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List the reasons why you would PK somebody that doesn't wanna fight back

George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
edited November 2020 in General Discussion
I would PK:
  1. A person in my server that I have come to dislike.
  2. Some stranger that follows me and attacks my target mobs, ruining my XP gain.
  3. Players from a guild I do not like, but we are not officially in war with.
  4. If I am with my group and we have set out to achieve some goal by the end of the day (kill a raidboss, farm 1000 animal skins for an armor, gain 2 levels) and there are groups of other players nearby that don't respect unspoken proximity boundaries, I would PK them.
  5. If we come across an enemy guild adventuring and win the fight, I will PK any players in their group that didn't join the fight, unless they immediately teleport back to a node (which from what it seems won't be a thing in AoC), or their fallen friends have respawned away.
  6. If for some reason we fight with a random group of people, out in the open world, I will PK any of their group that didn't join the fight, unless they immediately teleport back to a node, or their fallen friends have respawned away.
  7. If an inrl friend of mine PKs for some reason I don't agree with, I will have to PK any player that targets my friend before we run away together.

What is your reason that you'd PK and risk losing gear upon death while Corrupted?
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Comments

  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited November 2020
    @George Black thanks for this.

    I`m not sure how AoC will play out but I would work within the mechanics to keep it comfortable but to use my L2 days as an example of who I might have PK`ed that didn`t or wouldn't fight back:
    • Someone trash talking to me, just generally prefer less text response and a kill is simpler
    • Someone who stole from me or clan
    • Another clan coming in to take the kill on a boss my clan is in progress killing
    • Defending my own clan in an on the spot fight if no time to question, discuss if agree with the fight later
    • Killing another player to keep own Red clan member safe until they have burned off the karma
    • Known player scammer
    • Player botting, as well as notifying within the game
    • Someone who gave away clan intel to the enemy clan
    • Someone laying claim to an XP spot that I or my group has already been XP`ing in for some time
    • Neutral/clanless player in part with an enemy clan my clan is at war with
    • Perhaps enemy node player in our territory
    • Perhaps if there was a drop like L2 with the sword of zacarie. A swift and ruthless speed run to get the drop where ever it randomly drooped in the world, whereby first to pick up the randomly drop sword gets the power. From the server announcement of it dropping in the world to picking it up was about 40-50 seconds. But the power it yielded to those that could hold on to it gave XP increase at 3-10x usual for the short amount of time held.



  • -I was bored
    -Someone had something I wanted
    -Someone was running their mouth
    -It was monday
    -Because I could
    -I didn't want to share a spawn/loot
    -On a bet
    -Because someone told me I couldn't
    -To foster open world pvp
    -To help people stop thinking they were safe and need to stay on their toes
    -Because I didn't like their character/guild name
    -The list goes on
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    @George Black all of your reasons and:

    1: If you are in my group, and refuse to do boss mechanics correctly.

    2: You run from a fight we could have won if you stayed.
    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • 1. They’re talking shit
    2. I want something I know they have
    3. They’re encroaching on my group’s area
    4. They’re being annoying in some way
    5. They PK’d me in the past
  • I don't know that I would PK someone that doesn't want to fight back. But, that may change once I'm actually in-game, who knows.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    I would PK:
    1. A person in my server that I have come to dislike.
    2. Some stranger that follows me and attacks my target mobs, ruining my XP gain.
    3. Players from a guild I do not like, but we are not officially in war with.
    4. If I am with my group and we have set out to achieve some goal by the end of the day (kill a raidboss, farm 1000 animal skins for an armor, gain 2 levels) and there are groups of other players nearby that don't respect unspoken proximity boundaries, I would PK them.
    5. If we come across an enemy guild adventuring and win the fight, I will PK any players in their group that didn't join the fight, unless they immediately teleport back to a node (which from what it seems won't be a thing in AoC), or their fallen friends have respawned away.
    6. If for some reason we fight with a random group of people, out in the open world, I will PK any of their group that didn't join the fight, unless they immediately teleport back to a node, or their fallen friends have respawned away.
    7. If an inrl friend of mine PKs for some reason I don't agree with, I will have to PK any player that targets my friend before we run away together.

    What is your reason that you'd PK and risk losing gear upon death while Corrupted?
    I'm about the same as this - as far as I am concerned these are all somewhat valid reasons to kill other players, even if corruption gain is involved. I may have differing opinions to you on things like how close that other group could get to me before I attacked them, or how far I would chase people in a group who didn't fight back, but that's about it.
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    1: If you are in my group, and refuse to do boss mechanics correctly.

    2: You run from a fight we could have won if you stayed.

    These two I am unsure about, honestly - though keep in mind I am looking at this from the perspective of leadership in an organized guild, and I would probably agree with them in a more pick-up type setting.

