Eventually you guys are going to wake up to the level of organization already going on in this game...Between guild discords, and other summit discords between guilds. When the game is in a stronger point in alpha you will see those develop even further. Which Ludullu i don't see you in a single one of those discords as well.
Because my guild will only operate in my node, which I'll make my own discord channel for. And my guild will be for those exact casual players that you worry about, because I wanna give them a direct sense of community rather than a nebulous "oh, there's a random dude that has nothing to do with me across the server which is 40 minutes away from me + a boat travel. Wow, such amazement, much cool".
And you're also literally proving my point for me. You say that people can ignore global if they want, but you claim that it'll have important info there, so what exactly are people supposed to do? You also say that people will talk/banter there, but it's somehow supposed to NOT be spammy, while also still be important? Those 2 things don't really work together.
And the main benefit for my point is you saying that all the stuff I'm talking about will be spread through guild discords and stuff like that. Which is exactly what I already said. Guilds having people that will give them info directly and in private, instead of globally. And even if there is a global chat - that info (when it comes not from a random dude walking by) would not be spread in global, which simply proves that truly important info will not be posted there.
So, once again, global chat will be spammed by random bs from random people all across a 10k-player server. And if you wanna know how that will feel - go to any big streamer who has his chat flying by faster than a jet and try having a normal conversation with another person w/o going to dms. You'd have to constantly stop the chat by scrolling up and reading what the other person said.
Server is not a community. Server is a world (a realm, if you may). And then within that world you have your communities in the form of nodes, alliances and guilds. And those chats will be global, will be used to spread good info for and about the people within those communities and will be act-uponable by those very people, because not only will the scale of it all be smaller, but the distance between people will quite likely be way shorter as well (unless someone decides to travel to the other side of the world).
Global chat is just another tool of the single mmo players, because they want the sense of community w/o joining one.
Gold seller argument makes 0 sense, they will be banned and its easy money since they need to buy another subscription.
Of course he will get banned, but 10,000 players potentially seeing his message - that's enough to make it ROI-positive for him. And even if he doesn't get banned right away - he'd have a chance to do that a few more times before that happens
Whatever
Why are we even talking about this in this thread? It has nothing to do with the topic
Eventually you guys are going to wake up to the level of organization already going on in this game...Between guild discords, and other summit discords between guilds. When the game is in a stronger point in alpha you will see those develop even further. Which Ludullu i don't see you in a single one of those discords as well.
Because my guild will only operate in my node, which I'll make my own discord channel for. And my guild will be for those exact casual players that you worry about, because I wanna give them a direct sense of community rather than a nebulous "oh, there's a random dude that has nothing to do with me across the server which is 40 minutes away from me + a boat travel. Wow, such amazement, much cool".
And you're also literally proving my point for me. You say that people can ignore global if they want, but you claim that it'll have important info there, so what exactly are people supposed to do? You also say that people will talk/banter there, but it's somehow supposed to NOT be spammy, while also still be important? Those 2 things don't really work together.
And the main benefit for my point is you saying that all the stuff I'm talking about will be spread through guild discords and stuff like that. Which is exactly what I already said. Guilds having people that will give them info directly and in private, instead of globally. And even if there is a global chat - that info (when it comes not from a random dude walking by) would not be spread in global, which simply proves that truly important info will not be posted there.
So, once again, global chat will be spammed by random bs from random people all across a 10k-player server. And if you wanna know how that will feel - go to any big streamer who has his chat flying by faster than a jet and try having a normal conversation with another person w/o going to dms. You'd have to constantly stop the chat by scrolling up and reading what the other person said.
Server is not a community. Server is a world (a realm, if you may). And then within that world you have your communities in the form of nodes, alliances and guilds. And those chats will be global, will be used to spread good info for and about the people within those communities and will be act-uponable by those very people, because not only will the scale of it all be smaller, but the distance between people will quite likely be way shorter as well (unless someone decides to travel to the other side of the world).
Global chat is just another tool of the single mmo players, because they want the sense of community w/o joining one.
And those people in your guild could very well have their sense of community also enjoy global chat as well. Your dislike of it doesn't mean other people will share your thoughts even if being in your guild / discord. If anything people in your discord if its a node one might be more inclined to liking elements of talking in general including global chats since they are more social.
Also you aren't making any argument against it with that point, you just don't' like it so id say don't interact with it. As you don't like that nebulous global chat. Having played some current mmorpgs and having played throne and liberty betas and such (and playing for launch) the nebulous global chat is fine and good. Times are changing and you need to move away from how things were 20 years ago.
2 things work together really well actually, if you are that stuck up and stubborn you can fully ignore global chat and be fine. Based on your position on the server the higher more more valuable the information could be for you at times. Also you alone don't need to read all comments, that isn't how communication works. If something is treading people will know about it (ie being important).
You are talking about chat flying like streamers yet again, if you have played any modern mmorpgs it would show your point doesn't stand. And I'd have to seriously ask what current mmorpgs have you really played and actually sunk in time, or tried to be competitive and pay attention to the community? What you are saying doesn't really match up with what goes on in reality with global chats that are set up correctly.
