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Fighters are vampires? (Please read this)

Hey! I loved just about everything that the team has done with the fighter archetype but one thing. Since when has the mmo community agreed that fighters are also vampires? Why is it that blood heals a fighter/warrior/beserker?

Solution 1: Instead of healing with blood (vampirism) how about incorporating "Adrenaline". Adrenaline could be the ability to replace the vampiric ability. Instead of healing for a smaller portion, the fighter could mitigate damage (pain) for a short period of time and that mitigation could be equal to the healing of the vampiric ability.

Solution 2: Why not just increase the HP pool size of a fighter so that it doesn’t affect the class fantasy? Is a fighter healing really a good choice? Again, just make their HP pool bigger equivalent to the guesstimated amount of healing done from vampiric blood drinking or whatever. So if the fighter were to heal for 400hp, why not just increase the fighter's hp by around that much? The fighter wouldn't be a tank, it would still be a fighter but slightly more beefy.



Thanks for reading this. The animations look smooth and sick. The leap a bit cheesy, but cool. The exert ability and stances are amazing concepts. Love just about everything except what was mentioned above.
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    AszkalonAszkalon Member
    The Life-giving(draining?) kind of Abilities, am i right ? :D

    I am a tiiiny bit reminded of the Blood Deathknight from World of WoW-Token Craft. :trollface:
    jcildf8jglv5.png
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    Aszkalon wrote: »
    The Life-giving(draining?) kind of Abilities, am i right ? :D

    I am a tiiiny bit reminded of the Blood Deathknight from World of WoW-Token Craft. :trollface:

    Yes. exactly that. :(
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    NiKrNiKr Member
    Why couldn't they have vampiric qualities? All archetypes in Ashes have "The Essence". So all Intrepid need to do is say "fighters learned how to use their target's blood (filled with The Essence) to heal their own wounds".
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/The_Essence
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    AszkalonAszkalon Member
    NiKr wrote: »
    Why couldn't they have vampiric qualities? All archetypes in Ashes have "The Essence". So all Intrepid need to do is say "fighters learned how to use their target's blood (filled with The Essence) to heal their own wounds".
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/The_Essence

    Actually i thought it quite the same. Like - duuuuhhh "Essence". :D

    They somehow use the Essence to gain some healing because of the Damage they inflict onto something/someone else.

    But i just can not think of any way to describe it, without making it sound sinister and dark. :D
    jcildf8jglv5.png
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    NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited April 3
    All archetypes are mana-using wizards. Fighters happen to be blood wizards with a lot of mobility and sometimes a big sword :smile:

    I am ok with the blood theme, really. I wish the wound effect looks a little different though.
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    HybridSRHybridSR Member
    Don't mind the leeching part, just don't think fighters are balanced at ALL but we're not in the balance phase yet, so who cares?
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    DiamahtDiamaht Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    Hey! I loved just about everything that the team has done with the fighter archetype but one thing. Since when has the mmo community agreed that fighters are also vampires? Why is it that blood heals a fighter/warrior/beserker?

    Solution 1: Instead of healing with blood (vampirism) how about incorporating "Adrenaline". Adrenaline could be the ability to replace the vampiric ability. Instead of healing for a smaller portion, the fighter could mitigate damage (pain) for a short period of time and that mitigation could be equal to the healing of the vampiric ability.

    Solution 2: Why not just increase the HP pool size of a fighter so that it doesn’t affect the class fantasy? Is a fighter healing really a good choice? Again, just make their HP pool bigger equivalent to the guesstimated amount of healing done from vampiric blood drinking or whatever. So if the fighter were to heal for 400hp, why not just increase the fighter's hp by around that much? The fighter wouldn't be a tank, it would still be a fighter but slightly more beefy.



    Thanks for reading this. The animations look smooth and sick. The leap a bit cheesy, but cool. The exert ability and stances are amazing concepts. Love just about everything except what was mentioned above.