    To me though, in a guild setting, killing players in these situations comes across as a sign of weakness. If I am running a raid, and I have a player that simply will not or can not follow instructions, I won't kill them, I will boot them from the raid. If it is repeated, I will boot them from the guild. If that player is a member of an alliance guild, I will tell the leaders of that guild to sort it out over the next few days, otherwise either they boot him from the guild, or I boot them from the alliance.

    To me, the act of killing a player in these situations (in a guild setting) is more about trying to establish yourself as the alpha, as opposed to being said alpha. If someone in your raid is not following instructions and this is causing things to go poorly, if all you are able to do is boot them from the raid and kill them, and then the next time they aren't following instruction all you are able to do is more of the same, that isn't telling the rest of your raid that you are in control - it is telling your raid that you want to be in control.

    On the other hand, if you boot that player from the raid and then from the guild, or if you have that player booted from their guild that you are not even in, that is telling your raid that you are, indeed, in control.

    This all applies to people running away from a fight as well.

    Again, I am sure this would be different in pick up situations, or in any non-organized situation, and this is what I assume you are talking about. Since most of my MMO experience has been in organized situations (whether PvE or PvP), that is where my head went to with these two situations.
  • I would PK:
    1. A person in my server that I have come to dislike.
    2. Some stranger that follows me and attacks my target mobs, ruining my XP gain.
    3. Players from a guild I do not like, but we are not officially in war with.
    4. If I am with my group and we have set out to achieve some goal by the end of the day (kill a raidboss, farm 1000 animal skins for an armor, gain 2 levels) and there are groups of other players nearby that don't respect unspoken proximity boundaries, I would PK them.
    5. If we come across an enemy guild adventuring and win the fight, I will PK any players in their group that didn't join the fight, unless they immediately teleport back to a node (which from what it seems won't be a thing in AoC), or their fallen friends have respawned away.
    6. If for some reason we fight with a random group of people, out in the open world, I will PK any of their group that didn't join the fight, unless they immediately teleport back to a node, or their fallen friends have respawned away.
    7. If an inrl friend of mine PKs for some reason I don't agree with, I will have to PK any player that targets my friend before we run away together.

    What is your reason that you'd PK and risk losing gear upon death while Corrupted?

    Just gonna start with all these and add on.

    8. Ill be actively using bargain bin gear and specifically hunting down solo gatherers.
    9. If your group attacks me or my fishing buddies you get put on the KoS list.
    10. If i see you gathering something rare outside of fishing.

    That's all I got for now.
    5000x1000px_Sathrago_Commission_RavenJuu.jpg?ex=661327bf&is=6600b2bf&hm=e6652ad4fec65a6fe03abd2e8111482acb29206799f1a336b09f703d4ff33c8b&
    Commissioned at https://fiverr.com/ravenjuu
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    If I am gathering and a person attacks me wearing "bargain bin gear", Ill take that free PvP and whatever resources are forgotten in their pockets...
  • If I am gathering and a person attacks me wearing "bargain bin gear", Ill take that free PvP and whatever resources are forgotten in their pockets...

    Basically, I would roll around in a setup that does well in 1v1s. Since the game is geared towards group pvp that means I would be at a large advantage in most 1v1s. It all depends on what we get to choose from though.
    5000x1000px_Sathrago_Commission_RavenJuu.jpg?ex=661327bf&is=6600b2bf&hm=e6652ad4fec65a6fe03abd2e8111482acb29206799f1a336b09f703d4ff33c8b&
    Commissioned at https://fiverr.com/ravenjuu
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited November 2020
    You are missing a huge one
    1. If they are tulnar
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    @Noaani I get that you are skeptical that I would attack my own teammates for wrong doing. You have to understand where the sentiment comes from.

    It is based around games with high death penalties. In some games death is a minor inconvenience. You die you walk back, an insignificant amount of gold and time is lost. You try again, no big deal.

    In some games, a death can be a noticeable setback. You don't want people to have get away with just letting the team die. If someone is getting out of a fight without a death penalty or causing unnecessary wipes. It may be in the cards that you just kill them to make their death penalty worst.

    AoC is probably not going to be that extreme, but I reserve the right to kill anyone who is causing me a unessearry death penalty. I will probably be more reserved about doing it in AOC. There are times I wish I could flag red in WOW/FFXIV simply because people won't act right. I am also sure that if the option was available I would not be the first to flag if someone deserved it.
    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Noaani I get that you are skeptical that I would attack my own teammates for wrong doing. You have to understand where the sentiment comes from.

    It is based around games with high death penalties. In some games death is a minor inconvenience. You die you walk back, an insignificant amount of gold and time is lost. You try again, no big deal.

