What features you dislike in MMOs and hope Ashes won't have?

As each MMORPGs have some good features (GW2 mounts, crafting system of SWG, housing of Wildstar *RIP* etc), they have some bad ones as well. They tend to have very similar features to WoW and other traditional MMORPGs which most people dislike and think they're outdated. There are two features I see in MMOs and despise. One of them is the 'artificial' feel most of MMOs in which case you just click stuff to do things with the mouse pointer (kills the immersion and looks ugly tbh). The other is boring and non skill based combat (both action: spamming abilities in order and tab: pressing buttons at the right time...) So, what features you don't want to see in Ashes of Creation?

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consultant

because the process was so streamlined you essentially go brain dead, and only do the most basic rout strategies to get things done

Above statement was posted in reference to automated group finder.

In my particualar case my class was made too overpowered so I only had to push few buttons. Well it was months before it got nerfed. Thought to myself well it was good while it lasted no big deal. Talking about pvp by the way.

But then something really strange happened my mind was no longer used to using every ability I had in order to win just same four or five buttons. So after my class got nerfed (justly so) I was actually a worst player than before my class got buffed. So I had to stop pvping and train on target dummy and dungeouns to get my edge back.

So like if you put a puzzle quest in WoW Their minds are not trained to do those things and most likely have a real difficult time cause they have to actually think. Their mind is in relax mode instead of problem solving mode.

So if things are overly streamlined then they have to do raids were they have pay attention then it might be difficult for them.

But if content like dungeouns have simple raid mechanics simple puzzles just things were they have to think that will prepare them for more difficult raid.

What would happen if you would put a puzzle quest like the ones in Runescape in WoW. Maybe their brains would go into shock.

An another topic would not like to see drop rated higher than 1 in 1000 in referencce to mounts. 40 man raid one percent mount drop rate is way over 1 in 4000 chance to get. Has to do with statistics one percent chance of item drop well might have do raid 163 times for it to drop not 100. 1 in 4000 chance means for every 40k players there would be ten people that get that mount if they all did the raid. Personal loot for mounts recommended but any other system would work just as well like increasing drop rate in 40 man raid.

Samiel Aurous

loot boxes
xp buffs
energy systems -_- (why would you want to limit me playing your game...)

Marzzo

*Dungeon finder/Group finder menu in general. Have specific locations in the game that funktions as Group finders.
*Flying mounts (kills a game)
*Being able to play the game from one single city/spot (Looking at you wow)
*Meaningless grind (Have challenging, intense trials instead)
*Hardest content in the form of open World bosses and dungeons (Never worked, cant work)
*Teleportation, please, make us use meaningful forms of transportation. Boats, Caravans etc. No stupid fast travel portals.
*Dailies, please, if you want repetable content, make it meaningful and weekly, but dont make it mandatory or necessary.
*No autowalk button
*All high level content focused on 10+ player Groups. Please have some stuff to do for smaller Groups.

Dayuhan

zorish wrote: »

{SNIP}

2- Minimap. I know it's a necessity but I'd prefer a scaled back minimap. It helps a lot, and I swear I get lost a lot, but it helps immersion. Paying attention to landmarks and figuring out a way.

{SNIP}

While I don't think the mini-map should be class-locked or completely removed, I think their is a germ of an idea here. Everyone having a very limited mini-map to begin with, "what our Cartographers could see from Sanctuary" type of map. Then when characters arrive their map is updated with greater detail as they explore. Perhaps even a Mapping skill, or the ability for the character to "make maps" which can be auctioned in-game. Another character could then purchase the map and have their mini-map updated with features of that area found by the mapping character.

Caeryl

Quests that can be completed by literally only following markers and pressing Interact a few times.

Mindless overland ESO style, where at max (and even low) levels, you can afk a few minutes near enemies and you have good odds to still be alive when you get back.

The tedium of FFXIV crafting, being forced to pull from almost every single craft line in order to advance in your own focused one. A little community reliance is nice, not so much when you need it for every damn thing.

Related crafting no-no: complete and utter selfsufficiency where you don’t ever have to interact with another human being

“Stealth” that pretends all NPC are deaf, blind, and have the memory of a goldfish. If we’re loitering around a building crouched by the window, there should be guards coming to investigate.

