Sounds like we as the community NEED to do a better job helping new people get acclimated into the game as it is vs begging to make the game something it is not intended to be.
Most gear is supposed to be crafted. Nobody can do all the crafting on a single toon. We will need to interact with others to get the materials (raw and processed) to build gear. So even crafting requires interaction with others.
All of this stuff is why many of us are here. We have no desire to go play something that allows a single player to do everything on a single character.
I never not once have said solo players should be able to do everything themselves. I have simply pointed out they basically have nothing to do at end game. Those are not the same thing
Yes and most large guilds will horde the mats for that gear so they can repair it when its broken. And they will push anyone trying to farm that stuff off those mats.
No, its not your job to tell people how to have fun or when to be comfortable in doing something, its the games job to provide a reasonable time farm for that to happen, or some intermediate systems that provide some benefits but not others. So they aren't playing solo but they aren't in a guild either, then one day they get on realize "I'm already doing 75% of what i need to be in the guild, why not just join". And now you have convinced them to join a guild and not forced them. That's how you grow a community.
0
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
You didn't read the post because if you had you would know that not only is solo players having worse gear supported it's the logical outcome of giving groups an experience bonus in a game where. In fact it's one of the most for certain things to say about a game that plans on having raids which will give gear.
The corruption system being more punishing for solo players is obvious especially if you read the post.
Ashes does not give Solo players worse gear. Doesn't matter what you wrote.
Also, Corruption is not worse for Solo players. As anyone familiar with the Ashes game design would know.
0
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I have simply pointed out they basically have nothing to do at end game.
Ashes does not have an endgame.
The world continues to change as Nodes rise and fall.
Ashes has many different forms of progression besides just Adventurer Levels.
But, yes, it is possible to Solo and still be part of a gaming Community.
So you don't understand how logic works, and you don't understand what an assumption is.
Like when I said Solo players will end up being lower level then people in guilds. That was just a baseless assumption. No logic involved there?
Not getting baited by that. Also, not citing specific assumptions because your 10 page essay is chock full of em.
Besides, you're obviously a solo player who doesn't want to PvP, who wants all content instanced, deserves participation trophies, and is just here to stir shit up about a game of which you are not the target audience. Oh look, I made an assumption.
It's pretty simple. Game isn't designed for solo players. Game is designed for group play. Game won't be for everyone. Logic would dictate that you find another game.
So the problem solo players need to fix is themselves, being solo - make some friends.
Good plan tell 70% of the MMO population pass on this game.
Not every player who has a preference for solo gameplay is as much of a sour grape as you.
Many of those 70% might enjoy the playstyle of WoW, or whatever other solo-friendly MMO, for now, because it's what has worked so far - but would be perfectly willing to adjust their expectations and behaviours in order to fit into a game where the priorities and demands are different, and change the way they play, if they find that this new gameplay loop is also enjoyable.
As for the rest, yes.
Yes, it is a fantastic idea to tell them to pass on this game.
All the reasons why WoW is such a boring soulless themepark filled with dailies and grind quests and arenas instead of anything of substance can be traced back to its attempt of appealing to everyone:
Where comfort and convenience are cranked up to the max.
And where communication and finding people whose playstyles you agree with is entirely optional, and grouping is streamlined without any social interaction required.
Ashes doesn't make this mistake.
Ashes is for players who are willing to combine PvP and PvE challenges,
who are willing to compete for high rewards at high risks and accept the setback when other players beat them to the objective,
and who care about building a world where their contribution alters the way the world looks, and what happens in it.
The rest can go play WoW, FFXIV and ESO, instead of disappointing themselves with something that wasn't made to appeal to their demands for a soloplay themepark LFG lobby.
So you don't understand how logic works, and you don't understand what an assumption is.
Like when I said Solo players will end up being lower level then people in guilds. That was just a baseless assumption. No logic involved there?
Not getting baited by that. Also, not citing specific assumptions because your 10 page essay is chock full of em.
Besides, you're obviously a solo player who doesn't want to PvP, who wants all content instanced, deserves participation trophies, and is just here to stir shit up about a game of which you are not the target audience. Oh look, I made an assumption.
It's pretty simple. Game isn't designed for solo players. Game is designed for group play. Game won't be for everyone. Logic would dictate that you find another game.
Actually I'm pretty upset because I wont ever be able to PvP on any kind of equal footing. That's all I do in MMOs is PvP. I've played MMORPGs since 99 and have done a total of 3 raids. 1 through LFR during whenever it came out on WoW to see what it was like(I was not impressed), and the other 2 in SWtoR which was the last guild I joined.
0
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Said nobody ever except for you...
2
bloodprophetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
[quote="AirborneBerserker;c-469128"
Actually I'm pretty upset because I wont ever be able to PvP on any kind of equal footing. That's all I do in MMOs is PvP. I've played MMORPGs since 99 and have done a total of 3 raids. 1 through LFR during whenever it came out on WoW to see what it was like(I was not impressed), and the other 2 in SWtoR which was the last guild I joined.[/quote]
This should have been your opening statement. Not 3 pages in.
it sounds like your more interested in lobby based games where everyone is the same. It also explains why you dislike the Archetype systems.
