Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
Syblitrh
Member
I don't know if this was discussed or not, or how many noticed this. How do you guys feel about how the current health bar updates for player enemy when they take dmg?
There are 4 bars for the total health of a player enemy, now let's say enemy total health is 18k, that's like 4.5k per bar.
So, while you do dmg to the player enemy, and you see your skills popping up numbers on hit, you have no idea if the dmg was registered or not, as the health bar doesn't move, unless you do more dmg than what a hp bar has.
The way in which health updates is by health bars, and not by each hit you do to the player. So this is really confusing in pvp, as the health bar is not moving, and it will only update visually if you/others total dmg hits is more than what a hp bar has (in this case 4.5k a bar) . Only then it will consume the bar and go to the next one, with another 4.5k, from the total 18k.
This example was for a enemy with18k health/4.5k a bar.
Is this a good health bar display mechanic for pvp?
I rather see no bar than this confusing visual health mechanic, or just have the classic health bar update on dmg taken per hit.
There are 4 bars for the total health of a player enemy, now let's say enemy total health is 18k, that's like 4.5k per bar.
So, while you do dmg to the player enemy, and you see your skills popping up numbers on hit, you have no idea if the dmg was registered or not, as the health bar doesn't move, unless you do more dmg than what a hp bar has.
The way in which health updates is by health bars, and not by each hit you do to the player. So this is really confusing in pvp, as the health bar is not moving, and it will only update visually if you/others total dmg hits is more than what a hp bar has (in this case 4.5k a bar) . Only then it will consume the bar and go to the next one, with another 4.5k, from the total 18k.
This example was for a enemy with18k health/4.5k a bar.
Is this a good health bar display mechanic for pvp?
I rather see no bar than this confusing visual health mechanic, or just have the classic health bar update on dmg taken per hit.
4
Comments
Having no health bars would be dumb as hell.
Can you please give me a TL:DR on why? I just don't see the point.
I dislike the current system as well, but I don't see the point of obscuring enemy hp.
If they're keen on the current system, at least make it be in increments of 10%.
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/comment/445067#Comment_445067
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/59581/target-player-health-indicator/p1
(Both arguments for "no health bar" and "only restricted information accuracy on health bar" are brought up in most of these threads; there are several more of that kind.)
Totally agree. There was a pretty active thread about this particular topic some times ago: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/59039/health-bar-should-be-removed-and-here-is-why/p1
If I can see where your hp is - I can know how to keep you at <=25%hp. This will directly hamper your ability to clear pve content, while I will not get any corruption for it. And with even the tiniest bit of math on top of this system, we'll quickly learn relatively precise hp values of our victims, which will not only make it way easier to keep them at low hp, but will also make it easier to kill them under mobs w/o becoming corrupted.
None of that is the case if you can't see your target's hp. Invisible hp worked completely fine in L2, when it came to pvp and PKing, and it quite often punished anyone who tried the abuse I described above, because they'd overestimate the hp of their target and would PK them instead of keeping them low.
I would agree with you, but is not "fine"
So in the link above I saw a quote from Azherae which says
And that makes the most sense to me. I have no problem with not seeing hp bar of non-combatants. But if I'm fighting someone, I absolutely want and need to know their hp.
Also bars don't make sense, because you always know if the target is above the 50% threshold or below it. Just remove bars, but leave one hp bar if you are keen on this version. It's more ambiguous this way, and you can only guess the rough percentage when you are at the break point between 25% 50% 75% etc.
I agree with your reasoning, even though this wasn't an issue in any other game I played. Maybe this would only be a unique problem with L2, and in this case Ashes as well?
Happy to see some common sense from fellow L2 veteran. Some people may argue that not being able to see enemy's HP will make using certain skill rotations and execute skills more complicated which is true, but at the same time, your enemies won't see your HP bars as well, so it's an equal playing field.
In the meantine, there is huge number of casual players, new MMO players and those who worry about Corruption, Griefing and Open-World PvP System in general. Even though it is mostly based on fear of the unknown, anxiety and bad experience in other games, it is still a reason for them to worry. Therefore, making health bars invisible could be a 100% net positive for the game.
I still prefer invisible hp, because I'm an elitist fuck like that, but I'd be more than willing to go for that compromise.
For large scaled pvp which seems to be more in focus the current solution is fine, because individuals care less, group size matters and its not that important if the enemy is at 17% or 22%, its enough to see he is under 25%, last HP bar remaining. If 30 players switch after raid lead calls the target, that 25% player is gone, makes no added value if he was at 17% or 22% precisely.
No health bar just makes no sense, this is fully random dps without focused and tactical gameplay, you just fire randomly targets without knowing which targets potentially could be finished/swapped to.
AoE markers are for persistent effects, not player attacks that have yet to land. That’s what ability vfx are for as long as people are paying attention.
Segmented HP bars on combatants give enough information to see the overall combat state, but are vague enough to keep things interesting.