Naa the server is all part of one universal community that comes together with other large and small communities, with a server having its own history and such.
If global chat helps give them a sense of community that is great, they interact and can meet people and make groups. The thing is smaller communities on that game server also use global chat even more so.
If you are against global chat simply don't use it, it doesn't mean information on it won't reach you if its relevant. How people want to paly the game, and connect to people should be empowered. How things were 20 years ago were not good lmao.
Saying you use local chat in L2 when you are only using it because the game doesn't offer you a better options isn't a great argument for either L2 or local chat. If you were using local chat in a game that had global chat channels and custom channels, then I'd have some more questions.
This comes back to the discussions of "pls, Intrepid, give us global chat so we can spam the entire fucking server with our BS; but no, limit us in ability to spam chat so that we DON'T spam chat, but still give us the global chat". Do you see how dumb that is?
It's funny, this kind of chat spam only really happens in WoW. It wasn't an issue in EQ2, nor in Archeage.
In EQ2, you would sometimes see someone spamming in global chat. People just ignored them. That person would then level up (it was always a new person, almost always someone from WoW) and then complain on the forums that they couldn't find a group or guild. It wouldn't be long before someone would point out to them that 90%+ of the server had them on ignore, so their best bet was to reroll with a new character.
This is why chat spam wasn't a thing, being on ignore made you suffer.
This is also why chat in a game like WoW is full of spam. You have no negative side effects if you spam it.
So, the entire notion that global chat = spam is actually just false. Lack of consequence plus global chat could equal spam, but you need both.
Even in L2, a game with diret teleportation, I couldn't give a flying fuck about someone on the other side of the world. Why in the hell would I need a global chat? I want to interact with people that I can see and with people in my location, in case there's a PKer or some pvp going down right around the corner.
See, I interact with the whole server, whether they are in front of me or not.
If you only want to interact with people in your characters line of sight, that's kind of weird, but OK.
In Ashes, the most likely channel type I see being used are node clusters, so a metropolis and all its vassal nodes, and potentially people in nearby non vassal nodes.
This was one of your worst arguments so far, Noaani.
P.S. a ton of private L2 servers make one of the channel types (like shout or trade) global. You know what that does? It leads to pointless spam and useless convos between people that got nothing to do with each other (and this chat then has to be limited to only high lvl characters, in order to avoid bot spam and stuff like that).
AND EVEN THEN people use vicinity chat when they see each other, because spamming the fucking global chat when you're literally seeing each other is the most asinine thing I could think of.
Yeah, it isn't surprising that people on a private server of a game play the game in much the same way they did on the live version of the game.
Yeah, it isn't surprising that people on a private server of a game play the game in much the same way they did on the live version of the game.
Dude, seriously, you need to stop your nonsense. Stop talking about something you have no idea about. You don't even realize how much spam, including spam from RMTers was there on official servers.
Just stop, this is just shocking
How come you spoke about your IRL work experience, that seemingly required a somewhat developed adult brain, but you can't compehend a simple thing, that when you talk about something you have ZERO knowledge about - you just make yourself look stupid.
Just HOW? How is that so difficult to understand? How is it possible to be so desperate while trying to prove your point... like THAT? With this "quality" of arguments and counterpoints. It gets to the point that somewhere deep inside I start feeling sorry for you because if that's the way you talk.... ughhh...
I always thought that the longer you do something, the more you actually learn - whether you want it or not. How come after 15,190 comments written on this forum you fail to understand the basic rules of discussion?
Yeah, it isn't surprising that people on a private server of a game play the game in much the same way they did on the live version of the game.
Dude, seriously, you need to stop your nonsense. Stop talking about something you have no idea about. You don't even realize how much spam, including spam from RMTers was there on official servers.
I know I don't, that's why I wasn't commenting on it.
I was commenting on people on L2 private servers still using local chat - which I know they did because NiKr said they do.
You need to stop with that bullshit.
Next time you read a post of mine and think I am talking about something you think I don't know about, just assume you read it wrong.
Next time you read a post of mine and think I am talking about something you think I don't know about, just assume you read it wrong.
xDDDDD thank you, you made me laugh for a few seconds. Throughout these 18 pages you haven't even made ANY false statements about the game you never played, right? Yeah, not a single one xDDD Everyone saw that and I called you out on it multiple times.
You just can't be serious.
You know perfectly well that you wrote a bunch of nonsense in this thread and you are not brave enough to admit it, or at least to change the way you handle the conversation.
Throughout these 18 pages you haven't even made ANY false statements about the game you never played, right?
Not one.
Every comment I have made about L2 for the last several years is based mostly on what NiKr has told me of the game, and my thoughts on what he has said.
The above is a perfect example of that. NiKr said people on L2 use local chat, and after discussion as to why we concluded that it is because the game didn't offer a better option. When NiKr said that on private servers that do offer a global chat, people still use local, to which I commented that people tend to stick with what they are familiar with in a game, even if other options are given later.
