How does a system that can be ignored make people feel used?
Perhaps talk to gambling addicts, or alcoholics. Both of these things can be ignored.
So much that. If everyone could resist temptation or fomo we wouldnt need so many regulations. And dont get me started to children getting flooded by this kind of stuff.
I am so happy to have grown up with videogames that dont try to "steal" my pocket money.
This doesn't make sense its like saying if you don't buy a item on the store its fomo. You can use the same argument on any store item. So its not valid against a bp. If there is any store item you don't want simply don't buy it, these are cosmetics. You can earn in game armor like a normal mmmorpg you are not missing out on anything.
Is a BP okay if it only rewards lootboxes?
I'm not making a serious point here, nor intending to derail anything with it, just really curious what you think of that.
Lootboxes would be an entirely different discussion because you are injecting gambling into the game.
I assume you haven't realized that the next phase of battlepass "features" will be randomizing which cosmetics you get.
How does a system that can be ignored make people feel used?
Perhaps talk to gambling addicts, or alcoholics. Both of these things can be ignored.
So much that. If everyone could resist temptation or fomo we wouldnt need so many regulations. And dont get me started to children getting flooded by this kind of stuff.
I am so happy to have grown up with videogames that dont try to "steal" my pocket money.
This doesn't make sense its like saying if you don't buy a item on the store its fomo. You can use the same argument on any store item. So its not valid against a bp. If there is any store item you don't want simply don't buy it, these are cosmetics. You can earn in game armor like a normal mmmorpg you are not missing out on anything.
Is a BP okay if it only rewards lootboxes?
I'm not making a serious point here, nor intending to derail anything with it, just really curious what you think of that.
Lootboxes would be an entirely different discussion because you are injecting gambling into the game.
I assume you haven't realized that the next phase of battlepass "features" will be randomizing which cosmetics you get.
I highly doubt the next phase is moving back to lootboxes, as people are moving away from lootboxes for BP.
Even if a game does go back towards lootboxes than people would have a more legitimist argument against anything gambling related In terms of spending money. Again no one here is arguing for lootboxes.
How does a system that can be ignored make people feel used?
Perhaps talk to gambling addicts, or alcoholics. Both of these things can be ignored.
So much that. If everyone could resist temptation or fomo we wouldnt need so many regulations. And dont get me started to children getting flooded by this kind of stuff.
I am so happy to have grown up with videogames that dont try to "steal" my pocket money.
This doesn't make sense its like saying if you don't buy a item on the store its fomo. You can use the same argument on any store item. So its not valid against a bp. If there is any store item you don't want simply don't buy it, these are cosmetics. You can earn in game armor like a normal mmmorpg you are not missing out on anything.
Is a BP okay if it only rewards lootboxes?
I'm not making a serious point here, nor intending to derail anything with it, just really curious what you think of that.
Lootboxes would be an entirely different discussion because you are injecting gambling into the game.
I assume you haven't realized that the next phase of battlepass "features" will be randomizing which cosmetics you get.
I highly doubt the next phase is moving back to lootboxes, as people are moving away from lootboxes for BP.
They are moving from loot boxes to battlepass because courts ruled loot boxes to be gambling, in part because there was no significant effort, just money.
Battlepass is literally the replacement for loot boxes. The next step is to randomize the reward, and since that "effort" is there, Epic feel they can get around gambling laws via a loophole.
How does a system that can be ignored make people feel used?
Perhaps talk to gambling addicts, or alcoholics. Both of these things can be ignored.
So much that. If everyone could resist temptation or fomo we wouldnt need so many regulations. And dont get me started to children getting flooded by this kind of stuff.
I am so happy to have grown up with videogames that dont try to "steal" my pocket money.
This doesn't make sense its like saying if you don't buy a item on the store its fomo. You can use the same argument on any store item. So its not valid against a bp. If there is any store item you don't want simply don't buy it, these are cosmetics. You can earn in game armor like a normal mmmorpg you are not missing out on anything.
Is a BP okay if it only rewards lootboxes?
I'm not making a serious point here, nor intending to derail anything with it, just really curious what you think of that.
Lootboxes would be an entirely different discussion because you are injecting gambling into the game.
I assume you haven't realized that the next phase of battlepass "features" will be randomizing which cosmetics you get.
I highly doubt the next phase is moving back to lootboxes, as people are moving away from lootboxes for BP.
They are moving from loot boxes to battlepass because courts ruled loot boxes to be gambling, in part because there was no significant effort, just money.
Battlepass is literally the replacement for loot boxes. The next step is to randomize the reward, and since that "effort" is there, Epic feel they can get around gambling laws via a loophole.
Doesn't really matter no one is arguing for loot boxes here, BP with random items is a loot box.
This is also not new those kinds of loot boxes already exist, for many many years.
How does a system that can be ignored make people feel used?
Perhaps talk to gambling addicts, or alcoholics. Both of these things can be ignored.
So much that. If everyone could resist temptation or fomo we wouldnt need so many regulations. And dont get me started to children getting flooded by this kind of stuff.
I am so happy to have grown up with videogames that dont try to "steal" my pocket money.
This doesn't make sense its like saying if you don't buy a item on the store its fomo. You can use the same argument on any store item. So its not valid against a bp. If there is any store item you don't want simply don't buy it, these are cosmetics. You can earn in game armor like a normal mmmorpg you are not missing out on anything.
Is a BP okay if it only rewards lootboxes?
I'm not making a serious point here, nor intending to derail anything with it, just really curious what you think of that.
Lootboxes would be an entirely different discussion because you are injecting gambling into the game.
I assume you haven't realized that the next phase of battlepass "features" will be randomizing which cosmetics you get.
I highly doubt the next phase is moving back to lootboxes, as people are moving away from lootboxes for BP.
They are moving from loot boxes to battlepass because courts ruled loot boxes to be gambling, in part because there was no significant effort, just money.
Battlepass is literally the replacement for loot boxes. The next step is to randomize the reward, and since that "effort" is there, Epic feel they can get around gambling laws via a loophole.
Doesn't really matter no one is arguing for loot boxes here, BP with random items is a loot box.
This is also not new those kinds of loot boxes already exist, for many many years.
Cool - so you'll be arguing against battlepass before long.
What you seem to not grasp is that there is no reason to add a battlepass to any game other than as a work around to not being able to have loot boxes any more.
Like, that is its only function. Epic are playing the long game with Fortnite (they always do), and other smaller developers are just copying because they want to check that box.
Reality is though, there is no reason to add a battlepass, it is not the best way to add content to a game unless the idea is to eventually get players addicted - just as was the case with loot boxes.
If a developer wants to add content to a game, they can just add it. If it is not a free addition to a game, a DLC in which the content is defined, or a cash shop purchase in which the purchase is defined, then the developer has deception as a prime motivation and us players should not stand for it.
How does a system that can be ignored make people feel used?
Perhaps talk to gambling addicts, or alcoholics. Both of these things can be ignored.
So much that. If everyone could resist temptation or fomo we wouldnt need so many regulations. And dont get me started to children getting flooded by this kind of stuff.
I am so happy to have grown up with videogames that dont try to "steal" my pocket money.