If your just looking to log in and PvP on equal footing then I hope you find what your looking for. I would suggest tempering your expectations for what AOC is trying to be.
Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
Actually I'm pretty upset because I wont ever be able to PvP on any kind of equal footing. That's all I do in MMOs is PvP. I've played MMORPGs since 99 and have done a total of 3 raids. 1 through LFR during whenever it came out on WoW to see what it was like(I was not impressed), and the other 2 in SWtoR which was the last guild I joined.
This should have been your opening statement. Not 3 pages in.
it sounds like your more interested in lobby based games where everyone is the same. It also explains why you dislike the Archetype systems.
If your just looking to log in and PvP on equal footing then I hope you find what your looking for. I would suggest tempering your expectations for what AOC is trying to be.
Nope cant stand Lobby games. I enjoy leveling and coming up with a build and testing it seeing how well it does then tweeking where it's needed. I like the open world feeling, I like the feeling of being in a lived in world.
Running content? you mean doing dungeons and raids? Yeah you wouldn't see anyone not in a guild doing that because solo players CAN'T do that.
While this is what I would normally refer to as running content, in this case I am talking about just being out in the open world killing base population.
If half of an MMORPG's population was solo/unguilded, they would be everywhere in games where you have to actually physically move around the world to get to dungeons and instances.
So you think that having a narrow selection of classes and a even more narrow selection for roles is a good thing?
I am saying that people who take issue with the class system have plenty of other games they can play, because so far there is no real reason for Intrepid to reconsider the current 8x8 class system. The design idea is good and makes sense on paper and as long as the testing of that system doesn't prove the theoretic idea wrong there is nothing that would justify deviating from the current path.
I am making the post because I can see how things will go wrong, baring a minor miracle. I said this in the OP I started thinking that fixing the class system would solve the problem. As I got to about the half way point I realized this game had way larger problems then I thought. And given the devs are human and humans can make mistakes maybe the devs made a mistake and didn't realize it. Because the devs aren't infallible.
There is plenty of reason to read through the post because the post is not a bunch of suggestions, it's a prediction. And when someone predicts something using logic and reason and interdisciplinary practices its a good idea to at least listen to what they have to say. And then if there right you maybe listen more next time and heed the warning.
Just so I understand this right: The entirety of Intrepid, a studio full of veteran MMORPG players themselves with the additional experience of being game designers for years if not decades, ALL overlooked as you said it "way larger problems" in almost all its core systems and you have figured it out despite only having joined something like 2 months ago? With all due respect despite the fact that Intrepid obviously is not perfect and on point with each of its decisions, that sounds to me like you are just quite full of yourself even though nothing indicates that you are either knowledgeable about the project or game development.
So you do think the devs are infallible. Okay got it.
No I think you are butthurt that I don't agree with you and instead of adressing my counterpoints you are trying to say anything to cover that. I literally said in that commen YOU EVEN QUOTED that they are making mistakes and yet here you are making a strawman out what I said.
We can agree to disagree but this type of behavior you can take to Reddit.
So the problem solo players need to fix is themselves, being solo - make some friends.
Good plan tell 70% of the MMO population pass on this game.
Not every player who has a preference for solo gameplay is as much of a sour grape as you.
Many of those 70% might enjoy the playstyle of WoW, or whatever other solo-friendly MMO, for now, because it's what has worked so far - but would be perfectly willing to adjust their expectations and behaviours in order to fit into a game where the priorities and demands are different, and change the way they play, if they find that this new gameplay loop is also enjoyable.
As for the rest, yes.
Yes, it is a fantastic idea to tell them to pass on this game.
All the reasons why WoW is such a boring soulless themepark filled with dailies and grind quests and arenas instead of anything of substance can be traced back to its attempt of appealing to everyone:
Where comfort and convenience are cranked up to the max.
And where communication and finding people whose playstyles you agree with is entirely optional, and grouping is streamlined without any social interaction required.
Ashes doesn't make this mistake.
Ashes is for players who are willing to combine PvP and PvE challenges,
who are willing to compete for high rewards at high risks and accept the setback when other players beat them to the objective,
and who care about building a world where their contribution alters the way the world looks, and what happens in it.
The rest can go play WoW, FFXIV and ESO, instead of disappointing themselves with something that wasn't made to appeal to their demands for a soloplay themepark LFG lobby.
Well this is progress of a sort.
Implying what?
The only one who can validate you for all the posts you didn't write is you.
Man here I thought I basically talked about PvP for that entire post.
If You have played "Planetside Two",
you might be aware that You WILL suffer - when You don't play PvP together with others. Usually when You run around completely alone, a.k.a. "Playing Solo" - You are asking to get jumped by several Opponents at once and simply get farmed like a PvE-Mob.
Instead I was bitching about not being able to solo all the PvE content.
HOW DARE YOU bitch(lol) about the Game ?? This is the Job of the many YouTube-Doomers !!!
Okay enough Jokes.
Hell i get freakin' EXANTHEMA whenever i hear the Word "Solo Content" in an MMO, by now.
As someone who played Worst of Warcraft since Vanilla - i was completely fine all these Years with "Solo Content". But i just couldn't un-notice what it did to the Community.
