All I've strung together is a somewhat cohesive design choice that may feature in an MMORPG, that would fit in Ashes of Creation while shitting on many problems the genre, game, and players would otherwise face.
Of course, it would also be more immersive and open up gameplay opportunities.
Do you think it's good as part of the genre or not.
Do you think it's good as part of the game's direction or not."
Ok, so its clear you are not at all interested in actual discussion, so blatant put-down it is instead.
Your idea is shit. Objectively shit.
The reason it is shit is because it can literally be summed up by saying "let's remove all aspects of an MMO that enables players to play that MMO in any way other than the way I wish to play it, forcing people to play said MMO my way."
If this feedback is difficult to reduce to numerical formulas and trackers can't be used due to both the difficulty of reducing the game in such a way, machine recognition hostilities, limited client information, and the variability to "mobs", the player will have to focus on alternatives to overcoming challenges
That is you outright saying "remove these parts of the game, so that players only have MY WAY left to play". You dont use the words "the player will have to" in a situation where you are not forcing things.
Now, if we contrast that to what I am saying, which can basically be summed up as " if you want to play the game by feel or intuition, the game should allow for that. If you want to play the game by knowledge and logic, the game should allow for that, if you want to play the game via some combination of the two, the game should allow for that".
Don't believe me that this is what I am saying? Here is a post from me in relation to a question from Intrepid in relation to floating damage feedback in combat...
As long as there is a turnoff option Ill be happy.
So, you mean to say you like a minimalistic UI, correct?
IMO, literally every UI element in the game should have the ability to be turned off, turned on, or have appropriate contexts to automatically turn on, as well as the option to alter the opacity based on contexts.
An example would be hot bars. I want the ability to turn each of them off or on individually, but with all of them turning on if I am in combat.
I want my buffs window to show when I have a new buff applied, or when an existing buff is about to expire, but also the ability to mouse over where that window is to show it for as long as it is mouse over.
I want the ability to turn off character portraits in the group window, leaving only names, health and mana of group members showing. If I am not a tank or healer, I dont even need that information and so would want the ability to have the whole group widen translucent unless mouse over (or a group member leaves or joins, I guess). I should also have the ability to set a condition where right clicking on a character in the group window casts a specific spell on them (a buff, heal, what ever I decide).
Basically, there is no customization that players or developers could think of that shouldnt be implemented, there just needs to be options to both save a full UI setring, and the ability to reset everything back to default.
What I am saying here is that if you want to play the game with absolutely no feedback at all, you should be able to do so. You should be able to turn off all of that information, and the game should still be playable for you. While I do not specifically talk about in combat feedback, the thread is literally only about that and so the entire post is actually about it.
This is literally me saying that you should be able to play Ashes the way you want to play Ashes - Intrepid have literally no reason at all to stop you, and it wouldn't be all that hard for them to make this a reality.
An MMORPG is at it's best when it attracts the most varied people. You should be able to play the game the way you want to play the game.
But so should I.
While you should be able to turn all of that combat feedback off, I should be able to turn it back on. You don't enjoy numbers, that's great, have at it.
However, don't go telling me that I also don't enjoy numbers - as you have tried to say many times in this thread by outright asserting that numbers are not fun.
So do you want combat feedback part of the HUDless game, integrated into the mechanics and basic visual and audio feedback of the game. . . or not?
As I literally just said in the above post, every player should be able to decide that for them self.
Why am i taking time to answer your questions when you both refuse to answer anyone else's, and dont even read the fucking answers when we give them to you?
Anyway, until AoC comes out we will see other attempts too, like the Throne and Liberty mmo. Maybe they have new ideas about this. Or maybe they delayed the release because they follow this thread and we found no solution yet
Why would Throne and Liberty bother to make Trackers unavailable though?
For a game to do this, they would have to think it matters for some reason. Since that's not actually an obvious conclusion to everyone (particularly not Korean MMO creators), they might just... not care at all about parser/tracker options.