This doesn't make sense its like saying if you don't buy a item on the store its fomo. You can use the same argument on any store item. So its not valid against a bp. If there is any store item you don't want simply don't buy it, these are cosmetics. You can earn in game armor like a normal mmmorpg you are not missing out on anything.
Is a BP okay if it only rewards lootboxes?
I'm not making a serious point here, nor intending to derail anything with it, just really curious what you think of that.
Lootboxes would be an entirely different discussion because you are injecting gambling into the game.
I assume you haven't realized that the next phase of battlepass "features" will be randomizing which cosmetics you get.
I highly doubt the next phase is moving back to lootboxes, as people are moving away from lootboxes for BP.
They are moving from loot boxes to battlepass because courts ruled loot boxes to be gambling, in part because there was no significant effort, just money.
Battlepass is literally the replacement for loot boxes. The next step is to randomize the reward, and since that "effort" is there, Epic feel they can get around gambling laws via a loophole.
Doesn't really matter no one is arguing for loot boxes here, BP with random items is a loot box.
This is also not new those kinds of loot boxes already exist, for many many years.
Cool - so you'll be arguing against battlepass before long.
What you seem to not grasp is that there is no reason to add a battlepass to any game other than as a work around to not being able to have loot boxes any more.
Like, that is its only function. Epic are playing the long game with Fortnite (they always do), and other smaller developers are just copying because they want to check that box.
Reality is though, there is no reason to add a battlepass, it is not the best way to add content to a game unless the idea is to eventually get players addicted - just as was the case with loot boxes.
If a developer wants to add content to a game, they can just add it. If it is not a free addition to a game, a DLC in which the content is defined, or a cash shop purchase in which the purchase is defined, then the developer has deception as a prime motivation and us players should not stand for it.
How does a system that can be ignored make people feel used?
Perhaps talk to gambling addicts, or alcoholics. Both of these things can be ignored.
So much that. If everyone could resist temptation or fomo we wouldnt need so many regulations. And dont get me started to children getting flooded by this kind of stuff.
I am so happy to have grown up with videogames that dont try to "steal" my pocket money.
This doesn't make sense its like saying if you don't buy a item on the store its fomo. You can use the same argument on any store item. So its not valid against a bp. If there is any store item you don't want simply don't buy it, these are cosmetics. You can earn in game armor like a normal mmmorpg you are not missing out on anything.
Is a BP okay if it only rewards lootboxes?
I'm not making a serious point here, nor intending to derail anything with it, just really curious what you think of that.
Lootboxes would be an entirely different discussion because you are injecting gambling into the game.
I assume you haven't realized that the next phase of battlepass "features" will be randomizing which cosmetics you get.
I highly doubt the next phase is moving back to lootboxes, as people are moving away from lootboxes for BP.
They are moving from loot boxes to battlepass because courts ruled loot boxes to be gambling, in part because there was no significant effort, just money.
Battlepass is literally the replacement for loot boxes. The next step is to randomize the reward, and since that "effort" is there, Epic feel they can get around gambling laws via a loophole.
Doesn't really matter no one is arguing for loot boxes here, BP with random items is a loot box.
This is also not new those kinds of loot boxes already exist, for many many years.
Cool - so you'll be arguing against battlepass before long.
What you seem to not grasp is that there is no reason to add a battlepass to any game other than as a work around to not being able to have loot boxes any more.
Like, that is its only function. Epic are playing the long game with Fortnite (they always do), and other smaller developers are just copying because they want to check that box.
Reality is though, there is no reason to add a battlepass, it is not the best way to add content to a game unless the idea is to eventually get players addicted - just as was the case with loot boxes.
If a developer wants to add content to a game, they can just add it. If it is not a free addition to a game, a DLC in which the content is defined, or a cash shop purchase in which the purchase is defined, then the developer has deception as a prime motivation and us players should not stand for it.
You are just doing a derail post.
So, when I said "there is no reason to add a battlepass, it is not the best way to add content to a game unless the idea is to eventually get players addicted", rather than attempting to continue to defend battlepass, you are instead going to say I am trying to derail the thread, despite the fact that your previous three posts in reply to me were in relation to loot boxes?
Do you not know that people can see right through you?
EIther way, feel free to argue the point that I have made above about battlepass, if you think you can.
0
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Like, that is its only function. Epic are playing the long game with Fortnite (they always do), and other smaller developers are just copying because they want to check that box.
Why does it matter that BPs are replacing Loot Boxes? That's a great thing.
I'd much rather spend $11 per month to get 10 Skins I want, plus a bunch of other BR items, plus the BP Tasks - than to spend $50 a month on Loot Boxes and maybe, if I'm lucky, get one item I like.
The Fortnite Item Shop is much closer to Loot Boxes than the Fortnite BP - and even that is not as bad as Loot Boxes.
Reality is though, there is no reason to add a battlepass, it is not the best way to add content to a game unless the idea is to eventually get players addicted - just as was the case with loot boxes.
There's no reason for them not to.
BPs do not get players addicted to anything. Hunting BiS gear via Dungeons and Raids is way more addicting for people who do that than playing BPs.
If a developer wants to add content to a game, they can just add it. If it is not a free addition to a game, a DLC in which the content is defined, or a cash shop purchase in which the purchase is defined, then the developer has deception as a prime motivation and us players should not stand for it.
Well, I think what you mean is that devs could add Seasonal content seasonally without a BP.
But, if they want people seeking Cosmetics to play for 100 hours rather than 20-30 hours or even 20-40 hours, they will add something like a Battlepass in order to entice the Casual Challenge players who are not interested in hunting BiS gear (which is 75% of the player population) to have fun complete Casual Challenge BP Tasks.
How does a system that can be ignored make people feel used?
Perhaps talk to gambling addicts, or alcoholics. Both of these things can be ignored.
So much that. If everyone could resist temptation or fomo we wouldnt need so many regulations. And dont get me started to children getting flooded by this kind of stuff.
I am so happy to have grown up with videogames that dont try to "steal" my pocket money.
This doesn't make sense its like saying if you don't buy a item on the store its fomo. You can use the same argument on any store item. So its not valid against a bp. If there is any store item you don't want simply don't buy it, these are cosmetics. You can earn in game armor like a normal mmmorpg you are not missing out on anything.
Is a BP okay if it only rewards lootboxes?
I'm not making a serious point here, nor intending to derail anything with it, just really curious what you think of that.
Lootboxes would be an entirely different discussion because you are injecting gambling into the game.
I assume you haven't realized that the next phase of battlepass "features" will be randomizing which cosmetics you get.
I highly doubt the next phase is moving back to lootboxes, as people are moving away from lootboxes for BP.
They are moving from loot boxes to battlepass because courts ruled loot boxes to be gambling, in part because there was no significant effort, just money.
Battlepass is literally the replacement for loot boxes. The next step is to randomize the reward, and since that "effort" is there, Epic feel they can get around gambling laws via a loophole.
Doesn't really matter no one is arguing for loot boxes here, BP with random items is a loot box.
This is also not new those kinds of loot boxes already exist, for many many years.
Cool - so you'll be arguing against battlepass before long.