    In some games, a death can be a noticeable setback. You don't want people to have get away with just letting the team die. If someone is getting out of a fight without a death penalty or causing unnecessary wipes. It may be in the cards that you just kill them to make their death penalty worst.

    AoC is probably not going to be that extreme, but I reserve the right to kill anyone who is causing me a unessearry death penalty. I will probably be more reserved about doing it in AOC. There are times I wish I could flag red in WOW/FFXIV simply because people won't act right. I am also sure that if the option was available I would not be the first to flag if someone deserved it.
    As I said, I can see it in some situations - just that they are not situations I find myself in very often.

    I can't picture a game where being killed once is more of a setback than being kicked out of a guild taking on the hardest content the game has to offer though, that's what I was trying to get across.

    Again, in pick up content, booting them and killing them is about the best you can do, and that is where I see it as valid. I just don't see it from an organized guild perspective, regardless of the death penalty in the game, unless the game has perma-death - in games with perma-death, booting someone from your group and killing them absolutely is telling your raid that you are the boss.

  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    @George Black all of your reasons and:
    1: If you are in my group, and refuse to do boss mechanics correctly.
    2: You run from a fight we could have won if you stayed.

    That comment put a massive smile on my face.. both with shock and a quiet agreement and a moment of recollection of a series of fights long, long ago!

    Whist I would probably never do, I would certainly think it. I can recall so many time in voice chat after pvp where the sentiment was exactly what you wrote but just did not happen..Mostly when a pvp round or raid went south because of poor coordination such that either a clan member or group felt so wronged. I even recall that I felt so bad for the choice made in a few instances that I was happy to be the fodder next time round if it made amends.
  • The way we handled it in the ESO guild I was in was that the person had a choice: they could either leave and we'll replace them or they could sing an embarrassing song/nursery rhyme over voice comms. They didn't tend to break the rules twice! Hahahaha
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    And yes, the gravity of the death penalty does weigh into the equation.

    If you pvp, die and lose 2% xp that takes:
    • 5min to restore - perhaps not a great deal of gravity
    • 5hrs to reinstate - perhaps something to defend quite seriously

    L2 at high level was very much the side of significant gravity at end game.
  • unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    akabear wrote: »
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    @George Black all of your reasons and:
    1: If you are in my group, and refuse to do boss mechanics correctly.
    2: You run from a fight we could have won if you stayed.

    That comment put a massive smile on my face.. both with shock and a quiet agreement and a moment of recollection of a series of fights long, long ago!

    Whist I would probably never do, I would certainly think it. I can recall so many time in voice chat after pvp where the sentiment was exactly what you wrote but just did not happen..Mostly when a pvp round or raid went south because of poor coordination such that either a clan member or group felt so wronged. I even recall that I felt so bad for the choice made in a few instances that I was happy to be the fodder next time round if it made amends.

    I know most of these are tongue in cheek responses, but don't forget you can't flag on those with the right affiliations. (friends list, party, raid, guild) They are sure to add some sort of cooldown to the ability to attack people you were grouped with because I can already see taking people along for activities, loading them up as pinatas, then kicking them from group at convenient moment, killing them and taking percentages of their stuff. There is also a probable cooldown for leaving and joining a guild coming. So kicking people "for the shizz and gigs" or to get around flagging mechanics is probably going to have some interesting outcomes.
    south-park-rabble-rabble-rabbl-53b58d315aa49.jpg
  • I'd PK someone that purposely disturbs by in-game activity.
    There has to be a distinction though;
    Case 1: You move on someone elses spot and PK to get rid of them - you're a dick.
    Case 2: You grind and someone else is moving in on your spot, you ask them to leave and they refuse - you rightfully PK them to defend your spot.

    In other cases, I'd PK someone if he is from a guild we are at war with or if its a player that has been known to harass and grief guild members or friends.

    All within reason and within acceptable penalties.
    EternalFliPSignature.png
    Eternal Guild
    ( Web | Discord )
  • FliP wrote: »
    Case 1: You move on someone elses spot and PK to get rid of them - you're a dick.

    That's just content in this type of game, those kinds of player driven interactions and conflicts drive the server. An entire war could be started over a simple PK like that.

    The guy's not a dick in my opinion he is just playing the game. Resources are going to be fought and PKed over, including grind spots.
  • FliP wrote: »
    Case 1: You move on someone elses spot and PK to get rid of them - you're a dick.
    Case 2: You grind and someone else is moving in on your spot, you ask them to leave and they refuse - you rightfully PK them to defend your spot.

    There's essentially no difference between these two. It's not "your" resource spot, you just happen to be there. You asking them to leave is irrelevant to the PKing. If you're a dick for PKing them over a resource spot, then it doesn't matter whether or not you've told someone to go away cos you wants da goodies.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • Bricktop wrote: »
    FliP wrote: »
    Case 1: You move on someone elses spot and PK to get rid of them - you're a dick.

