Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
BH system is a fair point, i think there is a lot of ways you exploit it. If I'm a BH i don't want to kill them, i want my friends to kill them and letting them know where he is so he drops full gear
Seeking to limit the amount of "non-consensual" pvp via the corruption system is what I have seen as the teams goal. Not to prevent or deter it. Otherwise why are they even putting in mechanics that are directly dependent on corrupted players being a thing?
“ You're not going to see griefing in the game very often; and that's because of our flagging system. The Corruption mechanics are based around disincentivizing a griefer or PKer but still offering the opportunity, should the occasion arise, where the benefits outweigh the risk, you have the ability to do so. If you gain Corruption, which is killing a Non-Combatant - a player who is not fighting back, basically - if you gain that Corruption, your world has changed. It is not going to be a very beneficial place to be and you have the potential of losing your gear. Your combat efficacy decreases based on the amount of Corruption you accrue.”
—-Steven
I feel like honestly we are both sort of arguing semantics. I see it as a limiter. You see it as a deterrent... I am sitting here thinking to myself its sort of the same thing. Either argument is still exactly what Steven is saying. Corruption keeps ganking in check but it doesn't get rid of it entirely.
Some of you may have seen me express these thoughts recently in similar posts... My hope is that when Alpha Two releases, players who aren't familiar with or perhaps not overly enthusiastic about true open-world PvPvE / PvX will see firsthand how it works and perhaps better understand what makes it fun. While it certainly isn't for everyone, I think that some people will be surprised with how well it can work, though!
Perhaps some of you can share interesting or fun open-world PvP stories for those who are hesitant about the feature? ^_^
I, for one, have no such experiences to share that I would expect anyone hesitant to feel anything remotely positive about. No owPvP game has managed it for ME, and I say this as a player who will gladly both initiate and accept owPvP under nearly any circumstance. Even as the initiator, it is nearly never a satisfying experience in MMOs for me.
I think I can count the number of times I had a positive owPvP experience on two hands. At least it's not just one. But to be fair, I don't play many such games.
I will hope to be surprised. And I definitely will be surprised if it works.
Honestly it's difficult to share stories because there are so many, but I will try I guess. First I'd like to talk a little bit about the company I was part of.
My most recent open world PvP stories are from New World. I used to play in a company that participated in both PvP and PvE, but player driven conflict management was our main profile: making treaties with other guilds, protecting smaller communities, managing wars within our faction (syndicate), organizing people to defend/capture the fort in our main region, and actively hunting people in the open who bullied lower level players.
It was common practice by marauders on our server to level in small groups (3-5 people per group) and to actively look for fights in the quest areas, but one day some groups decided they are going to hunt people who are just idling outside the Everfall dungeon (can't recall what's it called). Since toggling PvP gave a boost to XP, many people turned it on, even if they played alone, which of course resulted in people getting smacked right outside the dungeon. After people alerted the faction chat of what's happening we immediately started organizing groups ourselves, while making sure to invite the solo randoms who wanted to join (we were in discord and the randoms pretty much just followed us around, it worked well).
As we arrived at the location we didn't find anyone, so we started running around, because we doubted they would just leave like this. After looking for a bit we found them lying in the grass, once one of them was spotted almost immediately 30+ marauders just appeared from the grass and bushes, and the whole thing turned into a massive fight. We traded back and fourth for some time, it was a very even fight, well played on both sides with organized groups.
However the covenant groups also realized what's going on, and they wanted to have control over the dungeon entrance, but we haven't realized this until it was too late and we got flanked by them. Luckily some of us managed to get out alive, then we regrouped back at town, once regrouped we ran right back to the location hoping people would still be there, and just as we arrived so did the other faction's groups. It was really funny how the three factions just stood in a triangle and looked at each other, waiting what happens next. More people joined our cause on syndicate side, so we ended up winning this conflict, and we had control over the dungeon area. They never contested the dungeon area, but they kept fighting for the fort, but we kept shutting them down. We never lost the region (until I was playing at least, as far as I know the server doesn't exist anymore).