In that entire exchange, the only actual information about L2 was from NiKr. All of my comments in it, if you actually took the time to read, were reactions to what NiKr said - yet you accused me of commenting on something I knew nothing about.
Again, you need to stop that bullshit - you've done exactly that a few times already.
Again, you need to stop that bullshit - you've done exactly that a few times already.
Ah yes, the old classic "accuse your opponent in something that you do while also denying that you do it yourself". Typical manipulation trick that any 5yo kid knows about. Ain't gonna work
In that entire exchange, the only actual information about L2 was from NiKr. All of my comments in it, if you actually took the time to read, were reactions to what NiKr said - yet you accused me of commenting on something I knew nothing about.
Alright, here comes the compilation of bs you wrote about the game you know nothing about:
So, the obvious, no nonsense conclusion here is that this kind of behavior happened in L2 because the developers did not provide it's players with enough valued content
False statement
Not sure if you need me to write this for you but, it is unreasonable to argue with noaani when it comes to Lineage 2, he did not play the game and is clueless about many specific information of the game and he tries to reason using whatever he assumes to be a fact about the game through said flawed reasoning."
As we can all see, the thing people are asking for didn't work in L2, so why ask for it in Ashes if we know it doesn't do the thing people are wanting it to do?
False generalization "as we all can see" - tf you talking about dude?
+ Intentional twisting of facts
Again, you have no idea if you were helping out, how much you were helping out, or if you were hurting the player in L2. If health information is shown, then you are better able to work this out. If class information was also readily shown in L2, it would have solved the issue you are talking about here.
Wrong assumption. You wouldn't make it if you knew what you were talking about, but you don't
Saying you use local chat in L2 when you are only using it because the game doesn't offer you a better options isn't a great argument for either L2 or local chat.If you were using local chat in a game that had global chat channels and custom channels, then I'd have some more questions.
This was one of your worst arguments so far, Noaani.
Called out for your nonsense again
I could also attach even more examples from another topic, but the list is long enough already. You're not gonna win any debate or prove your point in a discussion with arguments like this, kid. Yes, I'm calling you a kid because you act like one. You should be ashamed of such behavior as a normal adult human being but it's obvious that you aren't. Sad
Alright, here comes the compilation of bs you wrote about the game you know nothing about
I would love to reply to this, but since you can't quote properly, I can't.
Each post on the forums has a unique identifier. When you quote someone, that is the number next to the name of the poster you quoted as you are typing (I am talking about his kind of thing [ quote="Flanker;c-472623 ], but without the two spaces). The number for the post of yours I have quoted above is, as I have just typed out, 472623.
When you quote someone, and your post says that posters name (referring to where it says Flanker wrote: » in this post), those two arrows allow someone to click on them and bring them directly to the post in question.
Rather than quoting properly, like a normal forum poster, you have instead quoted the same post over and over again (472621, my post directly above yours), pasting in text from different posts. This means I can't navigate back to the posts you are talking about in order to pull context in.
I don't know if that is just lack of knowledge for how to use a forum, or if you did it purposefully, deceitfully. However, since you have shown that you know how to multi-quote, and you have quoted one additional post of mine above (470966, the post you referred to as '1'), I more inclined to assume it is an attempt at deceit.
Either way, you have done it in a way that makes it impossible to reply to you.
If you are going to call someone out on the forums, at least know how basic forum functionality works.
Feel free to either edit the above post with the correct quotes, or try again with the correct quotes.
Edit to add, based on how you must have ended up with the monstrosity of a post you have above, I am getting those stalker vibes from you again.
Alright, here comes the compilation of bs you wrote about the game you know nothing about
I would love to reply to this, but since you can't quote properly, I can't.
Each post on the forums has a unique identifier. When you quote someone, that is the number next to the name of the poster you quoted as you are typing (I am talking about his kind of thing [ quote="Flanker;c-472623 ], but without the two spaces). The number for the post of yours I have quoted above is, as I have just typed out, 472623.
When you quote someone, and your post says that posters name (referring to where it says Flanker wrote: » in this post), those two arrows allow someone to click on them and bring them directly to the post in question.
Rather than quoting properly, like a normal forum poster, you have instead quoted the same post over and over again (472621, my post directly above yours), pasting in text from different posts. This means I can't navigate back to the posts you are talking about in order to pull context in.
I don't know if that is just lack of knowledge for how to use a forum, or if you did it purposefully, deceitfully. However, since you have shown that you know how to multi-quote, and you have quoted one additional post of mine above (470966, the post you referred to as '1'), I more inclined to assume it is an attempt at deceit.
Either way, you have done it in a way that makes it impossible to reply to you.
If you are going to call someone out on the forums, at least know how basic forum functionality works.
Feel free to either edit the above post with the correct quotes, or try again with the correct quotes.
Edit to add, based on how you must have ended up with the monstrosity of a post you have above, I am getting those stalker vibes from you again.
