I think the bar should be there, but they could make it less sections. I would love to se a 33% split.
And how could it possibly solve the issue? (Spoiler: first of all, it won't make a difference and secondly, if you watched the stream where Steven talked about, he said that there will be MORE of those segments, 6 to 8, not less)
So really, we are pushing the penalty (time spent without gain) on to some random bounty hunter.
Again though, if your party is going around PKing singular players - that's on local guilds/parties to solve.
And what you are complaining about isn't?
The two scenarios are literally the same from the perspective of not wanting PK'ers to go unpunished. There may well be differences in the two scenarios, but when looked at from that specific perspective, there are no differences.
So, if that is what the issue with the scenario you have suggested actually is, then the scenario I have suggested should be just as big of an issue.
BH's job is a whole separate topic. I doubt that majority of BHs will go into that job with hopes of great income (unless the system itself pays out a lot, while also somehow not abusable). If BH kills your PKer - he did his job and the system will give him smth for it.
Perhaps, perhaps not.
You are making assumptions that we have no immediate reason to assume to support your argument here.
We don't know how BH'ers rewards work at all - and even if that were the case, it would take the group I have with me but a few seconds to kill out dedicated PK player should we spot a BH nearby (or even if we don't, just to get rid of the corruption).
To me, it really wouldn't be viable, and the only way I see it ever happening is in a targeted manner where there is a specific victim in mind and all effort is put to that end (a disproportionate effort based on the possible results).
Now simply change the target in that "targeted manner" to "anyone", and you have yourself the reason. I've known griefers who only did this as their main means of gameplay, because they enjoyed it. I've known guildies who did this to their presumed enemies, but did it on alts as to avoid a war with them.
I already said, if times have truly moved on from such people existing in mmos - great. I'm simply not sure they have.
The reason it would need to be someone specific is because the amount of work involved for the reward (whether in game rewards of grief caused to other players) is much higher than other methods that are all perfectly valid within the game.
I mean, if you bad enough at the game to die to this, and you are going to get upset that someone killed you and didn't get corruption, it isn't the corruption part that you are complaining about. Since we have already established that any "victim" of this is essentially a bad player, it isn't as if they would have the means to retaliate regardless of the corruption state of the attacker.
As such, the corruption is a non-factor to them. It is only a factor to the attacker - at which point see my above scenario.
So, if that is what the issue with the scenario you have suggested actually is, then the scenario I have suggested should be just as big of an issue.
Again, the issue is full avoidance of the corruption threat. In your situation a person gets corrupted.
If your party just holds the victim at a low hp w/o killing him - then the situations are similar, but the difference would be the sheer power lvl difference. At which point we come back to the lvl50vslvl20 situation that I brought up to Laetitian, where I said that other players in the vicinity are likely to help the victim, because people dislike when someone strong is abusing someone way weaker (but as I said in a different comment, help doesn't always come). And if there's a whole party going around harassing people, that means that there's a guild/node lvl issue going on.
We don't know how BH'ers rewards work at all - and even if that were the case, it would take the group I have with me but a few seconds to kill out dedicated PK player should we spot a BH nearby (or even if we don't, just to get rid of the corruption).
Which means that the corruption penalty still applied and that you'll need to deal with its consequences.
The reason it would need to be someone specific is because the amount of work involved for the reward (whether in game rewards of grief caused to other players) is much higher than other methods that are all perfectly valid within the game.
Again, the "reward" is just annoying people. Keeping someone from enjoying the game is one of the biggest and best ways to annoy that someone. Keeping a player at low hp in a location with mobs would most likely prevent that player from touching those mobs, which is the goal of the griefer. There's no real work involved here.
I mean, if you bad enough at the game to die to this, and you are going to get upset that someone killed you and didn't get corruption, it isn't the corruption part that you are complaining about. Since we have already established that any "victim" of this is essentially a bad player, it isn't as if they would have the means to retaliate regardless of the corruption state of the attacker.
As such, the corruption is a non-factor to them. It is only a factor to the attacker - at which point see my above scenario.
Again, the issue here is the ease of avoidance of the corruption penalty risk. If the attacker doesn't know how hard he's hitting the victim - he'll either not hit the victim as much or might make a mistake and become corrupted.
The bad player victim might be able to fight their weak mobs at roughly half hp, but might be too afraid to fight them at <25%. And with Steven saying that we might get 1/6 or even 1/8 indicators - the griefers would 100% go down the path that leads to this upgrade, which means that the victims will in fact be even lower than at 25% hp, which in turn definitely prevents them from fighting any mobs.
I'll give an example from L2. My group was just messing around with some people near a TP spawn to a valuable mob location. We'd do a hit against randos from time to time simply to stay flagged, because it was a often frequented pvp location for strong players. Usually we'd use the weakest abilities of our characters, but sometimes we'd use a normal one.
And once one of my mages used his normal ability on a newly TPed random. And at the same time my healer's flag was dropping so he decided to use his atk on the same random as well at almost the same time. But it just so happened that the random was relatively weak and the mage had a crit. So the healer, even with his super weak atk (last upgrade of which was at lvl20, while he was lvl80), PKed the random dude. And after that moment this healer was jokingly called the strongest healer on the server because he managed to PK another person with his weakest ability (healers in L2 pretty much do 0 dmg, which is why this was a funny moment).
It was a private server, so due to higher rates the corruption was cleared pretty fast, but this was just an example of a player not knowing that even their weakest atk could get them in trouble, purely because L2 didn't have hp indicators.
I give this example because I want the same to happen to griefers, except AoC's corruption-related risks are way higher than what we had on that L2 server, so the griefer would be hit much harder. Seeing hp makes the possibility of that situation waaaay smaller and much more controllable.
It looks like it’s quarterly health bars confirmed and probably how it’s going to stay
It honestly just takes something away from the whole experience.
how? if oyu pvp someone it takes 3 nukes to kill that person, next time you pvp them, or pvp anothe rperson using the same class, same gear and same level, it will take 3 nukes to kill that person. the amount of damage you do is not important, the amount of hits you need is important.
you will still be able to see their nameplates degrading so you will know how many more hits you need to kill them, based on their degradation rate form your previous hits. you just wanna see if they are low so you dont waste a cooldown, which is intended as steven explained during the last caravan stream. you have to judge whether you want to use a powerful skill on someone who is dying or not.
also, there isnt any evidence that you will play better because you can see the enemy hp. if you look at league or dota for example, the majority of players use their ultimate when their enemy is at 1 health instead of using a basic skill XD that is extremely common among players who arent pro.
just because you can see the enemy hp doesnt mean you will automatically make better choices.
It looks like it’s quarterly health bars confirmed and probably how it’s going to stay
It honestly just takes something away from the whole experience.
how? if oyu pvp someone it takes 3 nukes to kill that person, next time you pvp them, or pvp anothe rperson using the same class, same gear and same level, it will take 3 nukes to kill that person. the amount of damage you do is not important, the amount of hits you need is important.
No, this would imply that Passives are weak.
Gear, level, and class are nowhere near enough to tell you anything. The entire MOBA genre is based on this concept (if you treat defensive items as passives, not 'gear').
It looks like it’s quarterly health bars confirmed and probably how it’s going to stay
It honestly just takes something away from the whole experience.
how? if oyu pvp someone it takes 3 nukes to kill that person, next time you pvp them, or pvp anothe rperson using the same class, same gear and same level, it will take 3 nukes to kill that person. the amount of damage you do is not important, the amount of hits you need is important.
you will still be able to see their nameplates degrading so you will know how many more hits you need to kill them, based on their degradation rate form your previous hits. you just wanna see if they are low so you dont waste a cooldown, which is intended as steven explained during the last caravan stream. you have to judge whether you want to use a powerful skill on someone who is dying or not.
also, there isnt any evidence that you will play better because you can see the enemy hp. if you look at league or dota for example, the majority of players use their ultimate when their enemy is at 1 health instead of using a basic skill XD that is extremely common among players who arent pro.
just because you can see the enemy hp doesnt mean you will automatically make better choices.