Magic Man

Just felt like reviving this post 👻 it's always good to hear what people hope not to see in Ashes anyway soo 🍿

torkel56

darkblade wrote: »

What made me quit WoW was feeling that I had to start over again at every expansion. It felt grindy and made me feel like all my efforts from the precious expansions we're for nothing. All my gear became shit every time.

The only way I can think of doing this different is to have a way that you can lose gear.. If not it will come a point were the game needs new content and if the new content gives the same item level or powers then there ain't any meaning in doing it.

Or that the new content gives a small upgrade, that way the older gear is still good, but not the best.

Nagash

torkel56

leonerdo wrote: »

In reply to some other people's mention of daily quests, I think they're important to have in any MMO, and they're only problematic when they are done wrong.

Having a bazillion daily quests, half of which are mundane and boring, is just an abusive way to encourage players to spend way too much time on the game.

Dailies are supposed to have the exact opposite effect. You're supposed to feel rewarded even if you only have an hour or two to play. And they're supposed to limit how much progress you can make from grinding after the daily bonus is gone, so that players with more time don't get too far ahead. And to a lesser extent, they encourage players to try different content because there's usually a daily bonus for each one.

So I think the concept of dailies is still valuable. Weeklies are probably better though, at least for players with inconsistent schedules.

Didnt Steven already say that daily quest aint going to be thing?

If it is a thing Im not sure how it can be done right in ashes. Because there are different towns and cities with different stages to them. Then the dailies most be the same in all towns meaning it will be boring quest.
Like kill 20 rats and bring 10 lizard heads...

If they are going to make different daily quest to all of the towns and cities then it will be an insane amount you can do each day. That will again feel more like a job then something fun..

Magic Man

@torkel56 Daily quests will be a thing but not in the traditional sense.

Will they be dailies? No they won't be in the sense of what we've experienced dailies in the past where you feel so obligated to log in and like you'll miss these things. It's more gonna be focused around like how the world is changing and how the changes in the world relate to your opportunities; and then you know if your location's gonna matter because fast travel is not a thing, where you're located at is going to determine your you know the risk versus reward opportunities that are present; and then depending on the time that those occur. – Steven Sharif

Undead Canuck

Nagash wrote: »

Autumnleaf wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

shitty lore that is copy and pasted off others

looks at WoW

Eh I loved the Warcraft Universe since W3 was my first game, but wow recently is looking really bad, it used to be great but the new developments are headache inducing.

that because early Warcraft was just copied and paste of Warhammer

I heard a rumour that when Blizzard were building Starcraft, they had Marine, Tyranid, and Eldar figures to copy.

Nagash

UndeadCanadianGamer wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

Autumnleaf wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

shitty lore that is copy and pasted off others

looks at WoW

Eh I loved the Warcraft Universe since W3 was my first game, but wow recently is looking really bad, it used to be great but the new developments are headache inducing.

that because early Warcraft was just copied and paste of Warhammer

I heard a rumour that when Blizzard were building Starcraft, they had Marine, Tyranid, and Eldar figures to copy.

I would not put it past them after all starcraft is just Warhammer lite

unknown

This content has been removed.

Damokles

Tsukasa wrote: »

Brainless mobs.
Why is this a thing? They live for years, and all they can do is mindlessly run & swing at you. What about instinct?

*Mobs should have abilities that players need to learn its animation/timing in order to dodge them, instead of facetanking. Facetanking abilities must be always punishable, unless it's designed in a way that somebody has to eat it to protect teammates or prevent full DPS parties or whatever reason.

*The mobs need to think and consider running away or enraging or even evolving out of fear before they die. Maybe get a "frightened" debuff on them when spotting one of their species getting killed.

^
The above shouldn't apply to all mobs or literally-brainless mobs like mushrooms

Yes, it would make it interesting.
Now comes the... but.
I believe that yes, hardcore players would learn all those specific abilities, but Intrepid has to think about casuals too. No one would freely learn the abilities and animations of every different enemy type.