    That's just content in this type of game, those kinds of player driven interactions and conflicts drive the server. An entire war could be started over a simple PK like that.

    The guy's not a dick in my opinion he is just playing the game. Resources are going to be fought and PKed over, including grind spots.

    In theory yes, but in practice it's just griefing, especially when there are systems in place to allow such behavior.

    From experience, people will PK other people on grind spots when there is plenty of space for multiple people to grind normally, but some people feel the urge to "own" the spot even though they cannot effectively clear a third of it.
    It can cause a fun war, but more often it will cause a frustrating experience.

    I understand your point, the attacker in this case does not feel he is doing anything wrong because he is doing something the game allows him to do. Yet, he does not have to do it. It's a choice.

    I remember times when MMO communities used to be more civilized and communicate before brainlessly PKing left and right.

    If someone were to send you insults, would he be griefing or playing the game because he is using the built-in chat function?
    Some might say yes, some might say no. It's a matter of perspective.
    EternalFliPSignature.png
    Eternal Guild
    ( Web | Discord )
  • BricktopBricktop Member
    edited November 2020
    FliP wrote: »
    Bricktop wrote: »
    FliP wrote: »
    Case 1: You move on someone elses spot and PK to get rid of them - you're a dick.

    That's just content in this type of game, those kinds of player driven interactions and conflicts drive the server. An entire war could be started over a simple PK like that.

    The guy's not a dick in my opinion he is just playing the game. Resources are going to be fought and PKed over, including grind spots.

    In theory yes, but in practice it's just griefing, especially when there are systems in place to allow such behavior.

    From experience, people will PK other people on grind spots when there is plenty of space for multiple people to grind normally, but some people feel the urge to "own" the spot even though they cannot effectively clear a third of it.
    It can cause a fun war, but more often it will cause a frustrating experience.

    I understand your point, the attacker in this case does not feel he is doing anything wrong because he is doing something the game allows him to do. Yet, he does not have to do it. It's a choice.

    I remember times when MMO communities used to be more civilized and communicate before brainlessly PKing left and right.

    If someone were to send you insults, would he be griefing or playing the game because he is using the built-in chat function?
    Some might say yes, some might say no. It's a matter of perspective.

    You and I have very different opinions on griefing. Personally if somebody started PMing me insults I would click the block button and the whole terrible ordeal would be over and I could move on with my day all in the span of five seconds.
  • Agree to disagree.

    I understand your point, but you don't seem to understand mine, and that's fine.

    Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should be doing it.
    EternalFliPSignature.png
    Eternal Guild
    ( Web | Discord )
  • Hahaha....like I need a reason
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Moderator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I personally wouldn't PK someone who has no intention of fighting back unless I was having a really really bad day. But that's just me.
    volunteer_moderator.gif
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited November 2020
    Bricktop wrote: »
    You and I have very different opinions on griefing. Personally if somebody started PMing me insults I would click the block button and the whole terrible ordeal would be over and I could move on with my day all in the span of five seconds.
    I don't even read in-game chat. Anyone I'd want to talk to would be on Discord at this point.

    (civilized gamer is an oxymoron)
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Hahaha....like I need a reason
    Hahaha....like I need a reason

    Well do I have an offer for you
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • KatakKatak Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited November 2020
    • If they are a bot that is not yet banned. I have faith in the GMing, but I still suspect that we will see some.
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Cause they rolled non-Tulnar.
    Nagash wrote: »
    You are missing a huge one
    1. If they are tulnar

    You miss spelt Elf.
    Not sure how but maybe check you keyboard it might be messing up.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • I will PK people with extreme prejudice who are known to kill harvesters. Harvesters do the work I do not want to do so I can have stuff I can otherwise not have OR have to work for myself.

    So if I know of such a person, I will make their days so miserable until they sod off to another node. Otherwise, PK only in a Siege/War/Guild War scenario (because if you are there, you should be prepared to fight back).

    All other reasons fall under pettiness, wanting to show off my epeen and a waste of my time and the other players' time.

    I forgot rampant and stupid-reasoned PKers who waste a lot of people's time to further their own fun, they are my dearest target. Always loved to follow them around for a week or so until they got their entire guild to put me on their KoS list. :)

    Another favorite pasttime of me was training mobs on bots, but that no longer works properly in any games I know of.
  • I personally wouldn't PK someone who has no intention of fighting back unless I was having a really really bad day. But that's just me.

    Well ideally if you attack someone and they don't fight back, they should at least leave. Just walk away. But if they stand their ground and just get killed like some sort of protest, well they're essentially griefing me at that point. If you don't want to fight that's fine by me, but then you need to leave.
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