In Vanilla already there were People who viewed and disregarded You as absolute "SCUM" when You were a simple Solo Player without a Guild. You were deemed useless and hence - worthless.
While the Game had changed somewhat over the Years - i just can't un-notice what happens when a Game feels like a huge Single Player with a Lobby.
Some to many People view their fellow (Faction) Players as absolute GARBAGE - epecially when they can "solo" many kinds of Contents. Some to many People become little Emperors inside their own Heads : thinking about how they can probably "exploit" other People instead of viewing themselves and them as a Team.
This is why i think Ashes of Creation can not " force " People enough to play together. The more it would do it, the better. This arrogant thinking must vanish from People's Heads, that they can build an amazing Legacy alone.
Apparently ONE part of such a Legacy - are Freeholds.
It sounded a bit like it is not completely impossible to achieve a Freehold alone - but good Luck with that against the countless unemployed People in Reallife who will work in Teams to be able to get one.
Like the paragraph on Dungeons, oh wait there isn't one. Well the paragraph on Raids...also not there.
Almost like you didn't read the post at all just read a title and thought you knew everything.
Or maybe i just wanted to give my own, unimportant little take of what i sadly had to witness and experience for many Years by now as the "SOLO PLAYER Problem" of - well - an MMO.
And what i suspect will and can become a Problem in every other MMO as well.
Not like I'm pointing out that this game which has mountains of end game PvP and likes to remind people of that constantly. Has made sure Solo players will NEVER have any kind of EQUAL footing in a PvP conflict. So even if there were Solo players willing to put up with the bullshit of taking longer to level and getting ganked because people are bored they're still not going to play this game because they will almost never win a fight due to a gear gap, because of HOW THE GAME IS DESIGNED.
I wonder if this can be accepted as a kinda Solo Player "Problem" as well - but i wouldn't go so far as to claim it should be.
Because usually everyone has it in their own Hands if they want to put an Effort into "SOCIALIZING" with others in a PvP-Community and try their best to "git gud" in PvP and make a Difference in it.
And if you're tempted to say "Not everyone can have good gear.". When your end game Content is 90% open world PvP you better make sure EVERYONE can get the best gear, or some sort of baseline gear and then earn better gear.
There was actually only ONE Time during WoW Vanilla where i had the feeling i had to struggle for good gear.
It was when i for the first Time ever "levelled up" from "Green Gear" to "Blue Gear" - and from Blue Gear to "Epic Gear". and damn must i say it felt EARNED when i finally had what i wanted. .
Now if you don't mind I'm going to ignore you now since you have proven yourself both dishonest and stupid which means I give zero fucks about what you have to say.
UGH !!! i must be punished for my Sins and ways, oh mighty AirboneBerserker.
I will pray and beg forever in the Temple of The Others that my daily Penance will please you one day.
Until then - let us talk further about Problems which will probably not even be a thing once the Alpha Two will f~IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNALLY be here one Day in the Future - so we can test things and find out that the whole "Gameplay" might end up somewhat different than what so many People expect - "or fear" ... ...
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
So you think that having a narrow selection of classes and a even more narrow selection for roles is a good thing?
I am saying that people who take issue with the class system have plenty of other games they can play, because so far there is no real reason for Intrepid to reconsider the current 8x8 class system. The design idea is good and makes sense on paper and as long as the testing of that system doesn't prove the theoretic idea wrong there is nothing that would justify deviating from the current path.
I am making the post because I can see how things will go wrong, baring a minor miracle. I said this in the OP I started thinking that fixing the class system would solve the problem. As I got to about the half way point I realized this game had way larger problems then I thought. And given the devs are human and humans can make mistakes maybe the devs made a mistake and didn't realize it. Because the devs aren't infallible.
There is plenty of reason to read through the post because the post is not a bunch of suggestions, it's a prediction. And when someone predicts something using logic and reason and interdisciplinary practices its a good idea to at least listen to what they have to say. And then if there right you maybe listen more next time and heed the warning.
Just so I understand this right: The entirety of Intrepid, a studio full of veteran MMORPG players themselves with the additional experience of being game designers for years if not decades, ALL overlooked as you said it "way larger problems" in almost all its core systems and you have figured it out despite only having joined something like 2 months ago? With all due respect despite the fact that Intrepid obviously is not perfect and on point with each of its decisions, that sounds to me like you are just quite full of yourself even though nothing indicates that you are either knowledgeable about the project or game development.
So you do think the devs are infallible. Okay got it.
No I think you are butthurt that I don't agree with you and instead of addressing my counterpoints you are trying to say anything to cover that. I literally said in that comment YOU EVEN QUOTED that they are making mistakes and yet here you are making a strawman out what I said.
We can agree to disagree but this type of behavior you can take to Reddit.
I did not strawman anything. I asked a simple yes or no question and rather then just saying yes and agreeing to something that is just a basic fact about people, you spouted off a bunch of things which have nothing to do with anything I said.
Do any of the things you stated prevent the Devs from making a mistake? No, they don't. Did I ever claim any of those things, no I haven't, in fact I have said the opposite. So who is committing the strawman fallacy here?