HP bars exist where you’d in reality be seeing wounds on the other person. You can tell the general state of someone in boxing based on their movement and the condition of their face or skin. In a video game those things don’t ever change, so the UI translates that information instead. 25% increments are on a good line of info given vs info concealed.
Which will be 25% of the playerbase maybe at most
But yeah, to me it would just feel weird playing the game this way, fighting someone and not seeing their HP.
I don't know if I'm doing any damage to them, I don't know if it was a close fight or not, I have very limited information about the whole fight.
For large scale PvP, it makes no difference, I guess.
I want to see the exact HP of a player I am fighting. I dont like the current system. I was a fighter. I have trained in fighting. From the first blow to the last. I could read on their face how many HP they had. How they moved after a blow was telling. This current system is down right dumb. I do get not knowing a creature you dont know, not knowing its HP but over time, fight enough of them as well. You would know how mortal each blow you did to that creature as well.
If you dont‘t see any HP bar, it will not be precise, but luck and with only hope. During group fights AoE are used, so enemy players start to decrease in HP. This must be seen, together with target calling (and after that new target calling, because against good enemies one call never is enough, but target switches are, prepared and executed with CC effects and well timed switches) and CC enemies will potentially be defeated. But if you dont see the current HP (for instance due to healing the focus target still gets, but maybe another enemy already is at 50%), you cant do serious and well-timed switches. Because you switch from „I dont know“ to „I dont know“ if you dont see enemy HP. But skilled switched are a major success factor in pvp.
Are we talking about the same? If yes, very funny. You‘ve played pvp, right? Just to be sure ;-)
I will still play this game, as i am used to the meat grinder in planetside2, where is a constant territory faction war. And no matter how want to play, in the end you will be forced to progress the way the game was designed, for the faction/node, and not for yourself.
You would still see you do dmg and how much dmg you do, on top of if they block, evade, etc.
Seeing all single HP points precisley is a MUST for serious professional small scaled pvp. As AoC likes the big groups, 25% ranges can be fine. Its perhaps 100vs100, nobody cares whether the enemy is at 22% or 17%. But not knowing whether he is on 75% or 25% is nonsense, because whom to attack? The first one you see
As for corruption: Thats the consequence within a „design“ where non-pvpers can be attacked. This problem will not exist if this wouldn exist. If a pvp flagged player is pve-ing and got 20% HP, sure he will be bursted down from the nasty, stealthy rogue. But thats his problem, he was pvp flagged. You cant answer one bad design (allowing non-pvper to be attacked) with another bad design (no HP bars). Its double nonsene then.
@Ludullu_(NiKr) You should join me for that ;o
I'm going to go ranger but we just need more cc and a tank and we should be able to do it pretty effectively. A lot of people might hate us but its the only way people will learn when they hours of progress and we dont get punished for it lmao.
The way you put is like the rest of pvp encounters outside "professional" ways, is just for fun, if i die i die, if i kill i kill. Any kind of pvp activity is a competitive encounter. Having HP split like this, and being consumed in parts, not knowing an exact result of your actions makes is super casual, where people will just spam random targets, for the fun" of it, or going for the shinny one with fancy skin
I‘m a fan of knowing the precise HP, all buffs, all debuffs, all coldowns (if possible). Last 20y of my MMO experience I needed that in pvp, and to play high ranked pvp (like Arena or rated BG in WoW or sPvP in GW2).
I‘m just saying in 100vs100 fights its an overload on information so I can in general understand why AoC got this implementation state right now and in big group fights that‘s fine, we would adept to that fast, it would be manageable. Perhaps the change it back to precise HP bars anyway. Testing phase will show.
Only one thing just shouldnt happen: Having no information about enemy HP. This makes no sense in serious and well designed pvp.
But I will lack context, are they getting healed, for how much, how much hp do they have in total or after heals, any shields/barriers they have, how much in total, etc.
Besides, it feels awfully weird to play that way.
My "solution" would be - Non-combatant enemy players = no knowledge about HP
- Combatant players in small scale = full knowledge of % HP they have
- Combatant players in large scale = current version, where we only see 4-6 bars
How this could be implemented? No idea. If it can't be implemented, just have it so we have full knowledge of combatant's hp, or even in increments of 5 or 10%.
Which would be fine I guess, but TTK is not going to be as long, and this system afaik only works for players, not mobs.
Visuals, sound effects, bleeding effects, snared, knocked back. Your enemy is in real trouble. And life points? Nothing.
I mean, if these opinions and „feedback“ is provided from the core AoC kickstarters and alpha testers later on AND intrepid is listening to them what to say
To your proposal: Constructive feedback. Way better, but „no hp bar“ for non-pvpers just seems to be a workaround suggestion due to forcing non-combatants into pvp. Wouldnt be needed, its just a consequence of the pvp obligation to legitimize the corruption system. If s player decides to non-pvp, leave him this choice. No HP bar problem existing.
If you want players to pvp at world bosses, caravans or whatever, force them in this content to be pvp flagged. Thats no real issue, the design is just not considering player choice and the consequences, so you need the next design to correct that decision.