Where is the progress
Chicago
Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
As much as I appreciate the monthly live streams, would it be possible for once to do a Livestream about content we have not seen or heard about? I enjoyed the world boss but let's be honest here it's a complete copy and paste with maybe some different colours added of the world boss previewed 3 years ago, in a worse looking area,
Why has basically everything including an entire zone been scrapped since A1?
How many parses are we going to have to see in the cleric?
Where is the action combat? Show us the naval system?, nodes above level 3, bounty hunting? Secondary archetypes? Something.. maybe I need to take a break in following this game because the more live streams I watch it just feels like we are getting taken for a ride, show us the builds that you previewed 3 years ago for the weathering and commissions showcase, tell us why the world looks so dull and the colours have been drastically changed everytime we see real gameplay,
I respect and am greatful that you want and ask for the communities opinion on elements of the game, but at some stage with 60+ game developers, decisions need to be made and stuck to, surely someone in the company can put in some insight, the game feels like it's been restarted from scratch 4x over now and it would be nice to know why. Again maybe I just need to take a break from following this game but come on, 3 years from alpha 1 when will we start seeing real progress, not live streams designed simply for a 30 minute presentation and then never touched apon again, would be nice to see literally ANY other biome, the character creator that was promised a month ago or literally anything, now I'm just ranting
Why has basically everything including an entire zone been scrapped since A1?
How many parses are we going to have to see in the cleric?
Where is the action combat? Show us the naval system?, nodes above level 3, bounty hunting? Secondary archetypes? Something.. maybe I need to take a break in following this game because the more live streams I watch it just feels like we are getting taken for a ride, show us the builds that you previewed 3 years ago for the weathering and commissions showcase, tell us why the world looks so dull and the colours have been drastically changed everytime we see real gameplay,
I respect and am greatful that you want and ask for the communities opinion on elements of the game, but at some stage with 60+ game developers, decisions need to be made and stuck to, surely someone in the company can put in some insight, the game feels like it's been restarted from scratch 4x over now and it would be nice to know why. Again maybe I just need to take a break from following this game but come on, 3 years from alpha 1 when will we start seeing real progress, not live streams designed simply for a 30 minute presentation and then never touched apon again, would be nice to see literally ANY other biome, the character creator that was promised a month ago or literally anything, now I'm just ranting
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Pls stop.
Ah my posts are not really directed at you, but I knew you would be here
Can't hurt to ask, right?
It is, indeed, Monday morning in Kyoto.
Obviously we have different opinions on the development of this game, let's keep it civil
We don't though.
I know it's probably not very clear, but I support your position on this matter entirely, just not your approach.
I too, would like 'Classic' Ashes of Creation and literally every day I wonder nostalgically what happened to it.
I just think this thread is really, really unlikely to help in any way.
You may be right, it most likely won't help, I have noticed over the years that any questions even remotely answered in the live streams or AMA's are hand picked to give literally no information, it's like listening to politicians, and tbh I'm dead up with the lies we keep getting that anyone with half a brain can see from a mile away, quite honestly I would not even care if this project wasn't community funded, but the disrespect the community got with the alpha packages not to mention everything else team has promised but never delivered on I am quite fed up, and if they are going to use the game as a glorified cash shop but then use that money to fund another game entirely (apoc) and then use that money to fund ashes version 1 scrapped after A1, the least we can expect is honesty and real progress updates on the monthly Livestream.
What we receive is lies, fake builds of the game that look nothing like the game on the builds we see them playing on, recycled content from 3 years ago, like they couldn't have even added 1 or 2 new mechanics to the raid boss? Just a re colour and a different area, it's frustrating, and literally worse than star citizen. And honestly just feels like Steven is using his background in sales to capitalise on fomo and people's emotions
I've said it before ill say it again you make some toxic threads.
if you're such an expert how about instead of calling people sad you enlighten them
100% agree, if they release literally anything that contradicts what I have said I'll be the first to apologise and admit I'm wrong and shout this till the cows come home, but as of right now everything I have said is facts, yes I don't know everything about game development, but it doesn't take an Einstein to see what is happening here
By the way I don't think this game is a scam, I believe Steven set off with great intentions and as a person I find him quite charming, but I also believe somewhere between A1 and now something has happened and I believe we have the right to ask why, by the way whoever asks these questions gets flamed I'm use to it and expect it but if you want. A good MMO as everyone claims, someone needs to start asking these tough questions 8 years in
Development.
