Pretty sure it'll be like $700 - $2000 server-price per 10k player capacity lol. Assuming there's a lot of data throughput and calculations per player from action combat or whatever.
Ah yes, the "we don't need to pay sysadmins, devops, network engineers, GMs or user support staff" cost model.
A server will cost many tens of thousands of dollars per month to manage and support even if it costs far less to physically run.
If there was real FOMO involved, there would need to be pay to win to tie in your money with fake in game currency where you constantly can miss out on "deals".
Pretty sure it'll be like $700 - $2000 server-price per 10k player capacity lol. Assuming there's a lot of data throughput and calculations per player from action combat or whatever.
Ah yes, the "we don't need to pay sysadmins, devops, network engineers, GMs or user support staff" cost model.
A server will cost many tens of thousands of dollars per month to manage and support even if it costs far less to physically run.
Okay, full model. $48k [15?] GMs per 10k players. Sysadmin and devops; not sure about sysadmin and not sure how necessary a high devop count would be but let's add $15k per 10k players; up to 50k players or something.
Pretty sure it'll be like $700 - $2000 server-price per 10k player capacity lol. Assuming there's a lot of data throughput and calculations per player from action combat or whatever.
Ah yes, the "we don't need to pay sysadmins, devops, network engineers, GMs or user support staff" cost model.
A server will cost many tens of thousands of dollars per month to manage and support even if it costs far less to physically run.
Okay, full model. $48k [15?] GMs per 10k players. Sysadmin and devops; not sure about sysadmin and not sure how necessary a high devop count would be but let's add $15k per 10k players; up to 50k players or something.
That is $48k - $63k per $150k. $102k - $87k.
If you think otherwise then state why.
That's a much more reasonable cost model for operating a MMORPG server.
There's obviously less margin in practice due to needing to fund the organization as a whole, but that does seem like a good starting estimate for the server itself.
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akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
For the record, some of the cash shop items are quite enticing and it requires constraint to leave them alone for now.
If they are an indication of supplementary items, and there are many more within the game that are achievable by just game play, well... the game will be quite promising
Get the gameplay to match.. and we might just have a winner!
Don't buy shit you cant afford then? Exercise some personal responsibility?
All you need to play the game is the base sub cost of 15 dollars a month, expansions are free. No one is forcing you to buy pixels. Let all the whale lords purchase 10 bazillion dollars worth of cosmetics that don't do anything in order to keep the cost of the game low for people like you with no money.
Otherwise youd be paying way more without them.
I personally don't. Just saying... it's a big problem. And i'd rather it not be a problem. Exploiting people for profit is still exploiting people. It's still scummy, and it's why gaming as a whole is in such a crappy place right now.
Yet the problem is reality and it cannot be changed without massive repercussions. So you cant really expect things to change. Sorry.
What repercussions lmao.
The cash shop stuff is going to be in the game as something others can simply work for in-game rather than buy [according to another poster in the thread], so the reality has indeed been changed, without repercussions.
I hope it is made more public that these items will be available in-game as something one can work towards (or variants of them).
Because They have kept their word this entire time. If they break trust in this solidified monetization plan they are doing more harm than good. There's also the legal issues that could potentially spring from these sorts of changes. "I bought something that was supposed to be exclusive and the company went and made it non-exclusive." Im not a lawyer but that might cause trouble.
They already do not have P2W or cosmetics that are solely for the purpose of monetary gain. These cosmetics you can buy are being used in different variants in the world rather than hung up on a pedestal only for squeezing people dry for their money.
Pretty sure it'll be like $700 - $2000 server-price per 10k player capacity lol. Assuming there's a lot of data throughput and calculations per player from action combat or whatever.
I know this forum is full of garbage but the search function really isn't hard to use. There is no P2W (That we know of), but there is Pay-to-look-good.
They can fund themselves via expansions and the monthly subscription that they are going to charge.
That's not a good answer, @Oreyeon ... I don't see a career for you on the revenue teams of any flagship MMO.
The subscription cost of $15 USD would probably double or more if you exclude the cash shop. There are already forum threads asking for a sub discount based on their country of residence or student status.
DLC/expansions won't cost more than the normal subscription (according to the Wiki). So, you can see where your idea is heading.
Remember that Intrepid is planning in-game cosmetics that are the same or better than the cash shop.
Make sure you check out the forums search feature ... before posting a new thread on a topic that is very much a dead horse.
HELL - I AM ON THE BOAT OF SUBSCRIPTIONS SHOULD PROLLY BE $25
to ensure Active GMs, Active Customer Support, Actively banning Gold Farmers, Cheaters, Hackers
It's 2022 - not 1999.. Inflation is real, everything is more expensive than before. Including Devs paygrade, Call Center CS, GM pay rate, Server Costs, Website Cost... the $10-15 model is fucking outdated.
{UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
They can fund themselves via expansions and the monthly subscription that they are going to charge.
That's not a good answer, @Oreyeon ... I don't see a career for you on the revenue teams of any flagship MMO.
The subscription cost of $15 USD would probably double or more if you exclude the cash shop. There are already forum threads asking for a sub discount based on their country of residence or student status.
DLC/expansions won't cost more than the normal subscription (according to the Wiki). So, you can see where your idea is heading.
Remember that Intrepid is planning in-game cosmetics that are the same or better than the cash shop.
Make sure you check out the forums search feature ... before posting a new thread on a topic that is very much a dead horse.
HELL - I AM ON THE BOAT OF SUBSCRIPTIONS SHOULD PROLLY BE $25
to ensure Active GMs, Active Customer Support, Actively banning Gold Farmers, Cheaters, Hackers
It's 2022 - not 1999.. Inflation is real, everything is more expensive than before. Including Devs paygrade, Call Center CS, GM pay rate, Server Costs, Website Cost... the $10-15 model is fucking outdated.
Lmao call center CS. How old are you? Also let's raise the cost to $30 or $40
Way to lump yourself in with all of the other devs that are ruining gaming with cash shops. I'm super tired of cash shops in these games. Pay real world money for cosmetic or pay to win items. I know that your game doesn't have pay to win stuff, but still. When I play an MMO or ARPG, I expect to be able to have the ability and opportunity to find unique items on my own, without having to pay money to buy them. That is the fun and draw of games like this, DISCOVERY and LOOT. That magic is gone with these stupid and greedy cash shops.
I get that you have had bad experiences in other games. But In AOC you can still get rare stuff form just playing the game, that has been stated many many times.
Furthermore about Intrepid, they need to have some extra income 'Cosmetic shop only' aside the monthly fee that you pay. The thing is the company has employees that need to get paid, they have Office cost, they have server costs and so on...Eventually it all adds up and with the most cost sink being the employees, you must have some cash to pay them, to get new Dev's on board to speed up de content cycle and keep the game healthy.
Now just imagine for a sec that they just barely can cover the cost of keeping the game up(online), with minimum development costs because they just have the monthly fee as income of a small player base. Well that would mean way way slower development of new content and not being able to get new dev's to speed up the content cycle because they simply can't ( No extra cash).
I like the current approach vs having to buy a new expansion each 1-2 years full box prize. I'm not forced to buy the cosmetics in the shop and can still play the game without having to lash out each 2y extra cash for a new expansion. Furthermore if I do like the game I'm willing to invest some cash into the game by buying cosmetics, Why? Because I appreciate the hard work Intrepid does and by doing that I'm keeping the game alive that I love to play.
Thing is don't expect when AOC goes live that they will have 1milion subs, it just won't happen because it is a new IP by a new studio. Intrepid needs to show the world (the MMORPG crowd) that their MMO is worth playing and if it is worth it, players will come and the game will grow. It won't be a forever honeymoon phase gaining players after going live, It will definitely be a slow uphill battle VS the giants on the market like WOW/FFXIV/ESO to gain new players after the launch of the game. I have faith that AOC will grow steadily, it will just take years to get on the player count level of WOW or FFXIV, but eventually AOC will be rolling with the big guys as long as they keep us happy (the players) we will keep them happy (investing in the game) easy as that.
As long as the cosmetic items stay in theme with the game (as in, we don't get people running around looking like Santa) then I really don't see the problem with it. If you do, then the good old Steven quote "This game wont be for everyone" just fits in here once more.
Way to lump yourself in with all of the other devs that are ruining gaming with cash shops. I'm super tired of cash shops in these games. Pay real world money for cosmetic or pay to win items. I know that your game doesn't have pay to win stuff, but still. When I play an MMO or ARPG, I expect to be able to have the ability and opportunity to find unique items on my own, without having to pay money to buy them. That is the fun and draw of games like this, DISCOVERY and LOOT. That magic is gone with these stupid and greedy cash shops.
People needs cosmetics things to be happy Bro. So...we need it!!!
Btw...name a game that you played where you found a unique item by yourserlf and done! without pay nothing. Sounds like is a Good game bro, I want to play it!!!
They can fund themselves via expansions and the monthly subscription that they are going to charge.
That's not a good answer, @Oreyeon ... I don't see a career for you on the revenue teams of any flagship MMO.
The subscription cost of $15 USD would probably double or more if you exclude the cash shop. There are already forum threads asking for a sub discount based on their country of residence or student status.
DLC/expansions won't cost more than the normal subscription (according to the Wiki). So, you can see where your idea is heading.
Remember that Intrepid is planning in-game cosmetics that are the same or better than the cash shop.
Make sure you check out the forums search feature ... before posting a new thread on a topic that is very much a dead horse.
