Curious to see how this tests in A2. I agree with the spirit of @George_Black’s point though. Bunny hopping and diving animations are annoying in aimed combat.
In fps it's ok, it's a skill factor.
My only issue is how ridiculous characters look when it's being spammed.
jumping has no impact on gameplay, its just a habit, its fun, I think its weird to try forcing people play the way you think its "pretty"
Not about being pretty at all. It's about attacks hitting your target. Same cheap dodges in FPS. I jump all the time in mmos, but I don't think incessantly jumping should prevent your 5s cast major class attack from doing any damage.
I would have to see an example of that being the case. the only thing i can currently think of is basic shots from ranged weapons, and that might only be if projectiles work like you think they do. they could easily have a larger hit box for players or the projectiles that stop jumping from being an advantage save jumping off of high areas, and at that point the jump is irrelevant.
My wife is disabled and bunny hopping bring her so much joy as that's how she would move in RL if she could. We often log in to just bunny hop when she is having a bad day. So, leave the bunny hopping. 😂🤗
I think bunny hopping in combat should cost stamina or have any other downside. Else you wont see (m)any people using the action targeting. I mean we still have to play it, but that would be my take on it. Outside of combat I couldnt care less tbh.
I think bunny hopping in combat should cost stamina or have any other downside. Else you wont see (m)any people using the action targeting. I mean we still have to play it, but that would be my take on it. Outside of combat I couldnt care less tbh.
you can still hit people who bunny hop with action combat. the skills can just have a vertical (invisible if you want) hitbox instead of just horizontal
jumping has no impact on gameplay, its just a habit, its fun, I think its weird to try forcing people play the way you think its "pretty"
Not about being pretty at all. It's about attacks hitting your target. Same cheap dodges in FPS. I jump all the time in mmos, but I don't think incessantly jumping should prevent your 5s cast major class attack from doing any damage.
I would have to see an example of that being the case. the only thing i can currently think of is basic shots from ranged weapons, and that might only be if projectiles work like you think they do. they could easily have a larger hit box for players or the projectiles that stop jumping from being an advantage save jumping off of high areas, and at that point the jump is irrelevant.
I won't lie, I'm not that much into immersion, but if I was watching some fool bounce around like we're in a FPS shooter in a MMO is silly, try to hop up in down in armor. I have grown used to it though, doesn't mean I have to like it.
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I won't lie, I'm not that much into immersion, but if I was watching some fool bounce around like we're in a FPS shooter in a MMO is silly, try to hop up in down in armor. I have grown used to it though, doesn't mean I have to like it.
I don't get this argument at all. plenty of mmos let you freely jump. its not that big of a deal. Adding an actual mechanic that can cause you to get stuck, die, or just flat out feel clunky all because some people dont like to see others jumping around having fun is... just lame.
Let's add a stamina cost to Jump and help keep the game prettier
What if there is situations in the game, where you need to jump a lot of times in a row. Boss mechanic, Jumping at a barrier to shoot over it. A ton of jumping at a jumping puzzle.
It's a popular opinion that senseless bunny hopping looks dumb. How is "it's fine because it's a game?" even an argument?
Now I don't think jumping should have stamina penalty, but it should slow you down a bit. So you can jump here and there but it shouldn't be your go to "spam button for the lulz" while you're traveling longer distances (this includes jumping while mounted).
Slowing you down doesnt make too much sense or? I mean especially for kiting this seems like a big minus. Like jumpshots or the like. Id rather have it cost some stamina in combat.
I don't personally see an issue with bunny hopping, not like it gives an actual advantage. If anything it's disadvantageous because it locks your direction of movement while you're in the air.
I think you tend to see it while people are running straight because it acts as kind of a mental filler when you're not doing anything. It's kind of like unconscious humming, it's just something to fill your mental bandwidth at a time when you don't have anything else to do in spite of the stressful situation. Theoretically I think you could discourage people from bunny hopping by introducing something better they could be doing, rather than punishing it with a stamina cost.
Making jumping cost stamina can be frustrating because it's limiting something that can be essential. Imagine getting stuck between two rocks and being unable to get out because your stamina is gone. Or imagine trying to do a jumping puzzle but being forced to stand still for seconds at a time while your stamina regens, doing nothing, humming, twiddling your thumbs.
How does slowing down after jumping not make sense? Have you tried timing how long it takes to get from A to B while only running and while running AND jumping?
And kiting? How about not jumping while you kite, unless you need to jump ON something, in which case you accept a few milliseconds of slow.
It's all about bringing SOME penalty to mindless jumping, so that people wouldn't do it "just because", because it looks stupid and makes zero sense.
The simplest way to keep combat feeling good and still allow jumping, is to simply have jumping cancel any attacks or casts including auto attacks. While jumping attacks against you auto-crit (your in the air, you can't reasonably argue that you could respond to anything happening mid fall), and you have a short quarter second delay after landing before you can attack and cast again. (After all, you must re-settle your balance before taking a swing)
No reason to limit a player jumping around if they want, since in theory someone could hop around a battle all they want. However, jumping should be the least optimal as far as combat movement.
