jesus, 8 pages of nooani and neurath going in circles. you australians have a lot of free time.
Being called an Australian makes me feel... kind of gross.
i remember steven said aoc will have 20% instances and 80% open world. but he didnt say anything about those instances being pve or dungeons. he just said content. so it could be that arenas, battlegrounds and some places as part of a quest will be instances.
With the exception of battlegrounds (in Ashes, battlegrounds are specifically open world events), yeah.
The thing is, they have also said that some instances will - and I quote - "contain scripted and difficult boss fights that drop gear".
This is the part I am talking about.
Will the game have instanced arenas? Yep.
Will they be a part of that 20/80 split? Don't care.
Will the game have story instances? Yep.
Will they be a part of that 20/80 split? Don't care.
Will the game have instanced apartments? Yep.
Will they be a part of that 20/80 split? Don't care.
Will the game have instances that have scripted and difficult boss fights that drop gear? Fuck yes it will.
jesus, 8 pages of nooani and neurath going in circles. you australians have a lot of free time.
Being called an Australian makes me feel... kind of gross.
i remember steven said aoc will have 20% instances and 80% open world. but he didnt say anything about those instances being pve or dungeons. he just said content. so it could be that arenas, battlegrounds and some places as part of a quest will be instances.
With the exception of battlegrounds (in Ashes, battlegrounds are specifically open world events), yeah.
The thing is, they have also said that some instances will - and I quote - "contain scripted and difficult boss fights that drop gear".
This is the part I am talking about.
Will the game have instanced arenas? Yep.
Will they be a part of that 20/80 split? Don't care.
Will the game have story instances? Yep.
Will they be a part of that 20/80 split? Don't care.
Will the game have instanced apartments? Yep.
Will they be a part of that 20/80 split? Don't care.
Will the game have instances that have scripted and difficult boss fights that drop gear? Fuck yes it will.
so maybe 1% of instances 4 u lol
didnt u say ur australian? or that u live in australia?
jesus, 8 pages of nooani and neurath going in circles. you australians have a lot of free time.
Being called an Australian makes me feel... kind of gross.
i remember steven said aoc will have 20% instances and 80% open world. but he didnt say anything about those instances being pve or dungeons. he just said content. so it could be that arenas, battlegrounds and some places as part of a quest will be instances.
With the exception of battlegrounds (in Ashes, battlegrounds are specifically open world events), yeah.
The thing is, they have also said that some instances will - and I quote - "contain scripted and difficult boss fights that drop gear".
This is the part I am talking about.
Will the game have instanced arenas? Yep.
Will they be a part of that 20/80 split? Don't care.
Will the game have story instances? Yep.
Will they be a part of that 20/80 split? Don't care.
Will the game have instanced apartments? Yep.
Will they be a part of that 20/80 split? Don't care.
Will the game have instances that have scripted and difficult boss fights that drop gear? Fuck yes it will.
so maybe 1% of instances 4 u lol
If we are talking number of ecounters that are "important" enough to be given a unique name, 1% of them would likely be more than enough.
didnt u say ur australian? or that u live in australia?
and well yeah the early stuff wont matter too much at level 50...unless u make it matter on purpose. i still count arena, castle siege, etc as an instance in the 20% of instanced content
I said why would you repeat these instances? They are not designed to be farmed or for grinding.
You would repeat them because they are fun, and they will drop gear (as per Stevens comments).
Sure, you won't grind them, but repeating on occasion is not the same thing as grinding them.
Again, this is you taking the comment that instances aren't designed to be run repeatedly for grinding to mean they aren't repeatable at all - when that is literally not what was said.
Instances covers apartments
When Intrepid have been talking about instanced content in the past, apartments have not been a part of that discussion.
Yes, they will be instanced in terms of the mechanic, but the discussion around that 80/20 split is in relation to content (specifically killing things).
Sure, a pve player might enjoy the story instances but does that make imstanced pve a focus over pvx? No.
What was the point of this?
No one is saying Ashes will be instanced focused, or PvE focused. Why is this a comment you felt worth writing, or worth asking other people to read?
You keep complaining that people (or, specifically that I) am missing out parts of your posts. Perhaps if you just skip writing absolutely pointless parts of your posts like the above that literally have nothing at all to do with the discussion (literally no one is saying the game could, should or would be instance focused) people wouldn't do that.