I heard that for Example in the Past - > there were like a 100 Nodes or more planned. But then Sir Steven and/or his mighty Crew decided to shrink it down to like 85 Nodes at Maximum,
so that Players don't right away run into another Node after Two or Three Minutes after leaving their own Node's City Gates.
Plus might be just me -> but i like the "new"/current Worldmap of Verra far more than the One from before.
"Plus",
you must take into Consideration that everything before and even after the "World Remake" of the World of Verra, is just a Placeholder for the later things in the same Places - which are all supposed to work.
And one more Reason above all - > it seems all those Years until the likes of May 2024 or maybe even now,
there was a new Engine/Possibility/Server-Tech being developed - > so that Hundreds* of People shall be able to run around in like the same Node, Place, whatever You call it,
without the Game turning into a horrible Lag-of-Death Frame-Festival and/or without countless People getting disconnected, because the known/older MMO-Engines are just not cutting it with certain, high Player Numbers.
Jepp. The Progress apparently takes it's sweet, sweet time. While i can fully understand how annoying this is, i also would like to get a bit more Information to keep People up to Date.
But Funfact :
i think we will all be far more up to date from the likes of November 7th or 8th and so on.
Damn. I want to see a Node-Siege Presentation sooooooooooooooo bad.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
I've already done this before lol? People who want to call something a scam have already convinced themselves, im not going to debate multiple threads with them on this.
My question is why are you trying to defend his take on calling this a scam based on what he is saying?
Great points here and thank you for taking the time to reply, I do disagree with a few of them for example, intrepid did not create the engine and now that we are on UE5 things should be relatively easier to get going ( I will admit I don't have much knowledge on this ) also I don't agree that after 5 years everything should be placeholder, I do agree with the meshing tech, it does sound promising but other than reducing costs on servers I don't know how it actually benefits game progression as there are other systems like this already around, intrepid were definitely not the first, but I do think they did a fantastic job on it. Hopefully when A2 launches some of our fears will be put to rest
No idea. Certainly does seem like alot of pre A1 stuff was scrapped but there was an engine change. Did that have something to do with it? No idea.
But I think it's disingenuous to say there's been no progress. I would say that animations and skills have progressed massively in that time, and quest lines (even if they are placeholder)
Ui looks alot better and the world seems to run alot smoother than back then.
Environmental things like insects flying around and the night sky box have definitely improved the ambience and the alpha 2 has more details in the biomes than alpha 1.
We've also seen the caravan system actually moving and events tied to it.
I'm probably missing a dozen things. Yeah, I understand progress feeling slow, but I certainly wouldn't say that there hasn't been any.
I mean you saying I'm calling the game a scam is about the same as the misinformation spreading you apparently dispise, I don't think it's a scam, never have, I just think that we are being catfished with alot of systems or given rose glasses and I would really like to see behind the curtain
You are right these are great improvements, it's just hard to even tell when A1 was pretty much just place holder and we are now getting updates with 3 year old content, the night and day cycles do look great though
You are literally trying to say the money they are using isn't going towards AoC and saying they are lying about the game, and not showing any progression in monthly live streams?
What are you even talking about, you are pretty much trying to suggest the game is scamming people?
The money they raised in the Kickstarter most likely went souly towards apoc, which is not AoC, then the first few years of bundles seem to have gone towards something that was just scrapped, now it seems they need more money so they are selling alpha 2 packs for a 120$ price tag, after making people fomo into a 250$ pack because they were ending package sales that I can guarantee would have waited, a 120$ price tag is also to high it makes it near impossible for a huge majority of the community to participate in testing and I dispise this.
Also the monthly streams I may be wrong you are right but from what I have seen, the game with live showcases looks not even remotely close to the game in pre recorded show cases, I'm not saying it's a scam but they ARE selling these packs based on that being how the game looks, nothing I'm saying is madeup
You are literally spreading misinformation.......
