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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
"And indeed while forums are amazing for gathering feedback and thoughts on these kinds of things, we do always have to keep in mind that it's only a very small and super passionate subset of the community that will take the time to chime in and respond"
I hope you really listen to us, as we are the only feedback you have, and its been pretty unanimous in the subject.
Please, let us set our own pace and goals! Let us earn them!
To further compound this, I hated it in ESO, hated it in BDO, and I swtg I got an addon for ESO that blocks that part of the UI from even opening. We don't need that, so please look into 14's Vet system, the concept is better and it's not ass tearingly in your face or annoying.
TO help explain the vet system. After so many days of being subbed you get an outfit, it's not based on login at all, you don't even have to login to get it. Once you meet a certain threshold you will get in game mail, it will have a letter saying something about the system and the outfit inside.
Daily rewards are one of the worst things existing in modern mmos. I hate forced content, because it is never fun. I feel annoyed when have to login just to get reward and log off. It sucks out fun I get from playing the game.
One of the reasons I left Rift is login rewards. BONG as the pop up screen fills everything. Congratulations you logged in 5 days in a row here is some vendor trash.... you...can't ...vendor.
Use the time and effort to make the game better. This kind of things feels more like a mini game, taking people out of the world for stuff that should be gotten in the world.
The best I think people should be looking for are annual veteran rewards. These would be granted when the account had 12 consecutive months of subscription, then only a skin or other cosmetic item.
I haven’t watched the stream yet but I sure hope to god he did not say that. That kind of garbage is the absolute WORST type of “login reward” where if you miss a day or dare to spend some time out of the house you get completely screwed over, it’s a spit in the face and absolutely disrespectful to the players.
Consecutive logins are ethically objectionable and highly manipulative. Those are the exact things the we don’t want any part of, and what we were promise to not have. Steven seems to be doing some 180s lately in regards to what we were promised and what he’s actually creating.
I completely agree.
When I play games with this kind of thing, I set up a windows macro to turn my computer on, and log in to the game at about 3am every day. Most games have some way to allow you to log in to a character directly, so you don't need to use a macro in game.
This means you aren't breaking the ToS at all. It could be argued that it is disrespectful to the developers, but if they are going to be disrespectful to players, I'm happy to be disrespectful right back.
Or when we agree with them
No, screw that. RP'ers already made enough concessions. Endless streams of purchasable skins. What you, and many others seem to forget when you say "It's just cosmetics."
A world is shared with many others, a unique look, or a unique look as a group (guild) is very important. To differentiate oneself from others. There are already a ridiculous amount "cosmetics" For me, even that is as bad as just purchasing weapons/armour from an in-game shop. It's very unfair to always go. "It's just cosmetics, it doesn't have a real impact." In an MMO, once gear is obtained at a much slower pace near the end-game. It usually is cosmetics.
And sorry for using WoW as an example again. But. Even those that don't RP. Continue to run old raids constantly to get that "transmog"
So, all things considered, if you do insist on a log-in reward. As the game is now. This is how you do it.
You take into account hours online, which grants you some arbitrary amount of points. Points you can use to purchase something in the shop. Something you can get already. I mean, we're also paying a sub, so surely it won't bankrupt them?
As far as balance goes for the "points" you can put a daily/weekly/monthly limit on them.
I want that if they implement login rewards xD
Of these, my main concern is the first.
Players will do the minimum needed to gain rewards. If the rewards are for just logging in, players will just log in. If the rewards are for being logged in for a period of time, players will be logged in for that period of time. If the rewards are for doing content, players will do that content.
Of these three, I prefer the rewards to be tied to doing the content.
hmm, macro to log in and out without attendance would be equivalent to botting.. I hope that is not premissable
If I wanted to RP I would just play table top D&D. It is and always will be better than any video game. To me there is literally zero point in RPing in any video game ever. That said:
The reason why Steven seems to be coming around on this is because he is seeing how it could positively increase player retention. Cosmetics have zero influence on the game so long as no cosmetics exist in the in game economy. What Steven may not be considering is the fact that some players will have a all or nothing mentality, and will quite or outright not play a game if something becomes unavailable to them. This type of player is already SOL when it comes to AOC, because they have sold exclusive cosmetics for years now.