What you seem to not grasp is that there is no reason to add a battlepass to any game other than as a work around to not being able to have loot boxes any more.
Like, that is its only function. Epic are playing the long game with Fortnite (they always do), and other smaller developers are just copying because they want to check that box.
Reality is though, there is no reason to add a battlepass, it is not the best way to add content to a game unless the idea is to eventually get players addicted - just as was the case with loot boxes.
If a developer wants to add content to a game, they can just add it. If it is not a free addition to a game, a DLC in which the content is defined, or a cash shop purchase in which the purchase is defined, then the developer has deception as a prime motivation and us players should not stand for it.
You are just doing a derail post.
So, when I said "there is no reason to add a battlepass, it is not the best way to add content to a game unless the idea is to eventually get players addicted", rather than attempting to continue to defend battlepass, you are instead going to say I am trying to derail the thread, despite the fact that your previous three posts in reply to me were in relation to loot boxes?
Do you not know that people can see right through you?
EIther way, feel free to argue the point that I have made above about battlepass, if you think you can.
tbh if it wasnt for the battle pass in pokemon unite, I wouldn't log in every day. sometimes I don't wanna play but I feel forced to ugh! cuz of the daily missions. i can only miss a few days per bp if I want to complete it .-.
I like the game, but I don't wanna play it every day. i play mobas on and off casually ;-; but then I'm like cant miss the bp ugh
Well, I think what you mean is that devs could add Seasonal content seasonally without a BP.
No - if that is what I meant to say, that is what I would have said.
If developers want to add content to a game, they can just add it.
But, if they want people seeking Cosmetics to play for 100 hours rather than 20-30 hours or even 20-40 hours, they will add something like a Battlepass in order to entice the Casual Challenge players who are not interested in hunting BiS gear (which is 75% of the player population) to have fun complete Casual Challenge BP Tasks.
Yes, but developers don't care if you are running meanial tasks like that.
The only reason they would care is if they want to be able to point to you running those tasks in the future and say "look, not gambling!".
That is the point of those tasks.
The EU ruled that loot boxes were gambling largely because there was no gameplay involved, just an exchange of money (which was the difference between an RNG mob drop or an RNG loot crate). Add meanial tasks to a loot box, and you have "not gambling" - or at least that is what Epic are thinking.
And that is why they have them. They don't have them because they are great content, or a great system how they are right now. How they are right now is a precursor to how they are intended to be, how they were always intended to be. How they are now is a state to get people thinking this kind of content is in some way "normal".
If Epic wanted to give players 100 hours of tasks to do in order to get a cosmetic, and had no other motivation at all behind it, they would have used the games achievement system - potentially even adding in temporary achievements in order to add in the time limit.
The fact that they have added it as a battlepass, and added a paid for battlepass really should stand out to everyone with a giant fuck-off arrow pointing to a neon green sign saying "we're going to fuck you all over with this", because that is what it is.
Again, companies are not your friend. They are not doing things to be nice. They are not creating value to benfit you.
They are making cosmetics as cheaply as they can, and then pushing them to players in the way that they think will make them the most money.
How does a system that can be ignored make people feel used?
Perhaps talk to gambling addicts, or alcoholics. Both of these things can be ignored.
So much that. If everyone could resist temptation or fomo we wouldnt need so many regulations. And dont get me started to children getting flooded by this kind of stuff.
I am so happy to have grown up with videogames that dont try to "steal" my pocket money.
This doesn't make sense its like saying if you don't buy a item on the store its fomo. You can use the same argument on any store item. So its not valid against a bp. If there is any store item you don't want simply don't buy it, these are cosmetics. You can earn in game armor like a normal mmmorpg you are not missing out on anything.
Is a BP okay if it only rewards lootboxes?
I'm not making a serious point here, nor intending to derail anything with it, just really curious what you think of that.
Lootboxes would be an entirely different discussion because you are injecting gambling into the game.
I assume you haven't realized that the next phase of battlepass "features" will be randomizing which cosmetics you get.
I highly doubt the next phase is moving back to lootboxes, as people are moving away from lootboxes for BP.
They are moving from loot boxes to battlepass because courts ruled loot boxes to be gambling, in part because there was no significant effort, just money.
Battlepass is literally the replacement for loot boxes. The next step is to randomize the reward, and since that "effort" is there, Epic feel they can get around gambling laws via a loophole.
Doesn't really matter no one is arguing for loot boxes here, BP with random items is a loot box.
This is also not new those kinds of loot boxes already exist, for many many years.
Cool - so you'll be arguing against battlepass before long.
What you seem to not grasp is that there is no reason to add a battlepass to any game other than as a work around to not being able to have loot boxes any more.
Like, that is its only function. Epic are playing the long game with Fortnite (they always do), and other smaller developers are just copying because they want to check that box.
Reality is though, there is no reason to add a battlepass, it is not the best way to add content to a game unless the idea is to eventually get players addicted - just as was the case with loot boxes.
If a developer wants to add content to a game, they can just add it. If it is not a free addition to a game, a DLC in which the content is defined, or a cash shop purchase in which the purchase is defined, then the developer has deception as a prime motivation and us players should not stand for it.
You are just doing a derail post.
So, when I said "there is no reason to add a battlepass, it is not the best way to add content to a game unless the idea is to eventually get players addicted", rather than attempting to continue to defend battlepass, you are instead going to say I am trying to derail the thread, despite the fact that your previous three posts in reply to me were in relation to loot boxes?
Do you not know that people can see right through you?
EIther way, feel free to argue the point that I have made above about battlepass, if you think you can.
deraaaiiilllll
RIght, so, I'm asking you to defend your position, and you are claiming I am derailing.
What has been mandated in certain European countries in regards to loot boxes is simply to tell you the odds. Valve and many other company's baited players into believing that the system is better then it really is (there is never any random anyway). Your first few (or even first purchase) is gonna be great. This is manufactured. So instead they now have to tell you the chance is 1/100 or what ever. (This goes for the Netherlands and Belgium for now).
What has been mandated in certain European countries in regards to loot boxes is simply to tell you the odds.
Not quite.
There were about 20 different cases being tried over the last 3 years. What you are talking about is the result of (I believe) three of them - and was against Valve, not Epic.
Keep in mind, Epic have settled cases with the FTC, the EU, The Government of British Columbia and a number of other authorities in just the last 12 months in relation to loot boxes. I don't expect anyone (myself included) to keep up with them all.
However, there have also been rulings in regards to loot boxes against Sony and EA in the last few years, and I believe it was one of the cases against them that the comment about no time investment was made.
It may have been in Austria, but I can't remember and am not going to look it up just now - though I do know Sony/EA did have a case in Austria.
1
ShadowVenMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited June 6
As long as the BP doesn't cost any extra (included in the Sub) and is used as an extra layer of obtainable rewards for doing activities outside of quests, i'm fine with it. But it definitely should NOT contain 2 different paths, such as, Free and Premium. It should just be included in the sub and for example a final reward for completing a certain number of BP levels could give you a Mount Skin or something like that.
How does a system that can be ignored make people feel used?
Perhaps talk to gambling addicts, or alcoholics. Both of these things can be ignored.