So now let's look at a couple of the reasons why the devs might make a mistake. The node system is completely new and has never been implemented in a MMORPG before. The gathering system operates different then any other game due to the materials shifting around the world and disappearing entirely some times. That's just two things that have a massive effect of on how this will play different then any other MMORPGs plays. And as I pointed out in very beginning of my OP if your going to make a game difficult then you want the class system to as fun as possible as early as possible. Because it's the only system you know 100% of the player base will interact with.
So the problem solo players need to fix is themselves, being solo - make some friends.
Good plan tell 70% of the MMO population pass on this game.
Not every player who has a preference for solo gameplay is as much of a sour grape as you.
Many of those 70% might enjoy the playstyle of WoW, or whatever other solo-friendly MMO, for now, because it's what has worked so far - but would be perfectly willing to adjust their expectations and behaviours in order to fit into a game where the priorities and demands are different, and change the way they play, if they find that this new gameplay loop is also enjoyable.
As for the rest, yes.
Yes, it is a fantastic idea to tell them to pass on this game.
All the reasons why WoW is such a boring soulless themepark filled with dailies and grind quests and arenas instead of anything of substance can be traced back to its attempt of appealing to everyone:
Where comfort and convenience are cranked up to the max.
And where communication and finding people whose playstyles you agree with is entirely optional, and grouping is streamlined without any social interaction required.
Ashes doesn't make this mistake.
Ashes is for players who are willing to combine PvP and PvE challenges,
who are willing to compete for high rewards at high risks and accept the setback when other players beat them to the objective,
and who care about building a world where their contribution alters the way the world looks, and what happens in it.
The rest can go play WoW, FFXIV and ESO, instead of disappointing themselves with something that wasn't made to appeal to their demands for a soloplay themepark LFG lobby.
Well this is progress of a sort.
Implying what?
You didn't insult me or put words in my mouth. Which most of the posters do.
Running content? you mean doing dungeons and raids? Yeah you wouldn't see anyone not in a guild doing that because solo players CAN'T do that.
While this is what I would normally refer to as running content, in this case I am talking about just being out in the open world killing base population.
If half of an MMORPG's population was solo/unguilded, they would be everywhere in games where you have to actually physically move around the world to get to dungeons and instances.
So the problem solo players need to fix is themselves, being solo - make some friends.
Good plan tell 70% of the MMO population pass on this game.
Not every player who has a preference for solo gameplay is as much of a sour grape as you.
Many of those 70% might enjoy the playstyle of WoW, or whatever other solo-friendly MMO, for now, because it's what has worked so far - but would be perfectly willing to adjust their expectations and behaviours in order to fit into a game where the priorities and demands are different, and change the way they play, if they find that this new gameplay loop is also enjoyable.
As for the rest, yes.
Yes, it is a fantastic idea to tell them to pass on this game.
All the reasons why WoW is such a boring soulless themepark filled with dailies and grind quests and arenas instead of anything of substance can be traced back to its attempt of appealing to everyone:
Where comfort and convenience are cranked up to the max.
And where communication and finding people whose playstyles you agree with is entirely optional, and grouping is streamlined without any social interaction required.
Ashes doesn't make this mistake.
Ashes is for players who are willing to combine PvP and PvE challenges,
who are willing to compete for high rewards at high risks and accept the setback when other players beat them to the objective,
and who care about building a world where their contribution alters the way the world looks, and what happens in it.
The rest can go play WoW, FFXIV and ESO, instead of disappointing themselves with something that wasn't made to appeal to their demands for a soloplay themepark LFG lobby.
Well this is progress of a sort.
Implying what?
You didn't insult me or put words in my mouth. Which most of the posters do.
And I am punished with no response? =P
The only one who can validate you for all the posts you didn't write is you.
So the problem solo players need to fix is themselves, being solo - make some friends.
Good plan tell 70% of the MMO population pass on this game.
Not every player who has a preference for solo gameplay is as much of a sour grape as you.
Many of those 70% might enjoy the playstyle of WoW, or whatever other solo-friendly MMO, for now, because it's what has worked so far - but would be perfectly willing to adjust their expectations and behaviours in order to fit into a game where the priorities and demands are different, and change the way they play, if they find that this new gameplay loop is also enjoyable.
As for the rest, yes.
Yes, it is a fantastic idea to tell them to pass on this game.
All the reasons why WoW is such a boring soulless themepark filled with dailies and grind quests and arenas instead of anything of substance can be traced back to its attempt of appealing to everyone:
Where comfort and convenience are cranked up to the max.
And where communication and finding people whose playstyles you agree with is entirely optional, and grouping is streamlined without any social interaction required.
Ashes doesn't make this mistake.
Ashes is for players who are willing to combine PvP and PvE challenges,
who are willing to compete for high rewards at high risks and accept the setback when other players beat them to the objective,
and who care about building a world where their contribution alters the way the world looks, and what happens in it.
The rest can go play WoW, FFXIV and ESO, instead of disappointing themselves with something that wasn't made to appeal to their demands for a soloplay themepark LFG lobby.
Well this is progress of a sort.
Implying what?
You didn't insult me or put words in my mouth. Which most of the posters do.
And I am punished with no response? =P
Given their other thread, I wouldn’t expect much in the way of answers.