These rooms would also solve the problem when owning intelligent androids sometime in 100 years will be a common thing... until genetically modified players will be created.
then possibly an AI will not be allowed to play MMOs either
But playing against an AI can be fun if that is trying to offer fun.
But when is something an "AI" vs a very clever algorithm?
Can a game be complex enough to require a tracker to become very smart?
Can be cases where you as a game developer can say somebody used a very smart tracker vs an average one to beat your designed raid?
September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
Your answer is a non-answer. I am asking your opinion about something specific and you're talking about your lack of opinion in general. In other words, you haven't answered the question and do not want to think about it.
I've tacked on an expansion to the question as well. Are you so passive about it if HUDless combat feedback confers an advantage over those using a tracker?
And do you want perks for in-game characters to have unique information gathering advantages such as 'Inspect' or not?
You word and define things in your own introverted robotic way referring to your own thoughts and perceptions only.
Yes or no.
Wait.
You ask my opinion on something, and then complain that my answer is referring to my own thoughts and perceptions?
Dude, that's what an opinion IS.
Which part of "every player should be able to decide that for them self" Are you having trouble understanding?
Your answer is a non-answer. I am asking your opinion about something specific and you're talking about your lack of opinion in general.
No, it is not a lack of opinion, it is simply not an answer you want. You want a yes or no to a question, but you ask the question without forming a foundation first.
A game should not be HUDless. Since I dont agree with a foundational premise of your question, I can not answer your question with a simple yes or no. As such, I have to dissect it - which is why I asked you a question earlier that you refused to answer - making this process much harder.
You should never ask a question of someone if that question relies on a specific concept that you have not already established that the person you are asking the question of agrees with. Any such question simply can not be answered in the manner you wish it to be answered in.
So, since you have asked a question of me that I can not answer, since I fundamentally disagree with a foundation of that question, and since you seemingly refuse to enter in to actual discussion about that and simply insist on an answer to said question, all I am able to do is attempt to understand the reasoning behind the question, pull it back to before the aspect I disagree with, and then attempt to answer your question.
It is my opinion that the game and the developer should not make that decision. It should be left to the player.
Put enough animation and audio cues on mobs for players to get feedback, sure. I've said as much on these forums many times. No one should be required to rely on numerical feedback as the only feedback in a game. Some people hate numbers, and come online to an MMO to escape them. I am not and have never attempted to force my way of thinking on to such people.
However, while that audio and animation based feedback should exist, and while people shouldn't need to use numerical feedback if they do not want to, those of us that DO want to should be able to do so.
Do you want the parts of the game that are not the HUD to offer deep combat feedback, generally meaning more visual-audio feedback?
Mechanics that do what they do and not something else? Only useable in appropriate contexts?
The way things are on-screen and in your ears being closely representative of reality? No arbitrary, gimmicky, arcade stuff that throws doubt on reality? No 1 HP individual doing their Ultimate Ability, Blade Dance teleporting around dealing damage to up to 5 targets with 5 instances of damage or whatever?
Grounded Power?
Are you okay with limited information being part of this 'grounded power', letting some characters excel in information gathering and others struggle, all for the sake of Class Fantasy, Distribution of Power, Distinct Advantages and Disadvantages, giving Unique Merit, allowing for an MMO with higher Organization arising naturally from differences between individuals and the unique ways they can help one another? Necessitating organization to confront Greater Power born out of the Constraints of individuals and Unique Synergies of Cooperation? Constraints that naturally lend themself to higher orders of gameplay, of organization, of skill?
What if Tracking was useless? What if 'Grounded Power' and whatnot wasn't even a thing but Tracking was Useless? Would you hate the game and not play it?
Does a game need to have Tracking for you to play it? Does a game where Tracking is Useful, need to have Tracking for you to play it? Is it a bad game if it doesn't have Tracking and Can have Tracking, when Tracking is Useful?
Do you want the parts of the game that are not the HUD to offer deep combat feedback, generally meaning more visual-audio feedback?