So much that. If everyone could resist temptation or fomo we wouldnt need so many regulations. And dont get me started to children getting flooded by this kind of stuff.
I am so happy to have grown up with videogames that dont try to "steal" my pocket money.
This doesn't make sense its like saying if you don't buy a item on the store its fomo. You can use the same argument on any store item. So its not valid against a bp. If there is any store item you don't want simply don't buy it, these are cosmetics. You can earn in game armor like a normal mmmorpg you are not missing out on anything.
Is a BP okay if it only rewards lootboxes?
I'm not making a serious point here, nor intending to derail anything with it, just really curious what you think of that.
Lootboxes would be an entirely different discussion because you are injecting gambling into the game.
I assume you haven't realized that the next phase of battlepass "features" will be randomizing which cosmetics you get.
I highly doubt the next phase is moving back to lootboxes, as people are moving away from lootboxes for BP.
They are moving from loot boxes to battlepass because courts ruled loot boxes to be gambling, in part because there was no significant effort, just money.
Battlepass is literally the replacement for loot boxes. The next step is to randomize the reward, and since that "effort" is there, Epic feel they can get around gambling laws via a loophole.
Doesn't really matter no one is arguing for loot boxes here, BP with random items is a loot box.
This is also not new those kinds of loot boxes already exist, for many many years.
Cool - so you'll be arguing against battlepass before long.
What you seem to not grasp is that there is no reason to add a battlepass to any game other than as a work around to not being able to have loot boxes any more.
Like, that is its only function. Epic are playing the long game with Fortnite (they always do), and other smaller developers are just copying because they want to check that box.
Reality is though, there is no reason to add a battlepass, it is not the best way to add content to a game unless the idea is to eventually get players addicted - just as was the case with loot boxes.
If a developer wants to add content to a game, they can just add it. If it is not a free addition to a game, a DLC in which the content is defined, or a cash shop purchase in which the purchase is defined, then the developer has deception as a prime motivation and us players should not stand for it.
You are just doing a derail post.
So, when I said "there is no reason to add a battlepass, it is not the best way to add content to a game unless the idea is to eventually get players addicted", rather than attempting to continue to defend battlepass, you are instead going to say I am trying to derail the thread, despite the fact that your previous three posts in reply to me were in relation to loot boxes?
Do you not know that people can see right through you?
EIther way, feel free to argue the point that I have made above about battlepass, if you think you can.
deraaaiiilllll
RIght, so, I'm asking you to defend your position, and you are claiming I am derailing.
How very phallic of you.
You are derailing so hard 0 reason for me to even entertain it.
If developers want to add content to a game, they can just add it.
I dunno what that is supposed to mean.
They can't just immediately add new content when the old content runs out.
And they are going to want to find ways to keep players playing once they've run out of new content.
Which is what BPs help with.
The EU ruled that loot boxes were gambling largely because there was no gameplay involved, just an exchange of money (which was the difference between an RNG mob drop or an RNG loot crate). Add meanial tasks to a loot box, and you have "not gambling" - or at least that is what Epic are thinking.
That might be the dumbest thing you've ever written.
BPs are nothing like a Loot Box. There is no RNG to BP rewards. And, the paid path of a BP is a one time fee that is cheaper than a sub and also typically the same price or cheaper as the cheapest items in an Item Shop.
And that is why they have them. They don't have them because they are great content, or a great system how they are right now. How they are right now is a precursor to how they are intended to be, how they were always intended to be. How they are now is a state to get people thinking this kind of content is in some way "normal".
I dunno what your measure of "great content" is.
But, nope, your assertion is absurd.
Rewards on a Battlepass are on par with rewards in an Item Shop. But the cheapest items in an Item Shop are typically around $10 and can go up to $50 or more. And a paid Battlepass path is typically $10 for 10 items that are on par with what's available in the Item Shop. Plus, at least 5 items or more on the BP path.
So the BP provides the players with items that are on par with items in the Shop at a much cheaper price - and the Battlepass Tasks reward players for playing the game in a variety of ways - even encouraging players to try out activities and game modes they might typically completely ignore (which is another reason that devs care about players playing their content and not just about how much money they can grab from the players).
If Epic wanted to give players 100 hours of tasks to do in order to get a cosmetic, and had no other motivation at all behind it, they would have used the games achievement system - potentially even adding in temporary achievements in order to add in the time limit.
Again - this is sooo dumb - and comes from you making shit up in your own head because you don't know how BPs actually work.
You don't play 100 hours just to get one Cosmetic. You play 100 hours to get 14 Cosmetics, plus a bunch of other stuff, plus a bunch of Embers/VBucks/Traders Tender you can also spend on more Cosmetics in the Shop or to cover the cost of the next BP. All for the price of one the cheapest items in the Item Shop.
With Fortnite, I'm primarily paying for the free Character Skin that comes at the start of every month for being a member of the Fortnite Crew - and the fee for that premium Character Skin (which includes the main BP) is going to be cheaper than the cheapest Character Skins in the Item Shop.
The fact that they have added it as a battlepass, and added a paid for battlepass really should stand out to everyone with a giant fuck-off arrow pointing to a neon green sign saying "we're going to fuck you all over with this", because that is what it is.
I mean... it's more apt to say that the BP is added/updated at the same time new Seasonal DLCs are added.
You still have not explained what you think the the fuck over part is. Other than "Clearly, the Sun orbits the Earth and the Moon is made of green cheese!"
Again, companies are not your friend. They are not doing things to be nice. They are not creating value to benfit you.
Publishers are not gamers' friends.
Devs will want players and gamers to have fun playing their game for as long as possible - and they will try to entice players to engage in all of the activities their game has to offer.
They are making cosmetics as cheaply as they can, and then pushing them to players in the way that they think will make them the most money.
Nope. Your assertion is false on several levels.
BP Cosmetics are on par with what's already in the Item Shop/Cosmetics Store.
In fact, the "cheaply made" LEGO Character Skins have much less detail than the premium Character Skins in the Item Shop. The cheaply made Skins are around 1.5K vBucks. Premium Skins are around 2K vBucks. The Skins associated with the BP are all premium Skins - very high detail. Which is the primary reason I pay $10 for The Fornite Crew perks. Because the price of the first Premium Skin that I immediately acquire on the 1st of each month is already cheaper than 1.5K vBucks. And then I'm going to end the Battlepass with 14 other Character Skins + 1K vBucks + a bunch of other items.
In the Ashes Store, the Remnant Sympathizer costume set costs $25. The Collector’s Touch Glove costs $5.
I would prefer to spend $10 and do 100 hours of BP Tasks to get a full set on par with that. Which is what BPs offer (+ Embers + a bunch of other stuff).
In Fortnite, specifically, the Item Shop is where the vast majority of the money is spent. Especially because that's where all the fomo. Even more so because some of the items appear for 2-3 days and then might not be available again in the store for 2-3 years. And there's no way to anticipate when they will reappear in the Item Shop.
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bloodprophetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
They can't just immediately add new content when the old content runs out.
Why?
Why can't they just add new content as they wish?
Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
Why?
Why can't they just add new content as they wish?
This question is the same gamer mentality Steven had when he thought he would be able to release Ashes "Before 2020".