A way to make this more appealing: give all kinds of enemies different and sometimes overlapping movesets.
Humanoids could have skills like: kick(interrupt or knockdown), cheap shot(low duration stun, only like .5sec), sprint, overpower, assault etc
Beasts could have: bite, claw, rend, track, charge, assault, leap, etc
Theye movesets would be accessible to all mobs of that specific category, and those mobs with higher levels would get more abilities with rising levels, that way people would slowly learn about those moves naturally while grindjng/questing.

And then every species has ONE specific ability if the creature has a higher level, like a breath attack for dragons, or other mythical creatures.

Facetanking is important btw, for later raid encounters or dungeons. A tank could just pull the boss all over the rokm, but that would make grouping and positioning pure hell. It is easy to talk about things like dodge tanking, if there are straight up stats that make you dodge.

Magic Man

Damokles wrote: »

Tsukasa wrote: »

Brainless mobs.
Why is this a thing? They live for years, and all they can do is mindlessly run & swing at you. What about instinct?

*Mobs should have abilities that players need to learn its animation/timing in order to dodge them, instead of facetanking. Facetanking abilities must be always punishable, unless it's designed in a way that somebody has to eat it to protect teammates or prevent full DPS parties or whatever reason.

*The mobs need to think and consider running away or enraging or even evolving out of fear before they die. Maybe get a "frightened" debuff on them when spotting one of their species getting killed.

^
The above shouldn't apply to all mobs or literally-brainless mobs like mushrooms

It is easy to talk about things like dodge tanking, if there are straight up stats that make you dodge.

yeah that's the thing really. I think they should make combat less stat based (parry, dodge, miss, hit etc

) If you want to dodge an attack, position yourself. You want to hit the target? Aim and hit it. We know tab target is essentially a math equation so 'active combat mechanics' isn't its thing which is why it'll be interesting to see how hybrid combat interaction with mobs will work

torkel56

Wandering Mist wrote: »

Epy00 wrote: »

I think summoning your mount from your inventory is stupid. I think the concept of having to park your mount somewhere safe, keep it fed, etc. adds to the fun/danger potential.

Be careful what you wish for. Just as too much convenience can take away from the immersion, so can too much "realism" take away from the fun. Red Dead Redemption 2 had horse care like you are describing and it turned that part of the game into a chore.

It's one of those things that sounds fun on paper, but when you actually have to do it regularly it becomes very annoying.

Agree that feeding the horse will just become boring fast. I do like how som mmo game have it so the horse dont vanish when you jump of it. It adds a litle to the game. Down the line mounts might be able to have armor, if we then will be able to color the armor, that would make for some awsome looking mounts.

torkel56

tarros wrote: »

Zorish wrote: »

tarros wrote: »

I just want to point this out about the LFG/LFM functions of a game. It is needed for people who either are casual enough that they do not fit into a guild because their hours will never work with others. There is also the people who just want to play solo and only once in a while want to be part of something bigger.

In my experience most of the time, this turns in like this:

Player 1 joins, P2, p3, etc... kill boss, do dungeon, kill boss. Not even a single word unless you find issues.

It's not always like that, but it feels like taking the bus. You don't engage with strangers. Meanwhile you might talk to your uber driver, somehow there's some sort of rapport.

Also LFG doesn't help newbies either. The functionality is there, you use it, you're a new tank who never tanked, but the game let's you tank. So now you have 3-5 people teaching you to tank or raging at you.
I've seen this happen, and many people using LFG might want to do something fast.

Finally, I understand wanting to play solo, but we're coming back to "cater to every time of gameplay" and in my opinion this is what makes a game lose its identity.
If Dark Souls would have an easy mode, it's not DS anymore. If the game HELPS you isolate yourself and lets you do all content without any other players, it's losing its massive identity as well.

How does that not help a newbie? You either learn through assistance of other people or through being thrown to the wolves. At that point if you did not learn anything than maybe MMOs are not for you.

If dark souls was an MMO it would not be the DS you know now. DS is a single player game and people are purchasing it understanding that there is a set guide line. With ZERO chance of missing out on content since only you the single player can progress the game. On top of that from a business point of view the developers put out a game and whatever happens happens after the game is published. There is no continues large development and loss of resources once it is out there.