My posts do not contain pointless stuff. Housing is content and 80/20 split on 'content' is the latest definition when 80/20 split was mentioned. For all you know, you could run the instance once get a reward and then not receive a reward the second, third, fourth time you run the instance. Seen it done before. What 'gear' can you get because any 'gear' is better than no gear. I might even have to run these instances in repetition myself to get this 'gear' just to compete with those who have the 'gear'. Especially if these instances are low level.
You desire/request/want PvE Progression Instance Raids to be added in the future which would mean a PvE Focussed Expansion. There might well be a PvE Focussed Expansion but I'd prefer a PvX Focussed expansion. The reason is simple - a PvE Focussed Expansion means there would have to be a PvP Focussed Expansion to make the balance PvX. I'm against a PvP Focussed Expansion is singularity. It often means PvP Armour and PvP Levels which is not PvX. Hence why I guard against singular expansion focusses in lieu of PvX Expansions.
and well yeah the early stuff wont matter too much at level 50...unless u make it matter on purpose. i still count arena, castle siege, etc as an instance in the 20% of instanced content
Honestly, I don't really care - but I'll give you my reason for thinking it does count.
Right from the start, Intrepid talked about instances as being some dungeon content, and the arena. These were always talked about as "the two instanced content types".
In discussions where the 20/80 split is discussed, it is always about dungeon content. Since Intrepid had always kept dungeon and arena instances seperate, I see no reason as to why they wouldn't continue to keep them seperate here.
Again though, I don't care. The reason I don't care is because that 80/20 comment means about as much as Stevens comment of 40-50% of character power coming from gear. Both comments mean nothing without more information.
I mean, yeah - but this depends on the context of the discussion.
If you are talking about building a game world and laying out encounters in a logical manner, when you talk about content, you are not talking about housing.
If you are talking about dungeons and make the comment that 20% of that content will be instanced, you aren't talking about houses.
If you are creating a bullet point list of all content in the game, sure, housing is content.
You desire/request/want PvE Progression Instance Raids to be added in the future which would mean a PvE Focussed Expansion.
I mean - no?
Not unless Intrepid plan on expansions the size and scope of L2.
A proper MMO expansion can add a full years worth of detailed top end raid content, but still be highly focused on something else - such as PvP, or crafting, or adding a new continent, or a new player race, or a new node type, or a new religion - or all of the above if we are talking EQ2 scope expansions.
If the games expansions are going to be really small in scope, then yeah, adding this probably would require a PvE focused expansion.
Additionally, there is no reason at all as to why instanced raids can't be considered PvX, the only thing you are doing is taking the PvP and PvE elements of PvX and running them sequentially rather than in parallel.
However, none of that is anything at all to do with this thread. This is another of those pointless things that you bought up for no reason.
I mean, yeah - but this depends on the context of the discussion.
If you are talking about building a game world and laying out encounters in a logical manner, when you talk about content, you are not talking about housing.
If you are talking about dungeons and make the comment that 20% of that content will be instanced, you aren't talking about houses.
If you are creating a bullet point list of all content in the game, sure, housing is content.
You desire/request/want PvE Progression Instance Raids to be added in the future which would mean a PvE Focussed Expansion.
I mean - no?
Not unless Intrepid plan on expansions the size and scope of L2.
A proper MMO expansion can add a full years worth of detailed top end raid content, but still be highly focused on something else - such as PvP, or crafting, or adding a new continent, or a new player race, or a new node type, or a new religion - or all of the above if we are talking EQ2 scope expansions.
If the games expansions are going to be really small in scope, then yeah, adding this probably would require a PvE focused expansion.
Additionally, there is no reason at all as to why instanced raids can't be considered PvX, the only thing you are doing is taking the PvP and PvE elements of PvX and running them sequentially rather than in parallel.
However, none of that is anything at all to do with this thread. This is another of those pointless things that you bought up for no reason.
Did you even watch the videos I linked? When asked about WoW and Final Fantasy Players being enticed by raiding Steven said 'These players might enjoy the story modes/encounters' ' The instanced encounters will be fine combed to require very reactive gameplay to overcome certain types of challenges'.