Same reason why we have not seen Dünir in the game world in the 3 year interim between Alpha 1 and Alpha 2.
Same reason why we have not seen Niküa and Tulnar in the Ashes game world yet.
Because it takes a lot of time to create new content.
Especially to write unique dialogue for Quests. And to create gear with balanced stat blocks for each Quest.
And to create new locations and to create new mobs associated with those Quests. And to test all of that.
Which is why devs designed the hunt for BiS gear via repeating Dungeons and Raids ad nauseum, with plenty of RNG - to try to keep gamers playing 12-18 months while they wait for the next Expansion.
Again... yes, the devs could just implement Seasonal DLCs without a Battlepass. But players would complete that in 20-30 hours or 40-60 hours and then stop playing while they wait for the next drop of new content.
A Battlepass gives players more stuff to do - similar to Achievements - that keep players repeating content after they have completely experienced all the new content one or two times. It typically takes about 80-100 hours to reach the end of a BP.
0
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
It can be done via Expansions if you want to wait 12-18 months for new content. The devs would prefer if it did not take them 12-18 months to add new content.
The devs would prefer if they could add new content every month or even every week. They can't.
They would also prefer if gamers didn't race through Expansions in 100 hours and then quit playing.
And they would also prefer that players play Seasonal DLCs for 100 hours rather than for 20-30 hours.
Instead of masses of players quitting once they hit Endgame.
Why?
Why can't they just add new content as they wish?
This question is the same gamer mentality Steven had when he thought he would be able to release Ashes "Before 2020".
Same reason why we have not seen Dünir in the game world in the 3 year interim between Alpha 1 and Alpha 2.
Same reason why we have not seen Niküa and Tulnar in the Ashes game world yet.
Because it takes a lot of time to create new content.
This is untrue.
It takes a long time to build the game. Once the game is built, assuming you also have good tools, making content is fairly easy in comparison.
If a game like WoW was putting its revenue back in to the game, they would have been able to release an expansion every 3-4 months - they would have had 4 or 5 teams working on expansions at the same time in order to avoid rushed work. This is similar to how SoE operated, just not with thet many teams, and is why both EQ and EQ2 with significantly smaller populations than WoW were each able to release a similar sized expansion every year (well, along with prioritizing what was important and ignoring what isnt).
They primarily care that players are playing as frequently as the devs can entice players to play.
No, they only care how much money they make.
Publicly listed companies are legally obliged to make as much money for their investors as they can. Shareholders have taken companies to court to prevent them paying hard working staff a bonus - and they have always won. That is the level to which they don't care about anything other than profit for shareholders.
Again, if a publicly listed company does something, it is to make them as much money as possible. By actual law (in America, at least).
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited June 6
LMFAO
So, pray tell... why does it always take at least 12 months for a new Expansion?
I mean... I've been a game dev for 10 years, so... I do actually know how dev schedules and production cycles work. And how game devs think.
But, yes, I am more likely to spend $120 per year playing a Battlepass than I am to spend $120 per year in a Cosmetics store - especially if there is a BP and a Cosmetics Store.
That's true for APOC, NW and WoW.
(The exception being LEGO Fortnite because I love their Character Skins - but... from 1990 - 2012, I typically spent $120 per month on comic books.)
I'm going to ask why they are selling them for $5. I can tell you now, they are doing it for their benefit, not yours.
Why not both? The benefit with a Battlepass is that the devs/publishers retain more players longer compared to not having a BP..
Counterpoint: If a noticeable amount of the playerbase spend their time in the game chasing battlepass objectives, *I* will be more likely to leave the game years earlier than if those players were required to interact with the game world and other players to come up with things to do and achieve. Because of how much more tedious it would be to get players to coordinate on a mutual goal/activity, and how much more empty and nihilistic the game would make me feel, if tons of players are constantly running around chasing a new task list instead of having their own thoughts about the next thing they want to achieve in the game.
You can't just claim that it'll be a net benefit on the player count because there's some benefit in carrot-on-a-stick entertainment for some players, and ignore the repercussions on the community connection.
The only one who can validate you for all the posts you didn't write is you.
Why?
Why can't they just add new content as they wish?
This question is the same gamer mentality Steven had when he thought he would be able to release Ashes "Before 2020".
Same reason why we have not seen Dünir in the game world in the 3 year interim between Alpha 1 and Alpha 2.
Same reason why we have not seen Niküa and Tulnar in the Ashes game world yet.
Because it takes a lot of time to create new content.
Especially to write unique dialogue for Quests. And to create gear with balanced stat blocks for each Quest.
And to create new locations and to create new mobs associated with those Quests. And to test all of that.
Which is why devs designed the hunt for BiS gear via repeating Dungeons and Raids ad nauseum, with plenty of RNG - to try to keep gamers playing 12-18 months while they wait for the next Expansion.
Again... yes, the devs could just implement Seasonal DLCs without a Battlepass. But players would complete that in 20-30 hours or 40-60 hours and then stop playing while they wait for the next drop of new content.
A Battlepass gives players more stuff to do - similar to Achievements - that keep players repeating content after they have completely experienced all the new content one or two times. It typically takes about 80-100 hours to reach the end of a BP.
Just want to make sure I understand your point here.
Are you saying they can't set goals and create content on 60-90 day basis. Then install said content into the game.
but
If they have a BP then they can create and release content every 60-90 days.
You said several pages ago in Fortnite you get your tasks. Jump into a game mode then back out of the game mode as it starts, without playing the game at all. Just to check the box of I did a thing.
How is this keeping people engaged in the game? This seems like it is just a metrics thing: Look how many players we have.
While disregarding the fact they aren't playing the game at all just logging into a game mode and back out without interacting with the other players. This kind of behavior seems counter intuitive to the social aspect of what an MMO is supposed to be.
Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
LMFAO
So, pray tell... why does it always take at least 12 months for a new Expansion?
It doesn't.
There was 9 months between EQ2's DoF and KoS expansions, at which point they slotted all expansions to be released in November or December - and the reason it is 12 months between expansions is because they aim to release in that window. They have deemed that the most profitable time for them to release expansions (they are also a company).
I mean... I've been a game dev for 10 years, so... I do actually know how dev schedules and production cycles work.
If this were true, you wouldn't have conflated building a game from scratch with adding content to an existing game - unless you said that knowing it was a lie.
So, either you were lying when you said thst initial statement, or are lying in saying you have been a game developer for 10 years.
A QA tester I would believe (begrudgingly), but not a developer.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Counterpoint: If a noticeable amount of the playerbase spend their time in the game chasing battlepass objectives, *I* will be more likely to leave the game years earlier than if those players were required to interact with the game world and other players to come up with things to do and achieve. Because of how much more tedious it would be to get players to coordinate on a mutual goal/activity, and how much more empty and nihilistic the game would make me feel, if tons of players are constantly running around chasing a new task list instead of having their own thoughts about the next thing they want to achieve in the game.
You say that because you have no clue what Battlepass Tasks are like.
Battlepass Tasks inherently require players to interact with the gameworld - that is the entire point of them.