What do you mean how? I push a button and the game doesn't show me what happens to my target. Eventually when I push enough buttons the game will vaguely update me about what happened, but not entirely because it's important that I not know precisely what's happening when its happening. Explain the appeal of that too me.
Now if I where to say study wiki pages and other online tools to know how much Hp a person should have at all levels and for all classes, I could then, with enough study and time, know about how much hp the person I'm fighting should have. And if I then track all of the damage for all the people I'm fighting in my head (along with all the damage all of my group mates are doing to all of their targets), I should then have a vague idea of what is happening on the battle field at any given time. Roughly...
Sectioned HP bars give a rough idea, but it only mitigates the problem, doesn't solve it. And if they section it to 1/8th or 1/16th, whats the point of having the sections?
It looks like it’s quarterly health bars confirmed and probably how it’s going to stay
It honestly just takes something away from the whole experience.
how? if oyu pvp someone it takes 3 nukes to kill that person, next time you pvp them, or pvp anothe rperson using the same class, same gear and same level, it will take 3 nukes to kill that person. the amount of damage you do is not important, the amount of hits you need is important.
you will still be able to see their nameplates degrading so you will know how many more hits you need to kill them, based on their degradation rate form your previous hits. you just wanna see if they are low so you dont waste a cooldown, which is intended as steven explained during the last caravan stream. you have to judge whether you want to use a powerful skill on someone who is dying or not.
also, there isnt any evidence that you will play better because you can see the enemy hp. if you look at league or dota for example, the majority of players use their ultimate when their enemy is at 1 health instead of using a basic skill XD that is extremely common among players who arent pro.
just because you can see the enemy hp doesnt mean you will automatically make better choices.
What do you mean how? I push a button and the game doesn't show me what happens to my target. Eventually when I push enough buttons the game will vaguely update me about what happened, but not entirely because it's important that I not know precisely what's happening when its happening. Explain the appeal of that too me.
Now if I where to say study wiki pages and other online tools to know how much Hp a person should have at all levels and for all classes, I could then, with enough study and time, know about how much hp the person I'm fighting should have. And if I then track all of the damage for all the people I'm fighting in my head (along with all the damage all of my group mates are doing to all of their targets), I should then have a vague idea of what is happening on the battle field at any given time. Roughly...
Sectioned HP bars give a rough idea, but it only mitigates the problem, doesn't solve it. And if they section it to 1/8th or 1/16th, whats the point of having the sections?
The game showed you you missed or you hit them for whatever amount of dmg. So it shows you what is happening to your target.
The only argument you are making is you want to know when someone is almost dead to throw all your strongest CDs at them to confirm, stun, etc.
People here are making a argument they don't want to you show those stats because people will view the hp and try to feed someone to a mob to avoid corruption punishment,
Nikr made a point about knowledge is skill and understanding, and you are effectively complaining about needing to use that element of skill and don't want to do it.
Either way based on the loot in this game that drops, things will be tested in A2 I'm sure things will stay as they are. I hope the same people don't complain about being fed to mobs. Personally im for elements being more harsh in the corruption system so if you try to feed someone to mobs you end up corrupted if you have done significant dmg when they died.
Also the HP bar should only update when you hit them for a slight time before being unknown again to the player. Being tab locked to a player target should show you no information until you hit them and then fade away in a second.
Overly sensitive players who cannot deal with PvP side effects and talk in the chat are not part of the target audience Steven hopes to get.
I'm more worried about the consequences that might result from this particular abuse of the system, if it's in any way as prevalent as I think it could be with the current system.
Steven seems sensitive to what streamers talk and those will get access to the game too. Who knows how the game will change.
is one of the bigger reasons for my worry.
The pvp system is set up in the current way because Steven likes it that way. But if he gets overwhelming feedback of "this system is too abusable", I feel like he might change it to smth worse (well, worse for me of course).
But yes, testing will ultimately show us how spooky this truly is, if at all.
I've known griefers who only did this as their main means of gameplay, because they enjoyed it. I've known guildies who did this to their presumed enemies, but did it on alts as to avoid a war with them.
I already said, if times have truly moved on from such people existing in mmos - great. I'm simply not sure they have.
The game mechanic allows this behavior so it is not griefing.
When we think about 'what is griefing?' Griefing isn't necessarily the realization of risk. Risk is a healthy thing. Risk makes us value reward. Without risk we would not pursue certain achievements, because anybody could achieve them. Risk makes us have a sense of thrill, or have some sense of anxiety; and those are all emotional responses that get elicited when risk is present. So, risk isn't a bad thing. We like risk, not just in PvP but in PvE as well: when you can't always predict the environment or encounter you are part of, risk is something like 'Ah, I've never seen this boss do that before.' or these adds came at an ill-placed time, there's a trap here that I didn't experience before. There's a lot of elements that risk introduces that keep gameplay less stale; that keep it more dynamic; that introduce environments where the unexpected can occur. That is a good thing. Now the question is, when risk becomes something that doesn't stop other players from impacting your gameplay in a negative and harassing and repetitive manner. The motivation to do that action is less about their personal advancement and more about impacting your gameplay, because when they elicit the response of anger or rage from the player, they feel a sense of accomplishment. That in my opinion is what griefing is. It is outside of the expectation of the gameplay behavior that is communicated in the design philosophy.[1] – Steven Sharif
Players that work outside of the game design to grief or harass other players are actionable by customer services.[1]
It looks like it’s quarterly health bars confirmed and probably how it’s going to stay
It honestly just takes something away from the whole experience.
how? if oyu pvp someone it takes 3 nukes to kill that person, next time you pvp them, or pvp anothe rperson using the same class, same gear and same level, it will take 3 nukes to kill that person. the amount of damage you do is not important, the amount of hits you need is important.
No, this would imply that Passives are weak.
Gear, level, and class are nowhere near enough to tell you anything. The entire MOBA genre is based on this concept (if you treat defensive items as passives, not 'gear').
It looks like it’s quarterly health bars confirmed and probably how it’s going to stay
It honestly just takes something away from the whole experience.
how? if oyu pvp someone it takes 3 nukes to kill that person, next time you pvp them, or pvp anothe rperson using the same class, same gear and same level, it will take 3 nukes to kill that person. the amount of damage you do is not important, the amount of hits you need is important.
you will still be able to see their nameplates degrading so you will know how many more hits you need to kill them, based on their degradation rate form your previous hits. you just wanna see if they are low so you dont waste a cooldown, which is intended as steven explained during the last caravan stream. you have to judge whether you want to use a powerful skill on someone who is dying or not.
also, there isnt any evidence that you will play better because you can see the enemy hp. if you look at league or dota for example, the majority of players use their ultimate when their enemy is at 1 health instead of using a basic skill XD that is extremely common among players who arent pro.
just because you can see the enemy hp doesnt mean you will automatically make better choices.
What do you mean how? I push a button and the game doesn't show me what happens to my target. Eventually when I push enough buttons the game will vaguely update me about what happened, but not entirely because it's important that I not know precisely what's happening when its happening. Explain the appeal of that too me.
Now if I where to say study wiki pages and other online tools to know how much Hp a person should have at all levels and for all classes, I could then, with enough study and time, know about how much hp the person I'm fighting should have. And if I then track all of the damage for all the people I'm fighting in my head (along with all the damage all of my group mates are doing to all of their targets), I should then have a vague idea of what is happening on the battle field at any given time. Roughly...
Sectioned HP bars give a rough idea, but it only mitigates the problem, doesn't solve it. And if they section it to 1/8th or 1/16th, whats the point of having the sections?
lol what? if you use fear and you land it, you can see your opponent running away or in circles, if you miss, you will notice because they will keep doing what they were doing. same with stuns or any cc. if you do damage, you will see the damage numbers, you might even get a particle effect or mini animation (maybe a flinch animation or something), you can see the nameplates deteriorating, etc.
be honest. its ok to ay it, no shame. you wanna see their hp to be able to judge their strength and avoid fights.