Mechanics that do what they do and not something else?
The way things are on-screen and in your ears being closely representative of reality? No arbitrary, gimmicky, arcade stuff that throws doubt on reality? No 1 HP individual doing their Ultimate Ability, Blade Dance teleporting around dealing damage to up to 5 targets with 5 instances of damage or whatever?
Grounded Power?
This part, yes.
Again, for the third or fourth time, you should be able to look at the game and see what is going on.
Are you okay with limited information being part of this 'grounded power', letting some characters excel in information gathering and others struggle, all for the sake of Class Fantasy, Distribution of Power, Distinct Advantages and Disadvantages, giving Unique Merit, allowing for an MMO with higher Organization arising naturally from differences between individuals and the unique ways they can help one another? Necessitating organization to confront Greater Power born out of the Constraints of individuals and Unique Synergies of Cooperation? Constraints that naturally lend themself to higher orders of gameplay, of organization, of skill?
This part no.
Information gathering is a function of the player, not the character. These two aspects of play should not be conflated - it always leads to a worse gaming experience when they are, not a better one.
After you answer the rest of it, tell me what game experience had limited character information and was worse for it, rather than just being a bad or deficient game overall.
I have nothing left to answer, as we are now at the end of my opinion on the matter.
I will only ever consider a game if I would play it. If I come across a deal breaker, I will stop considering that game, and will form no more opinions on it.
As for Scum, it is a survival game, not an MMORPG. It probably is better suited to you than any MMORPG ever will be, but since it is also a game I will never consider playing I have no opinion at all on it.
@Noaani
Would you play a game like SCUM if time to kill was higher? If you could take 2, 3, 4, 5 headshots? 15 small arms headshots?
Would you play it if the game were Ashes of Creation themed? Would that be a good game to you?
Is the character progression of SCUM bad or good in your opinion?
Noaani
So if tracking is useless in an MMO you won't play it?
If tracking is not available you won't play it either?
If an MMO developer decided that their 0layers wouldn't have access to objective data, no, I wouldn't play it.
This shouldnt be news to you, I've told you this a number of times. I mean, I know you hardly read anything, but it is something I have said in reply to you enough times that I assumed it must have made it through at some point.
But it isnt just that I wouldn't play a game without players having access to objective data. I also wouldn't play one where players are required to use a tracker.
These are not things developers should be deciding for players. They are decisions that each player should make in regards to how they wish to play a game.
Quite honestly, I am constantly shocked that people would have any objection to that at all.
Noaani
Would you play a game like SCUM if time to kill was higher? If you could take 2, 3, 4, 5 headshots? 15 small arms headshots?
Would you play it if the game were Ashes of Creation themed? Would that be a good game to you?
Is the character progression of SCUM bad or good in your opinion?
who am I talking to here
As I said, I have no opinion on the game.
I looked at it for literally 3 seconds, and decided it was not a game I would ever be interested in. Since forming an opinion (a valid one, at least) takes actual thought, I have no intention of ever forming an opinion on a game I know I will never play.
Noaani
You haven't answered whether you'd play an MMO where Tracking is useless.
Yes I did. If you had been paying attention to the discussion (going back to your first few days here), you would have seen the answer.
I said I wouldn't play a game where players do not have access to objective data. Since the only way trackers could be useless is if they have no data, and since if players have data, trackers have data, saying I would not play a game if players have no data is the exact same thing as saying I would not play a game if trackers were useless.
It isnt my fault you cant think for yourself here.
Noaani
So if tracking is useless in an MMO you won't play it?
If tracking is not available you won't play it either?
If an MMO developer decided that their 0layers wouldn't have access to objective data, no, I wouldn't play it.
This shouldnt be news to you, I've told you this a number of times. I mean, I know you hardly read anything, but it is something I have said in reply to you enough times that I assumed it must have made it through at some point.
But it isnt just that I wouldn't play a game without players having access to objective data. I also wouldn't play one where players are required to use a tracker.