So the problem solo players need to fix is themselves, being solo - make some friends.
Good plan tell 70% of the MMO population pass on this game.
Not every player who has a preference for solo gameplay is as much of a sour grape as you.
Many of those 70% might enjoy the playstyle of WoW, or whatever other solo-friendly MMO, for now, because it's what has worked so far - but would be perfectly willing to adjust their expectations and behaviours in order to fit into a game where the priorities and demands are different, and change the way they play, if they find that this new gameplay loop is also enjoyable.
As for the rest, yes.
Yes, it is a fantastic idea to tell them to pass on this game.
All the reasons why WoW is such a boring soulless themepark filled with dailies and grind quests and arenas instead of anything of substance can be traced back to its attempt of appealing to everyone:
Where comfort and convenience are cranked up to the max.
And where communication and finding people whose playstyles you agree with is entirely optional, and grouping is streamlined without any social interaction required.
Ashes doesn't make this mistake.
Ashes is for players who are willing to combine PvP and PvE challenges,
who are willing to compete for high rewards at high risks and accept the setback when other players beat them to the objective,
and who care about building a world where their contribution alters the way the world looks, and what happens in it.
The rest can go play WoW, FFXIV and ESO, instead of disappointing themselves with something that wasn't made to appeal to their demands for a solo play theme park LFG lobby.
Well this is progress of a sort.
Implying what?
You didn't insult me or put words in my mouth. Which most of the posters do.
And I am punished with no response? =P
There isn't much to respond to. I agree with most of the post.
But I would caution you that if you don't create a way for new players to join the community then you only have empty servers to look forward to.
So the problem solo players need to fix is themselves, being solo - make some friends.
Good plan tell 70% of the MMO population pass on this game.
Not every player who has a preference for solo gameplay is as much of a sour grape as you.
Many of those 70% might enjoy the playstyle of WoW, or whatever other solo-friendly MMO, for now, because it's what has worked so far - but would be perfectly willing to adjust their expectations and behaviours in order to fit into a game where the priorities and demands are different, and change the way they play, if they find that this new gameplay loop is also enjoyable.
As for the rest, yes.
Yes, it is a fantastic idea to tell them to pass on this game.
All the reasons why WoW is such a boring soulless themepark filled with dailies and grind quests and arenas instead of anything of substance can be traced back to its attempt of appealing to everyone:
Where comfort and convenience are cranked up to the max.
And where communication and finding people whose playstyles you agree with is entirely optional, and grouping is streamlined without any social interaction required.
Ashes doesn't make this mistake.
Ashes is for players who are willing to combine PvP and PvE challenges,
who are willing to compete for high rewards at high risks and accept the setback when other players beat them to the objective,
and who care about building a world where their contribution alters the way the world looks, and what happens in it.
The rest can go play WoW, FFXIV and ESO, instead of disappointing themselves with something that wasn't made to appeal to their demands for a solo play theme park LFG lobby.
Well this is progress of a sort.
Implying what?
You didn't insult me or put words in my mouth. Which most of the posters do.
And I am punished with no response? =P
There isn't much to respond to. I agree with most of the post.
But I would caution you that if you don't create a way for new players to join the community then you only have empty servers to look forward to.
The way for a group-focused game to appeal to new players is to make the group-focused gameplay fun, not to offer more avenues to succeed without other players/guilds.
The only one who can validate you for all the posts you didn't write is you.
0
bloodprophetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
[quote="AirborneBerserker;c-469327"
But I would caution you that if you don't create a way for new players to join the community then you only have empty servers to look forward to.[/quote]
This is a community thing not an Intrepid thing.
Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
So the problem solo players need to fix is themselves, being solo - make some friends.
Good plan tell 70% of the MMO population pass on this game.
Not every player who has a preference for solo gameplay is as much of a sour grape as you.
Many of those 70% might enjoy the playstyle of WoW, or whatever other solo-friendly MMO, for now, because it's what has worked so far - but would be perfectly willing to adjust their expectations and behaviours in order to fit into a game where the priorities and demands are different, and change the way they play, if they find that this new gameplay loop is also enjoyable.
As for the rest, yes.
Yes, it is a fantastic idea to tell them to pass on this game.
All the reasons why WoW is such a boring soulless themepark filled with dailies and grind quests and arenas instead of anything of substance can be traced back to its attempt of appealing to everyone:
Where comfort and convenience are cranked up to the max.
And where communication and finding people whose playstyles you agree with is entirely optional, and grouping is streamlined without any social interaction required.
Ashes doesn't make this mistake.
Ashes is for players who are willing to combine PvP and PvE challenges,
who are willing to compete for high rewards at high risks and accept the setback when other players beat them to the objective,
and who care about building a world where their contribution alters the way the world looks, and what happens in it.
The rest can go play WoW, FFXIV and ESO, instead of disappointing themselves with something that wasn't made to appeal to their demands for a solo play theme park LFG lobby.
Well this is progress of a sort.
Implying what?
You didn't insult me or put words in my mouth. Which most of the posters do.
And I am punished with no response? =P
There isn't much to respond to. I agree with most of the post.
But I would caution you that if you don't create a way for new players to join the community then you only have empty servers to look forward to.