It looks like it’s quarterly health bars confirmed and probably how it’s going to stay
It honestly just takes something away from the whole experience.
how? if oyu pvp someone it takes 3 nukes to kill that person, next time you pvp them, or pvp anothe rperson using the same class, same gear and same level, it will take 3 nukes to kill that person. the amount of damage you do is not important, the amount of hits you need is important.
you will still be able to see their nameplates degrading so you will know how many more hits you need to kill them, based on their degradation rate form your previous hits. you just wanna see if they are low so you dont waste a cooldown, which is intended as steven explained during the last caravan stream. you have to judge whether you want to use a powerful skill on someone who is dying or not.
also, there isnt any evidence that you will play better because you can see the enemy hp. if you look at league or dota for example, the majority of players use their ultimate when their enemy is at 1 health instead of using a basic skill XD that is extremely common among players who arent pro.
just because you can see the enemy hp doesnt mean you will automatically make better choices.
What do you mean how? I push a button and the game doesn't show me what happens to my target. Eventually when I push enough buttons the game will vaguely update me about what happened, but not entirely because it's important that I not know precisely what's happening when its happening. Explain the appeal of that too me.
Now if I where to say study wiki pages and other online tools to know how much Hp a person should have at all levels and for all classes, I could then, with enough study and time, know about how much hp the person I'm fighting should have. And if I then track all of the damage for all the people I'm fighting in my head (along with all the damage all of my group mates are doing to all of their targets), I should then have a vague idea of what is happening on the battle field at any given time. Roughly...
Sectioned HP bars give a rough idea, but it only mitigates the problem, doesn't solve it. And if they section it to 1/8th or 1/16th, whats the point of having the sections?
The game showed you you missed or you hit them for whatever amount of dmg. So it shows you what is happening to your target.
The only argument you are making is you want to know when someone is almost dead to throw all your strongest CDs at them to confirm, stun, etc.
People here are making a argument they don't want to you show those stats because people will view the hp and try to feed someone to a mob to avoid corruption punishment,
Nikr made a point about knowledge is skill and understanding, and you are effectively complaining about needing to use that element of skill and don't want to do it.
Either way based on the loot in this game that drops, things will be tested in A2 I'm sure things will stay as they are. I hope the same people don't complain about being fed to mobs. Personally im for elements being more harsh in the corruption system so if you try to feed someone to mobs you end up corrupted if you have done significant dmg when they died.
Also the HP bar should only update when you hit them for a slight time before being unknown again to the player. Being tab locked to a player target should show you no information until you hit them and then fade away in a second.
Too reductive and false. If you want open world pvp you are going to have deal with open world pvp.
Hiding info about your status is a system you are familiar with and you see ways you came game it to your benefit. It's creates a moat between you and anyone else that doesn't play as much as you. Why do you require that moat?
None of you have described how this gives a better game experience. I don't think you can.
It looks like it’s quarterly health bars confirmed and probably how it’s going to stay
It honestly just takes something away from the whole experience.
how? if oyu pvp someone it takes 3 nukes to kill that person, next time you pvp them, or pvp anothe rperson using the same class, same gear and same level, it will take 3 nukes to kill that person. the amount of damage you do is not important, the amount of hits you need is important.
you will still be able to see their nameplates degrading so you will know how many more hits you need to kill them, based on their degradation rate form your previous hits. you just wanna see if they are low so you dont waste a cooldown, which is intended as steven explained during the last caravan stream. you have to judge whether you want to use a powerful skill on someone who is dying or not.
also, there isnt any evidence that you will play better because you can see the enemy hp. if you look at league or dota for example, the majority of players use their ultimate when their enemy is at 1 health instead of using a basic skill XD that is extremely common among players who arent pro.
just because you can see the enemy hp doesnt mean you will automatically make better choices.
What do you mean how? I push a button and the game doesn't show me what happens to my target. Eventually when I push enough buttons the game will vaguely update me about what happened, but not entirely because it's important that I not know precisely what's happening when its happening. Explain the appeal of that too me.
Now if I where to say study wiki pages and other online tools to know how much Hp a person should have at all levels and for all classes, I could then, with enough study and time, know about how much hp the person I'm fighting should have. And if I then track all of the damage for all the people I'm fighting in my head (along with all the damage all of my group mates are doing to all of their targets), I should then have a vague idea of what is happening on the battle field at any given time. Roughly...
Sectioned HP bars give a rough idea, but it only mitigates the problem, doesn't solve it. And if they section it to 1/8th or 1/16th, whats the point of having the sections?
The game showed you you missed or you hit them for whatever amount of dmg. So it shows you what is happening to your target.
The only argument you are making is you want to know when someone is almost dead to throw all your strongest CDs at them to confirm, stun, etc.
People here are making a argument they don't want to you show those stats because people will view the hp and try to feed someone to a mob to avoid corruption punishment,
Nikr made a point about knowledge is skill and understanding, and you are effectively complaining about needing to use that element of skill and don't want to do it.
Either way based on the loot in this game that drops, things will be tested in A2 I'm sure things will stay as they are. I hope the same people don't complain about being fed to mobs. Personally im for elements being more harsh in the corruption system so if you try to feed someone to mobs you end up corrupted if you have done significant dmg when they died.
Also the HP bar should only update when you hit them for a slight time before being unknown again to the player. Being tab locked to a player target should show you no information until you hit them and then fade away in a second.
Too reductive and false. If you want open world pvp you are going to have deal with open world pvp.
Hiding info about your status is a system you are familiar with and you see ways you came game it to your benefit. It's creates a moat between you and anyone else that doesn't play as much as you. Why do you require that moat?
None of you have described how this gives a better game experience. I don't think you can.
To make this clear, you have no issue if i feed you to mobs multiple times and get your loot without being corrupted because that is pvp?
It looks like it’s quarterly health bars confirmed and probably how it’s going to stay
It honestly just takes something away from the whole experience.
how? if oyu pvp someone it takes 3 nukes to kill that person, next time you pvp them, or pvp anothe rperson using the same class, same gear and same level, it will take 3 nukes to kill that person. the amount of damage you do is not important, the amount of hits you need is important.
you will still be able to see their nameplates degrading so you will know how many more hits you need to kill them, based on their degradation rate form your previous hits. you just wanna see if they are low so you dont waste a cooldown, which is intended as steven explained during the last caravan stream. you have to judge whether you want to use a powerful skill on someone who is dying or not.
also, there isnt any evidence that you will play better because you can see the enemy hp. if you look at league or dota for example, the majority of players use their ultimate when their enemy is at 1 health instead of using a basic skill XD that is extremely common among players who arent pro.
just because you can see the enemy hp doesnt mean you will automatically make better choices.
What do you mean how? I push a button and the game doesn't show me what happens to my target. Eventually when I push enough buttons the game will vaguely update me about what happened, but not entirely because it's important that I not know precisely what's happening when its happening. Explain the appeal of that too me.
Now if I where to say study wiki pages and other online tools to know how much Hp a person should have at all levels and for all classes, I could then, with enough study and time, know about how much hp the person I'm fighting should have. And if I then track all of the damage for all the people I'm fighting in my head (along with all the damage all of my group mates are doing to all of their targets), I should then have a vague idea of what is happening on the battle field at any given time. Roughly...
Sectioned HP bars give a rough idea, but it only mitigates the problem, doesn't solve it. And if they section it to 1/8th or 1/16th, whats the point of having the sections?
The game showed you you missed or you hit them for whatever amount of dmg. So it shows you what is happening to your target.
The only argument you are making is you want to know when someone is almost dead to throw all your strongest CDs at them to confirm, stun, etc.