Having a unique look is not important to everyone. If you truly wanted to play a game that is all about optimizing the way you look I am sure you can find any number of Barbie dress up games online. Thinking that extra free cosmetics given to you for login in is a attack on your ability to RP is crazy to me.
I do agree that it should not be: "You must login 31 of 31 days a month" To receive the reward.
If they are going to do it, it should be like 10 days a month or something.
The reward should be a pet skin, or some armor that is not on par with the store armors skins.
I have stated before that I don't like any login rewards, but Steven did seem more open to doing them this live steam, and I got the feeling based on his tone that they are more likely now than ever. "Its just cosmetics" Is a perfectly valid position in the case of a game like AOC. Remember COSMETICS ARE NOT IMPORTANT TO THE GAME, THEY ARE EXTRA. The game would work perfectly fine with no cosmetics.
What is important is that nothing of in game value is given away for free.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
It is only something Intrepid could have any say on if you are botting aspects within their application.
They have absolutely no say as to what you and I do with our computers outside of their game - that includes how we launch any specific application.
You can set up many macros on your computer to do many things. I usually have a macro that will launch my MMO of choice, open up a browser window with the forums for that game, a wiki or similar site for the game, run the parsing software I use for that game and launch what ever voice chat I use for tha game, all with one click.
These kinds of things are not only permissable, they are something that can not be made not permissable, as they are things that happen in Microsofts operating system, not in Intrepids application.
As I said earlier, it is absolutely not something Intrepid are able to have any kind of say in, but there is an argument that doing it (or selling the ability to do it to others) would be disrespectful towards the developers.
However, if those developers are going to be disrespectful towards their playerbase by adding in login rewards (or similar) despite universal disdain for them, then I have absolutely no problems with that level of disrespect being handed back.
Table Top is not as accessible, especially later on in life, where finding time together is a lot harder. Not to mention the RP in a D&D session is limited. The DM has a narrative he wishes to follow, so lolly-gagging around in a city/outpost/village whatever. Doesn't happen too often. Especially when other players in your limited party size want to move the story along with all the combat and dice rolls that come with it.
Compared to an MMO, where hundreds of players can log in, provided players settle on a non-official RP server. As there won't be an official one wearing the tag. Bottom line, RP is far, and I mean FAR more numerous in an MMO.
RP provides a nigh on limitless amount of content. Which is awesome for the moments of down-time as it were. Where you're logged in, but you've done your dailies for example, or there's still a few hours before a planned raid. Or hell even in between content patches during the so called content drought. Like it or not. A healthy RP community will keep the subs going throughout.
And you tend to strawman arguments "If you truly want to play a game that is all about optimizing the way you look"
That's not what I said. I said it was an important aspect that is FAR from being the same thing.
Besides, if it wasn't an important part of a game, and of someone's identity, there wouldn't be a shop for them. Or in fact successful games that base their income on "skins" and things like that.
Appreciate the fact you don't seem to give a damn about it and look at the available evidence. It's important enough for them to sink a lot of hours into the cosmetic part. Giving cosmetics as part of a log-in reward is simply another barrier that is not at all required.
Also " "Its just cosmetics" Is a perfectly valid position in the case of a game like AOC. Remember COSMETICS ARE NOT IMPORTANT TO THE GAME, THEY ARE EXTRA. The game would work perfectly fine with no cosmetics. "
Evidently, this isn't the case. Cosmetics are as essential to an MMO as gearing is. Or levelling up. It's not just "something extra"
I don't know of any other games with a feature like this. So, just go to WoW's website, and visit a bunch of random armory profiles. You'll see them wearing sets.Matching gear transmogrified to look good. Then tell me again how looks aren't important.
So back to the topic at hand. Log-in rewards.