Tell me what is misinformation here
You are trying to suggest the money from Kickstarter all went towards Apoc....This has to be a troll...You don't know where they are spending their money or even how much things cost to make lol?
Of course some money /development goes into making any game an Apoc would take some element of that. That doesn't mean all their money from their Kickstarter went into Apoc, nor would you know. THe theory is silly because you can make the argument the assets they used in apoc were assets they took from AoC as they were prototyping
So in the end you are making a toxic post based on your assumptions while not knowing how things work to try to paint the company badly. Because you haven't seen enough to make yourself happy of the game that they are in the middle of developing.
Thanks for replying, I challenge you to think of it in another light and as a person I don't have a problem with you so don't take anything I say as so, however the constant stabs on my posts are getting old but I'll try to reply so you can see it from my point of view
Yes you are right I don't know where their funds go, this is not public information but speculating is not spreading miss information, I think that if an entire game was developed after the Kickstarter that wasn't AoC ( and also scrapped I might add ) we can take a pretty good guess that Kickstarter funding went into that game. If they made apoc to test assets why would this not be told in the live streams? I mean that's essentially what they are right development updates but I guess it's all the things for one way or another they decide we should not get to know,
Alot of my post are not based on assumptions, it is a fact that intrepid are using fomo tactics to make people buy their bundle packs
It is a fact that alot of people bought 250$ packs with the assumption that A2 access was coming to an end
It is a fact that the visuals of the game vary heavily between pre recorded and live gameplay
It is a fact that bringing back A2 access with 3 different price bundles and an expiry date is just a marketing strategy to persuade people to just buy the 120$ pack with a huge incentive from fomo
It is a fact that we have seen maybe 3% of any of the core systems that this game hopes to accomplish
I would like to also point out that I don't think I trepid is a bad company, I also don't think their am indy company anymore or even close to it so for us to keep calling them that is not a good comparison, they have some of the best devs on the planet working for them but for whatever reason no one internally seems to be able to make any solid in stone decisions
As people I think the entire team are great, especially the GMs for example vaknar spends alot of time responding and communicating with the community,
I think alot of the points I have brought up are things that alot of people would love some answers to in some of the live streams, not another pass on the cleric or a recycled world boss with identical mechanics from alpha 1
Anyway no hard feelings but these are just my opinions and if you don't like them that is fine
Truth.
Yep, but no one wants to have this conversation
You can't say you are just speculating when you are trying to use this information in a negative light and then you are trying to say you are only saying facts on top of it....
A fact would be the were showing gameplay on AoC before Apoc, and there would be a time period where they are developing content for AoC during that time period.
There for you now need to speculate the amount of time they are putting in a battle royal and into the actual mmorpg.So instantly you cna't even make a argument all kickstarter funds went into Apoc alone since factually you have nothing to point to that saying that is even the case since that isn't really possible.
The other fact is they need to higher people, get equipment, office space, software(which is expensive as you are talking about a lot of different programs out there and needing licensing for per son that needs to be using it)) etc. This money is directly supporting AoC so again you can't make a argument all their kickstarter funding just went into Apoc.
Unsure where you heard they made apoc to test assets that sounds very weird, unless i had some typo earlier or something.
Point being there is a mmorpg first so if anything it makes more sense they picked asset pieces from their mmorpg prototype and used it to make Apoc since making a battle royal is pretty easy. Rather then you trying to suggest the funding went into Apoc meaning that came first as their focus.
That being said it doesn't mean there was no effort put into it, and new things not being made in some element for it. Its just extremely silly to try to say they are lying, using fake engines, or using all their kickstarter funding into Apoc without any actual proof. when if you look at the development you can easily make counter arguments for it.
This is a pattern of trying to use extreme takes, which gets into being disingenuous. A more fair take would be if you felt what they gained out of making apoc was a waste of their development time, and any testing information they gathered from the data doesn't help them. (which i wouldn't agree with but atleast you aren't making an extreme take and that is simply your opinion.
I really don't care if you think IS are using fomo to sell things, its a business at the end of the day. You can have your opinion on it and support them or be against it. That has nothing to do with progress of the game...And this game isn't going to grow on a tree and to be honest it half is growing on a tree out of Stevens Wallet.