HELL - I AM ON THE BOAT OF SUBSCRIPTIONS SHOULD PROLLY BE $25
to ensure Active GMs, Active Customer Support, Actively banning Gold Farmers, Cheaters, Hackers
It's 2022 - not 1999.. Inflation is real, everything is more expensive than before. Including Devs paygrade, Call Center CS, GM pay rate, Server Costs, Website Cost... the $10-15 model is fucking outdated.
Lmao call center CS. How old are you? Also let's raise the cost to $30 or $40
bro, Blizzard still uses Call centers if you ever manage to get on the phone with them.
{UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
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HinotoriMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
As long as the cosmetic items stay in theme with the game (as in, we don't get people running around looking like Santa) then I really don't see the problem with it. If you do, then the good old Steven quote "This game wont be for everyone" just fits in here once more.
I do agree, if there is going to be a Sub fee monthly then there shouldn't be any cash shop / cosmetic shop.
What ends up happening is a lot of devs / artists are then needed to pump out "premium" shop items regularly. I would prefer the studio put the money paying for all that dev work to go towards more "Content" devs. So the game / world can be enhanced more, at regular intervals.
Paying a Sub fee should be enough cash for everything the game needs, and more if you have an actual good game.
Letting the content suffer for a boost to profit is not good for any game in the long term... *cough cough* WoW *cough cough*.... sorry something stuck in my throat.
Just to chop away at some of your misconceptions unless someone else already has. The cosmetics you see in the shop aren't all being made for the purpose of being cosmetic. The armor you might get in the shop comes straight off of enemies. The mounts may be mobs in-game, etc. Stephen has also mentioned that your in-game cosmetic shop will not have the best cosmetics. The best and most customizable cosmetics will be obtainable in-game and not through a shop. This should almost completely alleviate your concerns.
How do people expect games like these to be viable? Where do people think money for something like this comes from? There needs to be income generated somewhere. Let's say a server has 8000 players. At $15 per month, per player that's only $120,000 per month per server.
I think you are conflating viable with profitable. A lot of us played plenty of MMOs that survived perfectly well by selling the game for like $50 and charging $20 per month. This helped keep games playable because devs needed to provide compelling content that would keep users subscribing for months or years at a time. You got a lot less abandonware. The incentive now-days is to make the first few hours fun, then put all the cool shit in a shop. The plan is to get a bunch of whales to drop a ton of cash, quickly. Then the devs can cash out.
That being said, I dont think the game is ruined with a cash shop. It would have been best if these cosmetics had to be found out in the world, then made into a rare drop or something. It would drive people to explore and farm areas that they would normally over look. Cosmetics also tend to be good rewards for participation in Holiday or Special Events. The drive to do all of this is lessened if you can just whip out the Visa. However, visual style is only part of the experience.
The real blow to content that a cash shop incurs is Asmongold probably wont run costume contests.
Pretty sure it'll be like $700 - $2000 server-price per 10k player capacity lol. Assuming there's a lot of data throughput and calculations per player from action combat or whatever.
As long as the cosmetic items stay in theme with the game (as in, we don't get people running around looking like Santa) then I really don't see the problem with it. If you do, then the good old Steven quote "This game wont be for everyone" just fits in here once more.
You havent seen the Santa skin?
Honestly i hate skins that are based on rl events lmao. I also hate dwarfs so its like a double down for me.
yeah i know about the ghillie suit, i had it ahhahaha. but that would give u an advantage in game...im talking about pure cosmetics with no advantages
Unfortunately that is NOT the Ghillie Suit.
That was (is?) the Dim Tree Spirit Armor's base appearance.
It goes to show that I don't actually even know if it still looks like that because no one would wear it and therefore I've never seen anyone with it NOT covered by some cosmetic, even just a free one.
Comments
Ah yes, the "we don't need to pay sysadmins, devops, network engineers, GMs or user support staff" cost model.
A server will cost many tens of thousands of dollars per month to manage and support even if it costs far less to physically run.
800% Value
Okay, full model. $48k [15?] GMs per 10k players. Sysadmin and devops; not sure about sysadmin and not sure how necessary a high devop count would be but let's add $15k per 10k players; up to 50k players or something.
That is $48k - $63k per $150k. $102k - $87k.
If you think otherwise then state why.
That's a much more reasonable cost model for operating a MMORPG server.
There's obviously less margin in practice due to needing to fund the organization as a whole, but that does seem like a good starting estimate for the server itself.
If they are an indication of supplementary items, and there are many more within the game that are achievable by just game play, well... the game will be quite promising
Get the gameplay to match.. and we might just have a winner!
Because They have kept their word this entire time. If they break trust in this solidified monetization plan they are doing more harm than good. There's also the legal issues that could potentially spring from these sorts of changes. "I bought something that was supposed to be exclusive and the company went and made it non-exclusive." Im not a lawyer but that might cause trouble.