People here are making a argument they don't want to you show those stats because people will view the hp and try to feed someone to a mob to avoid corruption punishment,
Nikr made a point about knowledge is skill and understanding, and you are effectively complaining about needing to use that element of skill and don't want to do it.
Either way based on the loot in this game that drops, things will be tested in A2 I'm sure things will stay as they are. I hope the same people don't complain about being fed to mobs. Personally im for elements being more harsh in the corruption system so if you try to feed someone to mobs you end up corrupted if you have done significant dmg when they died.
Also the HP bar should only update when you hit them for a slight time before being unknown again to the player. Being tab locked to a player target should show you no information until you hit them and then fade away in a second.
Too reductive and false. If you want open world pvp you are going to have deal with open world pvp.
Hiding info about your status is a system you are familiar with and you see ways you came game it to your benefit. It's creates a moat between you and anyone else that doesn't play as much as you. Why do you require that moat?
None of you have described how this gives a better game experience. I don't think you can.
To make this clear, you have no issue if i feed you to mobs multiple times and get your loot without being corrupted because that is pvp?
Sounds good, you still didn't answer the question. Can you?
It looks like it’s quarterly health bars confirmed and probably how it’s going to stay
It honestly just takes something away from the whole experience.
how? if oyu pvp someone it takes 3 nukes to kill that person, next time you pvp them, or pvp anothe rperson using the same class, same gear and same level, it will take 3 nukes to kill that person. the amount of damage you do is not important, the amount of hits you need is important.
you will still be able to see their nameplates degrading so you will know how many more hits you need to kill them, based on their degradation rate form your previous hits. you just wanna see if they are low so you dont waste a cooldown, which is intended as steven explained during the last caravan stream. you have to judge whether you want to use a powerful skill on someone who is dying or not.
also, there isnt any evidence that you will play better because you can see the enemy hp. if you look at league or dota for example, the majority of players use their ultimate when their enemy is at 1 health instead of using a basic skill XD that is extremely common among players who arent pro.
just because you can see the enemy hp doesnt mean you will automatically make better choices.
What do you mean how? I push a button and the game doesn't show me what happens to my target. Eventually when I push enough buttons the game will vaguely update me about what happened, but not entirely because it's important that I not know precisely what's happening when its happening. Explain the appeal of that too me.
Now if I where to say study wiki pages and other online tools to know how much Hp a person should have at all levels and for all classes, I could then, with enough study and time, know about how much hp the person I'm fighting should have. And if I then track all of the damage for all the people I'm fighting in my head (along with all the damage all of my group mates are doing to all of their targets), I should then have a vague idea of what is happening on the battle field at any given time. Roughly...
Sectioned HP bars give a rough idea, but it only mitigates the problem, doesn't solve it. And if they section it to 1/8th or 1/16th, whats the point of having the sections?
The game showed you you missed or you hit them for whatever amount of dmg. So it shows you what is happening to your target.
The only argument you are making is you want to know when someone is almost dead to throw all your strongest CDs at them to confirm, stun, etc.
People here are making a argument they don't want to you show those stats because people will view the hp and try to feed someone to a mob to avoid corruption punishment,
Nikr made a point about knowledge is skill and understanding, and you are effectively complaining about needing to use that element of skill and don't want to do it.
Either way based on the loot in this game that drops, things will be tested in A2 I'm sure things will stay as they are. I hope the same people don't complain about being fed to mobs. Personally im for elements being more harsh in the corruption system so if you try to feed someone to mobs you end up corrupted if you have done significant dmg when they died.
Also the HP bar should only update when you hit them for a slight time before being unknown again to the player. Being tab locked to a player target should show you no information until you hit them and then fade away in a second.
Too reductive and false. If you want open world pvp you are going to have deal with open world pvp.
Hiding info about your status is a system you are familiar with and you see ways you came game it to your benefit. It's creates a moat between you and anyone else that doesn't play as much as you. Why do you require that moat?
None of you have described how this gives a better game experience. I don't think you can.
To make this clear, you have no issue if i feed you to mobs multiple times and get your loot without being corrupted because that is pvp?
Sounds good, you still didn't answer the question. Can you?
How does this create a better game experience?
How it makes a better experience has already been answered already by Nikr. I'm trying to figure out the root of the issue.
So it sounds good for players to bypass corruption and get players killed and be able to get their loot since it is just pvp. That is fair to have your opinion be like that since everyone is entitled to their own desires and choices.
To go on, are you of mine set general people in the game will be fine with people using mobs to kill them and accept it worth complaining. Meaning it is just part of the game from a general players perspective. So if Dygz's or Azherae group had mobs pulled on them and were killed they wouldn't have any issues? Or if other players did have issues you would tell them that is how the game works?
It looks like it’s quarterly health bars confirmed and probably how it’s going to stay
It honestly just takes something away from the whole experience.
how? if oyu pvp someone it takes 3 nukes to kill that person, next time you pvp them, or pvp anothe rperson using the same class, same gear and same level, it will take 3 nukes to kill that person. the amount of damage you do is not important, the amount of hits you need is important.
you will still be able to see their nameplates degrading so you will know how many more hits you need to kill them, based on their degradation rate form your previous hits. you just wanna see if they are low so you dont waste a cooldown, which is intended as steven explained during the last caravan stream. you have to judge whether you want to use a powerful skill on someone who is dying or not.
also, there isnt any evidence that you will play better because you can see the enemy hp. if you look at league or dota for example, the majority of players use their ultimate when their enemy is at 1 health instead of using a basic skill XD that is extremely common among players who arent pro.
just because you can see the enemy hp doesnt mean you will automatically make better choices.
What do you mean how? I push a button and the game doesn't show me what happens to my target. Eventually when I push enough buttons the game will vaguely update me about what happened, but not entirely because it's important that I not know precisely what's happening when its happening. Explain the appeal of that too me.
Now if I where to say study wiki pages and other online tools to know how much Hp a person should have at all levels and for all classes, I could then, with enough study and time, know about how much hp the person I'm fighting should have. And if I then track all of the damage for all the people I'm fighting in my head (along with all the damage all of my group mates are doing to all of their targets), I should then have a vague idea of what is happening on the battle field at any given time. Roughly...
Sectioned HP bars give a rough idea, but it only mitigates the problem, doesn't solve it. And if they section it to 1/8th or 1/16th, whats the point of having the sections?
The game showed you you missed or you hit them for whatever amount of dmg. So it shows you what is happening to your target.
The only argument you are making is you want to know when someone is almost dead to throw all your strongest CDs at them to confirm, stun, etc.
People here are making a argument they don't want to you show those stats because people will view the hp and try to feed someone to a mob to avoid corruption punishment,
Nikr made a point about knowledge is skill and understanding, and you are effectively complaining about needing to use that element of skill and don't want to do it.
Either way based on the loot in this game that drops, things will be tested in A2 I'm sure things will stay as they are. I hope the same people don't complain about being fed to mobs. Personally im for elements being more harsh in the corruption system so if you try to feed someone to mobs you end up corrupted if you have done significant dmg when they died.
Also the HP bar should only update when you hit them for a slight time before being unknown again to the player. Being tab locked to a player target should show you no information until you hit them and then fade away in a second.
Too reductive and false. If you want open world pvp you are going to have deal with open world pvp.
Hiding info about your status is a system you are familiar with and you see ways you came game it to your benefit. It's creates a moat between you and anyone else that doesn't play as much as you. Why do you require that moat?
None of you have described how this gives a better game experience. I don't think you can.
To make this clear, you have no issue if i feed you to mobs multiple times and get your loot without being corrupted because that is pvp?
Sounds good, you still didn't answer the question. Can you?
How does this create a better game experience?
How it makes a better experience has already been answered already by Nikr. I'm trying to figure out the root of the issue.
So it sounds good for players to bypass corruption and get players killed and be able to get their loot since it is just pvp. That is fair to have your opinion be like that since everyone is entitled to their own desires and choices.