Steven also calls the instances 'scenarios' and discusses the use of 'Monster Coin' functions. It seems the defeat of the bosses in 'scenarios' can trigger the Monster Coin events. Edit: These 'scenarios/monster coin events' are PvX in my eyes. I believe the PvP instances are 'Scenarios' also but these don't spawn 'Monster Coin' functionalities.
Its too bad people don't want cosmetics from Raid Instances because Guild War 1 only had Cosmetic Upgrades from most PvE after level 20 and everyone spent countless hours farming these Cosmetic Upgrades to show off. I realise Guild Wars 1 is a CORPG and not an MMORPG but Guild Wars 1 was the best PvP experience due to the systems involved.
Its too bad people don't want cosmetics from Raid Instances because Guild War 1 only had Cosmetic Upgrades from most PvE after level 20 and everyone spent countless hours farming these Cosmetic Upgrades to show off. I realise Guild Wars 1 is a CORPG and not an MMORPG but Guild Wars 1 was the best PvP experience due to the systems involved.
Yes we do, even final fantasy players want cosmetics from raid content (See Ultimate raids, cosmetic rewards for the hardest stuff)
Plus a cool title reward and character sheet border graphic thing.
Hardcore players will grind for cosmetics all day.
Its too bad people don't want cosmetics from Raid Instances because Guild War 1 only had Cosmetic Upgrades from most PvE after level 20 and everyone spent countless hours farming these Cosmetic Upgrades to show off. I realise Guild Wars 1 is a CORPG and not an MMORPG but Guild Wars 1 was the best PvP experience due to the systems involved.
Yes we do, even final fantasy players want cosmetics from raid content (See Ultimate raids, cosmetic rewards for the hardest stuff)
Plus a cool title reward and character sheet border graphic thing.
Hardcore players will grind for cosmetics all day.
Well, I hope more Final Fantasy Players join our ranks then mate.
Its too bad people don't want cosmetics from Raid Instances because Guild War 1 only had Cosmetic Upgrades from most PvE after level 20 and everyone spent countless hours farming these Cosmetic Upgrades to show off. I realise Guild Wars 1 is a CORPG and not an MMORPG but Guild Wars 1 was the best PvP experience due to the systems involved.
Yes we do, even final fantasy players want cosmetics from raid content (See Ultimate raids, cosmetic rewards for the hardest stuff)
Plus a cool title reward and character sheet border graphic thing.
Hardcore players will grind for cosmetics all day.
I will never grind for a character cosmetic this hard.
House furnishings, on the other hand, hot damn sign me up, I need a new throw rug and some curtains for the sitting room and I will farm hundreds of hours for 'em.
Its too bad people don't want cosmetics from Raid Instances because Guild War 1 only had Cosmetic Upgrades from most PvE after level 20 and everyone spent countless hours farming these Cosmetic Upgrades to show off. I realise Guild Wars 1 is a CORPG and not an MMORPG but Guild Wars 1 was the best PvP experience due to the systems involved.
Yes we do, even final fantasy players want cosmetics from raid content (See Ultimate raids, cosmetic rewards for the hardest stuff)
Plus a cool title reward and character sheet border graphic thing.
Hardcore players will grind for cosmetics all day.
I will never grind for a character cosmetic this hard.
House furnishings, on the other hand, hot damn sign me up, I need a new throw rug and some curtains for the sitting room and I will farm hundreds of hours for 'em.
I'd buy the dropped schematics from you - I might be a Carpenter who makes furniture
Its too bad people don't want cosmetics from Raid Instances because Guild War 1 only had Cosmetic Upgrades from most PvE after level 20 and everyone spent countless hours farming these Cosmetic Upgrades to show off. I realise Guild Wars 1 is a CORPG and not an MMORPG but Guild Wars 1 was the best PvP experience due to the systems involved.
Yes we do, even final fantasy players want cosmetics from raid content (See Ultimate raids, cosmetic rewards for the hardest stuff)
Plus a cool title reward and character sheet border graphic thing.
Hardcore players will grind for cosmetics all day.
I will never grind for a character cosmetic this hard.
House furnishings, on the other hand, hot damn sign me up, I need a new throw rug and some curtains for the sitting room and I will farm hundreds of hours for 'em.
I'd buy the dropped schematics from you - I might be a Carpenter who makes furniture
Aw thanks, but I already have a Carpenter (probably), hence the throw rug and curtains part.