The way for a group-focused game to appeal to new players is to make the group-focused gameplay fun, not to offer more avenues to succeed without other players/guilds.
No it's not. If you want someone to change what there accustomed to you have to do it slowly, if the change is too fast then people will resist the change. People like what they like. If however what you do is create systems that create positive interactions between solo players and guilds that allows them to build up a reputation with each other so the guild knows they are getting a person they want in their guild and the person knows it's the kind of guild they want to be in. That is how, don't force them, convert them.
0
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
As I pointed out in very beginning of my OP if your going to make a game difficult then you want the class system to as fun as possible as early as possible. Because it's the only system you know 100% of the player base will interact with.
Nope. That is what you want. That’s not necessarily what Steven wants.
Your game design philosophy is different than Steven’s. That does not mean that because Steven’s vision for classes is not standard it’s a mistake.
Also, Steven expects to tweak his design after he gets feedback from players during Alpha 2.
“As fun as possible” is going to be subjective.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
If you want someone to change what there accustomed to you have to do it slowly, if the change is too fast then people will resist the change. People like what they like. If however what you do is create systems that create positive interactions between solo players and guilds that allows them to build up a reputation with each other so the guild knows they are getting a person they want in their guild and the person knows it's the kind of guild they want to be in. That is how, don't force them, convert them.
No one is forcing anyone to play Ashes of Creation. If you don’t enjoy the release version, don’t play it.
There’s more than one way to skin a cat.
But, Steven is introducing his systems slowly. The devs have already made 3 passes on implementation of Cleric, Mage and Tank - based on feedback from Alpha 1, 3 years ago.
We will probably have at least 1.5 years to test Primary Archetypes before Secondary Archetypes are introduced. And probably at least a year after that to test (and tweak) Secondary Archetypes.
Encounters in Ashes are designed for an 8-person Group with one of each Primary Archetype.
The focus of Ashes is on 250 v 250 PvP battles - with the hope of 500 v 500 PvP.
Solo players can participate in those battles.
You don’t have to be in a Group or Guild to participate in Caravan battles, Node Wars, Node Sieges or Dungeons/Raids.
If you want a more Solo-friendly game, you might prefer playing a different game.
Ashes is not made for everyone.
So the problem solo players need to fix is themselves, being solo - make some friends.
Good plan tell 70% of the MMO population pass on this game.
Not every player who has a preference for solo gameplay is as much of a sour grape as you.
Many of those 70% might enjoy the playstyle of WoW, or whatever other solo-friendly MMO, for now, because it's what has worked so far - but would be perfectly willing to adjust their expectations and behaviours in order to fit into a game where the priorities and demands are different, and change the way they play, if they find that this new gameplay loop is also enjoyable.
As for the rest, yes.
Yes, it is a fantastic idea to tell them to pass on this game.
All the reasons why WoW is such a boring soulless themepark filled with dailies and grind quests and arenas instead of anything of substance can be traced back to its attempt of appealing to everyone:
Where comfort and convenience are cranked up to the max.
And where communication and finding people whose playstyles you agree with is entirely optional, and grouping is streamlined without any social interaction required.
Ashes doesn't make this mistake.
Ashes is for players who are willing to combine PvP and PvE challenges,
who are willing to compete for high rewards at high risks and accept the setback when other players beat them to the objective,
and who care about building a world where their contribution alters the way the world looks, and what happens in it.
The rest can go play WoW, FFXIV and ESO, instead of disappointing themselves with something that wasn't made to appeal to their demands for a solo play theme park LFG lobby.
Well this is progress of a sort.
Implying what?
You didn't insult me or put words in my mouth. Which most of the posters do.
And I am punished with no response? =P
There isn't much to respond to. I agree with most of the post.
But I would caution you that if you don't create a way for new players to join the community then you only have empty servers to look forward to.
The way for a group-focused game to appeal to new players is to make the group-focused gameplay fun, not to offer more avenues to succeed without other players/guilds.
No it's not. If you want someone to change what there accustomed to you have to do it slowly, if the change is too fast then people will resist the change. People like what they like. If however what you do is create systems that create positive interactions between solo players and guilds that allows them to build up a reputation with each other so the guild knows they are getting a person they want in their guild and the person knows it's the kind of guild they want to be in. That is how, don't force them, convert them.
Maybe taverns will bring together those who refuse to join a guild.
If they are citizens of the same node, will end up knowing each-other and rely on each other's availability.
Maybe taverns will bring together those who refuse to join a guild.
If they are citizens of the same node, will end up knowing each-other and rely on each other's availability
Yes, but the point would be for Solo players to hang out with guild members, not other solo players.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
In Ashes, Solo payers can hang out with Guilds if they want to or hang out with other Solo players if they want to.
Maybe taverns will bring together those who refuse to join a guild.
If they are citizens of the same node, will end up knowing each-other and rely on each other's availability
Yes, but the point would be for Solo players to hang out with guild members, not other solo players.
Guilds can form spontaneously after players play together more often, being in the same area as citizens.
And guilds looking for recruits will visit those places too. Maybe they will not directly recruit players but just invite them sometime to play together.