Battlepasses do not inherently require people to interact with other players any more than Quests or Achievements or Bulletin Board Tasks do, but completing Dungeons and Raids are also categories of Battlepass Tasks, so people who like to interact with others via Dungeons and Raids can focus on those Tasks.
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In LEGO Fortnite, my current Survival World Dailies are:
Deal Melee Damage 0/50
Craft E-11 Blaster Rifle 0/1
Craft Harvesting Tools 0/1
It's is not tedious or difficult to interact with other players while dealing melee damage. Indeed, it's quite likely that people will be in the vicinity of other players while dealing melee damage. That Task certainly does not prevent anyone from coordinating with others to complete the Task if that's what they want to do.
But, also... you don't even have to look at that BP Task to complete it. If you spend your game session dealing melee damage, you will likely complete that Task coincidentally within 20 minutes.
I have all the Harvesting Tool I need at the moment, so I will Craft the quickest and easiest Tool and destroy it. If I were in an MMORPG, I could Sell or Trade the Tool.
I might choose to gift that cheap Tool to newbies at the Portals.
I might even decide to make a valuable Tool to place in my Personal Shop or Player Stall or Auction House. Same for the BP Task: Craft Any Weapon 0/5
I might choose to ignore the E-11 Daily.
I have over 25 E-11 Blasters at 30% Durability sitting in my Storage, from killing Storm Troopers. I don't need another E-11 Blaster.
If I have the Resources in Storage or I can quickly gather the Resources I lack, I'll Craft an E-11 Blaster.
I might choose to go hunting for the Resources I lack - which, in an MMORPG would place me in the vicinity of other players - with whom I would likely interact. There might be a bunch of heading to the same location because we're pursuing the same Daily - and we might choose to PvP over the same Resources, if those Resources are scarce, or we might choose to Socialize.
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My current Survival World Weekly is:
Defeat AWR Trooper 0/3
I've been saving that one for a couple of weeks because those are Bosses at the end of a Dungeon and I haven't yet taken the time to Craft the Epic Health items that will make that fight easier to Solo.
But, if I were playing an MMORPG, I would run that now with at least one other player.
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My current Sandbox World Dailies are:
Add Creatures To Your Inventory 0/3
Complete A Build in A Grasslands Biome 0/1
Place Balloons 0/12
I will finish all of those Dailies in 3 minutes.
And, yes, I would do those first without interacting with anyone.
But, I would then go do the other Dailies and Weeklies that, in an MMORPG, would likely have me interacting with other players.
In an MMORPG, if I hadn't finished the new Seasonal content, I would play at least 4 more hours in order to experience the new content.
If I had completed the new Seasonal content, I still might continue to play for a few hours after completing the Dailies in order to prep for future ones.
Like, I might spend a couple hours Gathering the Resources necessary for Crafting Weapons and Tools, so I can quickly complete those Tasks the next time they pop up as Dailies.
In Ashes, that would mean my character is in the game world available for Risk v Reward gameplay with other players. Which is a benefit Steven should want.
____________________________________________________________
Also, sometimes Battlepass Tasks can entice players to interact with others in ways they might typically avoid.
In APOC, I would typically play the Battlepass by hiding as long as possible.
If there was a Task to Deal 500 Damage With X Weapon (Mace), I would use a few sessions to go bang on other players with a Mace.
Even though I don't particularly enjoy playing Battle Royales, if it seems like it's quicker and easier to gain more XP on the main BP by doing BR Tasks in addition to LEGO Tasks, I'll jump into the BR. Which means some other player is going to kill me.
And, despite being a Carebear, sometimes I will hunt and kill other players.
Steven like to say that Ashes is a PvX game, so any BP that Ashes has is going to include numerous PvP Tasks. And even Tasks for completing Dungeons and Raids or exploring the Open Seas will include Risk v Reward - where Risk = PvP.
Typically BPs also include simple Tasks, like using Emotes 0/5.
And there's nothing tedious about coordinating with people to use Emotes.
You can complete that while you're waiting for the entire group to arrive.
You can complete that in a Tavern or at a Player Shop or during a Guild meeting.
You can't just claim that it'll be a net benefit on the player count because there's some benefit in carrot-on-a-stick entertainment for some players, and ignore the repercussions on the community connection.
I can claim that it will be a net benefit because it's true.
You can't ascertain whether or not that's true if you haven't played modern Battlepasses.
I haven't ignored the repercussions on the community connection.
You simply don't understand how BPs work and have decided they must have major negative repercussions - so you try to fabricate in your own mind what the negative might be - because, to you, all BPs must suck some kind of way.
You just have to figure out how the BP sucks - but they all have to suck... even if you don't know how yet.
Comments
I assume you haven't realized that the next phase of battlepass "features" will be randomizing which cosmetics you get.
I highly doubt the next phase is moving back to lootboxes, as people are moving away from lootboxes for BP.
Even if a game does go back towards lootboxes than people would have a more legitimist argument against anything gambling related In terms of spending money. Again no one here is arguing for lootboxes.
Most people won't believe you when you say that here, you might trigger them XD
Battlepass is literally the replacement for loot boxes. The next step is to randomize the reward, and since that "effort" is there, Epic feel they can get around gambling laws via a loophole.
Doesn't really matter no one is arguing for loot boxes here, BP with random items is a loot box.
This is also not new those kinds of loot boxes already exist, for many many years.
Cool - so you'll be arguing against battlepass before long.
What you seem to not grasp is that there is no reason to add a battlepass to any game other than as a work around to not being able to have loot boxes any more.
Like, that is its only function. Epic are playing the long game with Fortnite (they always do), and other smaller developers are just copying because they want to check that box.
Reality is though, there is no reason to add a battlepass, it is not the best way to add content to a game unless the idea is to eventually get players addicted - just as was the case with loot boxes.
If a developer wants to add content to a game, they can just add it. If it is not a free addition to a game, a DLC in which the content is defined, or a cash shop purchase in which the purchase is defined, then the developer has deception as a prime motivation and us players should not stand for it.
You are just doing a derail post.
So, when I said "there is no reason to add a battlepass, it is not the best way to add content to a game unless the idea is to eventually get players addicted", rather than attempting to continue to defend battlepass, you are instead going to say I am trying to derail the thread, despite the fact that your previous three posts in reply to me were in relation to loot boxes?
Do you not know that people can see right through you?
EIther way, feel free to argue the point that I have made above about battlepass, if you think you can.
I'd much rather spend $11 per month to get 10 Skins I want, plus a bunch of other BR items, plus the BP Tasks - than to spend $50 a month on Loot Boxes and maybe, if I'm lucky, get one item I like.
The Fortnite Item Shop is much closer to Loot Boxes than the Fortnite BP - and even that is not as bad as Loot Boxes.
There's no reason for them not to.
BPs do not get players addicted to anything. Hunting BiS gear via Dungeons and Raids is way more addicting for people who do that than playing BPs.
Well, I think what you mean is that devs could add Seasonal content seasonally without a BP.
But, if they want people seeking Cosmetics to play for 100 hours rather than 20-30 hours or even 20-40 hours, they will add something like a Battlepass in order to entice the Casual Challenge players who are not interested in hunting BiS gear (which is 75% of the player population) to have fun complete Casual Challenge BP Tasks.
deraaaiiilllll
I like the game, but I don't wanna play it every day. i play mobas on and off casually ;-; but then I'm like cant miss the bp ugh
If developers want to add content to a game, they can just add it. Yes, but developers don't care if you are running meanial tasks like that.
