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Resting after a Battle/Fight.
Kutsuumugen
Member
Hello,
I often try to watch the Devstreams for AoC but don't get to involed or look too deeply as I don't want to spoil to much of the game for myself and just want to look forward to playing it.
However mostly seen in the recent Devstream on Feb 29th I noticed something that rather puts me off and would like some more information and to just give my feedback on, as I can't seem to find any recent information or questions/answers regarding it.
Question: After a big fight or any fight/battle to where your Health/Mana have dropped below say 30% you are now at a point where you need to "sit" and just wait for your Health/Mana to be restored, is this going to be how it is going forward and on release?
I feel this is an old school mechanic and just doesn't fit AoC or many MMORPGs to this day and it's an outdated mechanic.
This is something I saw when I first played Aion Online after it's release and after a single fight/battle of 1-2 mobs I would sit down for 5-10 minutes (everytime) to restore my Health/Mana as Potions were not easy to obtain.
The issue is that I don't see Consumables being used in a fitting way or seem to be a 1 time thing and that's it.
I just don't see the point of this "sitting down" to restore oneself an ideal or fun mechanic.
Example: I just finished a battle/fight and now below 30% Health/Mana now comes along another player and kills me.
Doesn't sound very fun for either side nor does the idea to sit and wait for 5 minutes staring at my screen doing nothing.
I often try to watch the Devstreams for AoC but don't get to involed or look too deeply as I don't want to spoil to much of the game for myself and just want to look forward to playing it.
However mostly seen in the recent Devstream on Feb 29th I noticed something that rather puts me off and would like some more information and to just give my feedback on, as I can't seem to find any recent information or questions/answers regarding it.
Question: After a big fight or any fight/battle to where your Health/Mana have dropped below say 30% you are now at a point where you need to "sit" and just wait for your Health/Mana to be restored, is this going to be how it is going forward and on release?
I feel this is an old school mechanic and just doesn't fit AoC or many MMORPGs to this day and it's an outdated mechanic.
This is something I saw when I first played Aion Online after it's release and after a single fight/battle of 1-2 mobs I would sit down for 5-10 minutes (everytime) to restore my Health/Mana as Potions were not easy to obtain.
The issue is that I don't see Consumables being used in a fitting way or seem to be a 1 time thing and that's it.
I just don't see the point of this "sitting down" to restore oneself an ideal or fun mechanic.
Example: I just finished a battle/fight and now below 30% Health/Mana now comes along another player and kills me.
Doesn't sound very fun for either side nor does the idea to sit and wait for 5 minutes staring at my screen doing nothing.
1
Comments
Everything you're seeing in the livestreams is an example of where they are currently, not where they're ending up.
Ah yes I am aware of all that thanks.
I just wanted to know if this in particular was something they mentioned they were keeping as I'm sure something like this was mentioned 1-2 years ago.
Though as you said if this is just a placeholder of sorts then that is fine.
But just wanted to ask as this is something of a turn off for me, everything else I've seen I love.
balance isnt present on the devs streams....damage, health, regen, etc. needs to be balanced and fine tuned, so ignore it during the monthly streams.
where is your evidence for that? there are old school mmorpg where you can regen fast after a fight some others allow you to use easy to et potions and consumables and go back to full and some others require you to sit down and heal. also, if this is really an old school mechanic, and aoc is trying to emulate those old school mmorpg with old school mechanics, then this mechanic actually fits aoc...
i dont remember having to sit that often in aion. but i agree, having to sit 5 mins after fighting 30 seconds is boring...but i havent seen a game like that yet (i think eq was like that, but thats it). also, aoc is more party oriented. im sure if you try to solo places imed at partis, you will have to sit more often and you wont have that problem if you try to solo places aimed at solo players.
what is a fitting way? spamming them? pls no, then pvp becomes a battle of you brought more potions, not who is better, unless they cant be used during combat.
thats the nature of the game. you can also use that on your favor to kill a stronger opponent. or you could also just get attacked while fighting mobs...so whats the difference? people could simply just wait until you are fighting mobs to try and kill you.
That said, I am fine with needing to sit. If you are better at conserving your mana and better at avoiding damage, then you won't need to sit. But if you like to fight hard mobs and live on the edge (as Steven seems to do), then sitting is the price you pay for your gameplay choices.
I like it.
If you run, you should not heal unless you use potions or you have a healer.
Players who try to kill you, should not see your health bar filling in fast.
Also okay with consumables/buffs offsetting it.
And same applies to mob farming as well, which would also control how fast those mobs get farmed.
If Ashes decides to make respawn timers longer and make us run around - to me that'd be just as boring as sitting is to you. We're both wasting our time between mob killing, it's just different types of wastage.
This is kinda why I dislike majority of quests as well. Just pointless running around the place. And this is exactly why I prefer mob grind in a singular location. You have a goal, you have a place where that goal can be achieved, others with the same goal have the same place - you have yourself a pvx friction situation where you gotta win to progress.
IMO resting is a good mechanic but it has to be balanced realy good so that it doesnt get too boring, like with the example of 5-10 min after every fight
Sounds like you want a korean grinding mmorpg. I can say most western people do not want these types of things.
AoC vibes with people because of the exploration part as well, there will be plenty of reason to travel across the area and farm different locations for multiple reasons.
I don't see how you compare sitting and not moving is the same as ruining around a world that should be dynamic enough to make that experience of exploring even better.
Because if I want to explore - that's my goal and I can do that. If I want to farm something - I'd prefer if I could do that in one place. These are 2 different goals, which go against each other, unless you're fine with wasting your time not doing one or the other.