These are the moments why I really like games that encourage people to participate in open world PvP. The social interactions make the game much more fun to me, and this feeling is what I'm looking for in Ashes too. I like engaging with people in the open world, and PvP is perfect for that. PvP is also very different from PvE in the sense of the content that's needed to keep the players busy. In PvE players depend a lot more on the team's development cycle than in PvP. So even though I enjoy PvE as well, I prefer the PvP gameplay loop a lot more.
I'm super excited about caravans, sieges, and contested open world bosses.
Curious what are you expecting out owpvp, What is it that you want?
Same as I said before. I want the average person in the game to desire for it to happen the same way they desire to fight mobs.
People who don't like fighting mobs either aren't who I'm talking about here. I want players to look at another player and go 'that looks like it may be about as much fun as fighting a good Elite mob' (bearing in mind that I come from games where basically all mobs have the potential to be interesting and challenging at-level). And then engage (or even check if the other person is willing to fight, if they wanna be super polite for some reason and aren't a Rogue) with the expectation that both sides will gain some knowledge or something from the fight.
I'm sure there's some older MMO that gives this experience that I haven't played, but I'd like a new one.
To have a mmo like what you want where people are more keen on fighting each other imo would be more similar to some battle royale games where you don't have fear of losing anything. When i played shadowbane Id hunt players or be hunted it was fun but was also a lot to deal with to lose your farm.
Bdo is closest to that mind set but that is because also how it is designed. Even on a more hardcore pvp servers that isn't something that is going to happen, i think what you are thinking of is a bit of an exaggeration and definitely not a PvX type game. There would never be honor or fair fights, power and numbers and a lot of running to not lose your year. On top of large guilds camping people so they can never leave.
PvX is the best way with limits it makes the experiences more memorable then just having everyone trying to murder each other 24/7
I wish you were capable of having conversations without projecting so much/making assumptions about what other people want or how.
I don't feel like trying to explain this to you though, maybe you're right and I don't want a PvX game and therefore won't like Ashes. That's a better simpler conclusion.
I don't care too much if I grief a mob. I don't care if a mob is not in the mood to fight.
I like to eat fish, but fish eyes are disgusting.
You can't make me enjoy eating fish eyes the way I enjoy eating fish.
You too? Sure, fine...
This isn't the point either, but if that's the perspective you're capable of, so be it, I'll hope for better from the Dev team.
When you say you want other players looking like mobs that means to fight them, to get loot, etc. Any player that sees a mob would attack, that isn't projecting that is normal in any kind of mmo. Im simply saying what would happen in a game like that. I also have experience with tons of old mmorpg and i know how full loot PvP is without limits.
I gave an example of the closest one which was Bdo and people in that game aren't that quick to attack everything in it. My only main assumption is you either want more hardcore pvp servers or pve players so they can make the PvX server more hardcore.
I ask and try to figure it out based on the information you give me, long story short there is no mmorpg out there that people play that are like that, or they were not successful enough to come to the light.
Again if you want a mmo where you look at players like mobs you are looking at more of s shooter type game its different in a PvX type game...
If I'm getting the wrong understanding just explain it to me better, that was the example you gave me.
Lots of times I don't want to fight. Lots of times I don't want to deal with the consequences of dying, but...
That's not really what I would call fear.
Fear is when I'm so immersed in the game, trying to stay alive, that I'm physically ducking and bobbing my body in real life as if it's going to help me maneuver y avatar in the game. That never happens in PvP.
Generally only happens in game when I'm running from something like a Dragon that cons skull.
In shadowbane it was full loot, so when you die you dropped everything except for equipped gear. So you could end up losing a hour or hours of farm as you are so far away from town at grinding spots and such. People had a very rare rune (i did as well) that allowed you to track anyone on the map to. So people might scout out your group and then come gank you to try to take all your farm and any rare items you have on you.
When im talking about fear its that if you aren't careful or paying attention you are going to get wiped fast in a gank, the longer you grind the higher the chance. I've shown up a plenty of spots or joined a group with a friend and left mid group to wipe them all and we stole a ton of gold.
