I much prefer the way they did it in L2 where rez scrolls got you up with full experience loss. But Clerics, as they advanced, could give you rezzes with more and more recovered experience until a Cardinal could give you a 100% resurrection (no experience loss). There weren't very many who could do that on a server, kinda made you popular if you could.
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MorashtakMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
- Versatility of the food buffs. I like the idea of people having a "well fed" buff...
- Economy. Naturally more gold sinks is better for moving money around the economy...
- Inventory space ...will determine how much food you need to carry, ...
I think that I don't mind resting for regen as long as it doesn't interfere with the gameplay too much. And I suppose food serving its purpose can diminish that downtime.
Yep. Going to fully expect and accept a system very similar to this - Various levels of food buffs that reduce out-of-combat downtime, increasing in cost as useable-by-#level increases and stackable (though the last item could start at 20/stack at low level, decreasing to 5/stack at highest levels).
Am not a fan of "/sit" either - Just allow regen to start ticking five seconds after leaving combat. Standing still could allow 20% more ticks/second.
I also think the sitting aspect is important. If you are trying to run away from a group that MAY try to engage on you, you shouldn't be healing to full just by running away and out of combat.
A big part of this game is the strategy around player movement and player location. Sitting to rest adds to this game design.
@hleV if you disengage a fight you are not kiting, you are fleeing. And if you are talking about a 1vs1 why would you be against someone that fled and came back later? When you both are 100% HP.
@Xeeg Why are you against regening quick out of combat? I genuinly don't understand what you mean. If you ran away AKA succesfully fled, why do you need a period of sitting before engaging again?
Just trying to understand the other side of the argument more in detail.
Just trying to understand the other side of the argument more in detail.
My main question for this context would be "what constitutes 'combat'?" Is it a stance of sorts? Is it a "you have made an attack of any kind within the past X time"? Is it "you've received dmg within the past X time"?
Cause depending on what it is, the victim turning around right after they "exit combat and regen super fast" might now have the advantage over the initial attacker, in terms of resources.
Of course it could be argued that the attacker had the upper hand at the start, but I'd say that this is already addressed in the design choice of "greens can't be CCed". I see that design choice as the direct counter to the attacker having an advantage, because depending on the kind of CCs we'll have - the victim might have a CC that allows them to dish out way more dmg than the attacker did in their first strike, but w/o getting any dmg in the meantime.
So, in other words, requiring at least some buffer between the combat exit and regening up to full would level up the playing field.
p.s. if combat is also linked to being flagged, then the victim would have even more of an advantage.
Running away and regenning fast would not be good while being mobile as a default for all players. Makes the gameplay people don't want pretty much and why they are talking about forcing you to sit.
@Xeeg Why are you against regening quick out of combat? I genuinly don't understand what you mean. If you ran away AKA succesfully fled, why do you need a period of sitting before engaging again?
I'm not against it for many kinds of games, but for this game i think quick healing out of combat ruins some of the minute to minute game play strategy. I'm sure some characters will be more mobile than others, so simply "fleeing" is not necessarily the end of the story. What about the next pack of mobs you run into, or other players? Being aware of your current HPs and requirements to either sit, consume items, or find a healer is an important part of the strategy in picking fights and player placement.
Another aspect goes to balancing out exp rates with group comps that include healers and ones that don't. Healers lose out on exp rate/hr by spending time healing rather than damaging enemies. If non healers have to spend time "resting" after the fight, they balance out some of the target to target kill times. Hey, maybe the healer can actually help out on DPS/CC during the fight, only healing if necessary, and then topping up everyone after the fight. That whole idea goes out the window with fast healing out of combat.
Again, there are games and systems where resting to full doesn't fit the game and is just useless downtime that frustrates players. In this game, I think it is an important strategic part of the gameplay.
@NiKr
I actually don't think being in combat and what combat means matters all that much in a 1vs1 pvp context.
This game is supposed to have rock paper scissors type of classes. If I play as a range rogue attacking a tank I expect to be the rock to his scissor and he is not going to be able to run away and out of combat, regening quick.
If it is a pve encounter and I run out of combat to regen up because I can't stay in combat. I think thats completely fine since you would still loose efficency by not attacking a mob because you fled. I don't think you would have to wait more that 10-20 seconds for HP and mana to fully restore to engage again, after you exited combat. It's still worse than with friends.