To go on, are you of mine set general people in the game will be fine with people using mobs to kill them and accept it worth complaining. Meaning it is just part of the game from a general players perspective. So if Dygz's or Azherae group had mobs pulled on them and were killed they wouldn't have any issues? Or if other players did have issues you would tell them that is how the game works?
It looks like it’s quarterly health bars confirmed and probably how it’s going to stay
It honestly just takes something away from the whole experience.
how? if oyu pvp someone it takes 3 nukes to kill that person, next time you pvp them, or pvp anothe rperson using the same class, same gear and same level, it will take 3 nukes to kill that person. the amount of damage you do is not important, the amount of hits you need is important.
you will still be able to see their nameplates degrading so you will know how many more hits you need to kill them, based on their degradation rate form your previous hits. you just wanna see if they are low so you dont waste a cooldown, which is intended as steven explained during the last caravan stream. you have to judge whether you want to use a powerful skill on someone who is dying or not.
also, there isnt any evidence that you will play better because you can see the enemy hp. if you look at league or dota for example, the majority of players use their ultimate when their enemy is at 1 health instead of using a basic skill XD that is extremely common among players who arent pro.
just because you can see the enemy hp doesnt mean you will automatically make better choices.
What do you mean how? I push a button and the game doesn't show me what happens to my target. Eventually when I push enough buttons the game will vaguely update me about what happened, but not entirely because it's important that I not know precisely what's happening when its happening. Explain the appeal of that too me.
Now if I where to say study wiki pages and other online tools to know how much Hp a person should have at all levels and for all classes, I could then, with enough study and time, know about how much hp the person I'm fighting should have. And if I then track all of the damage for all the people I'm fighting in my head (along with all the damage all of my group mates are doing to all of their targets), I should then have a vague idea of what is happening on the battle field at any given time. Roughly...
Sectioned HP bars give a rough idea, but it only mitigates the problem, doesn't solve it. And if they section it to 1/8th or 1/16th, whats the point of having the sections?
The game showed you you missed or you hit them for whatever amount of dmg. So it shows you what is happening to your target.
The only argument you are making is you want to know when someone is almost dead to throw all your strongest CDs at them to confirm, stun, etc.
People here are making a argument they don't want to you show those stats because people will view the hp and try to feed someone to a mob to avoid corruption punishment,
Nikr made a point about knowledge is skill and understanding, and you are effectively complaining about needing to use that element of skill and don't want to do it.
Either way based on the loot in this game that drops, things will be tested in A2 I'm sure things will stay as they are. I hope the same people don't complain about being fed to mobs. Personally im for elements being more harsh in the corruption system so if you try to feed someone to mobs you end up corrupted if you have done significant dmg when they died.
Also the HP bar should only update when you hit them for a slight time before being unknown again to the player. Being tab locked to a player target should show you no information until you hit them and then fade away in a second.
Too reductive and false. If you want open world pvp you are going to have deal with open world pvp.
Hiding info about your status is a system you are familiar with and you see ways you came game it to your benefit. It's creates a moat between you and anyone else that doesn't play as much as you. Why do you require that moat?
None of you have described how this gives a better game experience. I don't think you can.
To make this clear, you have no issue if i feed you to mobs multiple times and get your loot without being corrupted because that is pvp?
Sounds good, you still didn't answer the question. Can you?
How does this create a better game experience?
How it makes a better experience has already been answered already by Nikr. I'm trying to figure out the root of the issue.
So it sounds good for players to bypass corruption and get players killed and be able to get their loot since it is just pvp. That is fair to have your opinion be like that since everyone is entitled to their own desires and choices.
To go on, are you of mine set general people in the game will be fine with people using mobs to kill them and accept it worth complaining. Meaning it is just part of the game from a general players perspective. So if Dygz's or Azherae group had mobs pulled on them and were killed they wouldn't have any issues? Or if other players did have issues you would tell them that is how the game works?
Why do you still bring my name into these things as if I'm a PvE-first player?
Of course we don't have problems if we have mobs pulled on us, and that's not even the situation being talked about here. We're talking about 'my Tank is fighting mobs and someone attacks the tank and tries to keep him low so that I have to heal him and then tries to bring me down low the moment before the mob turns to me'.
Of course 'that's how the game works'. Except that the moment you touch my Paladin he reacts and we take up a mob-dependent defense 'formation'. Because that's how the game works.
And while I don't aim to speak for Dygz, I can at least repeat on his behalf that all he cares about is that the player doesn't do it often enough for there to be an issue. I don't think I've ever seen Dygz have even an implied complaint about 'dropping mats because he died while green', since his intention was to always be green.
It looks like it’s quarterly health bars confirmed and probably how it’s going to stay
It honestly just takes something away from the whole experience.
how? if oyu pvp someone it takes 3 nukes to kill that person, next time you pvp them, or pvp anothe rperson using the same class, same gear and same level, it will take 3 nukes to kill that person. the amount of damage you do is not important, the amount of hits you need is important.
you will still be able to see their nameplates degrading so you will know how many more hits you need to kill them, based on their degradation rate form your previous hits. you just wanna see if they are low so you dont waste a cooldown, which is intended as steven explained during the last caravan stream. you have to judge whether you want to use a powerful skill on someone who is dying or not.
also, there isnt any evidence that you will play better because you can see the enemy hp. if you look at league or dota for example, the majority of players use their ultimate when their enemy is at 1 health instead of using a basic skill XD that is extremely common among players who arent pro.
just because you can see the enemy hp doesnt mean you will automatically make better choices.
What do you mean how? I push a button and the game doesn't show me what happens to my target. Eventually when I push enough buttons the game will vaguely update me about what happened, but not entirely because it's important that I not know precisely what's happening when its happening. Explain the appeal of that too me.
Now if I where to say study wiki pages and other online tools to know how much Hp a person should have at all levels and for all classes, I could then, with enough study and time, know about how much hp the person I'm fighting should have. And if I then track all of the damage for all the people I'm fighting in my head (along with all the damage all of my group mates are doing to all of their targets), I should then have a vague idea of what is happening on the battle field at any given time. Roughly...
Sectioned HP bars give a rough idea, but it only mitigates the problem, doesn't solve it. And if they section it to 1/8th or 1/16th, whats the point of having the sections?
The game showed you you missed or you hit them for whatever amount of dmg. So it shows you what is happening to your target.
The only argument you are making is you want to know when someone is almost dead to throw all your strongest CDs at them to confirm, stun, etc.
People here are making a argument they don't want to you show those stats because people will view the hp and try to feed someone to a mob to avoid corruption punishment,
Nikr made a point about knowledge is skill and understanding, and you are effectively complaining about needing to use that element of skill and don't want to do it.
Either way based on the loot in this game that drops, things will be tested in A2 I'm sure things will stay as they are. I hope the same people don't complain about being fed to mobs. Personally im for elements being more harsh in the corruption system so if you try to feed someone to mobs you end up corrupted if you have done significant dmg when they died.
Also the HP bar should only update when you hit them for a slight time before being unknown again to the player. Being tab locked to a player target should show you no information until you hit them and then fade away in a second.
Too reductive and false. If you want open world pvp you are going to have deal with open world pvp.
Hiding info about your status is a system you are familiar with and you see ways you came game it to your benefit. It's creates a moat between you and anyone else that doesn't play as much as you. Why do you require that moat?
None of you have described how this gives a better game experience. I don't think you can.
To make this clear, you have no issue if i feed you to mobs multiple times and get your loot without being corrupted because that is pvp?
Sounds good, you still didn't answer the question. Can you?
How does this create a better game experience?
How it makes a better experience has already been answered already by Nikr. I'm trying to figure out the root of the issue.
So it sounds good for players to bypass corruption and get players killed and be able to get their loot since it is just pvp. That is fair to have your opinion be like that since everyone is entitled to their own desires and choices.