I quote in a way that is comfortable to me - it's readabale and accurate. Don't care about this forum nerd stuff, I'll leave it to you. You are trying to pretend that what I wrote above is not true simply because I quoted the way you didn't like. Hilarious.
And I don't care what kind of "stalker vibes" you get. Here is a definition for you "a person who stalks : a person who pursues someone obsessively and aggressively to the point of harassment" - which is clearly not the case despite you trying to pretend it is. I don't pursue you, I just call you out for the bs you wrote publicly.
I just made a few clicks on a public forum where you shared your comments for everyone to see and called you out for that. Nothing about it actual "stalking", it's more of OSINT. Here is a definition for you to learn: "Open source intelligence (OSINT) is the collection and analysis of data gathered from open sources (overt sources and publicly available information) to produce actionable intelligence."
As I said, playing a victim card is a popular trend, but you trying to use it make the whole situation even more ridiculous than it already is.
I quote in a way that is comfortable to me - it's readabale and accurate.
It isn't accurate though.
Your post is saying that "in post 472621, I said 'As we can all see, the thing people are asking for didn't work in L2, so why ask for it in Ashes if we know it doesn't do the thing people are wanting it to do?'". That is what a quote does, it tells people not just what was said, but where it was said.
With that in mind, your above post is factually incorrect, because that is not where I said that, if indeed I said it at all.
If you can't be bothered being accurate when you are calling people out, you have no business calling people out for not being accurate.
With that in mind, your above post is factually incorrect, because that is not where I said that, if indeed I said it at all.
Ahaha yeah, keep saying that as if it actually changed anything. You were called out publicly by several people but you still dare to deny it. Pure clownery
If you can't be bothered being accurate when you are calling people out, you have no business calling people out for not being accurate.
Once again, I called you out multiple times including quoting your messages the way you desribed. The point still stands whether you agree or not - it doesn't matter. You are cornered again and you keep making up the weirdest and dumbest excuses. That's pathetic
Once again, I called you out multiple times including quoting your messages the way you desribed. The point still stands whether you agree or not - it doesn't matter.
You didn't call me out.
You took some things out of context, and did it in a way where there is no real means or reason to respond.
As an example, a number of the things you have misquoted me as saying above are as a result of years of discussion with NiKr, with that discussion including comparisons to other games. In the context of those discussions, the specific comment(s) I am talking about are factually true and correct. However, you have pulled context away.
I have just noteiced that even the post you qupted from NiKr was misquoted, so I can't even go back to what he said in order to point out that the comment in quesiton wasn't even in relation to something I was saying about L2.
Honestly dude, quote properly. You've made a mess here.
I'm only here to argue with anyone that has anything bad to say about L2. Even if what they say is true, I'm going to argue with it.
Well, you just proved my point. This is what misquoting actually is, because I never said it and you intentionally made a wrong quote (as an example in this case).
The things that I quoted (despite not doing it the way you prefer) are accurate. See the difference? Oh, wait, of course you don't, I forgot.
Same story again, you keep making irrelevant arguments that are not about the subject of the conversation. You did that multiple times and that happened basically every time when you got cornered and had nothing to say. Keep squirming for as long as you want, it's not gonna help you anyway
I'm only here to argue with anyone that has anything bad to say about L2. Even if what they say is true, I'm going to argue with it.
Well, you just proved my point. This is what misquoting actually is
No, I proved my point.
The only way to know if any given quote is accurate is for the quote to be done properly.
Changing where someone said something is no different to changing what they said - and you quoted me as saying things in a place I demonstrably did not say them.
Changing where someone said something is no different to changing what they said - and you quoted me as saying things in a place I demonstrably did not say them.
Point out which of those quotes are not accurate and show that you didn't actually say that
Changing where someone said something is no different to changing what they said - and you quoted me as saying things in a place I demonstrably did not say them.
Point out which of those quotes are not accurate and show that you didn't actually say that
Almost all of them are inaccurate.
The only quote of me in that post that is accurate is the initial one. All others are inaccurate.
I thought the scaling of chat from private messages and then to party, clan, alliance and throw in trade is quite reasonable.
Localize the public ones, with a global one thrown in as well for a select / privilaged few.
.
Why is local chat being criticized?
Because in most games (all that I have ever played) it isn't really used.
This is mostly due to most games having significantly better options for this kind of thing. In games where local chat (or any form of proximity based chat) is where the bulk of socalizing outside of your existing circle happens, it stifles that socalizing in a fairly significant way.
With the exception of one-on-one socalizing, in order for proximity based chat to work, you need to be close to the person (obviously). This means that in a game like Ashes, you are probably competing for the same content.resources, and are rivals for the moment. In a situation where you have chat channels with more of a reach, you don't need to be nearby (obviously), meaning you can better talk to people at points in time where you aren't direct rivals, but can still talk to them while you are.
My main point here is that the *only* argument against wider reaching channels that I am aware of is spam - be it player or RMT. This is not something that gets out of hand in games where there are player enforced consequences. If you have those player enforced consequences, then it is obviously better to have wider reaching chat channels, and any and all other issues that someone could possibly concieve are dealt an immediate blow by the notion of custom chat channels.