So in conclusion I think for a pvp encounter. Don't let them get away. This MMO is not balanced for 1vs1 anyways. And for let's say 8 vs 8 scenario I have a hard time seeing "kite and heal" be any useful or viable strategy.
For pve encounter. If you play back and forth fleeing out of combat and in again it's going to be inefficent and you would be better with a healer friend.
@Xeeg Okey, so you fancy a little bit more time being on your toes after you got low and need to regen out in the wild? I can understand that point of view at the same time I can see that being frustrating if someone came by middle into your regen and got an easy kill because you were low from a mob encounter earlier.
I feel like I would look over my shoulder every single time I engaged a mob in that case, but I can see pros and cons with that.
Two Questions to both (and others). 1 How long after leaving combat should you be back to full HP/mana?
Me personally think about 10-20 seconds without having to sit or do anything else than waiting.
2 Do you think mana should be a limiting factor how long you could stay in combat? Even if you do everything you can to fill up.
1 How long after leaving combat should you be back to full HP/mana?
Depends on the class and build. I'd say 30 seconds is the upper limit on classes with shittiest mana regen builds. Sitting down should get that down to ~20-25s.
2 Do you think mana should be a limiting factor how long you could stay in combat? Even if you do everything you can to fill up.
Basic attacks shouldn't consume mana imo, so you can still contribute at least smth to the fight, but this would have to be properly balanced considering all the passives and triggers and all that shit.
1 How long after leaving combat should you be back to full HP/mana?
Depends on the class and build. I'd say 30 seconds is the upper limit on classes with shittiest mana regen builds. Sitting down should get that down to ~20-25s.
@Orym
Personally, I would think that natural hp/mana regen should be very slow without items or spells. Like 3-5mins to regen 100%. Maybe .3% hp/mana per second.
30s rest for 100%, or something like 3% hp/mana per second, seems like a good spot.
The devs will find the exact spots through testing/balancing. It really depends on the interaction with their healing system in general.
2~2.5% health per second sitting (I'm used to this ramping up the longer you sit, and quite a lot, so that 'recovering 80% health' isn't even twice as long as recovering 30%, sometimes), 0.4% standing. This is normally less than 30 seconds, therefore.
No universal passives for changing this (these are just noob traps or wastes, and nearly never anything in between). Food and gear only. And no 'Bards have an ability that changes this'. I like when Bards or Mages can restore Mana, but not 'out of combat restoration', and certainly not 'improve the natural out-of-combat restoration'. Too limiting for perceptions of grouping.
30 seconds seems too low and abusable, and 5 mins seems too long.
id say something like 2 mins every 10 mins of non stop combat if you are soloing (this also allows you to rest your hands and stand up etc hahaha).
i also like sit baiting. if i know someone wants to kill me and is waiting for me to sit down to start attacking me (maybe because they think im much stronger) i will bait them after killing a couple of mobs, then kill them when they flag cant do this with instant or almost instant regen out of combat but what you can do is polymorph the enemy then go back to full health and mana during a fight ewwwww.
Here is my post about downtime in general but most of it applies to health and mana regeneration. TLDR is that health and mana regen are good balance knobs for playing safe Vs risky aoe pulling. If you want both gameplay variants to exist you cannot have near instant regeneration. Most times a player is killed in the world by mobs is by attrition because players are expected to kill mobs. If you always fight at full resources the game is solved, you will always win. It becomes old fast.
30 seconds seems too low and abusable, and 5 mins seems too long.
Well it could be abusable depending on how they implement it. I saw another comment about resting rate ramp up time. They could also do something like a 2s animation to rest/standup where your character cant use abilities.
As for the 5mins, I meant that for base rate regen, not sitting down to rest or buffs or spells or anything. In combat base regen rate.
Another thing to take into account is general character balance for solo leveling/grinding. If a character chooses a build/style which doesn't need to rest, maybe they kill the mobs slower than ones that burn alot of hps or mana, kill quickly, but need to rest. This is going to take a lot of balance passes. However, they can set the anchor to 30s rest rate and then balance around that instead.
If they are going to stay with the resting idea, they should have a variety of activities (crafting, cooking, making potions, etc.) that are usable while resting. This way we can synergize our resting time with other things that we can be doing while out in the field. A bonus to crafting while in the field is that only materials drop on death, so if we can craft while gathering we limit our exposure to losing mats.
30 seconds seems too low and abusable, and 5 mins seems too long.