To go on, are you of mine set general people in the game will be fine with people using mobs to kill them and accept it worth complaining. Meaning it is just part of the game from a general players perspective. So if Dygz's or Azherae group had mobs pulled on them and were killed they wouldn't have any issues? Or if other players did have issues you would tell them that is how the game works?
Why do you still bring my name into these things as if I'm a PvE-first player?
Of course we don't have problems if we have mobs pulled on us, and that's not even the situation being talked about here. We're talking about 'my Tank is fighting mobs and someone attacks the tank and tries to keep him low so that I have to heal him and then tries to bring me down low the moment before the mob turns to me'.
Of course 'that's how the game works'. Except that the moment you touch my Paladin he reacts and we take up a mob-dependent defense 'formation'. Because that's how the game works.
And while I don't aim to speak for Dygz, I can at least repeat on his behalf that all he cares about is that the player doesn't do it often enough for there to be an issue. I don't think I've ever seen Dygz have even an implied complaint about 'dropping mats because he died while green', since his intention was to always be green.
Its being talked about in multiple examples not just one.
The moment you have a way to do something without being corrupted means it happens more often. Based on how successful this is will increase the amount of players that do it + frequency.
A more effective way would be after the tank pulled mobs on itself for their team to tank and do the content. The other team pulls mobs on the healer and de-agrros from themselves. And you do some dps on the whole party a few hits at a time until they are 5-10%ish whatever the point would be where a mob can kill them in one hit. (you played BDO so you know about this stuff).
Its expected some of them might live and run away (though if they stay you make sure they keep being low so mobs kill them if they try to pick up their allies loot). Then you run if there is too many mobs or clean them up and pick up all the loot that was killed with no players having gone corrupted.
Then you just follow the same pattern whenever you see anyone group, or keep doing this until the group you want dies to mobs or leaves.
It looks like it’s quarterly health bars confirmed and probably how it’s going to stay
It honestly just takes something away from the whole experience.
how? if oyu pvp someone it takes 3 nukes to kill that person, next time you pvp them, or pvp anothe rperson using the same class, same gear and same level, it will take 3 nukes to kill that person. the amount of damage you do is not important, the amount of hits you need is important.
you will still be able to see their nameplates degrading so you will know how many more hits you need to kill them, based on their degradation rate form your previous hits. you just wanna see if they are low so you dont waste a cooldown, which is intended as steven explained during the last caravan stream. you have to judge whether you want to use a powerful skill on someone who is dying or not.
also, there isnt any evidence that you will play better because you can see the enemy hp. if you look at league or dota for example, the majority of players use their ultimate when their enemy is at 1 health instead of using a basic skill XD that is extremely common among players who arent pro.
just because you can see the enemy hp doesnt mean you will automatically make better choices.
What do you mean how? I push a button and the game doesn't show me what happens to my target. Eventually when I push enough buttons the game will vaguely update me about what happened, but not entirely because it's important that I not know precisely what's happening when its happening. Explain the appeal of that too me.
Now if I where to say study wiki pages and other online tools to know how much Hp a person should have at all levels and for all classes, I could then, with enough study and time, know about how much hp the person I'm fighting should have. And if I then track all of the damage for all the people I'm fighting in my head (along with all the damage all of my group mates are doing to all of their targets), I should then have a vague idea of what is happening on the battle field at any given time. Roughly...
Sectioned HP bars give a rough idea, but it only mitigates the problem, doesn't solve it. And if they section it to 1/8th or 1/16th, whats the point of having the sections?
The game showed you you missed or you hit them for whatever amount of dmg. So it shows you what is happening to your target.
The only argument you are making is you want to know when someone is almost dead to throw all your strongest CDs at them to confirm, stun, etc.
People here are making a argument they don't want to you show those stats because people will view the hp and try to feed someone to a mob to avoid corruption punishment,
Nikr made a point about knowledge is skill and understanding, and you are effectively complaining about needing to use that element of skill and don't want to do it.
Either way based on the loot in this game that drops, things will be tested in A2 I'm sure things will stay as they are. I hope the same people don't complain about being fed to mobs. Personally im for elements being more harsh in the corruption system so if you try to feed someone to mobs you end up corrupted if you have done significant dmg when they died.
Also the HP bar should only update when you hit them for a slight time before being unknown again to the player. Being tab locked to a player target should show you no information until you hit them and then fade away in a second.
Too reductive and false. If you want open world pvp you are going to have deal with open world pvp.
Hiding info about your status is a system you are familiar with and you see ways you came game it to your benefit. It's creates a moat between you and anyone else that doesn't play as much as you. Why do you require that moat?
None of you have described how this gives a better game experience. I don't think you can.
To make this clear, you have no issue if i feed you to mobs multiple times and get your loot without being corrupted because that is pvp?
Sounds good, you still didn't answer the question. Can you?
How does this create a better game experience?
How it makes a better experience has already been answered already by Nikr. I'm trying to figure out the root of the issue.
So it sounds good for players to bypass corruption and get players killed and be able to get their loot since it is just pvp. That is fair to have your opinion be like that since everyone is entitled to their own desires and choices.
To go on, are you of mine set general people in the game will be fine with people using mobs to kill them and accept it worth complaining. Meaning it is just part of the game from a general players perspective. So if Dygz's or Azherae group had mobs pulled on them and were killed they wouldn't have any issues? Or if other players did have issues you would tell them that is how the game works?
So no, you can't answer the question
its been answered already you don't like the answer though so I'm trying to figure out your mind set as it would get better questions asked or just accept the differences of desires for the game.
So, if that is what the issue with the scenario you have suggested actually is, then the scenario I have suggested should be just as big of an issue.
Again, the issue is full avoidance of the corruption threat. In your situation a person gets corrupted.
Corruption is only a penalty if it is on a character you have invested in. The more investment you have in that character, the more corruption is a penalty.
Your entire premise here is that an "attacker" could give their character a very specific build that gives them lower damaging abilities, and also gives them greater visibility of an enemies HP (16 or 18 bubbles instead of 1/4).
Taking all of this dictates that the character in question here be less effective in regular PvP and PvE than it could otherwise be - you are investing an entire character in to being able to do this thing. Essentially, you are giving yourself a permanant penalty in order to be able to sometimes potentially kill a kind of shit player without then taking a second penalty. This is why it is so unlikely to ever happen other than in a targeted scenario.
The thing is, it's the same thing as a group of friends investing in a throw away character to be a corruption sponge. Both are simply an investment in something that is less than ideal in order to achieve a singular goal.
Now, to be clear, both scenarios are equally unlikely to be an actual issue in the game - but both are indeed equal issues should they both present themselves.
In harping on about the corruption applying in one scenario but not the other, you are creating the scenario where the only appropriate penalty for the attacker in your scenario is corruption. Either that is the case, or corruption is just a penalty and other penalties also exist.
Again, the "reward" is just annoying people. Keeping someone from enjoying the game is one of the biggest and best ways to annoy that someone. Keeping a player at low hp in a location with mobs would most likely prevent that player from touching those mobs, which is the goal of the griefer. There's no real work involved here.
Right, so again, corruption doesn't matter. If you are looking at it from the victims perspective, they don't care about that corruption, they care that they were annoyed.
And, I mean, if someone is purposely taking a worse spec on their character, and is still in a position to be able to hold someone at low HP, that person is in a position to do what ever the fuck they want anyway. Then annoying a single player is probably the best thing the game as a whole could hope for from that player.
What I don't get is why you think someone putting all of that effort in to annoying a player in this manner wouldn't be able to perform basic math. I mean, all you need to do is attack a player you are confident is at full health and seem to run off (remember, we are talking about shit players here). Watch how long it takes before they attack a mob, and you know that is how long it takes their regen to make up the amount of damage of that ability. Thus, once they finish a fight and start their regen before the next, simply use that ability that often, and they will remain at about that same HP level.
No need for indicators or anything. In fact, since this specific method doesn't need a specific build, I would argue that my method in a game without HP bars is less effort than your method with them, and so is actually more likely to happen (they are both unlikely to happen).