    Is it the self healing, or is it the vampire aesthetic that you don't like?

    The self healing is fine, lots of mmos have tanks that self heal to a degree. WoW, GW2, EQ2, SWG (with multispecing), Every space game has shield regen, FFXIV, SWTOR, Vanguard. Those are off the top of my head.
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    Diamaht wrote: »
    Hey! I loved just about everything that the team has done with the fighter archetype but one thing. Since when has the mmo community agreed that fighters are also vampires? Why is it that blood heals a fighter/warrior/beserker?

    Solution 1: Instead of healing with blood (vampirism) how about incorporating "Adrenaline". Adrenaline could be the ability to replace the vampiric ability. Instead of healing for a smaller portion, the fighter could mitigate damage (pain) for a short period of time and that mitigation could be equal to the healing of the vampiric ability.

    Solution 2: Why not just increase the HP pool size of a fighter so that it doesn’t affect the class fantasy? Is a fighter healing really a good choice? Again, just make their HP pool bigger equivalent to the guesstimated amount of healing done from vampiric blood drinking or whatever. So if the fighter were to heal for 400hp, why not just increase the fighter's hp by around that much? The fighter wouldn't be a tank, it would still be a fighter but slightly more beefy.



    Thanks for reading this. The animations look smooth and sick. The leap a bit cheesy, but cool. The exert ability and stances are amazing concepts. Love just about everything except what was mentioned above.

    Is it the self healing, or is it the vampire aesthetic that you don't like?

    The self healing is fine, lots of mmos have tanks that self heal to a degree. WoW, GW2, EQ2, SWG (with multispecing), Every space game has shield regen, FFXIV, SWTOR, Vanguard. Those are off the top of my head.

    It's a self healing fighter that bugs me. I know many mmo's before this one has used vampirism as a warrior trope, but this mmorpg is an "ambitious project". This mmo is taking bits and pieces from other mmos to be it's own thing. it's own spin and unique quality.
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    It's a self healing fighter that bugs me. I know many mmo's before this one has used vampirism as a warrior trope, but this mmorpg is an "ambitious project". This mmo is taking bits and pieces from other mmos to be it's own thing. it's own spin and unique quality.

    Would you instead accept if Ashes made a Form of Recovery? Have it stop momentum generation and heal the fighter based on how much momentum they have saved up. It would fit more with the current fighter aesthetic and still have some healing.

    A note for class fantasy is everyone is technically a mage and using mana. Ashes isn't the typical warrior archetype when it comes to warriors, so higher magic abilities are in their grasp.
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    Mag7spyMag7spy Member
    edited April 4
    Have you thought of not playing a fighter or not specing in that ability and focusing your ability points on other skills?

    Seems like a pretty easily solution to me.
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    FantmxFantmx Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    One could assume there is lore all are unaware of.
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    NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Diamaht wrote: »
    Hey! I loved just about everything that the team has done with the fighter archetype but one thing. Since when has the mmo community agreed that fighters are also vampires? Why is it that blood heals a fighter/warrior/beserker?

    Solution 1: Instead of healing with blood (vampirism) how about incorporating "Adrenaline". Adrenaline could be the ability to replace the vampiric ability. Instead of healing for a smaller portion, the fighter could mitigate damage (pain) for a short period of time and that mitigation could be equal to the healing of the vampiric ability.

    Solution 2: Why not just increase the HP pool size of a fighter so that it doesn’t affect the class fantasy? Is a fighter healing really a good choice? Again, just make their HP pool bigger equivalent to the guesstimated amount of healing done from vampiric blood drinking or whatever. So if the fighter were to heal for 400hp, why not just increase the fighter's hp by around that much? The fighter wouldn't be a tank, it would still be a fighter but slightly more beefy.



    Thanks for reading this. The animations look smooth and sick. The leap a bit cheesy, but cool. The exert ability and stances are amazing concepts. Love just about everything except what was mentioned above.

    Is it the self healing, or is it the vampire aesthetic that you don't like?