They already do not have P2W or cosmetics that are solely for the purpose of monetary gain. These cosmetics you can buy are being used in different variants in the world rather than hung up on a pedestal only for squeezing people dry for their money.
Yeah... you don't have a clue.
HELL - I AM ON THE BOAT OF SUBSCRIPTIONS SHOULD PROLLY BE $25
to ensure Active GMs, Active Customer Support, Actively banning Gold Farmers, Cheaters, Hackers
It's 2022 - not 1999.. Inflation is real, everything is more expensive than before. Including Devs paygrade, Call Center CS, GM pay rate, Server Costs, Website Cost... the $10-15 model is fucking outdated.
Lmao call center CS. How old are you? Also let's raise the cost to $30 or $40
I get that you have had bad experiences in other games. But In AOC you can still get rare stuff form just playing the game, that has been stated many many times.
Furthermore about Intrepid, they need to have some extra income 'Cosmetic shop only' aside the monthly fee that you pay. The thing is the company has employees that need to get paid, they have Office cost, they have server costs and so on...Eventually it all adds up and with the most cost sink being the employees, you must have some cash to pay them, to get new Dev's on board to speed up de content cycle and keep the game healthy.
Now just imagine for a sec that they just barely can cover the cost of keeping the game up(online), with minimum development costs because they just have the monthly fee as income of a small player base. Well that would mean way way slower development of new content and not being able to get new dev's to speed up the content cycle because they simply can't ( No extra cash).
I like the current approach vs having to buy a new expansion each 1-2 years full box prize. I'm not forced to buy the cosmetics in the shop and can still play the game without having to lash out each 2y extra cash for a new expansion. Furthermore if I do like the game I'm willing to invest some cash into the game by buying cosmetics, Why? Because I appreciate the hard work Intrepid does and by doing that I'm keeping the game alive that I love to play.
Thing is don't expect when AOC goes live that they will have 1milion subs, it just won't happen because it is a new IP by a new studio. Intrepid needs to show the world (the MMORPG crowd) that their MMO is worth playing and if it is worth it, players will come and the game will grow. It won't be a forever honeymoon phase gaining players after going live, It will definitely be a slow uphill battle VS the giants on the market like WOW/FFXIV/ESO to gain new players after the launch of the game. I have faith that AOC will grow steadily, it will just take years to get on the player count level of WOW or FFXIV, but eventually AOC will be rolling with the big guys as long as they keep us happy (the players) we will keep them happy (investing in the game) easy as that.
People needs cosmetics things to be happy Bro. So...we need it!!!
Btw...name a game that you played where you found a unique item by yourserlf and done! without pay nothing. Sounds like is a Good game bro, I want to play it!!!
bro, Blizzard still uses Call centers if you ever manage to get on the phone with them.
You havent seen the Santa skin?
Looks good to me
Yeah I think so too. Alot of people didn't like it though, some lumped it with stuffertons
Just to chop away at some of your misconceptions unless someone else already has. The cosmetics you see in the shop aren't all being made for the purpose of being cosmetic. The armor you might get in the shop comes straight off of enemies. The mounts may be mobs in-game, etc. Stephen has also mentioned that your in-game cosmetic shop will not have the best cosmetics. The best and most customizable cosmetics will be obtainable in-game and not through a shop. This should almost completely alleviate your concerns.
I think you are conflating viable with profitable. A lot of us played plenty of MMOs that survived perfectly well by selling the game for like $50 and charging $20 per month. This helped keep games playable because devs needed to provide compelling content that would keep users subscribing for months or years at a time. You got a lot less abandonware. The incentive now-days is to make the first few hours fun, then put all the cool shit in a shop. The plan is to get a bunch of whales to drop a ton of cash, quickly. Then the devs can cash out.
That being said, I dont think the game is ruined with a cash shop. It would have been best if these cosmetics had to be found out in the world, then made into a rare drop or something. It would drive people to explore and farm areas that they would normally over look. Cosmetics also tend to be good rewards for participation in Holiday or Special Events. The drive to do all of this is lessened if you can just whip out the Visa. However, visual style is only part of the experience.
The real blow to content that a cash shop incurs is Asmongold probably wont run costume contests.
Full model is a few posts above yours.
Honestly i hate skins that are based on rl events lmao. I also hate dwarfs so its like a double down for me.
No one’s perfect. 😀
i might end up making a elf ;o
For the Empyre.
Because of how developers sometimes incentivize buying those skins.
BDO for example, for a long time, had the 'best' armor in the game look like this.
And then sold Cosmetics for $20-30.
Unfortunately that is NOT the Ghillie Suit.
That was (is?) the Dim Tree Spirit Armor's base appearance.
It goes to show that I don't actually even know if it still looks like that because no one would wear it and therefore I've never seen anyone with it NOT covered by some cosmetic, even just a free one.