Which still removes hp bars for pvp, which is what we are arguing against
Uhmm... wut?
Combatant = flagged = purple = visible HP
Corrupt = red = visible HP
If you are not flagged, YOUR HP can't be seen. If your enemy is not flagged, his HP can't be seen (most likely full by default)
This way, it becomes almost unexploitable. If you choose to fight back or participate in PvP, you see HP bars of the others because they are flagged. If you don't want to fight back, you see the HP of your attackers, but they can't see yours. And if you attack someone first, their HP becomes visible the moment they flag
Which still removes hp bars for pvp, which is what we are arguing against
Uhmm... wut?
Combatant = flagged = purple = visible HP
Corrupt = red = visible HP
If you are not flagged, YOUR HP can't be seen. If your enemy is not flagged, his HP can't be seen (most likely full by default)
This way, it becomes almost unexploitable. If you choose to fight back or participate in PvP, you see HP bars of the others because they are flagged. If you don't want to fight back, you see the HP of your attackers, but they can't see yours. And if you attack someone first, their HP becomes visible the moment they flag
Perfect, if we are back to seeing hp bars during pvp that doesn't involve the flagging system then amazing.
Perfect, if we are back to seeing hp bars during pvp that doesn't involve the flagging system then amazing.
Yes, that's exactly it. Those who want to see HP bars during PvP will still see them. Those who want to harass players who don't to fight back won't be able to do it without risk.
Corrupted/Combatant player HP is visible, nonCombatant player HP isn't.
6 pages later and finally I can see a decent alternative option that can satisfy both sides
Well, since we're already addressing talking points that should have been brought up much earlier...I'm a healer main. How am I supposed to support allies who aren't directly affiliated with me, if I can't see a difference between them being at 1% HP or 99% - perhaps even 100%, though there might be exceptions for that.
Well, since we're already addressing talking points that should have been brought up much earlier...I'm a healer main. How am I supposed to support allies who aren't directly affiliated with me, if I can't see a difference between them being at 1% HP or 99% - perhaps even 100%?
Invite them to your group/raid obviously?
Or maybe they can make HP bars of guild/alliance members visible
Comments
And.... Therefor I cant like less or?
The two scenarios are literally the same from the perspective of not wanting PK'ers to go unpunished. There may well be differences in the two scenarios, but when looked at from that specific perspective, there are no differences.
So, if that is what the issue with the scenario you have suggested actually is, then the scenario I have suggested should be just as big of an issue. Perhaps, perhaps not.
You are making assumptions that we have no immediate reason to assume to support your argument here.
We don't know how BH'ers rewards work at all - and even if that were the case, it would take the group I have with me but a few seconds to kill out dedicated PK player should we spot a BH nearby (or even if we don't, just to get rid of the corruption). The reason it would need to be someone specific is because the amount of work involved for the reward (whether in game rewards of grief caused to other players) is much higher than other methods that are all perfectly valid within the game.
I mean, if you bad enough at the game to die to this, and you are going to get upset that someone killed you and didn't get corruption, it isn't the corruption part that you are complaining about. Since we have already established that any "victim" of this is essentially a bad player, it isn't as if they would have the means to retaliate regardless of the corruption state of the attacker.
As such, the corruption is a non-factor to them. It is only a factor to the attacker - at which point see my above scenario.
If your party just holds the victim at a low hp w/o killing him - then the situations are similar, but the difference would be the sheer power lvl difference. At which point we come back to the lvl50vslvl20 situation that I brought up to Laetitian, where I said that other players in the vicinity are likely to help the victim, because people dislike when someone strong is abusing someone way weaker (but as I said in a different comment, help doesn't always come). And if there's a whole party going around harassing people, that means that there's a guild/node lvl issue going on.
Which means that the corruption penalty still applied and that you'll need to deal with its consequences.
Again, the "reward" is just annoying people. Keeping someone from enjoying the game is one of the biggest and best ways to annoy that someone. Keeping a player at low hp in a location with mobs would most likely prevent that player from touching those mobs, which is the goal of the griefer. There's no real work involved here.
Again, the issue here is the ease of avoidance of the corruption penalty risk. If the attacker doesn't know how hard he's hitting the victim - he'll either not hit the victim as much or might make a mistake and become corrupted.
The bad player victim might be able to fight their weak mobs at roughly half hp, but might be too afraid to fight them at <25%. And with Steven saying that we might get 1/6 or even 1/8 indicators - the griefers would 100% go down the path that leads to this upgrade, which means that the victims will in fact be even lower than at 25% hp, which in turn definitely prevents them from fighting any mobs.
I'll give an example from L2. My group was just messing around with some people near a TP spawn to a valuable mob location. We'd do a hit against randos from time to time simply to stay flagged, because it was a often frequented pvp location for strong players. Usually we'd use the weakest abilities of our characters, but sometimes we'd use a normal one.
And once one of my mages used his normal ability on a newly TPed random. And at the same time my healer's flag was dropping so he decided to use his atk on the same random as well at almost the same time. But it just so happened that the random was relatively weak and the mage had a crit. So the healer, even with his super weak atk (last upgrade of which was at lvl20, while he was lvl80), PKed the random dude. And after that moment this healer was jokingly called the strongest healer on the server because he managed to PK another person with his weakest ability (healers in L2 pretty much do 0 dmg, which is why this was a funny moment).
It was a private server, so due to higher rates the corruption was cleared pretty fast, but this was just an example of a player not knowing that even their weakest atk could get them in trouble, purely because L2 didn't have hp indicators.
I give this example because I want the same to happen to griefers, except AoC's corruption-related risks are way higher than what we had on that L2 server, so the griefer would be hit much harder. Seeing hp makes the possibility of that situation waaaay smaller and much more controllable.
It honestly just takes something away from the whole experience.
how? if oyu pvp someone it takes 3 nukes to kill that person, next time you pvp them, or pvp anothe rperson using the same class, same gear and same level, it will take 3 nukes to kill that person. the amount of damage you do is not important, the amount of hits you need is important.
you will still be able to see their nameplates degrading so you will know how many more hits you need to kill them, based on their degradation rate form your previous hits. you just wanna see if they are low so you dont waste a cooldown, which is intended as steven explained during the last caravan stream. you have to judge whether you want to use a powerful skill on someone who is dying or not.
also, there isnt any evidence that you will play better because you can see the enemy hp. if you look at league or dota for example, the majority of players use their ultimate when their enemy is at 1 health instead of using a basic skill XD that is extremely common among players who arent pro.
just because you can see the enemy hp doesnt mean you will automatically make better choices.
No, this would imply that Passives are weak.
Gear, level, and class are nowhere near enough to tell you anything. The entire MOBA genre is based on this concept (if you treat defensive items as passives, not 'gear').
What do you mean how? I push a button and the game doesn't show me what happens to my target. Eventually when I push enough buttons the game will vaguely update me about what happened, but not entirely because it's important that I not know precisely what's happening when its happening. Explain the appeal of that too me.
Now if I where to say study wiki pages and other online tools to know how much Hp a person should have at all levels and for all classes, I could then, with enough study and time, know about how much hp the person I'm fighting should have. And if I then track all of the damage for all the people I'm fighting in my head (along with all the damage all of my group mates are doing to all of their targets), I should then have a vague idea of what is happening on the battle field at any given time. Roughly...
Sectioned HP bars give a rough idea, but it only mitigates the problem, doesn't solve it. And if they section it to 1/8th or 1/16th, whats the point of having the sections?
The game showed you you missed or you hit them for whatever amount of dmg. So it shows you what is happening to your target.
The only argument you are making is you want to know when someone is almost dead to throw all your strongest CDs at them to confirm, stun, etc.
People here are making a argument they don't want to you show those stats because people will view the hp and try to feed someone to a mob to avoid corruption punishment,
Nikr made a point about knowledge is skill and understanding, and you are effectively complaining about needing to use that element of skill and don't want to do it.