Those custom chat channels are the other thing to keep in mind. If players are free to create a chat channel and invite anyone they like and set their own moderators for that channel, I really can't see how anyone can have any issue at all. The notion that more communication is bad is something that I really can't see anyone want to argue.
Global chats can be disabled (in solid MMOs...), if someone doesn't like them. As for many things: The more options and diversity is available for real player choice, the better.
But: Why is there a discussion about chat going on? Isn't this something trivial and default in a MMO and not really a huge deal? There must be several different and solid chat possibilities and all of them the player should be able to enable or disable to his will and choice. That's it. Chats, combat logs, whatever. What's the real issue? Use it, or disable it - no?
It's still (?) about health points bars and whether this information is visible or not followed up with different possible consequences. The current implemenation is a compromise and testing will show, whether that's fine or not.
For me pesonally I stick to my opinion that I like seeing all information at every time possible, so that's also valid for health points. I'm in general still fine with the 25% indication, which is a compromise. Within 20+ MMOs, health points are shown - always. There seems to be a minority of MMOs (L2, ...?) that do not use visible health bars. Usually one must not stick to the exception of the rule, but to the rule - and the rule is: Provide all information to the player. And yes, with all consequences afterwards.
Tbh, it's not a huge deal for me (personally), that there are no or partly visible health bars before the fight, but, for me it's a very, very huge deal to miss out this information during combat, because I really want to have a responsive UI and I want to get feedback from the actions happening on the screen, so damage, healing, buffs, debuffs, whatever. For me the gameplay and the pvp is just from better quality then - as I've stated already before. Again, my personal opinion and experience. If I'm throwing a big punch with my twohanded sword against an opponent, yes, then I want to see the (maybe-big-crit) numbers showing up and the HP decreasing on the health bar of my enemy. Why? Because it's fun and I want to get that feedback and information.
L2 was specifically designed in a way where players will fight over base tier farming spots - the kinds of locations a solo player or a small group of three or four would farm for hours on end.
So, the obvious, no nonsense conclusion here is that this kind of behavior happened in L2 because the developers did not provide it's players with enough valued content
As we can all see, the thing people are asking for didn't work in L2, so why ask for it in Ashes if we know it doesn't do the thing people are wanting it to do?
I suppose that's enough. Out of all people on this forum, you are the only one whining about it. Mr Not-So-Prominent representative of aggressive local fauna. If you are doing this, it's basically a sign that you got literally 0 better arguments.
Those are your words and that's the bs you wrote yourself. That's the bs multiple people called you out for.
It still shocks me how after 15,000 messages you haven't learned anything. I mean, if we assume that writing a comment takes roughly 1 minute, then you spent 15000 minutes on this, which is roughly ~250 hours. I mean, you could reach B1 level in a foreign language in 250 hours, but you still can barely put two words together when it comes to the actual discussion.
Global chats can be disabled (in solid MMOs...), if someone doesn't like them. As for many things: The more options and diversity is available for real player choice, the better.
But: Why is there a discussion about chat going on? Isn't this something trivial and default in a MMO and not really a huge deal? There must be several different and solid chat possibilities and all of them the player should be able to enable or disable to his will and choice. That's it. Chats, combat logs, whatever. What's the real issue? Use it, or disable it - no?
L2, which is the game most of the people arging against this form of chat spent a lot of time in, didn't have a global chat at all, and so naturally they don't see the need for it, and are talking up the negative aspects of it without really considering the implications of the positive side, nor even how to reduce those negative aspects.
But: Why is there a discussion about chat going on? Isn't this something trivial and default in a MMO and not really a huge deal? There must be several different and solid chat possibilities and all of them the player should be able to enable or disable to his will and choice. That's it. Chats, combat logs, whatever. What's the real issue? Use it, or disable it - no?
Because the moment @Noaani has nothing to say, he starts talking about irrelevant stuff and jumps from one topic to another due to lack of knowledge and arguments.
But: Why is there a discussion about chat going on? Isn't this something trivial and default in a MMO and not really a huge deal? There must be several different and solid chat possibilities and all of them the player should be able to enable or disable to his will and choice. That's it. Chats, combat logs, whatever. What's the real issue? Use it, or disable it - no?
Because the moment Noaani has nothing to say, he starts talking about irrelevant stuff and jumps from one topic to another due to lack of knowledge and arguments.
NiKr was the one that bought up chat channels, not me.
L2, which is the game most of the people arging against this form of chat spent a lot of time in, didn't have a global chat at all, and so naturally they don't see the need for it, and are talking up the negative aspects of it without really considering the implications of the positive side, nor even how to reduce those negative aspects.
OMG, yes it HAD IT. But it was limited to HEROES ONLY. You've been told that and now you are lying again, this time - knowingly. That global chat was useful, but it could be turned off, if player doesn't want it. And even with ~35 players having access to it, it could get pretty spammy even when moderated by in-game admins or moderators.