This game doesn't have Clothcrafting though, so idk where those actually come from.
I have a Looming feeling that they're just going to be random in-node stuff that players don't make like the better/sane BDO ones, but nothing concrete to support that feeling.
Its too bad people don't want cosmetics from Raid Instances because Guild War 1 only had Cosmetic Upgrades from most PvE after level 20 and everyone spent countless hours farming these Cosmetic Upgrades to show off. I realise Guild Wars 1 is a CORPG and not an MMORPG but Guild Wars 1 was the best PvP experience due to the systems involved.
Yes we do, even final fantasy players want cosmetics from raid content (See Ultimate raids, cosmetic rewards for the hardest stuff)
Plus a cool title reward and character sheet border graphic thing.
Hardcore players will grind for cosmetics all day.
I will never grind for a character cosmetic this hard.
House furnishings, on the other hand, hot damn sign me up, I need a new throw rug and some curtains for the sitting room and I will farm hundreds of hours for 'em.
I'd buy the dropped schematics from you - I might be a Carpenter who makes furniture
Aw thanks, but I already have a Carpenter (probably), hence the throw rug and curtains part.
This game doesn't have Clothcrafting though, so idk where those actually come from.
I have a Looming feeling that they're just going to be random in-node stuff that players don't make like the better/sane BDO ones, but nothing concrete to support that feeling.
I don't think we'd be on the same server anyway. I'm all for schematic drops though. I love anything craftable/cosmetic/mount/resources to drop from bosses. Hence why I'm here. I really don't like gambling for actual gear every week.
I don't think Noaani played Wild Star with the ridiculous attunement process just to run 4 raids lol. Now that was 'full progression'.
Sounds grindy. Wish I tried it back then
Here we go for old time's sake:
Reach level 50 and accept the attunement quest. (level 50 has 15,000 Reputation - You need 32,000 to get the quest (Effectively making you level 100))
Acquire 150 Elder Gems to buy the attunement key.
Kill the elemental boss in Ulgar Widerrun.
Obtain Beloved Reputation with Dominion/Exile.
Complete the Arkship Heist event (or exile equivalent)
Obtain Silver Medals or Higher in Every Adventure.
Complete the Mech Assault Event in Farside.
Obtain silver medals or higher for every veteran dungeon.
Complete the slugging it out event in Malgrave.
Complete the flight of fancy event in Auroria.
Kill all 10 World Bosses.
Welcome to the Raids.
I mean, that just sounds like playing the game and then getting a reward in the form of a cool instance
The worst part was levelling in PvP and then realising you had to grind 32,000 reputation just to raid (You got reputation from PvE). On paper its like a paper tiger but in practice it was the most gruelling experience possible. At every stage was a gazillion kick backs or wipes. On top of that the medals were extremely difficult to achieve and most raid groups wanted raiders with gold medals. The game was founded by 17 ex blizzard devs who were the hardcorest players in blizzard. It did not translate well to the full game. Everything was difficult. Hence my attraction to Ashes (everything will be difficult). However, Wild Star player houses are still the pinnacle of houses in my mind.
Fortunately the chapter ended and I could return to less PvE focussed endeavours. PvP/PvX is my main love affair in RPGs to be honest.
Just to be clear, are we talking about the same Wildstar that managed to actually get a decent (not great, but decent) population and then couldn't hold on to them?
As with anything in life, the trick to getting people involved is to have a low barrier to entry, but then a really high ceiling once inside.
Wildstar had the opposite in regards to raiding. The game made it really hard to get started, and then when you were there the substance of the actual content was lacking, as was the quantity.
This seems to me to be the same mistake Ashes is making right now - though it is too early to say for sure.
Just to be clear, are we talking about the same Wildstar that managed to actually get a decent (not great, but decent) population and then couldn't hold on to them?
As with anything in life, the trick to getting people involved is to have a low barrier to entry, but then a really high ceiling once inside.
Wildstar had the opposite in regards to raiding. The game made it really hard to get started, and then when you were there the substance of the actual content was lacking, as was the quantity.
This seems to me to be the same mistake Ashes is making right now - though it is too early to say for sure.