Either way based on the loot in this game that drops, things will be tested in A2 I'm sure things will stay as they are. I hope the same people don't complain about being fed to mobs. Personally im for elements being more harsh in the corruption system so if you try to feed someone to mobs you end up corrupted if you have done significant dmg when they died.
Also the HP bar should only update when you hit them for a slight time before being unknown again to the player. Being tab locked to a player target should show you no information until you hit them and then fade away in a second.
Is not abuse of the system. It is PvP.
The game mechanic allows this behavior so it is not griefing.
When we think about 'what is griefing?' Griefing isn't necessarily the realization of risk. Risk is a healthy thing. Risk makes us value reward. Without risk we would not pursue certain achievements, because anybody could achieve them. Risk makes us have a sense of thrill, or have some sense of anxiety; and those are all emotional responses that get elicited when risk is present. So, risk isn't a bad thing. We like risk, not just in PvP but in PvE as well: when you can't always predict the environment or encounter you are part of, risk is something like 'Ah, I've never seen this boss do that before.' or these adds came at an ill-placed time, there's a trap here that I didn't experience before. There's a lot of elements that risk introduces that keep gameplay less stale; that keep it more dynamic; that introduce environments where the unexpected can occur. That is a good thing. Now the question is, when risk becomes something that doesn't stop other players from impacting your gameplay in a negative and harassing and repetitive manner. The motivation to do that action is less about their personal advancement and more about impacting your gameplay, because when they elicit the response of anger or rage from the player, they feel a sense of accomplishment. That in my opinion is what griefing is. It is outside of the expectation of the gameplay behavior that is communicated in the design philosophy.[1] – Steven Sharif
Players that work outside of the game design to grief or harass other players are actionable by customer services.[1]
that number was a simple example...
lol what? if you use fear and you land it, you can see your opponent running away or in circles, if you miss, you will notice because they will keep doing what they were doing. same with stuns or any cc. if you do damage, you will see the damage numbers, you might even get a particle effect or mini animation (maybe a flinch animation or something), you can see the nameplates deteriorating, etc.
be honest. its ok to ay it, no shame. you wanna see their hp to be able to judge their strength and avoid fights.
Too reductive and false. If you want open world pvp you are going to have deal with open world pvp.
Hiding info about your status is a system you are familiar with and you see ways you came game it to your benefit. It's creates a moat between you and anyone else that doesn't play as much as you. Why do you require that moat?
None of you have described how this gives a better game experience. I don't think you can.
To make this clear, you have no issue if i feed you to mobs multiple times and get your loot without being corrupted because that is pvp?
Sounds good, you still didn't answer the question. Can you?
How does this create a better game experience?
How it makes a better experience has already been answered already by Nikr. I'm trying to figure out the root of the issue.
So it sounds good for players to bypass corruption and get players killed and be able to get their loot since it is just pvp. That is fair to have your opinion be like that since everyone is entitled to their own desires and choices.
To go on, are you of mine set general people in the game will be fine with people using mobs to kill them and accept it worth complaining. Meaning it is just part of the game from a general players perspective. So if Dygz's or Azherae group had mobs pulled on them and were killed they wouldn't have any issues? Or if other players did have issues you would tell them that is how the game works?
So no, you can't answer the question
Why do you still bring my name into these things as if I'm a PvE-first player?
Of course we don't have problems if we have mobs pulled on us, and that's not even the situation being talked about here. We're talking about 'my Tank is fighting mobs and someone attacks the tank and tries to keep him low so that I have to heal him and then tries to bring me down low the moment before the mob turns to me'.
Of course 'that's how the game works'. Except that the moment you touch my Paladin he reacts and we take up a mob-dependent defense 'formation'. Because that's how the game works.
And while I don't aim to speak for Dygz, I can at least repeat on his behalf that all he cares about is that the player doesn't do it often enough for there to be an issue. I don't think I've ever seen Dygz have even an implied complaint about 'dropping mats because he died while green', since his intention was to always be green.
Its being talked about in multiple examples not just one.
The moment you have a way to do something without being corrupted means it happens more often. Based on how successful this is will increase the amount of players that do it + frequency.
A more effective way would be after the tank pulled mobs on itself for their team to tank and do the content. The other team pulls mobs on the healer and de-agrros from themselves. And you do some dps on the whole party a few hits at a time until they are 5-10%ish whatever the point would be where a mob can kill them in one hit. (you played BDO so you know about this stuff).
Its expected some of them might live and run away (though if they stay you make sure they keep being low so mobs kill them if they try to pick up their allies loot). Then you run if there is too many mobs or clean them up and pick up all the loot that was killed with no players having gone corrupted.
Then you just follow the same pattern whenever you see anyone group, or keep doing this until the group you want dies to mobs or leaves.
its been answered already you don't like the answer though so I'm trying to figure out your mind set as it would get better questions asked or just accept the differences of desires for the game.
Corrupted/Combatant player HP is visible, nonCombatant player HP isn't.
Your entire premise here is that an "attacker" could give their character a very specific build that gives them lower damaging abilities, and also gives them greater visibility of an enemies HP (16 or 18 bubbles instead of 1/4).
Taking all of this dictates that the character in question here be less effective in regular PvP and PvE than it could otherwise be - you are investing an entire character in to being able to do this thing. Essentially, you are giving yourself a permanant penalty in order to be able to sometimes potentially kill a kind of shit player without then taking a second penalty. This is why it is so unlikely to ever happen other than in a targeted scenario.
The thing is, it's the same thing as a group of friends investing in a throw away character to be a corruption sponge. Both are simply an investment in something that is less than ideal in order to achieve a singular goal.
Now, to be clear, both scenarios are equally unlikely to be an actual issue in the game - but both are indeed equal issues should they both present themselves.
In harping on about the corruption applying in one scenario but not the other, you are creating the scenario where the only appropriate penalty for the attacker in your scenario is corruption. Either that is the case, or corruption is just a penalty and other penalties also exist.
Right, so again, corruption doesn't matter. If you are looking at it from the victims perspective, they don't care about that corruption, they care that they were annoyed.
And, I mean, if someone is purposely taking a worse spec on their character, and is still in a position to be able to hold someone at low HP, that person is in a position to do what ever the fuck they want anyway. Then annoying a single player is probably the best thing the game as a whole could hope for from that player.
What I don't get is why you think someone putting all of that effort in to annoying a player in this manner wouldn't be able to perform basic math. I mean, all you need to do is attack a player you are confident is at full health and seem to run off (remember, we are talking about shit players here). Watch how long it takes before they attack a mob, and you know that is how long it takes their regen to make up the amount of damage of that ability. Thus, once they finish a fight and start their regen before the next, simply use that ability that often, and they will remain at about that same HP level.
No need for indicators or anything. In fact, since this specific method doesn't need a specific build, I would argue that my method in a game without HP bars is less effort than your method with them, and so is actually more likely to happen (they are both unlikely to happen).
6 pages later and finally I can see a decent alternative option that can satisfy both sides
Which still removes hp bars for pvp, which is what we are arguing against
Uhmm... wut?
Combatant = flagged = purple = visible HP
Corrupt = red = visible HP
If you are not flagged, YOUR HP can't be seen. If your enemy is not flagged, his HP can't be seen (most likely full by default)
This way, it becomes almost unexploitable. If you choose to fight back or participate in PvP, you see HP bars of the others because they are flagged. If you don't want to fight back, you see the HP of your attackers, but they can't see yours. And if you attack someone first, their HP becomes visible the moment they flag
Perfect, if we are back to seeing hp bars during pvp that doesn't involve the flagging system then amazing.
Yes, that's exactly it. Those who want to see HP bars during PvP will still see them. Those who want to harass players who don't to fight back won't be able to do it without risk.
Invite them to your group/raid obviously?
Or maybe they can make HP bars of guild/alliance members visible