These are not things developers should be deciding for players. They are decisions that each player should make in regards to how they wish to play a game.
Quite honestly, I am constantly shocked that people would have any objection to that at all.
This makes no sense, you have been arguing about trackers forever, and devs having to make content around trackers so therefor it requires trackers. Why are you lying?
Noaani
So if tracking is useless in an MMO you won't play it?
If tracking is not available you won't play it either?
If an MMO developer decided that their 0layers wouldn't have access to objective data, no, I wouldn't play it.
This shouldnt be news to you, I've told you this a number of times. I mean, I know you hardly read anything, but it is something I have said in reply to you enough times that I assumed it must have made it through at some point.
But it isnt just that I wouldn't play a game without players having access to objective data. I also wouldn't play one where players are required to use a tracker.
These are not things developers should be deciding for players. They are decisions that each player should make in regards to how they wish to play a game.
Quite honestly, I am constantly shocked that people would have any objection to that at all.
This makes no sense, you have been arguing about trackers forever, and devs having to make content around trackers so therefor it requires trackers. Why are you lying?
I'm not.
My argument has always been those wanting trackers should have them, those not wanting them should not have them.
You just like to bring the discussion in to side tangents that make no real sense, and in an effort to educate you, you seem to just be confused (it's hard to educate someone about a topic they are already set in their mind about).
You also like to make things up, and you then seem to actually believe those things you make up. This is actually a dangerous charasteric, it is perhaps something you may want to put some time in to correcting.
Nooani spoke that designing fight without tracker in mind would lead to fight to be quite easy.
Not that fight have to be designed around tracker... which would be obviously stupid.
To take it another way :
Design a fight around range DPS : melee DPS will probably a hard time, and even be out of any meta for this fight.
The opposite would be "design a fight witout range DPS in mind" : It can go on two way : or range are overpowered, or the fight doesn't offer nothing specific for being a range DPS, so... why playing range?
Devs have to keep in mind there will be range, melee, magical/cast and instant DPS. but avoid to design fight around some or one of them.
The problem is always... Freedom of players about how they enjoy a game, how they have fun.
Noaani
So if tracking is useless in an MMO you won't play it?
If tracking is not available you won't play it either?
If an MMO developer decided that their 0layers wouldn't have access to objective data, no, I wouldn't play it.
This shouldnt be news to you, I've told you this a number of times. I mean, I know you hardly read anything, but it is something I have said in reply to you enough times that I assumed it must have made it through at some point.
But it isnt just that I wouldn't play a game without players having access to objective data. I also wouldn't play one where players are required to use a tracker.
These are not things developers should be deciding for players. They are decisions that each player should make in regards to how they wish to play a game.
Quite honestly, I am constantly shocked that people would have any objection to that at all.
This makes no sense, you have been arguing about trackers forever, and devs having to make content around trackers so therefor it requires trackers. Why are you lying?
I'm not.
My argument has always been those wanting trackers should have them, those not wanting them should not have them.
You just like to bring the discussion in to side tangents that make no real sense, and in an effort to educate you, you seem to just be confused (it's hard to educate someone about a topic they are already set in their mind about).
You also like to make things up, and you then seem to actually believe those things you make up. This is actually a dangerous charasteric, it is perhaps something you may want to put some time in to correcting.
No your argument is devs can't stop trackers and its going to influence gameplay and there for devs will have to make content with trackers in mind. Therefor requiring tracker use int he game as a requirement to clear content.
As usual you have bad takes, this is a pattern like I've said before.
Nooani spoke that designing fight without tracker in mind would lead to fight to be quite easy.
Not that fight have to be designed around tracker... which would be obviously stupid.
To take it another way :
Design a fight around range DPS : melee DPS will probably a hard time, and even be out of any meta for this fight.
The opposite would be "design a fight witout range DPS in mind" : It can go on two way : or range are overpowered, or the fight doesn't offer nothing specific for being a range DPS, so... why playing range?