Anti-pvpers like to bring up the argument of "pvp prevents me from doing what I enjoy, because I don't enjoy pvp". To me, having "exploration" (not really, because it's just running) and mob farming both in one activity is the same as having pvp and pve to anti-pvpers - it's bad counterintuitive design.
And on the topic of westerners not like this, isn't instanced dungeons literally the same shit? Or are people so simpleminded that moving around a few rooms of a dungeon is "travelling enough" to not seem like farming the same place? Because to me grinding an instanced dungeon is the same as sitting in one room, and iirc even in WoW classic the optimal thing to do was to simply run the same dungeon over and over, if you wanted to progress optimally. And what is WoW classic if not the westernest mmo out there.
The more important thing to me would be to see a way to speed up CD timers outside of combat with a similar mechanic. Nothing is less fun than winning a pvp engagement only to lose the next one because 3,5, 10, or even 30min CDs arent available. Make it take time to recover, but not make me want to dodge all combat (or more likely log out) until my CDs are ready.
In games where mobs are in packs (BDO, Onigiri, Neverwinter sort of) and the 'skill' is to arrange the pack and beat them all, I don't care about resting, because during that time, you're not usually doing anything. You're intended to 'defeat them all at the same time' and having 3 or more on you isn't an 'I'm in danger' situation, so you're not really thinking about how to avoid it.
In games where mobs are intended to be fought 1-2 at a time and adding another single mob by any form of aggro, is actually dangerous, then it depends on if the game is easy. If you can 'avoid respawned mobs' easily due to slow respawns or easy hiding places, I also don't care about resting, it's still 'not doing anything'.
If you have large roaming, and overlapping mob aggro ranges, and random 'quiet times' (what I'm used to), then standing still is fine, sitting is also fine. Because during that time, you are strategizing a bit, or at least, someone is. It's not that while people are 'talking' or whatever, that they are just 'waiting to play the game'. Watching the enemy movement, planning the flow, is playing the game.
This is actually 'more' true with dungeon-pathing gameplay. If you always have enough power to just attack the next mob, then it's also likely that the optimal fighting styles (even for exp gain) will involve just running and gunning your way through and learning 'safe spots to leash mobs to when you mess up.
So, in the old Alpha-1 design, I didn't mind stopping (but didn't need to sit), and for the type of thing we've seen in recent showcases, I don't want to have to stop.
This isn't very nuanced either, for me. If I don't run out of MP because 'I don't need to heal', or 'I don't need to use as many abilities', then I'm just pattern-matching. I'm not 'playing the game' because I'm doing much less of everything.and the game is rewarding me more (a lot of the time in non FFXI/TL games). If I don't run out entirely but have something 'engaging' to do, it's almost always just non-adaptive rotations.
Optimally for me, I need to be running out of mana, needing to stop, and the game's design is giving me something to think about that can be considered while I have stopped, a 'puzzle' in front of, or around me, to look at. I don't think this is very hard to do, I probably just happened to not see any sign of it lately, too many 'obvious and clear chokepoints and stop points' in the areas the recent showcases have been using, I guess.
However if the area/leash design philosophy stays the same (regardless of the supposed 'difficulty') I don't want to have to sit in Ashes, but I also wouldn't want to be fighting mobs in Ashes, so I think my feedback on that could be disregarded.
• Mana/energy management IN combat adds something interesting, neccesary and challenging.
• Mana/energy management OUT of combat is booring, annoying and unneccesary.
I am against a system that is going to have me end up in a state of just standing around looking dumb, not able to do anything except waiting.
I am NOT against some sort of mana management in combat. Having to use abilities, buffs from friends or potions etc are completely fine.
Im going to point out the part im talking about.
The commission system shown literally makes you move over the map...
On the point of you seeing him sittings to regen mana and hp he is actually rping and having fun which is fine. You cant' use that as a point all western gamers want that....
You are missing the point, yes instanced dungeons is better pve than a korean grinding game where you are fighting brain dead mobs that you can beat with your eyes closed. Even if you ran the dungeon a ton of times atleast there would be some challenge in it compared to mobs that do nothing but chase and attack you.
The reason people play this korean games is not for PvE, it is for PvP.
You don't realize but half the time you are actually advocating for bad style gameplay to try to have a linage clone. There is already one out there though called T&L and even they moved away from some elements of L2.
Edit*
Again i've done resting before in mmorpgs people advocating for resting constantly like the post about saying resting every 2-3 min for 30 seconds is absolutely ridiculous.
There is much better ways to adjust things to make players more mindful like higher ability cooldowns, positioning through the entire area with roaming mobs, planning required for challenges ahead, and other dangers. That might have you organically avoid combat for some element of time rather than forced constant long resting.
Effectively making good design that can create pauses rather than forced heavy pauses.
https://youtube.com/@TheHiddenDaggerInn
Its not good lol, I do advocate for what i prefer, but I also consider other elements and what people want and give reason to it. Saying you want people to sit down after every few min for an extended period for no reason does not add anything to the game, nor does it even have anything to do with the amount of mana to spend in terms of balance with gameplay as you are in combat. If you run out of mana in combat that has no influence of resting outside of combat, its just dead end added time. Nor does resting = any form of added difficulty.
There is no resource management involved sitting outside of combat doing nothing and waiting...
You aren't in combat when you are not fighting there is no resource management involved. Combat and non combat are two different things.
Trying to suggest there is resource management while you literarily are doing nothing is absolutely silly.