Well it could be abusable depending on how they implement it. I saw another comment about resting rate ramp up time. They could also do something like a 2s animation to rest/standup where your character cant use abilities.
As for the 5mins, I meant that for base rate regen, not sitting down to rest or buffs or spells or anything. In combat base regen rate.
Another thing to take into account is general character balance for solo leveling/grinding. If a character chooses a build/style which doesn't need to rest, maybe they kill the mobs slower than ones that burn alot of hps or mana, kill quickly, but need to rest. This is going to take a lot of balance passes. However, they can set the anchor to 30s rest rate and then balance around that instead.
not using skils during standing up or sitting down animations is fine. but i disagree with the ramping up mechanic. what if you have to sit down then after a few seconds you have to stand up to fight a mob that spawned nearby, or maybe a player ied near you and the mob decided to attack you, or simply someone tried to pvp you. sometimes you have to afk for only a few seconds then you sit down to regen. or maybe even during a boss fight, the supports will heal then sit down to regen when no one needs heals or buffs. not being able to regen well or at full capacity for several seconds when you sit down can really messes up everything i mentioned above.
After reading your post @Lashing and everyone else I am exited to see if I can enjoy a different system than what I am used to but I am not convinced yet
I still feel like in between combat downtime should be low and you able to mitigate downtime by being prepared with potions, food, gear, spec and friends.
You can have some downtime when you are back at the node, crafting the gear you fought for. Not when you are out killing mobs/players.
After reading your post @Lashing and everyone else I am exited to enjoy a different system than what I am used to but I am not convinced yet
I still feel like in between combat downtime should be low and you able to mitigate downtime by being prepared with potions, food, gear, spec and friends.
You can have some downtime when you are back at the node, crafting the gear you fought for. Not when you are out killing mobs/players.
I am actually a big fan of players being able to mitigate downtime via build choices or consumables. Consumables move time spent to another activity while build options requires other power trade offs to be effective. I just know from other games the second mass AOE is most optimal you will be expected to do it and any class that cant do it will not be useful. AOE will always be better but it can be mitigated by making it more risky or give it more downtime or both.
Am also NOT a fan of the current recovery-animation of sitting down.
Panting heavily and perhaps taking a knee with your weapon in-hand, or even your character putting their hands on their knees and lowering their head and breathing heavily while dripping sweat would seem more-realistic, given how tiring mortal combat can be.
SOMETHING should definitely replace the sit-and-wait, though.
Am also NOT a fan of the current recovery-animation of sitting down.
Panting heavily and perhaps taking a knee with your weapon in-hand, or even your character putting their hands on their knees and lowering their head and breathing heavily while dripping sweat would seem more-realistic, given how tiring mortal combat can be.
SOMETHING should definitely replace the sit-and-wait, though.
Those animations should definitely be added as options!
Ideally, I'd see Intrepid add different resting animations that one can choose from. Aion had amazing animations that one could use while waiting - I'd love to see some of them as resting animations. Some examples could be:
* Just sitting - should be available in different poses.
* Pasing back and forth while stretching a bit.
* Conjure a stool or chair to sit on.
* Taking a drink from a water skin.
* Some weapon-based leaning pose (leaning towards your greatsword etc)
You get the idea c: DEVs! Take a look at Aions incredible animations!
1 How long after leaving combat should you be back to full HP/mana?
Depends on the class and build. I'd say 30 seconds is the upper limit on classes with shittiest mana regen builds. Sitting down should get that down to ~20-25s.
@Orym
Personally, I would think that natural hp/mana regen should be very slow without items or spells. Like 3-5mins to regen 100%. Maybe .3% hp/mana per second.
30s rest for 100%, or something like 3% hp/mana per second, seems like a good spot.
The devs will find the exact spots through testing/balancing. It really depends on the interaction with their healing system in general.
One of the problems with making it too fast, is that the utility of some classes goes out the window.
....but was there resource management before you had to sit?
You aren't in combat when you are not fighting there is no resource management involved. Combat and non combat are two different things.
Trying to suggest there is resource management while you literarily are doing nothing is absolutely silly.
I dont think its silly. You arent doing "nothing". You are recovering, thats their vision for the game. You could be in PvP or being chased by a mob or whatever - when are you then out of combat?
Having to sit and wait is not the resource management. It is the penalty for having bad resource management or for taking risks that resulted in having low resources. Slower safe play should result in very little downtime in exchange for less efficiency during actual combat.