The overwhelming majority is against it, including yourself. If it is a way of enticing or "positively increase player retention" then the game is already doomed to fail. Content should take care of these things. Logging in and playing the game again after a day of work should be the reward. Not. "I want that pet, I better log-in before I do something else" Because if you won't want to do something else, you won't need the pet incentive.
And if Steven really just ignores all this feedback, I'm actually disgusted.
Edit: May I also remind you in the case of pets, it would be a lot more engaging to have it tied to animal husbandry. Or these cosmetics tied to armoursmithing/tailoring stuff like that. But you cannot monetize that as much.
This is just all flat out false and biased. There is more D&D going on than you think. Just because MMOs have big numbers of players, doesn't mean people like to RP in them. You have to hunt down people that are into this sort of thing, and when you find them they are awful at it. Having a cool looking set is not what I would call RPing. It is just not wanting to look at a ugly gear.
Table top RP on the other hand is very accessible at all ages. You can always find a group on roll20 to play tabletop online. Nearly every comic/card shop in the world has multiple D&D groups. There are multiple groups online dedicated to finding people in your area to play table top games. If you want to play table top there is never anything stopping you. As an adult you have to determine what is a priority to you. MMOs take well over 4 hours a week to play, yet the average D&D game is only 4 hours a week.
This seems like a lot of outrage over a minor system. I actually play WOW so I don't need to look at the armory, I know first hand. Some people transmog, some people don't. Its all up to personal taste. WOW is actually the worst example you could possibly use because nine time out of ten people will choose their race/covenants based on the class/spec they enjoy, and if they are doing pvp or pve. No one who is a serious raider even picks alliance. There is almost no RP consideration taken in wow for most of the population.
It is just what is best for the content/spec I play, then after that if they have a cool weapon skin they like that may use that. If they are feeling fashionable, they might pick gear that is the same color. The game would still be successful if transmog did not exist. We know that because it was successful before transmogs.
transmogs did not magically save WOW. It is a minor subsystem.
I am against them yes, but if it is a free thing for 10 non-consecutive days out of 30, and Steven really wants them in the game. That is fine I guess. He spent 40million on this. It seems like one of the least offensive implementations of a login system I can imagine. I am pro DPS meter, and we ain't gonna see that. I am looking for the sliver lining here. What could be good about this? Cosmetics to me are the least offensive thing a log in reward could be. Realistically if you are not going to log in 50% of the days in a month, I am not sure you are going to be able to keep up with the pace of the game world.
From what I understand with the pets. There are combat-pets with stats, and non-combat pets that are just the normal little guys that follow you around as a decoration. The combat-pets are the ones tied to in-game systems, and I am no sure they are skin-able. Even so it would be no different than skinning a weapon to me.
Also with crafted gear is that it is fully dyeable, and you can wear it per slot. This level of customization does not exist with cosmetics.
I do agree that having the all cosmetics tied to in-game systems would be more engaging, but we lost that war before I even knew AOC was a thing.
We clearly agree and disagree on some of this stuff. I just don't see how cosmetics are a big deal. POE has had the most over priced cosmetics I have seen in my life for years, and they seem to fund most of the game. Just like in WOW or FFXIV, some people transmog and some don't. I personally find one look I like, and leave it on forever. If I can't no big deal. I just can't see getting mad at one free skin a month. It probably is going to look like ass compared to the paid ones.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
That too
Again, you keep doing it. I've looked into DnD locally several times. As well as things like Warhammer 40k, which isn't the same. But would bring me in contact with these people. Alas, sadly it's more of a few random memes with the Gary Gygax format these days. The last game they played was in 2017. Besides I didn't say I didn't have the time, I said that as we get older, it becomes increasingly difficult to find a time where every member can make it. As far as roll20 goes. Great website. But the same problem. You could of course join a multitude of campaigns, but that's too much of a hassle for me. Different kinds of stories.