Steven said he wants to implement good guild management tools in the game. Going to a discord server will not be needed to interact with the players in the guild, when you are just temporarily playing with them. Voice chat was mentioned too. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Voice_communications
I mean
- if guilds want a recruit and
- a solo player needs help to farm for gear
then they can help the solo player and also find out why he is solo.
Running content? you mean doing dungeons and raids? Yeah you wouldn't see anyone not in a guild doing that because solo players CAN'T do that.
While this is what I would normally refer to as running content, in this case I am talking about just being out in the open world killing base population.
If half of an MMORPG's population was solo/unguilded, they would be everywhere in games where you have to actually physically move around the world to get to dungeons and instances.
That just isn't the case. They aren't there.
Okay what MMOs do you play?
MMO's I'm talking about;
EQ
EQ2
WoW
Rift
Archeage
Age of Conan
DDO
LotRO
STO
GW2
BDO
EvE
I've played other, but that is enough.
None of these games had more than perhaps 5% of their actual population unguilded. A far cry short of your claimed 50%+.
Comments
I never not once have said solo players should be able to do everything themselves. I have simply pointed out they basically have nothing to do at end game. Those are not the same thing
Yes and most large guilds will horde the mats for that gear so they can repair it when its broken. And they will push anyone trying to farm that stuff off those mats.
No, its not your job to tell people how to have fun or when to be comfortable in doing something, its the games job to provide a reasonable time farm for that to happen, or some intermediate systems that provide some benefits but not others. So they aren't playing solo but they aren't in a guild either, then one day they get on realize "I'm already doing 75% of what i need to be in the guild, why not just join". And now you have convinced them to join a guild and not forced them. That's how you grow a community.
Also, Corruption is not worse for Solo players. As anyone familiar with the Ashes game design would know.
The world continues to change as Nodes rise and fall.
Ashes has many different forms of progression besides just Adventurer Levels.
But, yes, it is possible to Solo and still be part of a gaming Community.
Not getting baited by that. Also, not citing specific assumptions because your 10 page essay is chock full of em.
Besides, you're obviously a solo player who doesn't want to PvP, who wants all content instanced, deserves participation trophies, and is just here to stir shit up about a game of which you are not the target audience. Oh look, I made an assumption.
It's pretty simple. Game isn't designed for solo players. Game is designed for group play. Game won't be for everyone. Logic would dictate that you find another game.
- Shaiya circa 2007-2008 - Guild Wars 2 circa 2014-2016 - ArcheAge circa 2016-2018
- Black Desert 2019-2024 - ESO 2021-2024 - FFXIV(fake pvp)2021-2022
Well this is progress of a sort.
Actually I'm pretty upset because I wont ever be able to PvP on any kind of equal footing. That's all I do in MMOs is PvP. I've played MMORPGs since 99 and have done a total of 3 raids. 1 through LFR during whenever it came out on WoW to see what it was like(I was not impressed), and the other 2 in SWtoR which was the last guild I joined.
Actually I'm pretty upset because I wont ever be able to PvP on any kind of equal footing. That's all I do in MMOs is PvP. I've played MMORPGs since 99 and have done a total of 3 raids. 1 through LFR during whenever it came out on WoW to see what it was like(I was not impressed), and the other 2 in SWtoR which was the last guild I joined.[/quote]
This should have been your opening statement. Not 3 pages in.
it sounds like your more interested in lobby based games where everyone is the same. It also explains why you dislike the Archetype systems.
If your just looking to log in and PvP on equal footing then I hope you find what your looking for. I would suggest tempering your expectations for what AOC is trying to be.
Nope cant stand Lobby games. I enjoy leveling and coming up with a build and testing it seeing how well it does then tweeking where it's needed. I like the open world feeling, I like the feeling of being in a lived in world.
If half of an MMORPG's population was solo/unguilded, they would be everywhere in games where you have to actually physically move around the world to get to dungeons and instances.
That just isn't the case. They aren't there.
No I think you are butthurt that I don't agree with you and instead of adressing my counterpoints you are trying to say anything to cover that. I literally said in that commen YOU EVEN QUOTED that they are making mistakes and yet here you are making a strawman out what I said.
We can agree to disagree but this type of behavior you can take to Reddit.
If You have played "Planetside Two",
you might be aware that You WILL suffer - when You don't play PvP together with others. Usually when You run around completely alone, a.k.a. "Playing Solo" - You are asking to get jumped by several Opponents at once and simply get farmed like a PvE-Mob.
HOW DARE YOU bitch(lol) about the Game ?? This is the Job of the many YouTube-Doomers !!!
Okay enough Jokes.
Hell i get freakin' EXANTHEMA whenever i hear the Word "Solo Content" in an MMO, by now.
As someone who played Worst of Warcraft since Vanilla - i was completely fine all these Years with "Solo Content". But i just couldn't un-notice what it did to the Community.
In Vanilla already there were People who viewed and disregarded You as absolute "SCUM" when You were a simple Solo Player without a Guild. You were deemed useless and hence - worthless.
While the Game had changed somewhat over the Years - i just can't un-notice what happens when a Game feels like a huge Single Player with a Lobby.