....but was there resource management before you had to sit?
You aren't in combat when you are not fighting there is no resource management involved. Combat and non combat are two different things.
Trying to suggest there is resource management while you literarily are doing nothing is absolutely silly.
I dont think its silly. You arent doing "nothing". You are recovering, thats their vision for the game. You could be in PvP or being chased by a mob or whatever - when are you then out of combat?
Their vision lol, last i checked no dev has said sitting requires resource management.
When you are sitting and not in combat you are not doing ANYTHING. Stop trying to say you are doing things, sitting requires you to not being doing any actions hence 0 management.
The fact people keep trying to say it is, is giving me brain rot.
To the other part with people trying to argue some classes can help with that IE bard so you recover faster.
Yall trying to make bard dead on arrival, or have useless skills people aren't going to pick. Unless you are talking about a default passive on bard that makes everyone regen faster. So we are talking about making resting worse (aka the game worse) just to facilitate this ability.
This should have nothing to do with resting and just have to do with general gameplay during combat. Ie increased healing and mp regen during combat. And keep the skills relevant while having resting times to good on their own.
People are trying to be like it needs to be like mmorpgs, while actually ignoring it didn't take 30 seconds to recover in old mmorpgs and more like 10-20 seconds. So effectively they are trying to make it worse and its not even grounded reasoning.
while actually ignoring it didn't take 30 seconds to recover in old mmorpgs and more like 10-20 seconds
L2 took way longer, especially on phys classes. And I'm relatively sure stuff like EQ took longer as well. And I'd assume those were in turn faster than the true old mmos (well, maybe not EQ, cause that shit is ancient).
while actually ignoring it didn't take 30 seconds to recover in old mmorpgs and more like 10-20 seconds
L2 took way longer, especially on phys classes. And I'm relatively sure stuff like EQ took longer as well. And I'd assume those were in turn faster than the true old mmos (well, maybe not EQ, cause that shit is ancient).
If the mmo does not have a rest function you can't say it took longer it simply just doesn't have that. So no EQ1 did not have a rest as you used other means to regain. That also was also meant to be much slower combat pace.
Almost all if not all mmorpgs where you have the ability to rest and recover do not take that long.
If we are talking about automatic regeneration without a rest skill in mmorpgs that still isn't taking over 20 seconds. So it sounds to me like L2 did not have the best design if you are telling me you need to be waiting WAY longer than 30 seconds to recover. Even worse if its like the video people are sayin was like old games where every few fights you should be resting.
Like its already bad and than i hear over 30 seconds on rest in a game, is not doing your side any favors.
I enjoy that sitting..perhaps all crafting while resting and give sitting/resting a 50% boost for heathregen and allow some classes to meditate to boost mana Regen and allow some gear to boost regain rates some that can be crafted... besides the obvious food/drinks
Comments
I much prefer the way they did it in L2 where rez scrolls got you up with full experience loss. But Clerics, as they advanced, could give you rezzes with more and more recovered experience until a Cardinal could give you a 100% resurrection (no experience loss). There weren't very many who could do that on a server, kinda made you popular if you could.
Yep. Going to fully expect and accept a system very similar to this - Various levels of food buffs that reduce out-of-combat downtime, increasing in cost as useable-by-#level increases and stackable (though the last item could start at 20/stack at low level, decreasing to 5/stack at highest levels).
Am not a fan of "/sit" either - Just allow regen to start ticking five seconds after leaving combat. Standing still could allow 20% more ticks/second.
It's going to be an important part of pvp strategy.
A big part of this game is the strategy around player movement and player location. Sitting to rest adds to this game design.
@Xeeg Why are you against regening quick out of combat? I genuinly don't understand what you mean. If you ran away AKA succesfully fled, why do you need a period of sitting before engaging again?
Just trying to understand the other side of the argument more in detail.
Cause depending on what it is, the victim turning around right after they "exit combat and regen super fast" might now have the advantage over the initial attacker, in terms of resources.
Of course it could be argued that the attacker had the upper hand at the start, but I'd say that this is already addressed in the design choice of "greens can't be CCed". I see that design choice as the direct counter to the attacker having an advantage, because depending on the kind of CCs we'll have - the victim might have a CC that allows them to dish out way more dmg than the attacker did in their first strike, but w/o getting any dmg in the meantime.
So, in other words, requiring at least some buffer between the combat exit and regening up to full would level up the playing field.
p.s. if combat is also linked to being flagged, then the victim would have even more of an advantage.
