Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
Any fighter build with self heal will almost certainly be on the good list. Any build without it is far less likely. That's just the reality.
I'm for self heal just from a quality of life standpoint. It's rough playing a tank when any life loss is permanent without pots. You wear down faster than any other class since you are required to be in damage range of all mobs at all times. It doesn't have to be even close to full heal, but some recovery built in without consumables makes the class more fun and versatile. It also extends your play time, before requiring a rest.
The OP is saying he'll have far fewer options if self healing exists at all and he's right. However, I'm really not interested in playing another tank that is slave to his hp bar and I'm not alone. Also not interested in how hard it will be to find tanks, when we need one, after the class is made less enjoyable.
Because the best fantasies are mostly realistic. If a fantasy world were to be mostly fantasy than it takes away from the value of the fantasies.
example: If everyone is special, no one is special.
basically.. the more realistic a fantasy world is and the more sprinkled the fantasy elements are outside of the races the more impactful the fantasy feels.
Obviously Yes.
I am curious about People who observe this Game since 2020 or before already and who seem so passionate about it. Would be kinda weird if these People change their Opinion in like the last Months or Weeks before Release or after that,
when they clearly invested like half a Decade or more waiting for the Game like for a Messiah that will save them all. (hahahahahahahah)
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Guild is " Balderag's Garde " for now. (German)
they arent realistic, they are believable. also, we are in verra and these are verrans, different than earth creatures with different capabilities, such as gaining life via magic while hitting enemies...vampires probably don't even exist in verra? o-o
everyone is "slave" to their own hp bar. Healers shouldn't be out healing damage so much so that they are unkillable, rogues deal damage and have cc + utility out the wazoo to mitigate their lack of hp, rangers kite to the best of their abilities because most often they are squishy, caster classes even more so because they are typically glass cannons. The recovery could be mitigation or adrenaline that reduce damage taken for a short period of time and falls off.
example: How many people go on fighting after being cut, stabbed, or injured solely because adrenaline doesn't allow us to notice the damage in order to survive. why not incorporate that realistic perspective into a fantasy game to give the fantasy elements more impact. so that the fantasy elements are not oversaturated to the point where nothing is special.
I liked that in WoW-Vanilla,
when a " Priest " had a Damage Dealer like a Rogue or a DMG-specced Warrior on himself - and he couldn't get rid of him with a Fear-Spell or whatever,
the Healer was in SERIOUS trouble. He was a Cloth-Wearer. No Leather, no Chainmal, no Plate Armor. He was not supposed to just "heal against" the DMG and never be in Danger.
If that would be the Case, than that would be the Mechanic doing something wrong.
You would also not "have Time" to heal around, when someone wants to cleave your Skull in Two with a two-handed Battle-Axe or Sword.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Guild is " Balderag's Garde " for now. (German)
"Better" is subjective. Especially in a well-designed RPG.
Base balance in Ashes is for an 8 person group.
Good builds should be determined by how each individual group chooses to spec and synergize abilities with their groupmates. Especially via Augments. Not some standardized META.
But, even individually, there are a variety of ways to add self-heals besides Fighter Active Skills.
Several Secondary Archetype Schools provide self-heals. And we can expect some self-heals via Racial, Social Org and Religion Augments as well.
Many ways to skin a cat.
Self heal is not the problem. A PvP game where fighters that has a role of frount line, should have self heals. Mitigation alone won't keep them in the fight. I do think the balance of the Fighters other specs needs to be considered. I hate when a class is piggion holed by the game or the coummity. I do think synergies is where that will balance.
I guess it depends on how many fighter builds have self heal. If its a part of all kits, as in a basic skill all fighters have, then really all we are talking about is degrees. Thats the impression I got, that all of them have this.
If that's the case then its just about how heavily you spec into it. They just have to balance out the builds that focus on it, compared to builds that push it to the side for other strengths.
To the OPs point, I definitely don't want it removed or deminished from the kit.
A fighter showered in blood getting a boost to his killing drive, as represented by him being able to live for a bit longer, fits the fighter fantasy just right imo.
We also dunno who else might be interacting with blood-related effects. Maybe it's purely a fighter thing in Ashes.
agreed
i'll quote my earlier response.
Self healing is a much weaker form of sustain than mitigation unless the 2 are combo'd together the fighters kit. My problem is that it defeats class fantasy. It defeats the feeling of being a fighter and makes the player feel like a necro fighter. There are so many better ideas than self heal that I'll list below.
Self Healing would be practically useless to a fighter if he is in the front line because that health healed would be taken within .25 seconds.. If one additional player shot an arrow or casted a spell the fighter would still be deleted with in seconds. Mitigation on the other hand would add the skill based element of using the players eyes to see the incoming green glowing arrow and bright red/orange magic bolt, to activate "Adrenaline" or "Brace" or "Prepare" or "Sword Block" or "Counter", to mitigate the incoming damage so that the fighter can play the game and also remain within class fantasy.
copy pasta'd my previous reply.