You are correct. I'm actually impressed. Kudos for your knowledge. I think we've discussed Wild Star before. The attunement was hardcore as fuck but the raids were lacklustre as fuck. Hence I called it 'Full Progression' not 'Full Completion'. The game died because the devs didn't pay taxes and got shut down. I digress though. I've said in the other thread about the PvE Issue and the lacklustre bosses which are the main devs favourite - the lead game designer hadn't even done a raid a year ago (Possibly changed now like). The bosses which have spawn the inspiration in Ashes are rubbish with rubbish mechanics - just watch videos of the favourite bosses on youtube. The saving grace was the EQ influence but Jeffrey left.
Comments
The thing is, they have also said that some instances will - and I quote - "contain scripted and difficult boss fights that drop gear".
This is the part I am talking about.
Will the game have instanced arenas? Yep.
Will they be a part of that 20/80 split? Don't care.
Will the game have story instances? Yep.
Will they be a part of that 20/80 split? Don't care.
Will the game have instanced apartments? Yep.
Will they be a part of that 20/80 split? Don't care.
Will the game have instances that have scripted and difficult boss fights that drop gear? Fuck yes it will.
so maybe 1% of instances 4 u lol
didnt u say ur australian? or that u live in australia?
and well yeah the early stuff wont matter too much at level 50...unless u make it matter on purpose. i still count arena, castle siege, etc as an instance in the 20% of instanced content
My posts do not contain pointless stuff. Housing is content and 80/20 split on 'content' is the latest definition when 80/20 split was mentioned. For all you know, you could run the instance once get a reward and then not receive a reward the second, third, fourth time you run the instance. Seen it done before. What 'gear' can you get because any 'gear' is better than no gear. I might even have to run these instances in repetition myself to get this 'gear' just to compete with those who have the 'gear'. Especially if these instances are low level.
You desire/request/want PvE Progression Instance Raids to be added in the future which would mean a PvE Focussed Expansion. There might well be a PvE Focussed Expansion but I'd prefer a PvX Focussed expansion. The reason is simple - a PvE Focussed Expansion means there would have to be a PvP Focussed Expansion to make the balance PvX. I'm against a PvP Focussed Expansion is singularity. It often means PvP Armour and PvP Levels which is not PvX. Hence why I guard against singular expansion focusses in lieu of PvX Expansions.
Honestly, I don't really care - but I'll give you my reason for thinking it does count.
Right from the start, Intrepid talked about instances as being some dungeon content, and the arena. These were always talked about as "the two instanced content types".
In discussions where the 20/80 split is discussed, it is always about dungeon content. Since Intrepid had always kept dungeon and arena instances seperate, I see no reason as to why they wouldn't continue to keep them seperate here.
Again though, I don't care. The reason I don't care is because that 80/20 comment means about as much as Stevens comment of 40-50% of character power coming from gear. Both comments mean nothing without more information.
If you are talking about building a game world and laying out encounters in a logical manner, when you talk about content, you are not talking about housing.
If you are talking about dungeons and make the comment that 20% of that content will be instanced, you aren't talking about houses.
If you are creating a bullet point list of all content in the game, sure, housing is content. I mean - no?
Not unless Intrepid plan on expansions the size and scope of L2.
A proper MMO expansion can add a full years worth of detailed top end raid content, but still be highly focused on something else - such as PvP, or crafting, or adding a new continent, or a new player race, or a new node type, or a new religion - or all of the above if we are talking EQ2 scope expansions.
If the games expansions are going to be really small in scope, then yeah, adding this probably would require a PvE focused expansion.
Additionally, there is no reason at all as to why instanced raids can't be considered PvX, the only thing you are doing is taking the PvP and PvE elements of PvX and running them sequentially rather than in parallel.
However, none of that is anything at all to do with this thread. This is another of those pointless things that you bought up for no reason.
Did you even watch the videos I linked? When asked about WoW and Final Fantasy Players being enticed by raiding Steven said 'These players might enjoy the story modes/encounters' ' The instanced encounters will be fine combed to require very reactive gameplay to overcome certain types of challenges'.
Steven also calls the instances 'scenarios' and discusses the use of 'Monster Coin' functions. It seems the defeat of the bosses in 'scenarios' can trigger the Monster Coin events. Edit: These 'scenarios/monster coin events' are PvX in my eyes. I believe the PvP instances are 'Scenarios' also but these don't spawn 'Monster Coin' functionalities.