The only reason they would care is if they want to be able to point to you running those tasks in the future and say "look, not gambling!".
That is the point of those tasks.
The EU ruled that loot boxes were gambling largely because there was no gameplay involved, just an exchange of money (which was the difference between an RNG mob drop or an RNG loot crate). Add meanial tasks to a loot box, and you have "not gambling" - or at least that is what Epic are thinking.
And that is why they have them. They don't have them because they are great content, or a great system how they are right now. How they are right now is a precursor to how they are intended to be, how they were always intended to be. How they are now is a state to get people thinking this kind of content is in some way "normal".
If Epic wanted to give players 100 hours of tasks to do in order to get a cosmetic, and had no other motivation at all behind it, they would have used the games achievement system - potentially even adding in temporary achievements in order to add in the time limit.
The fact that they have added it as a battlepass, and added a paid for battlepass really should stand out to everyone with a giant fuck-off arrow pointing to a neon green sign saying "we're going to fuck you all over with this", because that is what it is.
Again, companies are not your friend. They are not doing things to be nice. They are not creating value to benfit you.
They are making cosmetics as cheaply as they can, and then pushing them to players in the way that they think will make them the most money.
RIght, so, I'm asking you to defend your position, and you are claiming I am derailing.
How very phallic of you.
There were about 20 different cases being tried over the last 3 years. What you are talking about is the result of (I believe) three of them - and was against Valve, not Epic.
Keep in mind, Epic have settled cases with the FTC, the EU, The Government of British Columbia and a number of other authorities in just the last 12 months in relation to loot boxes. I don't expect anyone (myself included) to keep up with them all.
However, there have also been rulings in regards to loot boxes against Sony and EA in the last few years, and I believe it was one of the cases against them that the comment about no time investment was made.
It may have been in Austria, but I can't remember and am not going to look it up just now - though I do know Sony/EA did have a case in Austria.
You are derailing so hard 0 reason for me to even entertain it.
They can't just immediately add new content when the old content runs out.
And they are going to want to find ways to keep players playing once they've run out of new content.
Which is what BPs help with.
That's ridiculous.
They primarily care that players are playing as frequently as the devs can entice players to play.
Gambling is irrelevant.
The point of BP Tasks is to retain Casual Challenge players who are not interested in hunting BiS gear at Endgame.
That might be the dumbest thing you've ever written.
BPs are nothing like a Loot Box. There is no RNG to BP rewards. And, the paid path of a BP is a one time fee that is cheaper than a sub and also typically the same price or cheaper as the cheapest items in an Item Shop.
I dunno what your measure of "great content" is.
But, nope, your assertion is absurd.
Rewards on a Battlepass are on par with rewards in an Item Shop. But the cheapest items in an Item Shop are typically around $10 and can go up to $50 or more. And a paid Battlepass path is typically $10 for 10 items that are on par with what's available in the Item Shop. Plus, at least 5 items or more on the BP path.
So the BP provides the players with items that are on par with items in the Shop at a much cheaper price - and the Battlepass Tasks reward players for playing the game in a variety of ways - even encouraging players to try out activities and game modes they might typically completely ignore (which is another reason that devs care about players playing their content and not just about how much money they can grab from the players).
Again - this is sooo dumb - and comes from you making shit up in your own head because you don't know how BPs actually work.
You don't play 100 hours just to get one Cosmetic. You play 100 hours to get 14 Cosmetics, plus a bunch of other stuff, plus a bunch of Embers/VBucks/Traders Tender you can also spend on more Cosmetics in the Shop or to cover the cost of the next BP. All for the price of one the cheapest items in the Item Shop.
With Fortnite, I'm primarily paying for the free Character Skin that comes at the start of every month for being a member of the Fortnite Crew - and the fee for that premium Character Skin (which includes the main BP) is going to be cheaper than the cheapest Character Skins in the Item Shop.
I mean... it's more apt to say that the BP is added/updated at the same time new Seasonal DLCs are added.
You still have not explained what you think the the fuck over part is. Other than "Clearly, the Sun orbits the Earth and the Moon is made of green cheese!"
Publishers are not gamers' friends.
Devs will want players and gamers to have fun playing their game for as long as possible - and they will try to entice players to engage in all of the activities their game has to offer.
Nope. Your assertion is false on several levels.
BP Cosmetics are on par with what's already in the Item Shop/Cosmetics Store.
In fact, the "cheaply made" LEGO Character Skins have much less detail than the premium Character Skins in the Item Shop. The cheaply made Skins are around 1.5K vBucks. Premium Skins are around 2K vBucks. The Skins associated with the BP are all premium Skins - very high detail. Which is the primary reason I pay $10 for The Fornite Crew perks. Because the price of the first Premium Skin that I immediately acquire on the 1st of each month is already cheaper than 1.5K vBucks. And then I'm going to end the Battlepass with 14 other Character Skins + 1K vBucks + a bunch of other items.
In the Ashes Store, the Remnant Sympathizer costume set costs $25. The Collector’s Touch Glove costs $5.
I would prefer to spend $10 and do 100 hours of BP Tasks to get a full set on par with that. Which is what BPs offer (+ Embers + a bunch of other stuff).
In Fortnite, specifically, the Item Shop is where the vast majority of the money is spent. Especially because that's where all the fomo. Even more so because some of the items appear for 2-3 days and then might not be available again in the store for 2-3 years. And there's no way to anticipate when they will reappear in the Item Shop.
They can't just immediately add new content when the old content runs out.
Why?
Why can't they just add new content as they wish?
Apparently it can only be done via Battlepasses.
Same reason why we have not seen Dünir in the game world in the 3 year interim between Alpha 1 and Alpha 2.
Same reason why we have not seen Niküa and Tulnar in the Ashes game world yet.
Because it takes a lot of time to create new content.
Especially to write unique dialogue for Quests. And to create gear with balanced stat blocks for each Quest.
And to create new locations and to create new mobs associated with those Quests. And to test all of that.
Which is why devs designed the hunt for BiS gear via repeating Dungeons and Raids ad nauseum, with plenty of RNG - to try to keep gamers playing 12-18 months while they wait for the next Expansion.
Again... yes, the devs could just implement Seasonal DLCs without a Battlepass. But players would complete that in 20-30 hours or 40-60 hours and then stop playing while they wait for the next drop of new content.
A Battlepass gives players more stuff to do - similar to Achievements - that keep players repeating content after they have completely experienced all the new content one or two times. It typically takes about 80-100 hours to reach the end of a BP.
The devs would prefer if they could add new content every month or even every week. They can't.
They would also prefer if gamers didn't race through Expansions in 100 hours and then quit playing.
And they would also prefer that players play Seasonal DLCs for 100 hours rather than for 20-30 hours.
Instead of masses of players quitting once they hit Endgame.
This is untrue.
It takes a long time to build the game. Once the game is built, assuming you also have good tools, making content is fairly easy in comparison.