Dev team is making a PvX game not a battel royale. Honestly extreme hardcore PvP and PvE and both take a back seat -insert meme- .
Ok I'm giving this one try, I'm not even gonna require you to 'not project', but I'm gonna stop if you go off on any weird TANGENTS.
Here's the problem with owPvP in almost every game and imo why it fails.
The attacker has mitigated their main risks before they begin. Can we agree on this? In 90% of situations, if the attacker was carrying a lot of good materials of their own, they don't want to attack a random.
So what do they do? They attack people they know they can beat. They attack with advantage. They attack with low risk. That's a skill, it's a valid skill and maybe that's what owPvP games are all about. I just also think that's why those games are niche or fail.
The player who has something to lose doesn't usually want to initiate the fight. Whether that's mats, the time it took to get wherever they are and don't want to respawn. The attacker is therefore 'a person with low risk, whose gain is the fight itself even if they lose', the defender is 'a person with high risk, something to lose, often less skill, and with little to gain if they win'.
I don't want to see this again. The main thing where this doesn't matter is Objective based PvP and farming spots, but even in the case of the farming spot, it's usually the same. Because the one who wants the spot and actually thinks to ATTACK for it, is probably still taking the lesser risk. It can be satisfying to be the defender and defeat that type of person, but 'PvE' players normally don't want to do this. They expect to lose without benefit.
This whole 'there will be winners and losers' thing is not, in my mind, an excuse for the loser gaining NOTHING. But because MMOs are no-matchmaking, usually poorly balanced games, the loser DOES usually gain NOTHING, not even 'an increase in personal skill or knowledge'.
Yes, there is probably no such MMO. I just don't know why that is. Why it is so important that owPvP rely on 'being so different from MOBAs and games where people can gain something, however small, from losses', that the response is 'no you don't want an MMO go play a MOBA'.
As I said, maybe I do. I will have a new MOBA to play soon enough. Perhaps I'll be happier there.
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/comment/340228#Comment_340228
I didn't like that one as much, because of some stratification that would occur. Sorry to brush you off, I'll probably poke at it more later, but I'd figure it would just cause another waterfall of 'This isn't a MOBA!' decriers, and they're right.
MMOs already know they need to do something. Some already are. What I'm hearing around here is 'Ashes won't, and shouldn't', and that's fine. Predecessor and TL are both this year. Or maybe everyone else will be the disappointed ones and I'll be the happy one, but I can't imagine 'discussing it on forums' leading to anything, if even Vaknar's responses have been 'maybe people will like it better once they try it!'
I know that Vaknar isn't really told much by the team about designs, but if they had even a hint of something revolutionary, I figure they'd tell Vaknar to at least hint at that, right?
It causes there to be a push and pull, that yes he won the fight but you aren't a winner till you are back in town and have placed the items in your storage. One thing i hope is spawn points and towns are decent locations away where you can store such items else I feel issues might come up if its two feet away.
Back to the Pve player, the corrupt system is designed so its not a frequent event that happens every second the moment you step out of town. The game is a PvX game at the end of the day so it should be balanced between PvP and Pve.
Also ive played dota for 20 years and I've never felt i gained something from losing, only that a hour of time my was spent losing lmao. In a battle royale i don't feel the lose as much because you are like i loss but i killed a bunch of people atleast. Your view point on it isn't losing its how close can you get tot hat number one spot.
I also bundled up that suggestion with another addition to the system, but that one will only become relevant after we see what Intrepid has designed on their own first.
Ok, I'll count that as a tangent. We're just different types of people.
I play games where I usually learn something from losing. I'm not going into matches thinking about how many people I kill, I'm thinking about 'did I get better at this game, can I see where I don't make X error anymore'.
That's just what I look for in games, if Ashes isn't going to provide that, so be it.
If you are a hardcore pvper and they have enough action combat in the game you will get that. But that isn't the average player mind set. For you though im sure it be fine and great and you can learn to be a better pvper losing or winning.
Part of the reason i advocate for action combat, skill should be able to influence mmos in this age we don't have the same limitations as 20 years ago.