I'm not against it for many kinds of games, but for this game i think quick healing out of combat ruins some of the minute to minute game play strategy. I'm sure some characters will be more mobile than others, so simply "fleeing" is not necessarily the end of the story. What about the next pack of mobs you run into, or other players? Being aware of your current HPs and requirements to either sit, consume items, or find a healer is an important part of the strategy in picking fights and player placement.
Another aspect goes to balancing out exp rates with group comps that include healers and ones that don't. Healers lose out on exp rate/hr by spending time healing rather than damaging enemies. If non healers have to spend time "resting" after the fight, they balance out some of the target to target kill times. Hey, maybe the healer can actually help out on DPS/CC during the fight, only healing if necessary, and then topping up everyone after the fight. That whole idea goes out the window with fast healing out of combat.
Again, there are games and systems where resting to full doesn't fit the game and is just useless downtime that frustrates players. In this game, I think it is an important strategic part of the gameplay.
I actually don't think being in combat and what combat means matters all that much in a 1vs1 pvp context.
This game is supposed to have rock paper scissors type of classes. If I play as a range rogue attacking a tank I expect to be the rock to his scissor and he is not going to be able to run away and out of combat, regening quick.
If it is a pve encounter and I run out of combat to regen up because I can't stay in combat. I think thats completely fine since you would still loose efficency by not attacking a mob because you fled. I don't think you would have to wait more that 10-20 seconds for HP and mana to fully restore to engage again, after you exited combat. It's still worse than with friends.
So in conclusion I think for a pvp encounter. Don't let them get away. This MMO is not balanced for 1vs1 anyways. And for let's say 8 vs 8 scenario I have a hard time seeing "kite and heal" be any useful or viable strategy.
For pve encounter. If you play back and forth fleeing out of combat and in again it's going to be inefficent and you would be better with a healer friend.
@Xeeg Okey, so you fancy a little bit more time being on your toes after you got low and need to regen out in the wild? I can understand that point of view at the same time I can see that being frustrating if someone came by middle into your regen and got an easy kill because you were low from a mob encounter earlier.
I feel like I would look over my shoulder every single time I engaged a mob in that case, but I can see pros and cons with that.
Two Questions to both (and others). 1 How long after leaving combat should you be back to full HP/mana?
Me personally think about 10-20 seconds without having to sit or do anything else than waiting.
2 Do you think mana should be a limiting factor how long you could stay in combat? Even if you do everything you can to fill up.
Basic attacks shouldn't consume mana imo, so you can still contribute at least smth to the fight, but this would have to be properly balanced considering all the passives and triggers and all that shit.
@Orym
Personally, I would think that natural hp/mana regen should be very slow without items or spells. Like 3-5mins to regen 100%. Maybe .3% hp/mana per second.
30s rest for 100%, or something like 3% hp/mana per second, seems like a good spot.
The devs will find the exact spots through testing/balancing. It really depends on the interaction with their healing system in general.
2~2.5% health per second sitting (I'm used to this ramping up the longer you sit, and quite a lot, so that 'recovering 80% health' isn't even twice as long as recovering 30%, sometimes), 0.4% standing. This is normally less than 30 seconds, therefore.
No universal passives for changing this (these are just noob traps or wastes, and nearly never anything in between). Food and gear only. And no 'Bards have an ability that changes this'. I like when Bards or Mages can restore Mana, but not 'out of combat restoration', and certainly not 'improve the natural out-of-combat restoration'. Too limiting for perceptions of grouping.
As for question #2:
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/comment/381917/#Comment_381917
id say something like 2 mins every 10 mins of non stop combat if you are soloing (this also allows you to rest your hands and stand up etc hahaha).
i also like sit baiting. if i know someone wants to kill me and is waiting for me to sit down to start attacking me (maybe because they think im much stronger) i will bait them after killing a couple of mobs, then kill them when they flag
Here is my post about downtime in general but most of it applies to health and mana regeneration. TLDR is that health and mana regen are good balance knobs for playing safe Vs risky aoe pulling. If you want both gameplay variants to exist you cannot have near instant regeneration. Most times a player is killed in the world by mobs is by attrition because players are expected to kill mobs. If you always fight at full resources the game is solved, you will always win. It becomes old fast.
Well it could be abusable depending on how they implement it. I saw another comment about resting rate ramp up time. They could also do something like a 2s animation to rest/standup where your character cant use abilities.