Now, your dismissal of the transmog argument I'm not going to let slide. "Some do, some don't" makes it sound balanced on the whole. It isn't. At all. The vast, vast majority of people don't like the look of their gear and transmog. I coincidentally ran BG's and Dungeons on my low level Warlock a large part of last weekend, as well as do some M+ There was only one person who didn't transmog. And that was a level 37 Druid wearing the starter gear and nothing else, obviously a bot by the way he played (I even screenshotted it)
Several times in SL dungeons yesterday people asked. "Anyone have a transmog mount?"
Now, does this mean that's RP, like you somehow took my argument for. Of course not. It's as I iterated back then too. That the aesthetics of your character are more important than you think. But they are especially important to people who RP.
The RP I have on my server. (which has a dedicated tag) is perfectly fine. There are some bad ones. Like god-emoters. But I can only remember three over the years. There's newbies every now and again too. Whom you can mold into proper RP'ers. There are also games like ESO though, the RP there is absolutely asinine. Even though, arguably the game lends itself quite well to RP. The RP'ers there are really bad though.
You say minor system. But it's not all that minor. Entire monetisation schemes have spawned forth from it. Because it's not actually minor. It just doesn't impact "gameplay" a system like this would be ideal for a f2p mmo. Not a subscription. But we've been shuffled manure so often now. That we're grateful if things are cosmetic only
Then we agree for them most part. I think it is harder to find people who want to RP in a MMO than it is to find people that want to RP table top. That might be the main difference in our prospective.
That, and I think people will choose to not look ugly if its just a click away. Especially in WOW where half the server has the tmog mount, and can do it nearly anywhere.
That last sentence is real stand out one. "But we've been shuffled manure so often now. That we're grateful if things are cosmetic only". It is the same thing with these log in rewards system. It is a bunch of manure, but I am grateful it is only cosmetic.
My first draft choice is that I am against login rewards, but if they are going to have them. I would rather they hurt the smallest minority of players possible. Which in my mind is the RPers. Let's not forget who this system is for. The casual baby's that need a pat on the back just for booting up the game daily. Those are the guys to direct anger at. I am just seeing a livable situation where the economy is not in the toilet because they are giving away all sorts of potions, and materials daily. Worst, they could just give straight gear or XP buffs.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
Right, and still it feels like you are settling for it being "cosmetic only" rather than just keep going. No, we don't want it. Put that effort into cosmetic things craftable, or tie them to in-game events. I would even accept it to a degree if it was hidden a lot more cleverly. As deities are a thing. Follow one, and rather than just getting it, which sort of takes me out of the game. Get a summon to the temple of your respective deity. "Your efforts have not gone unnoticed, please take this reward as a token of my appreciation of spreading the word of <Deity name> something along those lines makes it far less obtrusive. The least in-game mail, or pop-ups one gets the better. These things, and even the cash-shop don't feel RPG to me.
And yea, it sucks. I had a DnD group a while ago, but that fizzled out eventually. The DM didn't want to continue the story. It was online. I'll try and find more groups I could feasibly join. That said, I still prefer to combine the two.
And then killing them for a new arm
For Detail on Logins:
For the daily login rewards it's been said a couple of times, but it feels cheap. Logging into a game shouldn't be an accomplishment to overcome. Tangible items, like potions or gold, should never be daily rewards as it can easily ruin certain economies. And when the item is at the end of a daily-login month, like a cosmetic, it makes it feel like such a chore and instantly makes me start associating my fun-time game with work/chores.
As for any other daily mechanic that might've crossed anyone's minds:
Other than the "main storyline" of games I really hate when my daily tasks are dictated before I even get a chance to play. Some days I want to take it slow and just fish for a few hours, other days I want to hardcore grind mobs, and other days I want to work as a team to defeat a dungeon. If I'm told what I should be doing before I even figure out what I want to do, that's just bad design. You shouldn't be playing the game for me.
So a big no from me too.
As they say: Login rewards, like daily quests are for games that have no content to keep you playing otherwise.
It feels so gimmick-y and manipulative. AoC Doesn't need anything akin to daily login rewards.