Some to many People view their fellow (Faction) Players as absolute GARBAGE - epecially when they can "solo" many kinds of Contents. Some to many People become little Emperors inside their own Heads : thinking about how they can probably "exploit" other People instead of viewing themselves and them as a Team.
This is why i think Ashes of Creation can not " force " People enough to play together. The more it would do it, the better. This arrogant thinking must vanish from People's Heads, that they can build an amazing Legacy alone.
Apparently ONE part of such a Legacy - are Freeholds.
It sounded a bit like it is not completely impossible to achieve a Freehold alone - but good Luck with that against the countless unemployed People in Reallife who will work in Teams to be able to get one.
Or maybe i just wanted to give my own, unimportant little take of what i sadly had to witness and experience for many Years by now as the "SOLO PLAYER Problem" of - well - an MMO.
And what i suspect will and can become a Problem in every other MMO as well.
I wonder if this can be accepted as a kinda Solo Player "Problem" as well - but i wouldn't go so far as to claim it should be.
Because usually everyone has it in their own Hands if they want to put an Effort into "SOCIALIZING" with others in a PvP-Community and try their best to "git gud" in PvP and make a Difference in it.
There was actually only ONE Time during WoW Vanilla where i had the feeling i had to struggle for good gear.
It was when i for the first Time ever "levelled up" from "Green Gear" to "Blue Gear" - and from Blue Gear to "Epic Gear".
But how can i read a Post when i am a typical MMO Player who only thinks of his own Opinion and View ?
( i am joking
UGH !!!
I will pray and beg forever in the Temple of The Others that my daily Penance will please you one day.
Until then - let us talk further about Problems which will probably not even be a thing once the Alpha Two will f~IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNALLY be here one Day in the Future - so we can test things and find out that the whole "Gameplay" might end up somewhat different than what so many People expect - "or fear" ... ...
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
I did not strawman anything. I asked a simple yes or no question and rather then just saying yes and agreeing to something that is just a basic fact about people, you spouted off a bunch of things which have nothing to do with anything I said.
Do any of the things you stated prevent the Devs from making a mistake? No, they don't. Did I ever claim any of those things, no I haven't, in fact I have said the opposite. So who is committing the strawman fallacy here?
So now let's look at a couple of the reasons why the devs might make a mistake. The node system is completely new and has never been implemented in a MMORPG before. The gathering system operates different then any other game due to the materials shifting around the world and disappearing entirely some times. That's just two things that have a massive effect of on how this will play different then any other MMORPGs plays. And as I pointed out in very beginning of my OP if your going to make a game difficult then you want the class system to as fun as possible as early as possible. Because it's the only system you know 100% of the player base will interact with.
You didn't insult me or put words in my mouth. Which most of the posters do.
Okay what MMOs do you play?
Given their other thread, I wouldn’t expect much in the way of answers.
There isn't much to respond to. I agree with most of the post.
But I would caution you that if you don't create a way for new players to join the community then you only have empty servers to look forward to.
But I would caution you that if you don't create a way for new players to join the community then you only have empty servers to look forward to.[/quote]
This is a community thing not an Intrepid thing.
No it's not. If you want someone to change what there accustomed to you have to do it slowly, if the change is too fast then people will resist the change. People like what they like. If however what you do is create systems that create positive interactions between solo players and guilds that allows them to build up a reputation with each other so the guild knows they are getting a person they want in their guild and the person knows it's the kind of guild they want to be in. That is how, don't force them, convert them.
Your game design philosophy is different than Steven’s. That does not mean that because Steven’s vision for classes is not standard it’s a mistake.
Also, Steven expects to tweak his design after he gets feedback from players during Alpha 2.
“As fun as possible” is going to be subjective.
There’s more than one way to skin a cat.
But, Steven is introducing his systems slowly. The devs have already made 3 passes on implementation of Cleric, Mage and Tank - based on feedback from Alpha 1, 3 years ago.
We will probably have at least 1.5 years to test Primary Archetypes before Secondary Archetypes are introduced. And probably at least a year after that to test (and tweak) Secondary Archetypes.
Encounters in Ashes are designed for an 8-person Group with one of each Primary Archetype.
The focus of Ashes is on 250 v 250 PvP battles - with the hope of 500 v 500 PvP.
Solo players can participate in those battles.
You don’t have to be in a Group or Guild to participate in Caravan battles, Node Wars, Node Sieges or Dungeons/Raids.
If you want a more Solo-friendly game, you might prefer playing a different game.
Ashes is not made for everyone.
Yes, but the point would be for Solo players to hang out with guild members, not other solo players.
And guilds looking for recruits will visit those places too. Maybe they will not directly recruit players but just invite them sometime to play together.
Steven said he wants to implement good guild management tools in the game. Going to a discord server will not be needed to interact with the players in the guild, when you are just temporarily playing with them. Voice chat was mentioned too.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Voice_communications
I mean
- if guilds want a recruit and
- a solo player needs help to farm for gear
then they can help the solo player and also find out why he is solo.
MMO's I'm talking about;
EQ
EQ2
WoW
Rift
Archeage
Age of Conan
DDO
LotRO
STO
GW2
BDO
EvE
I've played other, but that is enough.
None of these games had more than perhaps 5% of their actual population unguilded. A far cry short of your claimed 50%+.