Success requires to cater to multiple play styles and you can still obtain the identity of the game. Being a solo player especially in AoC you are already going to miss out on a lot of content. So why make it harder? If AoC is not even remotely casual friendly content wise it will fail. It is a common trend with games that aren't casual friendly. There is FAR more casual players than hardcore players.

I think your wrong. To be good in almost any game, the player needs to put down time and effort.
The world today have guids and information about everything. If a player fails today it will cost him nothing to do a litle bit of research to become better.

The prime example here is WoW classic. The reason it became popular in the first place was that you got in to a open world you had no idea about and it was hard. You as a player had to use you'r head to find a good build and to survive in the world, you made friends because the world was hard and a bad player in your group was better then no group. Then you learned by watching.

It was the same this time around, while I lvled my toon up to 60 I had been in many groups, some bad and some good. I cant remember 1 time anyone kicked another player for the reason of being bad. Those that didnt know what to do, simply asked if anyone else did.
Some of those players I played with for days and I could see the bad players becoming better and better.

EvoW

Wandering Mist wrote: »

I'd also hate to see classes that are either gender or race-locked

I think it could be interesting for some class specs to be specific to races or genders for lore reasons (like a Kunoichi could only be female, as that makes sense). But in terms of the 8 base classes, I agree that they should not be race or gender locked at all.

Damokles

EvoW wrote: »

Wandering Mist wrote: »

I'd also hate to see classes that are either gender or race-locked

I think it could be interesting for some class specs to be specific to races or genders for lore reasons (like a Kunoichi could only be female, as that makes sense). But in terms of the 8 base classes, I agree that they should not be race or gender locked at all.

Well, there will be race specific augments, but i dont like it, when a whole class is locked to one or two races.

Tacualeon

Wololo wrote: »

I dislike it if MMO's dont have a autowalk option, honestly holding W with middlefinger for minutes long makes no sence. Also if you have autowalk and free camera, you can cast skills/dodge while walking and looking 360 making for quick responses when getting attacked from behind.

Give me:
-Autowalk
-Outdoor open world pvp.
-Ways to farm and grind at the usual phase of tab target games.

*I think most veterans will agree that sometimes you come from work and you don't feel like getting into super, intense fast paced combats. Sometimes you want to put some music in the background and chill while grinding.

-Battlegrounds.

*10vs10 is the perfect number, skirmishes are the highlights of MMOs.

-Arenas 2v2, 3v3, 5v5
-Change daily quest to weekly quests.

*Instead of forcing me to login every day for thirty minutes or I'll feel bad if I don't, give me the choice to do them all at once on weekends.

-Wide variety of things to do in the end game:

*Bgs, grinding materials, quests, dungeons, instances.

-Open world bosses
-Five man dungeons.

Spare me:
-All across the world fast travel
--P2W
-Hectic and spammy combat system
-Ability to scan someone's stats or equipment (without permission?)
-LFG. Convenient, but it tends to take away the social part of the games.

*LFG gives you, in a way, anonymity so you don't have to act as a decent human being to preserve your good name. LFG is similar to changing names. There is no consequences for toxicity and no social backlash.

-Empty cities.
-Power creep
-Mobility creep. Specially with the action part of the system.
-Particle and spectacular effects scalation.

*Sometimes MMOs look more like a Blade Runner city than a medieval setup. Particles should be used wisely. The over abundance of what I call "unnatural" colors takes the role playing away, and players start getting used to so many flashy colors in their screen that the only way to keep entertaining them is making bigger and more flashy things like a Michael Bay movie.

-Casino gear upgrade systems.
-Holidays events.
-Bots.
-Homogenization.

*Generalist classes should be rare. Make classes have clear pros and cons.

Can we have something where veteran players offer knowledge and guidance for newbies? Maybe in exchange for temporary loyalty?

Damokles wrote: »

@wanderingmist
It would be cool if everyone got a rough scetching of the areas etc, and then scribes could make better maps. Make it more interactable with the players, like personalized waypoints etc.
It would also be pretty selfexplanatory why it is that way: We came back back after a few eons right? Well a ton can change in a few eons. We are the pioneers in this situation, it would be dumb to have perfect maps of this region ;D

This sounds cool. Make actual exploration a thing.

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