Devs have to keep in mind there will be range, melee, magical/cast and instant DPS. but avoid to design fight around some or one of them.
The problem is always... Freedom of players about how they enjoy a game, how they have fun.
If you are designing a fight with trackers you are designing a fight with trackers. You are simply trying to dance around and say it isn't but it is.
What if trackers were an in-game item that required players wear something to feed info to it? What if the tracker and info-generator used up space and resources that could go elsewhere? What if it was limited, such that certain effects do not show up on the tracker as part of the game's content and challenge?
On top of tracking not offering much of an advantage or no advantage, actually a DISADVANTAGE compared to those that can use something like 'Inspect', Communication, Intuition, Reason, et cetera and simply play the game engaged? Thus, they can use that "Equipment Slot", attention span, 'encumberance', on something more useful?
Comments
Ok, so its clear you are not at all interested in actual discussion, so blatant put-down it is instead.
Your idea is shit. Objectively shit.
The reason it is shit is because it can literally be summed up by saying "let's remove all aspects of an MMO that enables players to play that MMO in any way other than the way I wish to play it, forcing people to play said MMO my way."
Dont believe me that this is what you are saying? That is you outright saying "remove these parts of the game, so that players only have MY WAY left to play". You dont use the words "the player will have to" in a situation where you are not forcing things.
Now, if we contrast that to what I am saying, which can basically be summed up as " if you want to play the game by feel or intuition, the game should allow for that. If you want to play the game by knowledge and logic, the game should allow for that, if you want to play the game via some combination of the two, the game should allow for that".
Don't believe me that this is what I am saying? Here is a post from me in relation to a question from Intrepid in relation to floating damage feedback in combat... What I am saying here is that if you want to play the game with absolutely no feedback at all, you should be able to do so. You should be able to turn off all of that information, and the game should still be playable for you. While I do not specifically talk about in combat feedback, the thread is literally only about that and so the entire post is actually about it.
This is literally me saying that you should be able to play Ashes the way you want to play Ashes - Intrepid have literally no reason at all to stop you, and it wouldn't be all that hard for them to make this a reality.
An MMORPG is at it's best when it attracts the most varied people. You should be able to play the game the way you want to play the game.
But so should I.
While you should be able to turn all of that combat feedback off, I should be able to turn it back on. You don't enjoy numbers, that's great, have at it.
However, don't go telling me that I also don't enjoy numbers - as you have tried to say many times in this thread by outright asserting that numbers are not fun. So again, I am saying that both you and I should be able to play Ashes the way we each want to play Ashes.
You are saying that both you and I should be able to play Ashes only the way you want to play Ashes.
This is why your idea is shit.
Do you have any more questions you would like me to answer?
So do you want combat feedback part of the HUDless game, integrated into the mechanics and basic visual and audio feedback of the game. . . or not?
And do you want perks for in-game characters to have unique information gathering advantages such as 'Inspect' or not?
As I literally just said in the above post, every player should be able to decide that for them self.
Why am i taking time to answer your questions when you both refuse to answer anyone else's, and dont even read the fucking answers when we give them to you?
edit: Are you OK with this even if it confers an advantage OVER those using a tracker?
At this point, I think you may be the first person on any forum I have ever reported for trolling. I've answered this question twice in two posts.
If you do not like or understand my answer, ask for clarification.
I'm asking about the HUDless combat feedback.
Yes or no.
If people can harm (or take fun away) using AI from other people
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/10/biden-proposes-new-bill-of-rights-to-protect-americans-from-ai-snooping/
then possibly an AI will not be allowed to play MMOs either
But playing against an AI can be fun if that is trying to offer fun.
But when is something an "AI" vs a very clever algorithm?
Can a game be complex enough to require a tracker to become very smart?
Can be cases where you as a game developer can say somebody used a very smart tracker vs an average one to beat your designed raid?
You ask my opinion on something, and then complain that my answer is referring to my own thoughts and perceptions?