You know what, you guys are right. I now see the light. lets add stamina to running as well. Not sprinting, the little jog that all the characters do right now. So you are forced to walk if you do it for too long. I know the map is massive and has tons of z axis terrain to traverse but im sure adding stamina will be good for the game because "most players find it looks dumb".
Im totally down for kneecapping my control over my character to save my eyes from the dreaded jogger zombies and bunny hoppers.
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depending on how well collision works, I wouldn't mind seeing stamina get used for jumping if you can dodge ground based attacks with a well timed jump.
Let people bunny hop as much as they want. HOWEVER, the reason why people do that in the first place is due to the lack of movement abilities. Every class needs a movement ability that they can weave inbetween skills, this will significantly reduce the use of bunny hopping and restricts it to certain instances.
I do agree the excessive jumping that was showcased in the node war looked rather cartoonish, having the rangers wearing the wolf pelt made it seem like it was an army of bugs bunnies hopping all over the place. It contrasts poorly with the elegant animations of each class ability, its like having an excellent ballet performance but you decide to end by twerking in front of the audience.
Luckily enough the solution is rather simple. Instead of having every class rely on hopping for movement you could instead provide each class with a movement ability that has a short cool down and is relevant to them. Much like Black Desert Online.
I think the crowd that prefers the jump spam as the defacto movement skill for every class are still in the mindset of old MMOs. All the relatively new MMOs have incorporated seamless movement as part of their combat design philosophy and I'm sorry to say if people still have to resort to spamming the space button for movement I will be rather disappointed because I wont expect this from a 2028?2029?2030? MMO.
You have to pick your battles. If you care about immersion, remember that you are staring at a screen touching little buttons with your fingers. Honestly, it's not immersion breaking to see people being annoying as fuck. If anything, it'd be weird to play an online game where that wasn't ever-present.
Comments
In fps it's ok, it's a skill factor.
My only issue is how ridiculous characters look when it's being spammed.
I would have to see an example of that being the case. the only thing i can currently think of is basic shots from ranged weapons, and that might only be if projectiles work like you think they do. they could easily have a larger hit box for players or the projectiles that stop jumping from being an advantage save jumping off of high areas, and at that point the jump is irrelevant.
If i can't spam jump like irl than its immersion breaking to me.
parkour, hurdle jumping, jumping jacks, they all called and want to know where you live that jumping is a strange concept.
you can still hit people who bunny hop with action combat. the skills can just have a vertical (invisible if you want) hitbox instead of just horizontal
Agreed on both points.
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I don't get this argument at all. plenty of mmos let you freely jump. its not that big of a deal. Adding an actual mechanic that can cause you to get stuck, die, or just flat out feel clunky all because some people dont like to see others jumping around having fun is... just lame.
Yeah because you can do it unlimited and normally you see it everywhere in the city... You're right...
Do you want to remove the main endgame content?
What if there is situations in the game, where you need to jump a lot of times in a row. Boss mechanic, Jumping at a barrier to shoot over it. A ton of jumping at a jumping puzzle.
Much love
It's a popular opinion that senseless bunny hopping looks dumb. How is "it's fine because it's a game?" even an argument?
Now I don't think jumping should have stamina penalty, but it should slow you down a bit. So you can jump here and there but it shouldn't be your go to "spam button for the lulz" while you're traveling longer distances (this includes jumping while mounted).
I think you tend to see it while people are running straight because it acts as kind of a mental filler when you're not doing anything. It's kind of like unconscious humming, it's just something to fill your mental bandwidth at a time when you don't have anything else to do in spite of the stressful situation. Theoretically I think you could discourage people from bunny hopping by introducing something better they could be doing, rather than punishing it with a stamina cost.
Making jumping cost stamina can be frustrating because it's limiting something that can be essential. Imagine getting stuck between two rocks and being unable to get out because your stamina is gone. Or imagine trying to do a jumping puzzle but being forced to stand still for seconds at a time while your stamina regens, doing nothing, humming, twiddling your thumbs.
And kiting? How about not jumping while you kite, unless you need to jump ON something, in which case you accept a few milliseconds of slow.
It's all about bringing SOME penalty to mindless jumping, so that people wouldn't do it "just because", because it looks stupid and makes zero sense.
No reason to limit a player jumping around if they want, since in theory someone could hop around a battle all they want. However, jumping should be the least optimal as far as combat movement.
Im totally down for kneecapping my control over my character to save my eyes from the dreaded jogger zombies and bunny hoppers.
If so many people bunny-hop that it needs its own thread, then presumably it's also a popular opinion that bunny-hopping is fun.
And "it's fine because it's a game" makes sense because games are meant to be fun!
Bunnyhop slowdown is fine because it's a game.
Surely we can have features that are fun, aren't pointless and don't look dumb.
Luckily enough the solution is rather simple. Instead of having every class rely on hopping for movement you could instead provide each class with a movement ability that has a short cool down and is relevant to them. Much like Black Desert Online.
I think the crowd that prefers the jump spam as the defacto movement skill for every class are still in the mindset of old MMOs. All the relatively new MMOs have incorporated seamless movement as part of their combat design philosophy and I'm sorry to say if people still have to resort to spamming the space button for movement I will be rather disappointed because I wont expect this from a 2028?2029?2030? MMO.