    The self healing is fine, lots of mmos have tanks that self heal to a degree. WoW, GW2, EQ2, SWG (with multispecing), Every space game has shield regen, FFXIV, SWTOR, Vanguard. Those are off the top of my head.

    It's a self healing fighter that bugs me.
    I mean, this just describes a Paladin to me.
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    koltovince wrote: »

    It's a self healing fighter that bugs me. I know many mmo's before this one has used vampirism as a warrior trope, but this mmorpg is an "ambitious project". This mmo is taking bits and pieces from other mmos to be it's own thing. it's own spin and unique quality.

    Would you instead accept if Ashes made a Form of Recovery? Have it stop momentum generation and heal the fighter based on how much momentum they have saved up. It would fit more with the current fighter aesthetic and still have some healing.

    A note for class fantasy is everyone is technically a mage and using mana. Ashes isn't the typical warrior archetype when it comes to warriors, so higher magic abilities are in their grasp.

    I'm learning this from the community. That everyone is a mage to some degree, or a spirit warrior so to speak. I still like the idea of Adrenaline. mitigation through adrenaline is more warrior/fighter archtype than healing. If a fighter wants to have healing they could just have necromancer, cleric, bard, etc as the secondary archtype and keep the fighter a pure fighter.
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    Mag7spyMag7spy Member
    koltovince wrote: »

    It's a self healing fighter that bugs me. I know many mmo's before this one has used vampirism as a warrior trope, but this mmorpg is an "ambitious project". This mmo is taking bits and pieces from other mmos to be it's own thing. it's own spin and unique quality.

    Would you instead accept if Ashes made a Form of Recovery? Have it stop momentum generation and heal the fighter based on how much momentum they have saved up. It would fit more with the current fighter aesthetic and still have some healing.

    A note for class fantasy is everyone is technically a mage and using mana. Ashes isn't the typical warrior archetype when it comes to warriors, so higher magic abilities are in their grasp.

    I'm learning this from the community. That everyone is a mage to some degree, or a spirit warrior so to speak. I still like the idea of Adrenaline. mitigation through adrenaline is more warrior/fighter archtype than healing. If a fighter wants to have healing they could just have necromancer, cleric, bard, etc as the secondary archtype and keep the fighter a pure fighter.

    Don't spec a skill you don't want???
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    Mag7spy wrote: »
    koltovince wrote: »

    It's a self healing fighter that bugs me. I know many mmo's before this one has used vampirism as a warrior trope, but this mmorpg is an "ambitious project". This mmo is taking bits and pieces from other mmos to be it's own thing. it's own spin and unique quality.

    Would you instead accept if Ashes made a Form of Recovery? Have it stop momentum generation and heal the fighter based on how much momentum they have saved up. It would fit more with the current fighter aesthetic and still have some healing.

    A note for class fantasy is everyone is technically a mage and using mana. Ashes isn't the typical warrior archetype when it comes to warriors, so higher magic abilities are in their grasp.

    I'm learning this from the community. That everyone is a mage to some degree, or a spirit warrior so to speak. I still like the idea of Adrenaline. mitigation through adrenaline is more warrior/fighter archtype than healing. If a fighter wants to have healing they could just have necromancer, cleric, bard, etc as the secondary archtype and keep the fighter a pure fighter.

    Don't spec a skill you don't want???

    MMO's don't work like that. We all know this, unless you're new. There will be a required spells and abilities for pve and pvp for a class to function.
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    SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I don't think fighter is a vampire. It's more like a Blood Knight or Dark Templar.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
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    Songcaller wrote: »
    I don't think fighter is a vampire. It's more like a Blood Knight or Dark Templar.

    yeah, it's just unfortunate that not one single mmorpg ever made can make a true fighter.
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    Mag7spyMag7spy Member
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    koltovince wrote: »

    It's a self healing fighter that bugs me. I know many mmo's before this one has used vampirism as a warrior trope, but this mmorpg is an "ambitious project". This mmo is taking bits and pieces from other mmos to be it's own thing. it's own spin and unique quality.