Its too bad people don't want cosmetics from Raid Instances because Guild War 1 only had Cosmetic Upgrades from most PvE after level 20 and everyone spent countless hours farming these Cosmetic Upgrades to show off. I realise Guild Wars 1 is a CORPG and not an MMORPG but Guild Wars 1 was the best PvP experience due to the systems involved.
Steven has a stupid name for instances, and instances can spawn monster coin events. Cool. Now what?
Yes we do, even final fantasy players want cosmetics from raid content (See Ultimate raids, cosmetic rewards for the hardest stuff)
Plus a cool title reward and character sheet border graphic thing.
Hardcore players will grind for cosmetics all day.
Well, I hope more Final Fantasy Players join our ranks then mate.
I will never grind for a character cosmetic this hard.
House furnishings, on the other hand, hot damn sign me up, I need a new throw rug and some curtains for the sitting room and I will farm hundreds of hours for 'em.
I'd buy the dropped schematics from you - I might be a Carpenter who makes furniture
Aw thanks, but I already have a Carpenter (probably), hence the throw rug and curtains part.
This game doesn't have Clothcrafting though, so idk where those actually come from.
I have a Looming feeling that they're just going to be random in-node stuff that players don't make like the better/sane BDO ones, but nothing concrete to support that feeling.
I don't think we'd be on the same server anyway. I'm all for schematic drops though. I love anything craftable/cosmetic/mount/resources to drop from bosses. Hence why I'm here. I really don't like gambling for actual gear every week.
In my experience, no they won't.
They may work towards cosmetics if there is no work that can be done on actual progression, but that is about it.
Even then, if that period without actual progression to work on is too long, they won't hang around for long.
Essentially, cosmetics can act as a temporary distraction.
I don't think Noaani played Wild Star with the ridiculous attunement process just to run 4 raids lol. Now that was 'full progression'.
Here we go for old time's sake:
Reach level 50 and accept the attunement quest. (level 50 has 15,000 Reputation - You need 32,000 to get the quest (Effectively making you level 100))
Acquire 150 Elder Gems to buy the attunement key.
Kill the elemental boss in Ulgar Widerrun.
Obtain Beloved Reputation with Dominion/Exile.
Complete the Arkship Heist event (or exile equivalent)
Obtain Silver Medals or Higher in Every Adventure.
Complete the Mech Assault Event in Farside.
Obtain silver medals or higher for every veteran dungeon.
Complete the slugging it out event in Malgrave.
Complete the flight of fancy event in Auroria.
Kill all 10 World Bosses.
Welcome to the Raids.
Haha. Hardcore to the extreme.
The worst part was levelling in PvP and then realising you had to grind 32,000 reputation just to raid (You got reputation from PvE). On paper its like a paper tiger but in practice it was the most gruelling experience possible. At every stage was a gazillion kick backs or wipes. On top of that the medals were extremely difficult to achieve and most raid groups wanted raiders with gold medals. The game was founded by 17 ex blizzard devs who were the hardcorest players in blizzard. It did not translate well to the full game. Everything was difficult. Hence my attraction to Ashes (everything will be difficult). However, Wild Star player houses are still the pinnacle of houses in my mind.
Fortunately the chapter ended and I could return to less PvE focussed endeavours. PvP/PvX is my main love affair in RPGs to be honest.
As with anything in life, the trick to getting people involved is to have a low barrier to entry, but then a really high ceiling once inside.
Wildstar had the opposite in regards to raiding. The game made it really hard to get started, and then when you were there the substance of the actual content was lacking, as was the quantity.
This seems to me to be the same mistake Ashes is making right now - though it is too early to say for sure.
You are correct. I'm actually impressed. Kudos for your knowledge. I think we've discussed Wild Star before. The attunement was hardcore as fuck but the raids were lacklustre as fuck. Hence I called it 'Full Progression' not 'Full Completion'. The game died because the devs didn't pay taxes and got shut down. I digress though. I've said in the other thread about the PvE Issue and the lacklustre bosses which are the main devs favourite - the lead game designer hadn't even done a raid a year ago (Possibly changed now like). The bosses which have spawn the inspiration in Ashes are rubbish with rubbish mechanics - just watch videos of the favourite bosses on youtube. The saving grace was the EQ influence but Jeffrey left.