Dude, that's what an opinion IS.
Which part of "every player should be able to decide that for them self" Are you having trouble understanding?
Your answer is a non-answer. I am asking your opinion about something specific and you're talking about your lack of opinion in general. In other words, you haven't answered the question and do not want to think about it.
I've tacked on an expansion to the question as well. Are you so passive about it if HUDless combat feedback confers an advantage over those using a tracker?
And do you want perks for in-game characters to have unique information gathering advantages such as 'Inspect' or not?
No, it is not a lack of opinion, it is simply not an answer you want. You want a yes or no to a question, but you ask the question without forming a foundation first.
A game should not be HUDless. Since I dont agree with a foundational premise of your question, I can not answer your question with a simple yes or no. As such, I have to dissect it - which is why I asked you a question earlier that you refused to answer - making this process much harder.
You should never ask a question of someone if that question relies on a specific concept that you have not already established that the person you are asking the question of agrees with. Any such question simply can not be answered in the manner you wish it to be answered in.
So, since you have asked a question of me that I can not answer, since I fundamentally disagree with a foundation of that question, and since you seemingly refuse to enter in to actual discussion about that and simply insist on an answer to said question, all I am able to do is attempt to understand the reasoning behind the question, pull it back to before the aspect I disagree with, and then attempt to answer your question.
It is my opinion that the game and the developer should not make that decision. It should be left to the player.
Put enough animation and audio cues on mobs for players to get feedback, sure. I've said as much on these forums many times. No one should be required to rely on numerical feedback as the only feedback in a game. Some people hate numbers, and come online to an MMO to escape them. I am not and have never attempted to force my way of thinking on to such people.
However, while that audio and animation based feedback should exist, and while people shouldn't need to use numerical feedback if they do not want to, those of us that DO want to should be able to do so.
You are lost.
Every acquiescence, every appeasement of yours never address the qualitative question I've asked you.
So do you want the HUDless game to have deep combat feedback, integrated into the mechanics and natural audio-visual feedback or not?
Are you OK with this even if it confers an advantage OVER those using a tracker?
Again, you CAN NOT ask a question of someone if you have not formed a foundation. Why is the game HUDless? What does that even mean for a hybrid MMO?
Asking your question without setting a foundation is like me asking you for your opinion on who is right between Eric and Matt.
So, who do you think is right between Eric and Matt and why do you think that?
Mechanics that do what they do and not something else? Only useable in appropriate contexts?
The way things are on-screen and in your ears being closely representative of reality? No arbitrary, gimmicky, arcade stuff that throws doubt on reality? No 1 HP individual doing their Ultimate Ability, Blade Dance teleporting around dealing damage to up to 5 targets with 5 instances of damage or whatever?
Grounded Power?
Are you okay with limited information being part of this 'grounded power', letting some characters excel in information gathering and others struggle, all for the sake of Class Fantasy, Distribution of Power, Distinct Advantages and Disadvantages, giving Unique Merit, allowing for an MMO with higher Organization arising naturally from differences between individuals and the unique ways they can help one another? Necessitating organization to confront Greater Power born out of the Constraints of individuals and Unique Synergies of Cooperation? Constraints that naturally lend themself to higher orders of gameplay, of organization, of skill?
What if Tracking was useless? What if 'Grounded Power' and whatnot wasn't even a thing but Tracking was Useless? Would you hate the game and not play it?
Does a game need to have Tracking for you to play it? Does a game where Tracking is Useful, need to have Tracking for you to play it? Is it a bad game if it doesn't have Tracking and Can have Tracking, when Tracking is Useful?
Again, for the third or fourth time, you should be able to look at the game and see what is going on. This part no.
Information gathering is a function of the player, not the character. These two aspects of play should not be conflated - it always leads to a worse gaming experience when they are, not a better one.
Also let me know how SCUM is worse for it.
I have nothing left to answer, as we are now at the end of my opinion on the matter.
