as fast as for Example they can level now in the current Days of Worst of Warcraft,


    don't seem to realise how much Depth and Weight they would take away from Verra and their own Game Experience.


    Believe me, Guys. Slower is more sometimes. We are not running a Marathon. We are venturing into one of the newest and probably last, great Journeys of our MMO Lifetime.
    a50whcz343yn.png
    ✓ Occasional Roleplayer
    ✓ Guild is " Balderag's Garde " for now. (German)
  • GodbrithilGodbrithil Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Hero of the People, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Personally, I’m a big fan of long and drawn-out leveling phases. I want to feel that I’ve achieved a lot and invested just as much to reach that level – my character is developing, not just getting a flyer that says, “Congrats, you’re 50 now.” Most people don’t even get a real sense of their class, its combat mechanics, rotation, and skills if you’re gaining 5 levels per quest with the push of a button.

    In many games nowadays, leveling is seen as a burden and is just used as a means to stretch out the content. But if it’s well integrated, as Steven seems to have in mind, you can tie the content directly to the level, which takes things to another level. This way, old content doesn't get lost either, because it still retains its relevance.
    In my opinion, it could even be a bit slower.
    phoenX_Lead.png
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Aszkalon wrote: »
    People who think they want the Fifty Levels of the released, finished Game - levelled up as fast as for Example they can level now in the current Days of Worst of Warcraft,


    don't seem to realise how much Depth and Weight they would take away from Verra and their own Game Experience.


    Believe me, Guys. Slower is more sometimes. We are not running a Marathon. We are venturing into one of the newest and probably last, great Journeys of our MMO Lifetime.

    Good thing there isn't anyone like that in this thread, considering the leveling time in WoW.
    ♪ One Gummy Fish, two Gummy Fish, Red Gummy Fish, Blue Gummy Fish
  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Aszkalon wrote: »
    People who think they want the Fifty Levels of the released, finished Game - levelled up as fast as for Example they can level now in the current Days of Worst of Warcraft,


    don't seem to realise how much Depth and Weight they would take away from Verra and their own Game Experience.


    Believe me, Guys. Slower is more sometimes. We are not running a Marathon. We are venturing into one of the newest and probably last, great Journeys of our MMO Lifetime.

    225 hours to adventure level 50, aka 45 days, for a long playtime, every-day player is in fact slow leveling, and most people are pretty happy about it staying in that ballpark give or take a week or two depending on how dedicated you are to adventuring progress specifically.

    Extending the leveling process only serves to make it more difficult for players to enter the game after launch, because Ashes is an open world PvP game where being ten levels down will make or break your competitiveness, and if you're not competitive, you'll have difficulty accessing content that you need in order to gain proper exp and levels.
  • FlankerFlanker Member, Alpha Two
    Caeryl wrote: »
    225 hours to adventure level 50, aka 45 days, for a long playtime, every-day player is in fact slow leveling, and most people are pretty happy about it staying in that ballpark give or take a week or two depending on how dedicated you are to adventuring progress specifically.
    You consider it "slow" because your frame of reference is based on modern MMOs where leveling is more of a formality, than the actual journey.
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Extending the leveling process only serves to make it more difficult for players to enter the game after launch, because Ashes is an open world PvP game where being ten levels down will make or break your competitiveness, and if you're not competitive, you'll have difficulty accessing content that you need in order to gain proper exp and levels.
    > If you think that someone who joined the game 3 months after the launch will be able to compete against players who played since launched, consider thinking about it again.
    > There will be plenty of factors that will contribute to much faster leveling of a new player after launch. They are #2 and #3 in the first post of this thread: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/60737/ashes-of-creation-must-dodge-this-bullet/p1 - technically, you can also add #9 in terms of more taverns with rested XP buff available to new players.
    > This point, despite being somewhat valid technically, absolutely does not outweigh the points #1, #4, #5, #6, #7 and #8 in the thread above. Not even mentioning the effect that longer leveling has on player's retention and longevity.
    n8ohfjz3mtqg.png
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