As for the 5mins, I meant that for base rate regen, not sitting down to rest or buffs or spells or anything. In combat base regen rate.
Another thing to take into account is general character balance for solo leveling/grinding. If a character chooses a build/style which doesn't need to rest, maybe they kill the mobs slower than ones that burn alot of hps or mana, kill quickly, but need to rest. This is going to take a lot of balance passes. However, they can set the anchor to 30s rest rate and then balance around that instead.
If they are going to stay with the resting idea, they should have a variety of activities (crafting, cooking, making potions, etc.) that are usable while resting. This way we can synergize our resting time with other things that we can be doing while out in the field. A bonus to crafting while in the field is that only materials drop on death, so if we can craft while gathering we limit our exposure to losing mats.
not using skils during standing up or sitting down animations is fine. but i disagree with the ramping up mechanic. what if you have to sit down then after a few seconds you have to stand up to fight a mob that spawned nearby, or maybe a player ied near you and the mob decided to attack you, or simply someone tried to pvp you. sometimes you have to afk for only a few seconds then you sit down to regen. or maybe even during a boss fight, the supports will heal then sit down to regen when no one needs heals or buffs. not being able to regen well or at full capacity for several seconds when you sit down can really messes up everything i mentioned above.
I still feel like in between combat downtime should be low and you able to mitigate downtime by being prepared with potions, food, gear, spec and friends.
You can have some downtime when you are back at the node, crafting the gear you fought for. Not when you are out killing mobs/players.
I am actually a big fan of players being able to mitigate downtime via build choices or consumables. Consumables move time spent to another activity while build options requires other power trade offs to be effective. I just know from other games the second mass AOE is most optimal you will be expected to do it and any class that cant do it will not be useful. AOE will always be better but it can be mitigated by making it more risky or give it more downtime or both.
Panting heavily and perhaps taking a knee with your weapon in-hand, or even your character putting their hands on their knees and lowering their head and breathing heavily while dripping sweat would seem more-realistic, given how tiring mortal combat can be.
SOMETHING should definitely replace the sit-and-wait, though.
Those animations should definitely be added as options!
Ideally, I'd see Intrepid add different resting animations that one can choose from. Aion had amazing animations that one could use while waiting - I'd love to see some of them as resting animations. Some examples could be:
* Just sitting - should be available in different poses.
* Pasing back and forth while stretching a bit.
* Conjure a stool or chair to sit on.
* Taking a drink from a water skin.
* Some weapon-based leaning pose (leaning towards your greatsword etc)
You get the idea c: DEVs! Take a look at Aions incredible animations!
Interesting
One of the problems with making it too fast, is that the utility of some classes goes out the window.
I dont think its silly. You arent doing "nothing". You are recovering, thats their vision for the game. You could be in PvP or being chased by a mob or whatever - when are you then out of combat?
Their vision lol, last i checked no dev has said sitting requires resource management.
When you are sitting and not in combat you are not doing ANYTHING. Stop trying to say you are doing things, sitting requires you to not being doing any actions hence 0 management.
The fact people keep trying to say it is, is giving me brain rot.
Yall trying to make bard dead on arrival, or have useless skills people aren't going to pick. Unless you are talking about a default passive on bard that makes everyone regen faster. So we are talking about making resting worse (aka the game worse) just to facilitate this ability.
This should have nothing to do with resting and just have to do with general gameplay during combat. Ie increased healing and mp regen during combat. And keep the skills relevant while having resting times to good on their own.
People are trying to be like it needs to be like mmorpgs, while actually ignoring it didn't take 30 seconds to recover in old mmorpgs and more like 10-20 seconds. So effectively they are trying to make it worse and its not even grounded reasoning.
If the mmo does not have a rest function you can't say it took longer it simply just doesn't have that. So no EQ1 did not have a rest as you used other means to regain. That also was also meant to be much slower combat pace.
Almost all if not all mmorpgs where you have the ability to rest and recover do not take that long.
If we are talking about automatic regeneration without a rest skill in mmorpgs that still isn't taking over 20 seconds. So it sounds to me like L2 did not have the best design if you are telling me you need to be waiting WAY longer than 30 seconds to recover. Even worse if its like the video people are sayin was like old games where every few fights you should be resting.
Like its already bad and than i hear over 30 seconds on rest in a game, is not doing your side any favors.