L2, which is the game most of the people arging against this form of chat spent a lot of time in, didn't have a global chat at all, and so naturally they don't see the need for it, and are talking up the negative aspects of it without really considering the implications of the positive side, nor even how to reduce those negative aspects.
OMG, yes it HAD IT. But it was limited to HEROES ONLY. You've been told that and now you are lying again, this time - knowingly. That global chat was useful, but it could be turned off, if player doesn't want it. And even with ~35 players having access to it, it could get pretty spammy even when moderated by in-game admins or moderators.
In addition to this, 3 random screenshots from a random L2 longplay video. Blue text = global chat
Comments
And you're also literally proving my point for me. You say that people can ignore global if they want, but you claim that it'll have important info there, so what exactly are people supposed to do? You also say that people will talk/banter there, but it's somehow supposed to NOT be spammy, while also still be important? Those 2 things don't really work together.
And the main benefit for my point is you saying that all the stuff I'm talking about will be spread through guild discords and stuff like that. Which is exactly what I already said. Guilds having people that will give them info directly and in private, instead of globally. And even if there is a global chat - that info (when it comes not from a random dude walking by) would not be spread in global, which simply proves that truly important info will not be posted there.
So, once again, global chat will be spammed by random bs from random people all across a 10k-player server. And if you wanna know how that will feel - go to any big streamer who has his chat flying by faster than a jet and try having a normal conversation with another person w/o going to dms. You'd have to constantly stop the chat by scrolling up and reading what the other person said.
Server is not a community. Server is a world (a realm, if you may). And then within that world you have your communities in the form of nodes, alliances and guilds. And those chats will be global, will be used to spread good info for and about the people within those communities and will be act-uponable by those very people, because not only will the scale of it all be smaller, but the distance between people will quite likely be way shorter as well (unless someone decides to travel to the other side of the world).
Global chat is just another tool of the single mmo players, because they want the sense of community w/o joining one.
Whatever
Why are we even talking about this in this thread? It has nothing to do with the topic
And those people in your guild could very well have their sense of community also enjoy global chat as well. Your dislike of it doesn't mean other people will share your thoughts even if being in your guild / discord. If anything people in your discord if its a node one might be more inclined to liking elements of talking in general including global chats since they are more social.
Also you aren't making any argument against it with that point, you just don't' like it so id say don't interact with it. As you don't like that nebulous global chat. Having played some current mmorpgs and having played throne and liberty betas and such (and playing for launch) the nebulous global chat is fine and good. Times are changing and you need to move away from how things were 20 years ago.
2 things work together really well actually, if you are that stuck up and stubborn you can fully ignore global chat and be fine. Based on your position on the server the higher more more valuable the information could be for you at times. Also you alone don't need to read all comments, that isn't how communication works. If something is treading people will know about it (ie being important).
You are talking about chat flying like streamers yet again, if you have played any modern mmorpgs it would show your point doesn't stand. And I'd have to seriously ask what current mmorpgs have you really played and actually sunk in time, or tried to be competitive and pay attention to the community? What you are saying doesn't really match up with what goes on in reality with global chats that are set up correctly.
Naa the server is all part of one universal community that comes together with other large and small communities, with a server having its own history and such.
If global chat helps give them a sense of community that is great, they interact and can meet people and make groups. The thing is smaller communities on that game server also use global chat even more so.
If you are against global chat simply don't use it, it doesn't mean information on it won't reach you if its relevant. How people want to paly the game, and connect to people should be empowered. How things were 20 years ago were not good lmao.
In EQ2, you would sometimes see someone spamming in global chat. People just ignored them. That person would then level up (it was always a new person, almost always someone from WoW) and then complain on the forums that they couldn't find a group or guild. It wouldn't be long before someone would point out to them that 90%+ of the server had them on ignore, so their best bet was to reroll with a new character.
This is why chat spam wasn't a thing, being on ignore made you suffer.
This is also why chat in a game like WoW is full of spam. You have no negative side effects if you spam it.
So, the entire notion that global chat = spam is actually just false. Lack of consequence plus global chat could equal spam, but you need both. See, I interact with the whole server, whether they are in front of me or not.
If you only want to interact with people in your characters line of sight, that's kind of weird, but OK.
In Ashes, the most likely channel type I see being used are node clusters, so a metropolis and all its vassal nodes, and potentially people in nearby non vassal nodes.
Yeah, it isn't surprising that people on a private server of a game play the game in much the same way they did on the live version of the game.
Just stop, this is just shocking
How come you spoke about your IRL work experience, that seemingly required a somewhat developed adult brain, but you can't compehend a simple thing, that when you talk about something you have ZERO knowledge about - you just make yourself look stupid.
Just HOW? How is that so difficult to understand? How is it possible to be so desperate while trying to prove your point... like THAT? With this "quality" of arguments and counterpoints. It gets to the point that somewhere deep inside I start feeling sorry for you because if that's the way you talk.... ughhh...
I always thought that the longer you do something, the more you actually learn - whether you want it or not. How come after 15,190 comments written on this forum you fail to understand the basic rules of discussion?