Self healing is a much weaker form of sustain than mitigation unless the 2 are combo'd together the fighters kit. My problem is that it defeats class fantasy. It defeats the feeling of being a fighter and makes the player feel like a necro fighter. There are so many better ideas than self heal that I'll list below.
Self Healing would be practically useless to a fighter if he is in the front line because that health healed would be taken within .25 seconds.. If one additional player shot an arrow or casted a spell the fighter would still be deleted with in seconds. Mitigation on the other hand would add the skill based element of using the players eyes to see the incoming green glowing arrow and bright red/orange magic bolt, to activate "Adrenaline" or "Brace" or "Prepare" or "Sword Block" or "Counter", to mitigate the incoming damage so that the fighter can play the game and also remain within class fantasy.
And yes, I agree with Depraved, mitigation is tank's thing - not fighter's.
Ashes supposedly will not be a game where these things you have said, are true. Death would not come fast enough, even to a frontline fighter, with enough On-hit healing, in a game with a '30s TTK', even focused down, because the more enemies around, the more healing is happening.
I believe it was specifically suggested to pop it during Whirlwind.
I have faith in the design team's understanding of player expectations.
That ain't anything like mitigation. Obviously this will have to be balanced and countered and all that, but as both Mag and you believe - Intrepid will design it as well as they can.
I won't be maining fighter, but to me that kind of gameplay sounds fun as hell. They gonna be a pain in my tank ass, but even still I'd prefer if everyone had fun in the game.
I didn't say I have faith they will design it well, or even 'as well as they can'. I have faith that they understand what players expect. What they choose to do about it will come down to their experience levels and biases.
The fact that it's an MP reset automatically could be rough though. I would prefer if that were a Spellsword Augment option rather than a base option.
If we learn that blood interactions ARE a fighter thing, I could definitely see mp getting separated into augments rather than being in the same effect. Though if Steven leans into the lore reasons for this - I don't really see a logical way to separate the two.
are we ignoring cooldowns? literally can be said for healing. natural hp regeneration and food could bring a fighter up in hp in-between fights. mitigation has more value and it is not a tanking only ability.
mages mitigate with shields
rogues with dodging
hunters with dodging and movement
I'd prefer if food gave general buffs and long-form regen boosts, rather than be a replacement for pots. And pots are usually a "during the fight" thing, because they let the healer save mana for just a bit longer. I'd expect pots to have a limited amount per gameplay session (or at least out-of-town session), so wasting them outside of fights would be detrimental.
The same applies to an even greater extent when playing solo.
There's also the question of pots/food costs, so having a self healing ability boosts your income doubly, because it not only allows you to farm stuff faster, but also saves you some money in resource expenditures.
And I've already said that I expect each archetype to have their own way of mitigating dmg. Blood can just be fighter's way.
And I've already said that I expect each archetype to have their own way of mitigating dmg. Blood can just be fighter's way.[/quote]
and so could adrenaline, sword block, counter, brace, and prepare. I still don't think blood healing is relative to fighters regardless of the world Verra or the fact that everyone is a mage technically. Mega leap, sure whatever. Cloud ff7 blade energy beam in the talent tree, sure whatever. Very over saturated fantasy fighter sure. But blood healing when a swords man... a master of the sword... blocks, parries, side steps, braces for impact, adrenaline, etc? like really? we're defaulting to blood healing?
Would you be okay with 'Spirit Regeneration'?
i.e. your problem here IS entirely that its blood THEMED, right?
As i said before you are just arguing to change it to something else since you don't like the style (not that you need to like it). I see no glaring issues even if there is more blood related skills, and some people like that.
It makes more sense than a giant magical hammer and people were more vocal about disliking that, most people are liking the current direction of fighter so i don't see them changing that (though abilities are bound to be adjust obviously through he course of alpha).
Long story short if you hate fighter cause it has a blood healing skill and it makes you mad don't play it. I'd say the same thing if someone hated the idea of mages having ice skills, or shadow rogue skills.
That's the entire point of Augments.
You aren't forced to use that branch of Active Skills.
If you want to use that branch of Active Skills but don't like the thematic Aesthetics, you can change that from Blood to something else via Augments.
you arent considering pve. you also arent considering that you will have a healer healing you, you are thinking from the perspective of a solo player jumping into a group.
also, ignore the numbers, the 0.25 seconds don't matter. numbers can be adjusted easily. what if you had reduction instead and it took .25 seconds for it to activate? in that small time frame another extra player could attack you and kill you. its the same as if you had healing instead.