I will only ever consider a game if I would play it. If I come across a deal breaker, I will stop considering that game, and will form no more opinions on it.
As for Scum, it is a survival game, not an MMORPG. It probably is better suited to you than any MMORPG ever will be, but since it is also a game I will never consider playing I have no opinion at all on it.
So if tracking is useless in an MMO you won't play it?
If tracking is not available you won't play it either?
Would you play a game like SCUM if time to kill was higher? If you could take 2, 3, 4, 5 headshots? 15 small arms headshots?
Would you play it if the game were Ashes of Creation themed? Would that be a good game to you?
Is the character progression of SCUM bad or good in your opinion?
who am I talking to here
This shouldnt be news to you, I've told you this a number of times. I mean, I know you hardly read anything, but it is something I have said in reply to you enough times that I assumed it must have made it through at some point.
But it isnt just that I wouldn't play a game without players having access to objective data. I also wouldn't play one where players are required to use a tracker.
These are not things developers should be deciding for players. They are decisions that each player should make in regards to how they wish to play a game.
Quite honestly, I am constantly shocked that people would have any objection to that at all.
As I said, I have no opinion on the game.
I looked at it for literally 3 seconds, and decided it was not a game I would ever be interested in. Since forming an opinion (a valid one, at least) takes actual thought, I have no intention of ever forming an opinion on a game I know I will never play.
You haven't answered whether you'd play an MMO where Tracking is useless.
I said I wouldn't play a game where players do not have access to objective data. Since the only way trackers could be useless is if they have no data, and since if players have data, trackers have data, saying I would not play a game if players have no data is the exact same thing as saying I would not play a game if trackers were useless.
It isnt my fault you cant think for yourself here.
This makes no sense, you have been arguing about trackers forever, and devs having to make content around trackers so therefor it requires trackers. Why are you lying?
I'm not.
My argument has always been those wanting trackers should have them, those not wanting them should not have them.
You just like to bring the discussion in to side tangents that make no real sense, and in an effort to educate you, you seem to just be confused (it's hard to educate someone about a topic they are already set in their mind about).
You also like to make things up, and you then seem to actually believe those things you make up. This is actually a dangerous charasteric, it is perhaps something you may want to put some time in to correcting.
Not that fight have to be designed around tracker... which would be obviously stupid.
To take it another way :
Design a fight around range DPS : melee DPS will probably a hard time, and even be out of any meta for this fight.
The opposite would be "design a fight witout range DPS in mind" : It can go on two way : or range are overpowered, or the fight doesn't offer nothing specific for being a range DPS, so... why playing range?
Devs have to keep in mind there will be range, melee, magical/cast and instant DPS. but avoid to design fight around some or one of them.
The problem is always... Freedom of players about how they enjoy a game, how they have fun.
"The only way trackers could be useless is if they have no data"
Assume there is a way for trackers to be available and also useless.
Do you not play the game as a result.
@Noaani
So you want those without trackers to be less competitively viable, or not? How much so "less competitive"?
Do you only play games where you can use a Tracker and get an advantage over those without one or not?
Do you want content to be static enough you can beat it with Trackers or not?
No your argument is devs can't stop trackers and its going to influence gameplay and there for devs will have to make content with trackers in mind. Therefor requiring tracker use int he game as a requirement to clear content.
As usual you have bad takes, this is a pattern like I've said before.
If you are designing a fight with trackers you are designing a fight with trackers. You are simply trying to dance around and say it isn't but it is.
What if trackers were an in-game item that required players wear something to feed info to it? What if the tracker and info-generator used up space and resources that could go elsewhere? What if it was limited, such that certain effects do not show up on the tracker as part of the game's content and challenge?
On top of tracking not offering much of an advantage or no advantage, actually a DISADVANTAGE compared to those that can use something like 'Inspect', Communication, Intuition, Reason, et cetera and simply play the game engaged? Thus, they can use that "Equipment Slot", attention span, 'encumberance', on something more useful?
Would this be the deal breaker?