I was commenting on people on L2 private servers still using local chat - which I know they did because NiKr said they do.
You need to stop with that bullshit.
Next time you read a post of mine and think I am talking about something you think I don't know about, just assume you read it wrong.
You just can't be serious.
You know perfectly well that you wrote a bunch of nonsense in this thread and you are not brave enough to admit it, or at least to change the way you handle the conversation.
Every comment I have made about L2 for the last several years is based mostly on what NiKr has told me of the game, and my thoughts on what he has said.
The above is a perfect example of that. NiKr said people on L2 use local chat, and after discussion as to why we concluded that it is because the game didn't offer a better option. When NiKr said that on private servers that do offer a global chat, people still use local, to which I commented that people tend to stick with what they are familiar with in a game, even if other options are given later.
In that entire exchange, the only actual information about L2 was from NiKr. All of my comments in it, if you actually took the time to read, were reactions to what NiKr said - yet you accused me of commenting on something I knew nothing about.
Again, you need to stop that bullshit - you've done exactly that a few times already.
Alright, here comes the compilation of bs you wrote about the game you know nothing about:
1 False statement
2 False statement
3 So, the obvious, no nonsense conclusion here is that this kind of behavior happened in L2 because the developers did not provide it's players with enough valued content
False statement
4 Other person called you out on the same thing
5. Intentional twisting of the facts, another desperate manipulation attempt
6. False generalization "as we all can see" - tf you talking about dude?
+ Intentional twisting of facts
7. Oh, you getting called out on your nonsense and inability to comprehend simply things again.
8. Wrong assumption that has been debunked further
9. Wrong assumption
10. Wrong assumption. You wouldn't make it if you knew what you were talking about, but you don't
11. False assumption as the point you replied to is still valid in 2024
12. False statement and false assumption
13. Called out for your nonsense again
I could also attach even more examples from another topic, but the list is long enough already. You're not gonna win any debate or prove your point in a discussion with arguments like this, kid. Yes, I'm calling you a kid because you act like one. You should be ashamed of such behavior as a normal adult human being but it's obvious that you aren't. Sad
I would love to reply to this, but since you can't quote properly, I can't.
Each post on the forums has a unique identifier. When you quote someone, that is the number next to the name of the poster you quoted as you are typing (I am talking about his kind of thing [ quote="Flanker;c-472623 ], but without the two spaces). The number for the post of yours I have quoted above is, as I have just typed out, 472623.
When you quote someone, and your post says that posters name (referring to where it says Flanker wrote: » in this post), those two arrows allow someone to click on them and bring them directly to the post in question.
Rather than quoting properly, like a normal forum poster, you have instead quoted the same post over and over again (472621, my post directly above yours), pasting in text from different posts. This means I can't navigate back to the posts you are talking about in order to pull context in.
I don't know if that is just lack of knowledge for how to use a forum, or if you did it purposefully, deceitfully. However, since you have shown that you know how to multi-quote, and you have quoted one additional post of mine above (470966, the post you referred to as '1'), I more inclined to assume it is an attempt at deceit.
Either way, you have done it in a way that makes it impossible to reply to you.
If you are going to call someone out on the forums, at least know how basic forum functionality works.
Feel free to either edit the above post with the correct quotes, or try again with the correct quotes.
Edit to add, based on how you must have ended up with the monstrosity of a post you have above, I am getting those stalker vibes from you again.
And I don't care what kind of "stalker vibes" you get. Here is a definition for you "a person who stalks : a person who pursues someone obsessively and aggressively to the point of harassment" - which is clearly not the case despite you trying to pretend it is. I don't pursue you, I just call you out for the bs you wrote publicly.
I just made a few clicks on a public forum where you shared your comments for everyone to see and called you out for that. Nothing about it actual "stalking", it's more of OSINT. Here is a definition for you to learn: "Open source intelligence (OSINT) is the collection and analysis of data gathered from open sources (overt sources and publicly available information) to produce actionable intelligence."
As I said, playing a victim card is a popular trend, but you trying to use it make the whole situation even more ridiculous than it already is.
It isn't accurate though.
Your post is saying that "in post 472621, I said 'As we can all see, the thing people are asking for didn't work in L2, so why ask for it in Ashes if we know it doesn't do the thing people are wanting it to do?'". That is what a quote does, it tells people not just what was said, but where it was said.
With that in mind, your above post is factually incorrect, because that is not where I said that, if indeed I said it at all.
If you can't be bothered being accurate when you are calling people out, you have no business calling people out for not being accurate.
Once again, I called you out multiple times including quoting your messages the way you desribed. The point still stands whether you agree or not - it doesn't matter. You are cornered again and you keep making up the weirdest and dumbest excuses. That's pathetic
You took some things out of context, and did it in a way where there is no real means or reason to respond.
As an example, a number of the things you have misquoted me as saying above are as a result of years of discussion with NiKr, with that discussion including comparisons to other games. In the context of those discussions, the specific comment(s) I am talking about are factually true and correct. However, you have pulled context away.