    Would you instead accept if Ashes made a Form of Recovery? Have it stop momentum generation and heal the fighter based on how much momentum they have saved up. It would fit more with the current fighter aesthetic and still have some healing.

    A note for class fantasy is everyone is technically a mage and using mana. Ashes isn't the typical warrior archetype when it comes to warriors, so higher magic abilities are in their grasp.

    I'm learning this from the community. That everyone is a mage to some degree, or a spirit warrior so to speak. I still like the idea of Adrenaline. mitigation through adrenaline is more warrior/fighter archtype than healing. If a fighter wants to have healing they could just have necromancer, cleric, bard, etc as the secondary archtype and keep the fighter a pure fighter.

    Don't spec a skill you don't want???

    MMO's don't work like that. We all know this, unless you're new. There will be a required spells and abilities for pve and pvp for a class to function.

    You are giving me the vibe that you are new, mmorpgs literally work like this you don't' get all skills... Even if we go by the worse mmorpg example being new world you still don't have access to all skills.

    You complaining about one move isn't really warranted for you to tell them to change the class they are making when you can pick other skills. Not every single part of a class is going to be something you like everyone has their own taste.

    I still don't know how you can see a skill tree and think you don't have choice in your build.

    1cgaov4aqo67.png

    I'll say it again if u don't like the skill don't invest into it.
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    MyosotysMyosotys Member
    edited April 4
    Hey! I loved just about everything that the team has done with the fighter archetype but one thing. Since when has the mmo community agreed that fighters are also vampires? Why is it that blood heals a fighter/warrior/beserker?

    Solution 1: Instead of healing with blood (vampirism) how about incorporating "Adrenaline". Adrenaline could be the ability to replace the vampiric ability. Instead of healing for a smaller portion, the fighter could mitigate damage (pain) for a short period of time and that mitigation could be equal to the healing of the vampiric ability.

    Solution 2: Why not just increase the HP pool size of a fighter so that it doesn’t affect the class fantasy? Is a fighter healing really a good choice? Again, just make their HP pool bigger equivalent to the guesstimated amount of healing done from vampiric blood drinking or whatever. So if the fighter were to heal for 400hp, why not just increase the fighter's hp by around that much? The fighter wouldn't be a tank, it would still be a fighter but slightly more beefy.

    Thanks for reading this. The animations look smooth and sick. The leap a bit cheesy, but cool. The exert ability and stances are amazing concepts. Love just about everything except what was mentioned above.

    Blood skills are part of the imagination of the work's creators. At some point, you can criticize the fantasy work, but you can't ask for it to be changed.
    Unless it's purely a gameplay issue? In that case, you'd have to show that the skills linked to blood are OP or are too weak or poorly done.

    If it's just a question of conformity with your imagination, I can understand that too, but it's becoming a never-ending debate.

    After that, we can judge that a displeasing story element impacts immersion and therefore gameplay.

    This is the case for the "Tank" archetype. But that's no big deal )

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    DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Fighters have a path for Blood Magic. That's not the same thing as a Vampire.
    If that path originated with Kaivek Orcs, there should not be much surprise that blood magic might be included in the teaching of those Skills.
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    DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited April 4
    I still like the idea of Adrenaline. mitigation through adrenaline is more warrior/fighter archtype than healing. If a fighter wants to have healing they could just have necromancer, cleric, bard, etc as the secondary archtype and keep the fighter a pure fighter.
    Which cultural perspective dictates that it's not fitting for Fighters to have a training path for Blood Magic?
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    Mag7spy wrote: »
    I'll say it again if u don't like the skill don't invest into it.