If a game like WoW was putting its revenue back in to the game, they would have been able to release an expansion every 3-4 months - they would have had 4 or 5 teams working on expansions at the same time in order to avoid rushed work. This is similar to how SoE operated, just not with thet many teams, and is why both EQ and EQ2 with significantly smaller populations than WoW were each able to release a similar sized expansion every year (well, along with prioritizing what was important and ignoring what isnt).
No, they only care how much money they make.
Publicly listed companies are legally obliged to make as much money for their investors as they can. Shareholders have taken companies to court to prevent them paying hard working staff a bonus - and they have always won. That is the level to which they don't care about anything other than profit for shareholders.
Again, if a publicly listed company does something, it is to make them as much money as possible. By actual law (in America, at least).
So, pray tell... why does it always take at least 12 months for a new Expansion?
I mean... I've been a game dev for 10 years, so... I do actually know how dev schedules and production cycles work. And how game devs think.
But, yes, I am more likely to spend $120 per year playing a Battlepass than I am to spend $120 per year in a Cosmetics store - especially if there is a BP and a Cosmetics Store.
That's true for APOC, NW and WoW.
(The exception being LEGO Fortnite because I love their Character Skins - but... from 1990 - 2012, I typically spent $120 per month on comic books.)
You can't just claim that it'll be a net benefit on the player count because there's some benefit in carrot-on-a-stick entertainment for some players, and ignore the repercussions on the community connection.
Hopefully Sir Steven will announce the exact Date somewhere around when Quarter Three starts.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
Just want to make sure I understand your point here.
Are you saying they can't set goals and create content on 60-90 day basis. Then install said content into the game.
but
If they have a BP then they can create and release content every 60-90 days.
You said several pages ago in Fortnite you get your tasks. Jump into a game mode then back out of the game mode as it starts, without playing the game at all. Just to check the box of I did a thing.
How is this keeping people engaged in the game? This seems like it is just a metrics thing: Look how many players we have.
While disregarding the fact they aren't playing the game at all just logging into a game mode and back out without interacting with the other players. This kind of behavior seems counter intuitive to the social aspect of what an MMO is supposed to be.
It doesn't.
There was 9 months between EQ2's DoF and KoS expansions, at which point they slotted all expansions to be released in November or December - and the reason it is 12 months between expansions is because they aim to release in that window. They have deemed that the most profitable time for them to release expansions (they are also a company).
If this were true, you wouldn't have conflated building a game from scratch with adding content to an existing game - unless you said that knowing it was a lie.
So, either you were lying when you said thst initial statement, or are lying in saying you have been a game developer for 10 years.
A QA tester I would believe (begrudgingly), but not a developer.
Battlepass Tasks inherently require players to interact with the gameworld - that is the entire point of them.
Battlepasses do not inherently require people to interact with other players any more than Quests or Achievements or Bulletin Board Tasks do, but completing Dungeons and Raids are also categories of Battlepass Tasks, so people who like to interact with others via Dungeons and Raids can focus on those Tasks.
_____________________________________________________
In LEGO Fortnite, my current Survival World Dailies are:
Deal Melee Damage 0/50
Craft E-11 Blaster Rifle 0/1
Craft Harvesting Tools 0/1
It's is not tedious or difficult to interact with other players while dealing melee damage. Indeed, it's quite likely that people will be in the vicinity of other players while dealing melee damage. That Task certainly does not prevent anyone from coordinating with others to complete the Task if that's what they want to do.
But, also... you don't even have to look at that BP Task to complete it. If you spend your game session dealing melee damage, you will likely complete that Task coincidentally within 20 minutes.
I have all the Harvesting Tool I need at the moment, so I will Craft the quickest and easiest Tool and destroy it. If I were in an MMORPG, I could Sell or Trade the Tool.
I might choose to gift that cheap Tool to newbies at the Portals.
I might even decide to make a valuable Tool to place in my Personal Shop or Player Stall or Auction House. Same for the BP Task: Craft Any Weapon 0/5
I might choose to ignore the E-11 Daily.
I have over 25 E-11 Blasters at 30% Durability sitting in my Storage, from killing Storm Troopers. I don't need another E-11 Blaster.
If I have the Resources in Storage or I can quickly gather the Resources I lack, I'll Craft an E-11 Blaster.
I might choose to go hunting for the Resources I lack - which, in an MMORPG would place me in the vicinity of other players - with whom I would likely interact. There might be a bunch of heading to the same location because we're pursuing the same Daily - and we might choose to PvP over the same Resources, if those Resources are scarce, or we might choose to Socialize.
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My current Survival World Weekly is:
Defeat AWR Trooper 0/3
I've been saving that one for a couple of weeks because those are Bosses at the end of a Dungeon and I haven't yet taken the time to Craft the Epic Health items that will make that fight easier to Solo.
But, if I were playing an MMORPG, I would run that now with at least one other player.
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My current Sandbox World Dailies are:
Add Creatures To Your Inventory 0/3
Complete A Build in A Grasslands Biome 0/1
Place Balloons 0/12
I will finish all of those Dailies in 3 minutes.
And, yes, I would do those first without interacting with anyone.
But, I would then go do the other Dailies and Weeklies that, in an MMORPG, would likely have me interacting with other players.
In an MMORPG, if I hadn't finished the new Seasonal content, I would play at least 4 more hours in order to experience the new content.
If I had completed the new Seasonal content, I still might continue to play for a few hours after completing the Dailies in order to prep for future ones.
Like, I might spend a couple hours Gathering the Resources necessary for Crafting Weapons and Tools, so I can quickly complete those Tasks the next time they pop up as Dailies.
In Ashes, that would mean my character is in the game world available for Risk v Reward gameplay with other players. Which is a benefit Steven should want.
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Also, sometimes Battlepass Tasks can entice players to interact with others in ways they might typically avoid.
In APOC, I would typically play the Battlepass by hiding as long as possible.
If there was a Task to Deal 500 Damage With X Weapon (Mace), I would use a few sessions to go bang on other players with a Mace.
Even though I don't particularly enjoy playing Battle Royales, if it seems like it's quicker and easier to gain more XP on the main BP by doing BR Tasks in addition to LEGO Tasks, I'll jump into the BR. Which means some other player is going to kill me.
And, despite being a Carebear, sometimes I will hunt and kill other players.
Steven like to say that Ashes is a PvX game, so any BP that Ashes has is going to include numerous PvP Tasks. And even Tasks for completing Dungeons and Raids or exploring the Open Seas will include Risk v Reward - where Risk = PvP.
Typically BPs also include simple Tasks, like using Emotes 0/5.
And there's nothing tedious about coordinating with people to use Emotes.
You can complete that while you're waiting for the entire group to arrive.
You can complete that in a Tavern or at a Player Shop or during a Guild meeting.
I can claim that it will be a net benefit because it's true.
You can't ascertain whether or not that's true if you haven't played modern Battlepasses.
I haven't ignored the repercussions on the community connection.
You simply don't understand how BPs work and have decided they must have major negative repercussions - so you try to fabricate in your own mind what the negative might be - because, to you, all BPs must suck some kind of way.
You just have to figure out how the BP sucks - but they all have to suck... even if you don't know how yet.