I have just noteiced that even the post you qupted from NiKr was misquoted, so I can't even go back to what he said in order to point out that the comment in quesiton wasn't even in relation to something I was saying about L2.
Honestly dude, quote properly. You've made a mess here.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised, I mean;
The things that I quoted (despite not doing it the way you prefer) are accurate. See the difference? Oh, wait, of course you don't, I forgot.
Same story again, you keep making irrelevant arguments that are not about the subject of the conversation. You did that multiple times and that happened basically every time when you got cornered and had nothing to say. Keep squirming for as long as you want, it's not gonna help you anyway
The only way to know if any given quote is accurate is for the quote to be done properly.
Changing where someone said something is no different to changing what they said - and you quoted me as saying things in a place I demonstrably did not say them.
Almost all of them are inaccurate.
The only quote of me in that post that is accurate is the initial one. All others are inaccurate.
What mroe specific do you want than "all the times you quoted me other than the first are inaccurate"?
You asked me to tell you which ones are not accurate, I told you which ones. I literally answered your question as written.
Localize the public ones, with a global one thrown in as well for a select / privilaged few.
.
Why is local chat being criticized?
Because in most games (all that I have ever played) it isn't really used.
This is mostly due to most games having significantly better options for this kind of thing. In games where local chat (or any form of proximity based chat) is where the bulk of socalizing outside of your existing circle happens, it stifles that socalizing in a fairly significant way.
With the exception of one-on-one socalizing, in order for proximity based chat to work, you need to be close to the person (obviously). This means that in a game like Ashes, you are probably competing for the same content.resources, and are rivals for the moment. In a situation where you have chat channels with more of a reach, you don't need to be nearby (obviously), meaning you can better talk to people at points in time where you aren't direct rivals, but can still talk to them while you are.
My main point here is that the *only* argument against wider reaching channels that I am aware of is spam - be it player or RMT. This is not something that gets out of hand in games where there are player enforced consequences. If you have those player enforced consequences, then it is obviously better to have wider reaching chat channels, and any and all other issues that someone could possibly concieve are dealt an immediate blow by the notion of custom chat channels.
Those custom chat channels are the other thing to keep in mind. If players are free to create a chat channel and invite anyone they like and set their own moderators for that channel, I really can't see how anyone can have any issue at all. The notion that more communication is bad is something that I really can't see anyone want to argue.
But: Why is there a discussion about chat going on? Isn't this something trivial and default in a MMO and not really a huge deal? There must be several different and solid chat possibilities and all of them the player should be able to enable or disable to his will and choice. That's it. Chats, combat logs, whatever. What's the real issue? Use it, or disable it - no?
It's still (?) about health points bars and whether this information is visible or not followed up with different possible consequences. The current implemenation is a compromise and testing will show, whether that's fine or not.
For me pesonally I stick to my opinion that I like seeing all information at every time possible, so that's also valid for health points. I'm in general still fine with the 25% indication, which is a compromise. Within 20+ MMOs, health points are shown - always. There seems to be a minority of MMOs (L2, ...?) that do not use visible health bars. Usually one must not stick to the exception of the rule, but to the rule - and the rule is: Provide all information to the player. And yes, with all consequences afterwards.
Tbh, it's not a huge deal for me (personally), that there are no or partly visible health bars before the fight, but, for me it's a very, very huge deal to miss out this information during combat, because I really want to have a responsive UI and I want to get feedback from the actions happening on the screen, so damage, healing, buffs, debuffs, whatever. For me the gameplay and the pvp is just from better quality then - as I've stated already before. Again, my personal opinion and experience. If I'm throwing a big punch with my twohanded sword against an opponent, yes, then I want to see the (maybe-big-crit) numbers showing up and the HP decreasing on the health bar of my enemy. Why? Because it's fun and I want to get that feedback and information.
Alright, here are the quotes THE WAY YOU WANT THEM TO BE. Just a few, cuz I have no desire to spend more time on this. Others are the same though
2
3.
5.
6.
I suppose that's enough. Out of all people on this forum, you are the only one whining about it. Mr Not-So-Prominent representative of aggressive local fauna. If you are doing this, it's basically a sign that you got literally 0 better arguments.
Those are your words and that's the bs you wrote yourself. That's the bs multiple people called you out for.
It still shocks me how after 15,000 messages you haven't learned anything. I mean, if we assume that writing a comment takes roughly 1 minute, then you spent 15000 minutes on this, which is roughly ~250 hours. I mean, you could reach B1 level in a foreign language in 250 hours, but you still can barely put two words together when it comes to the actual discussion.
L2, which is the game most of the people arging against this form of chat spent a lot of time in, didn't have a global chat at all, and so naturally they don't see the need for it, and are talking up the negative aspects of it without really considering the implications of the positive side, nor even how to reduce those negative aspects.
That is basically all it comes down to.
What's your issue dude?
In addition to this, 3 random screenshots from a random L2 longplay video. Blue text = global chat