    I think they mean that there are usually meta skills that need to be used in order to be effective within a given class. If you're not using those particular skills, then you're not playing efficiently and are at a disadvantage.
    If this happens to be one of those, then simply not investing into it isn't really much of an option.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
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    SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    We don't know how augments will affect the skill effects.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
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    Hey! I loved just about everything that the team has done with the fighter archetype but one thing. Since when has the mmo community agreed that fighters are also vampires? Why is it that blood heals a fighter/warrior/beserker?

    They're drinking the blood of their enemies! It's a classic.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
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    DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    daveywavey wrote: »
    I think they mean that there are usually meta skills that need to be used in order to be effective within a given class. If you're not using those particular skills, then you're not playing efficiently and are at a disadvantage.
    If this happens to be one of those, then simply not investing into it isn't really much of an option.
    Sheep follow METAs. Yes.
    I think that was the point.
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    SathragoSathrago Member

    Hey! I loved just about everything that the team has done with the fighter archetype but one thing. Since when has the mmo community agreed that fighters are also vampires? Why is it that blood heals a fighter/warrior/beserker?

    Solution 1: Instead of healing with blood (vampirism) how about incorporating "Adrenaline". Adrenaline could be the ability to replace the vampiric ability. Instead of healing for a smaller portion, the fighter could mitigate damage (pain) for a short period of time and that mitigation could be equal to the healing of the vampiric ability.

    Solution 2: Why not just increase the HP pool size of a fighter so that it doesn’t affect the class fantasy? Is a fighter healing really a good choice? Again, just make their HP pool bigger equivalent to the guesstimated amount of healing done from vampiric blood drinking or whatever. So if the fighter were to heal for 400hp, why not just increase the fighter's hp by around that much? The fighter wouldn't be a tank, it would still be a fighter but slightly more beefy.



    Thanks for reading this. The animations look smooth and sick. The leap a bit cheesy, but cool. The exert ability and stances are amazing concepts. Love just about everything except what was mentioned above.

    These two replacements you came up with fundamentally change the balance required. The first one would be calculated on the damage taken, as well as reducing all damage taken during its duration. This is completely different from having to deal damage to gain some life back. As for the second, you just removed the skill completely. Not cool bro.

    The fighter having a skill that helps them sustain in combat based on the damage they do is what it is, and what the class needs. The fighter is a dps, and having their survivability tied to actually doing damage is much better than flat out making them tankier.

    I personally love lifesteal on my warrior characters and this is one of the reasons why I would actually play this archetype. What I would encourage you to do is wait for the secondary archetype customizations to come out and see what it does to the skill. Maybe classed with a cleric it summons a healing well at that location that pulses and also heals allies? Maybe with tank it reduces damage and shields you when it applies at full health? Maybe as a rogue it turns into a smoke screen that blinds enemies, and heals you while you stay inside.

    These are all made up on the spot, but my point should stand that if you really dont like the vampiric nature I fully expect archetypes to change it to something you might find more appealing.
    5000x1000px_Sathrago_Commission_RavenJuu.jpg?ex=661327bf&is=6600b2bf&hm=e6652ad4fec65a6fe03abd2e8111482acb29206799f1a336b09f703d4ff33c8b&
    Commissioned at https://fiverr.com/ravenjuu
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    DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited April 4
    Yes. And it's also possible that Racial, Social Org and Religion Augments will change the appearance of those Active Skills so that it has a different appearance than blood.
    Ranger, Cleric, Py'Rai, Nikua, Scholar Academy Augments.... might provide graphics/thematic appearances you like better.
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    SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I asked a lot for blood magic and I'm pleased I was heard. There's no way a class can satiate 100% of the hopefuls so the rest will have to tailor the experience to their preference via amalgamations.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
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    If I'm going to be bleeding whenever I move, I'd quite like a huge big red glowy warning to make me stop! Hahaha
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
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    SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    daveywavey wrote: »
    If I'm going to be bleeding whenever I move, I'd quite like a huge big red glowy warning to make me stop! Hahaha

    Yeah, rupture might not be so useful in pve unless you are kiting.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
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