Not really going to argue that its only 3 percent of their systems, as I'm guessing you mean they only have a total of 3% done out of everything else they need to do. You are fine to have your opinion on that, I believe that would be more fair to have.
I expect development to be slower until a company is in full production. Which i believe Is is now at full production meaning content is going to be made a lot faster. They have like almost 200 employees so i feel they would be going into full production recently (between the last year and now). And you will see plenty of new things over the time frame.
I'm make a good guess there is a lot of art that is not seen as it need functionality or the art is not complete or not in a state they want to show. On top of needing to build up for milestones and releasing content during their phases of A2. Which they will be even more strict of showing things because people can not handle development and they want to make sure things are pretty polished.
Do to them trying to polish everything for showcasing that is where you can make a argument they are slowing down things on development. So people can see the game, and then start to complain about that they aren't doing it fast enough or it still doesn't look good enough for them base don what consumers think lol.
Pretty much and this would be me speculating on the whole situation. They thought is be cool to show the progress of the game they are putting their heart into and a good way to market it at the same time. So they wanted to be transparent in showing things and talking about it and being really chill. And then realized all the work to put into that will be appreciated by some, but most people will actually not care or complain things are bad. The process didn't matter as cool of an idea it might be, general consumers won't care or appreciate it. They only care about the final result else its bad to them.
On the star citizen point i Don't fully follow that project but i see and hear things time to time. That game has had like 600m dollars put into it, and been in development since like 2011. And if you compare star citizen to this game i feel like AoC actually has a game. And in star citizen they are spending their money on feature creep and complicated things that are pointless to a game (To the point i had a friend showing me the game and struggling to find out how to drink water in the game do to it being a mess). So to me that would be more a stab on IS, imo of course.
This is a fairly bad take.
First, Apoc had very little money spent on it - that was very obvious. It was never designed to be a *product*, it was designed in a way where it maybe could have been turned in to one.
Even your timelines don't match up. WIth what you are saying here, Intrepid would have scrapped a large portion of the game, and then a few months later decided to stop selling monthly cosmetics - almost definately theyr biggest earner.
That just doesn't track - not that I expect logic to sway your ramblings.
As to you wanting to see various things - no.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if tier 6 (and maybe even tier 5) nodes aren't even finished when the game goes live. Most MMORPG's don't have content complete if they know or assume it will take players months to get to it. Even then though, they need to get nodes at level 3 working how they want them before putting too much effort in to higher tier nodes - because any changes to level 3 nodes will add exponential additional work if there is something in tier 4 nodes that relied on how things were at tier 3. As such, I wouldn't expect tier 4 nodes at this stage to be anything other than some building designs.
Naval content is a little different. I don't see why they would have started that yet - it isn't as if they can be working on every aspect if the game all at once.
Keep in mind, 60 developers is half as many as a game like GW2 had AFTER launch (at one point they had 70 developers working on an expansion, and 30 working on maintaining the core game). Trying to build an MMO with that many developers is kind of crazy, expect things to go slow.
You have some good points here and I do agree with quite a few of them, however I don't think that all of their funds went into apoc, I do think a majority but yes you are right I don't have and never will have any concrete data on this, some points I do disagree on is transparency, this is not a personal stab against Steven because I would guess it being a big part of his life and is automated for him but I would argue a big part of the live streams have nothing to do with transparency and everything to do with sales.
The reason I think this is because we don't ever get told anything about the actual development,
I think showing a showcase that doesn't look like the visuals of the actual game * whilst * actively selling and promoting at the same is not transparent. Furthermore, Whilst I agree and appreciate that Steven has put alot of his own money into the project you need to remember that once complete Steven is going to make hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue, it's not out of the goodness of his heart and people need to stop using this as an excuse, either way, let's come back to this once A2 launches, one way or another one of us will eat our words and I hope that it is me and I'll be the first to admit it
Then why are you asking them to showcase things that are almost definately not a a state that they will look like when the game is live?
That said, the showcase isn't about the games visuals. It is about the gameplay.
I mean at this point it should be about both,
also I don't need to see these systems showcased but would love to hear literally anything about them, and I think a Livestream that went over those topics would be much more well received than recycled content we have already seen